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Old 16-06-2004, 15:38   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by observer
a few questions:
1. Does anybody know what is meant by "Back line" in the team strategy?
2. Can I set all the quick strategies to "A" or this will make my players loose stamina faster?
3. If I set Counter attack to "C", would I still be able to use Counter attack through team tactics in the main menu (by using say + : )?
4. What is the difference between Sweeper and Libro in the defense system, and would it still be that effective when I have 4 players in the back?

Appreciate your thoughts
Thanks
Here are your answers.
1. The back line setting is how far your defence will push up the field. On C they will stay deep, I would set a back 3 to C for safety. On A they will push up the field with the attack. Going sometimes further than the half way line depending on your other settings and how deep the opposition sits. Used properley with the offside trap, this can be deadly, but very risky if you are playing against pacey forwards.
2. You can set them all to A, yes, but your players will get tired much quicker.
3. Yes you can, but on C the team won't "naturally" counter attack, strikers will still come back for corners and stuff. Where on A they won't, they'll stay up whether you have it on + or not. Though in open play + will make your stikers push right up if your have it on C, it's different for set pieces.
4. A sweeper is a free defender who will pick up the best defensive position for the current situation. I didn't see the option for Libero in there mind? Have I missed something? I wouldn't have a sweeper in a back 4 because it could potentialy leave a huge gap, (seen it happen) the other defenders only cover their area and if the sweeper wanders off to cover someone.......... It is quite effective, but if you are playing top class opposition, they will exploit it.

Hope this helps.
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Old 17-06-2004, 08:51   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jMz
Here are your answers.
1. The back line setting is how far your defence will push up the field. On C they will stay deep, I would set a back 3 to C for safety. On A they will push up the field with the attack. Going sometimes further than the half way line depending on your other settings and how deep the opposition sits. Used properley with the offside trap, this can be deadly, but very risky if you are playing against pacey forwards.
2. You can set them all to A, yes, but your players will get tired much quicker.
3. Yes you can, but on C the team won't "naturally" counter attack, strikers will still come back for corners and stuff. Where on A they won't, they'll stay up whether you have it on + or not. Though in open play + will make your stikers push right up if your have it on C, it's different for set pieces.
4. A sweeper is a free defender who will pick up the best defensive position for the current situation. I didn't see the option for Libero in there mind? Have I missed something? I wouldn't have a sweeper in a back 4 because it could potentialy leave a huge gap, (seen it happen) the other defenders only cover their area and if the sweeper wanders off to cover someone.......... It is quite effective, but if you are playing top class opposition, they will exploit it.

