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Old 18-09-2008, 15:18   #1
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Frown Ronaldo Luis Nazário de Lima, was he that good?

I'm guessing he'll be in Brazil's Reserve, just like Veron is with Argentina..

Anyways, I think the Real Ronaldo has been Finished for some time now.. Hugely OVERRATED Legend, did Not played the Collective game, awesome Technique -BUT- his Individualism did not helped his team-mates at all.

Examples?? What happened to Raul when Ronaldo arrived at Real Madrid?? Raul took a dramatic dip in form for a couple of seasons. Why?? Because Ronaldo only plays for himself.

The Raul-Morientes partnership was actually much better for Real Madrid, more Effective, a Champions League winning Partnership.

People sometimes say ridiculous statements such as "Ronaldo was better than Maradona" or "Ronaldo the Greatest player of all-time". I think that's plain ridiculous, the people who say such things have Obviously never seen Maradona playing.

Maradona was a player who made his team-mates better in every team he played for -whereas- Ronaldo was a great Individual, he was great, but he did Not made his team-mates any better.

I think that's an Aspect of Football that is Ignored by many Fanatics of the "Spectacular".

Anyways, is Rivaldo going to be in the Game??

And I also wondered why Romario didn't make it into PES5 or PES6, he hadn't Retired by that Time -and- he was nowhere to be found. Yes he made it into the "PES Shop" -but- with some crappy looking Face and some Random Name.

Hope that's not the case with Rivaldo and Ronaldo.
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Old 18-09-2008, 16:14   #2
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Originally Posted by Amateur View Post
I'm guessing he'll be in Brazil's Reserve, just like Veron is with Argentina..

Anyways, I think the Real Ronaldo has been Finished for some time now.. Hugely OVERRATED Legend, did Not played the Collective game, awesome Technique -BUT- his Individualism did not helped his team-mates at all.

Examples?? What happened to Raul when Ronaldo arrived at Real Madrid?? Raul took a dramatic dip in form for a couple of seasons. Why?? Because Ronaldo only plays for himself.

The Raul-Morientes partnership was actually much better for Real Madrid, more Effective, a Champions League winning Partnership.

People sometimes say ridiculous statements such as "Ronaldo was better than Maradona" or "Ronaldo the Greatest player of all-time". I think that's plain ridiculous, the people who say such things have Obviously never seen Maradona playing.

Maradona was a player who made his team-mates better in every team he played for -whereas- Ronaldo was a great Individual, he was great, but he did Not made his team-mates any better.

I think that's an Aspect of Football that is Ignored by many Fanatics of the "Spectacular".

Anyways, is Rivaldo going to be in the Game??

And I also wondered why Romario didn't make it into PES5 or PES6, he hadn't Retired by that Time -and- he was nowhere to be found. Yes he made it into the "PES Shop" -but- with some crappy looking Face and some Random Name.

Hope that's not the case with Rivaldo and Ronaldo.
overrated , are you kidding lol? if he never picked up ALL of those injuries he could have been the greatest ever!(I bet a lot of people won't disagree with that either). And you say his team mates may have suffered, his teams certainly never since he'd bang in goals left right & centre and won Brazil the World Cup in 2002. You say Raul suffered because of Ronaldo...maybe he just wasn't as good as he used to be, not because of anyone but himself. Raul used to be a goal machine but he changed his style a long time ago and was played on the left hand side a lot for Real Madrid...I just find it a bit harsh to blame Ronaldo for a Raul 'downfall'.
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Old 18-09-2008, 16:17   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amateur View Post
I'm guessing he'll be in Brazil's Reserve, just like Veron is with Argentina..

Anyways, I think the Real Ronaldo has been Finished for some time now.. Hugely OVERRATED Legend, did Not played the Collective game, awesome Technique -BUT- his Individualism did not helped his team-mates at all.

Examples?? What happened to Raul when Ronaldo arrived at Real Madrid?? Raul took a dramatic dip in form for a couple of seasons. Why?? Because Ronaldo only plays for himself.

The Raul-Morientes partnership was actually much better for Real Madrid, more Effective, a Champions League winning Partnership.

People sometimes say ridiculous statements such as "Ronaldo was better than Maradona" or "Ronaldo the Greatest player of all-time". I think that's plain ridiculous, the people who say such things have Obviously never seen Maradona playing.