Hope this helps.
Absolutely classic, man. And it sure helps.
1. Now I can clearly understand why I used to have some problems in the back. This is cause I have the back line set to "A", and my mate plays with 3 fast forwards (Henry, Pele and Ronaldo!!). I think setting the back line to "B" or "C" will hold them back. But, would they still go forward in Corners and free kicks?
2. Regarding the "Libro", I found it when I want to do "position edit" to some
of my players in the back. Mentioning this, I wonder what is meant by "SM" in the picture you are showing. I can't seem to find this position at all!!
3. I always set the "Defense/Attack level" to manual. I like to control how offensive I want to play through out the game. Do you recommend that?
4. Do you use any "man mark" in the defense. I read here that it is quite risky and easily shakes up the defense sometimes. I have my formation very similar to the one you displayed in the second picture (4 in the back) and I set the DMF defense to "covering" to with arrows exactly like you illustrated. I think it is effective. Do use "CV" in any other positions?
5. Last but not least, I find playing with 3 defenders and 1 DMF is extremely risky in this game especially when you play against human opponent with 3 players on the front. do you have any other effective formations with 4 in the back other than the one you gave us here?
Thanks agian for this thread!
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Old 17-06-2004, 09:04   #18
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i am interested to see how ur 334 (the one with the wingers on the corner flags) goes.. how does it stand up in midfield??
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Old 17-06-2004, 09:59   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -=[101st]=-
i am interested to see how ur 334 (the one with the wingers on the corner flags) goes.. how does it stand up in midfield??
I tried it and actually it rocks in the offence. However, it leaves relatively some wide space in your mid feild. I think it is not the best formation against a stong offensive team.
I think if you want to have 3 players in the back, at least you should back this up with 2 DMF, or 1 DMF and a CM.
My 2 cents!
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Old 17-06-2004, 21:37   #20
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Take note mind, the alternate formations are purely for a few minutes at a time. They are there to create vicious counter attcks and send players on runs and so forth.Like if you are defending a corner, stick 4 up front, everyone is back anyway, when you get the ball, you have more players running to the goal.
Like Morpheus says to Neo, "I'm only here to show you the door, you have to open it."
These are just to give you an idea of what is possible, so you can take it away and improve on it to fit your style/team. I have used all of these to great effect, and many different variations, in master league mode I change it just about every game depending on who's fit. The most subtle change can have a huge impact on your play, in good and bad ways. I couldn't possibly post all of them. If you practice and learn when to change and why you are changing, you can just take the piss out of people's defence. Try building a team around certain favourite players, and use all of their abilities. I can't tell you absolutely everything about how I play, if I ever get to play against anyone on these forums, I will probably need a little something special up my sleeve....
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Old 17-06-2004, 21:42   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by observer
I think if you want to have 3 players in the back, at least you should back this up with 2 DMF, or 1 DMF and a CM.
My 2 cents!
I have done that, did you see the pics?
Also read the above post.
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Old 17-06-2004, 21:58   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by observer
Absolutely classic, man. And it sure helps.
1. Now I can clearly understand why I used to have some problems in the back. This is cause I have the back line set to "A", and my mate plays with 3 fast forwards (Henry, Pele and Ronaldo!!). I think setting the back line to "B" or "C" will hold them back. But, would they still go forward in Corners and free kicks?
2. I wonder what is meant by "SM" in the picture you are showing. I can't seem to find this position at all!!
3. I always set the "Defense/Attack level" to manual. I like to control how offensive I want to play through out the game. Do you recommend that?
4. Do you use any "man mark" in the defense. I read here that it is quite risky and easily shakes up the defense sometimes. I have my formation very similar to the one you displayed in the second picture (4 in the back) and I set the DMF defense to "covering" to with arrows exactly like you illustrated. I think it is effective. Do use "CV" in any other positions?
5. Last but not least, I find playing with 3 defenders and 1 DMF is extremely risky in this game especially when you play against human opponent with 3 players on the front. do you have any other effective formations with 4 in the back other than the one you gave us here?
Thanks agian for this thread!
Lots of long questions mate. It's like being 16 again doing exams.
1. Yes.
2. What do you think SM means mate, in a football game? SIDE MIDFIELD. *smacks forhead* I only missed the 'f's off so I didn't clutter the picture too much.
3.Yes. Don't trust the computer with anything, it will punish you.
4. Man mark, no. Useless. (2 questions here) CV covering, I don't bother. I leave it default.
5. Back 3, Back 4, all the same to me. Back 4 gives you less attacking options, Back 3 isn't risky at all if you use it right and have the right players, always use a sweeper in the middle. I find it easier to counter with a back 3. Back 4 requires you to build every play slowly and skilfully from the back. I like both styles, and just adapt to who's fit in my team. (again 2 questions here) I do have other 442 ideas, but I don't have a clue who you have, what your option file is like, how you want it done. Use your initiative and knock one up youreslf. If you follow my guidelines, and mix a bit of imagination you could make a superb formation catered just to your style, mate.
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Old 17-06-2004, 21:58   #23
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nice job indeed
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Old 19-06-2004, 18:33   #24
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A superb Friday night of football over at my mates house. We skinned up and got down to business. I used the same set up all night. (Will post image here later.)
1. Me 3 Him 2 (first goal 6 mins, Zidane screamer)
2. Me 6 Him 2 (Dominated and destroyed)
3. Me 6 Him 2 (Conceded 2, then scored 6)
4. Me 1 Him 8 (All went horribly wrong, had Henry sent off 4 mins in, lost plot)
5. Me 6 Him 4 (went 4-0 down and pulled it back in second half, possibly my best game ever )
6. Me 5 Him 5, and Pele misses in penalties, I lose.

This is an example, if you use these formations effectively, you can score a lot of goals, but the dark side is you can make mistakes and suffer (got beat 8-1 one game)
I believe in true entertainment, and that is how I play my football. I like to attack, concede goals, then score more. People love watching me play, never a dull moment.
The lad I played against has been my sparring partner for years, and we regularly compete, I have the edge on games won, but he has the ability to upset the stats (usually has the luck on his side) he is more of a simple and effective player. The only reason I have posted this is because of my excitement. My PS2 is broken at the mo and I only get to play when I go to a mates house, the fact that I've hardly played the game for a month, and still went over and beat him convincingly makes me feel very good. I can't believe I almost forgot how good the game is.
Then we put TOCA Race Driver 2 on XBox. What a fucking game that is too.
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Old 20-06-2004, 12:10   #25
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This post is just details of my friday night of PES. It's long winded. I was very bored last night.