Maradona was a player who made his team-mates better in every team he played for -whereas- Ronaldo was a great Individual, he was great, but he did Not made his team-mates any better.

I think that's an Aspect of Football that is Ignored by many Fanatics of the "Spectacular".

Anyways, is Rivaldo going to be in the Game??

And I also wondered why Romario didn't make it into PES5 or PES6, he hadn't Retired by that Time -and- he was nowhere to be found. Yes he made it into the "PES Shop" -but- with some crappy looking Face and some Random Name.

Hope that's not the case with Rivaldo and Ronaldo.
Someone tuck him in.
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Old 18-09-2008, 16:21   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun_Runner View Post
overrated , are you kidding lol? if he never picked up ALL of those injuries he could have been the greatest ever!(I bet a lot of people won't disagree with that either). And you say his team mates may have suffered, his teams certainly never since he'd bang in goals left right & centre and won Brazil the World Cup in 2002. You say Raul suffered because of Ronaldo...maybe he just wasn't as good as he used to be, not because of anyone but himself. Raul used to be a goal machine but he changed his style a long time ago and was played on the left hand side a lot for Real Madrid...I just find it a bit harsh to blame Ronaldo for a Raul 'downfall'.
And that's what I mean by "Fans of the Spectacular".. pure Fanboysm. Go watch a Real Player -and- then compare him with Ronaldo.

Diego Maradona, Johan Cruijff, Pele, Romario, Van Basten.. those where great players. On the other hand, Ronaldo.. well, I definitely Exaggerated by saying that he was OVERRATED.

But Ronaldo is definitely Not among the Top 5 best players of all time -and- he Most definitely would've never ever been the greatest, Not even without all the Injuries.

He lacked that Tactical Edge, great as an Individual -but- all that Time he took to hold onto the ball, that didn't make his team-mates any favors.

Coupled with the FACT that he has played for The Best Teams in Spain and Italy -and- Still has never made it to a Champions League Final.. that's Not Impressive to say the least. And it's also worth mentioning that Ronaldo has ONLY won 1 League Title in his Club Career.

An Indifferent Figure in every Club he played for.. might be remembered by Inter fans -but- most fans will quickly forget him. His Brazil career?? That's a completely different matter, although it's worth mentioning that Rivaldo was actually better than Ronaldo in 2002.
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Old 18-09-2008, 16:29   #5
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Ronaldo's Honours
Country

All-Time World Cup Goalscorer - 15 Goals in 19 games in 3 World Cups
2006 Bronze Boot - Third highest scorer (tied) - 3 goals and 1 assist
2002 Golden Boot - Top scorer - 8 goals
2002 Silver Ball - Second best player
2002 Winner
1998 Golden Ball - Best player
1998 Bronze Boot - Third highest scorer - 4 goals 4 assists
1998 Runner-up
1994 Winner
Confederations Cup: 1997
Copa América: 1997, 1999
Olympic Games: 1996 (3rd Place)


Club


Cruzeiro
Brazilian Cup:1993

PSV Eindhoven
Dutch Cup: 1996

FC Barcelona
Cup Winners' Cup: 1997
Spanish Super Cup: 1996

Internazionale
UEFA Cup: 1998

Real Madrid
Intercontinental Cup: 2002
La Liga - Primera División champions: 2002/2003
Spanish Super Cup: 2003

Individual

FIFA World Player of the Year: 1996 (youngest winner), 1997, 2002
World Soccer Player of the Year: 1996 (youngest winner), 1997, 2002
European Footballer of the Year (Ballon d'Or): 1997 (youngest winner), 2002
Onze d'Or: 1997, 2002
IFFHS World's Top Goal Scorer of the Year:[clarify] 1997
UEFA Most Valuable Player - 1998
UEFA Club Football Awards: Best Forward - 1998
FIFA World Cup All-Star Team: 1998, 2002
European Golden Boot: 1997
Bravo Award: 1997, 1998
Copa América 1999: Top Scorer
Spanish League Top Scorer: 1996-1997, 2003-2004
Dutch League Top Scorer: 1994-1995
Intercontinental Cup MVP: 2002
BBC Sports Personality of the Year Overseas Personality: 2002
Laureus World Sports Award for Comeback of the Year: 2003
Golden Foot award: 2006
Champion of Champions award: 2008