Ok, the guy I was playing's knickname is McNab, if you were wondering. There's a few lads play and I've known them for years and they are fellow PES veterans. You may be asking, "why type all this?" I'll tell you why, because my PS2 is broken and I can't play PES until a weekend when I go over to a mates house (I live a long way from where I used to live). I get very excited about the football I'll tell you. It's sad, I know. So I'm sat at my computer, with no PES. I can type fast. I would normally have spent this time right now playing PES. What's a PES addict gonna do? This is like a smoker making a tab from dumps and rizlas.

The players listed were the players we used in six games, some as subs and some as starting players. We both kept the same formations for all six games, with a few tweaks during games. We played 15 minute games on 5* at Catalonia. All players on red arrows. With ref Heinrich Hausen (I think that's his name. Collina look-alike.) I knew what formation McNab used, so I set my team up in advance.

First game I was getting my feet, and before I knew it 2 excellent plays led to me conceding 2 Thierry Henry goals. I sat forward and kicked off for the second half. Now composed after a toke, I brought Henry off for Alan Shearer, an inspired substitution. End to end stuff for 10 minutes, and Shearer grabs a goal, I smell a comeback. Shearer heads from a Beckham cross in injury time, I leap from my seat. Golden goal, extra time. Shearer knocks it to jMz(my PS2 alter-ego) from the kick off, he rolls it back to Gerrard who stands still, then moves out of the way of an oncoming challenge to put it into Shearers feet. jMz is cutting across the pitch with a deft touch of L2 + square. The defender is dragged with him, space for Gerrard to run into, laid on for him to collect in his stride by Shearer. Gerrard is storming into the box here, he chips it over the incoming defender into jMz's path..... time stops. Bullet time. Kahn storms out, I hear silence, jMz drops his shoulder and Kahn commits to the ground. L1 and a tap of square. It's in off the bar. Not many games make me this happy. And this was just the first match. Final score 3-2, I win.

Kickoff, second game. I'm ready now, I'm preparing myself. Usual passing, cat and mouse stuff. I get a corner, there is a scramble and in the chaos I took out Thuram with Henry, straight red, 4 mins gone. McNab just punished me. My team fell to pieces and he put 8 past me in the next 80 mins. I was disgusted with myself, but the boy played well. I snatched a consolation goal in the 87th minute with jMz after soaking up constant pressure and countering through a supreme Beckenbauer pass. Too late though. Final Score 8-1, I lose.
Cup of tea and a smoke, break for Italy - Sweden.

Game three, I am refreshed after watching proper footie. I knock my aggression up and go for it. He gets a goal, and I'm thinking what the fuck do I have to do, shot after shot after shot, I'm just missing. I just kept calm and played my game. I tried to frustrate him and made a few harsh challenges when he was playing well. I gave a free kick away about 45-50 yds out. He always has a strike with Carlos, and they usually go wide or the keeper has time to get to it. I wasn't worried. This time it spectacularly curls over the wall and leaves the keeper no chance. I find myself 2 goals down with only 15 mins gone. Why is this happening? I get angry. No mercy, no respect. Shearer on again, 26 yrs old, fresh as a daisy. Strangely he doesn't score but lifts the team and my passes start linking together. For the rest of the first half I just kept the ball, tried to outplay him and tinkered with my formations. 2 counter attacking goals later and I'm level when the whistle goes for the interval. I took Henry off and give Rooney a chance. He lit the game up and played a big part in a four goal half. I was starting to get used to the formations I'd put in, and causing havoc. Gaps were popping up everywhere. And my players were running into them. Shearer gets his goal in the last minute from a floated Pires free kick. Final score 6-2, I win.

We jumped straight back into another game. 6mins gone, Zidane pops up in a gap on the edge of the box, latches onto a loose ball and forces it in off the post. Good start. I kept letting him get into my half, and then counter attacking him. I was getting used to the setup. Just before half time, Mcnab gets a goal and makes it 4-1. I just applied the same in the second half and scored another 2 goals. Again Mcnab grabs a goal in the last minute. Final score 6-2, I win.
Straight into another game. I'm just letting him attack and try to counter, but at half time I'm 4-0 down. Head in hands. He was on to me. Change of tactics. Hoping his players were tired I just went all out. It didn't matter because I played the best half I've ever had on PES3. I totally dominated and scored 6 fabulous goals. The last was Henry slotting through Oli Kahn's legs, I had to save it. Final score 6-4, I win.

No matter what happened now I had won the series (6 games, if equal, play a decider)
But we played the last game anyway. A superb 5-5 thriller, ending up in penalties. Everybody scores. Pele steps up for my last penner. Puts it wide of the left post. You dick. Final score 5-5 (5-4 pens), I lose.

So, I won 4-2 on games and we both walk away with a smile. I won't get to have another game til next weekend now. Bugger.
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Old 20-06-2004, 12:50   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jMz
A superb Friday night of football over at my mates house. We skinned up and got down to business. I used the same set up all night. (Will post image here later.)
1. Me 3 Him 2 (first goal 6 mins, Zidane screamer)
2. Me 6 Him 2 (Dominated and destroyed)
3. Me 6 Him 2 (Conceded 2, then scored 6)
4. Me 1 Him 8 (All went horribly wrong, had Henry sent off 4 mins in, lost plot)
5. Me 6 Him 4 (went 4-0 down and pulled it back in second half, possibly my best game ever )
6. Me 5 Him 5, and Pele misses in penalties, I lose.

This is an example, if you use these formations effectively, you can score a lot of goals, but the dark side is you can make mistakes and suffer (got beat 8-1 one game)
I believe in true entertainment, and that is how I play my football. I like to attack, concede goals, then score more. People love watching me play, never a dull moment.
The lad I played against has been my sparring partner for years, and we regularly compete, I have the edge on games won, but he has the ability to upset the stats (usually has the luck on his side) he is more of a simple and effective player. The only reason I have posted this is because of my excitement. My PS2 is broken at the mo and I only get to play when I go to a mates house, the fact that I've hardly played the game for a month, and still went over and beat him convincingly makes me feel very good. I can't believe I almost forgot how good the game is.
Then we put TOCA Race Driver 2 on XBox. What a fucking game that is too.
I can feel for you the excitement that you feel. Everyone of us has this mate that it is always a pleasure to kick his ass. Nothing beats it when you publicly humiliate your mate and have him go home with a defeat.
last time I played for 7 hours with my friend and I beat him 14/13. Imagine, just 1 match deifference after 7 hours of playing, this is to show you how competitive we are. And we have been this way since WE 4. The problem that you normally face after playing for ages again and again with the same opponent is that the game reaches a dead lock where you feel you cant get creative anymore. This is the time where you should have some major changes in your formation and strategies and even in the way you play. The brilliant thing about this game is that you always can come up with something new.Thatswhy I see the formations you early suggested extremely useful.
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Old 20-06-2004, 13:14   #27
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One thing here I would like ask about. I have a problem When having multiple formations and change them during the game as you do with + . When I do this in the game, the players are shuffeled in the wrong positions in the new formation. For example, if you have Beckham as a LW in formation 1 or 2, he might be RW or CF in formation 3. This is just an example I know it might not be the case with Beckham in your formation. In this case I have to go back to the formation menu and change the positions of my players to suite the new formation which spoils the the spontaneousness of changeing the formation!
is there a way to avoid this, or I just have to use players that can play in different positions?
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Old 20-06-2004, 15:24   #28
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Quote:
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When I do this in the game, the players are shuffeled in the wrong positions in the new formation. For example, if you have Beckham as a LW in formation 1 or 2, he might be RW or CF in formation 3. This is just an example I know it might not be the case with Beckham in your formation. In this case I have to go back to the formation menu and change the positions of my players to suite the new formation which spoils the the spontaneousness of changeing the formation!
is there a way to avoid this, or I just have to use players that can play in different positions?
I do that on purpose when I play. You don't have to copy mine exactly mate, they are just to put the idea in your head. See I would normally play myself much as I play in real life. I just go anywhere around and in the box. Moving away from defenders. So that's why that player seems to pop up on both wings and up front or variations. The whole point of doing it is to use players multible abilities and positions. Like you see the best teams lining up 442, they don't look like it during a game though, take Real Madrid and France. They are switching wings running and popping up all over the place. So it's down to you to take your squad, pick your best, but most versatile team and create something special, just for you. Then keep it secret. So no-one will counter it. I won't post something I actually use, and if I do, I'll miss out minor (but important) details.
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Old 20-06-2004, 16:45   #29
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You use the Attack arrows and so do I, but I'm not certain does that indicate runs they should make or where they focus their attacks or what. I've used them as I had thought them the direction for them to attack etc. and its good so hopefulyl i got it right else its just pot luck

How did you draw those formations up tho? Have you got PES3 for the PC or something because they are neat!
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Old 20-06-2004, 17:52   #30
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Attack arrows are a few things, it tells you in the manual.
No I don't have the luxury of PES3 at the moment, my PS2 is bust and I just don't have it for PC. I made the formations from scratch on Photoshop, I built a template then just manipulated that for each different image. I'm a bit of a computer artist.
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