Still overated ?
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Old 18-09-2008, 16:33   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freestyleh7 View Post
Ronaldo's Honours
Country

All-Time World Cup Goalscorer - 15 Goals in 19 games in 3 World Cups
2006 Bronze Boot - Third highest scorer (tied) - 3 goals and 1 assist
2002 Golden Boot - Top scorer - 8 goals
2002 Silver Ball - Second best player
2002 Winner
1998 Golden Ball - Best player
1998 Bronze Boot - Third highest scorer - 4 goals 4 assists
1998 Runner-up
1994 Winner
Confederations Cup: 1997
Copa América: 1997, 1999
Olympic Games: 1996 (3rd Place)


Club


Cruzeiro
Brazilian Cup:1993

PSV Eindhoven
Dutch Cup: 1996

FC Barcelona
Cup Winners' Cup: 1997
Spanish Super Cup: 1996

Internazionale
UEFA Cup: 1998

Real Madrid
Intercontinental Cup: 2002
La Liga - Primera División champions: 2002/2003
Spanish Super Cup: 2003

Individual

FIFA World Player of the Year: 1996 (youngest winner), 1997, 2002
World Soccer Player of the Year: 1996 (youngest winner), 1997, 2002
European Footballer of the Year (Ballon d'Or): 1997 (youngest winner), 2002
Onze d'Or: 1997, 2002
IFFHS World's Top Goal Scorer of the Year:[clarify] 1997
UEFA Most Valuable Player - 1998
UEFA Club Football Awards: Best Forward - 1998
FIFA World Cup All-Star Team: 1998, 2002
European Golden Boot: 1997
Bravo Award: 1997, 1998
Copa América 1999: Top Scorer
Spanish League Top Scorer: 1996-1997, 2003-2004
Dutch League Top Scorer: 1994-1995
Intercontinental Cup MVP: 2002
BBC Sports Personality of the Year Overseas Personality: 2002
Laureus World Sports Award for Comeback of the Year: 2003
Golden Foot award: 2006
Champion of Champions award: 2008

Still overated ?
100 Insignificant Titles, NO Copa Libertadores, NO Champions League -and- Only one LEAGUE Title in his whole career.. As I said, Not impressive at all, even more so considering the Teams for whom he played for..

By the way, I'm not questioning his International Career.. it is his Club Career that I find Unimpressive.

FIFA World Player of the Year?? A complete joke, the player with the greatest "Marketing" usually ends up winning it. A completely Irrelevant award in my opinion.

Look at Milan, 3 World Player of the Years playing together.. too bad Kaka is OVERRATED.
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Old 18-09-2008, 16:41   #7
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Because he didnt win the champions league, he is overrated ? u dont win the champions league with one man u do know that right, it takes 11 men, he aint superman he can't play in defence and goal keeper, if thats what you're trying to say that must make cristiano ronaldo, maradona pele & van basten overrated ?
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Old 18-09-2008, 16:51   #8
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Quote:
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Because he didnt win the champions league, he is overrated ? u dont win the champions league with one man u do know that right, it takes 11 men, he aint superman he can't play in defence and goal keeper, if thats what you're trying to say that must make cristiano ronaldo, maradona pele & van basten overrated ?
I already admitted that I exaggerated by saying he was OVERRATED..

But still, I think people want to turn him into something he never was, some bigger than life Myth.. Similar to what FIFA has done with Pele.

Ronaldo was great, but I have seen better players than him. Maradona and Pele where much "smarter" than Ronaldo, they Consistently produced first-touch Incisive passes, they scored and assisted -as- well as Created Plays.

I think everyone's entitled to their Opinion -and- my Opinion is that Ronaldo always lacked that "Tactical Ability" -whereas- the likes of Diego Armando Maradona was a Tactical Genius, as well as Technically gifted.

Maradona didn't took too Long on the Ball, he Produced Football, he got his team-mates involved -and- as a consequence he made his team-mates better. This is why he could turn Average teams (such as the 1986 Argentine side and the 1980s Napoli side) into Champions.

This is pretty much what Juan Roman Riquelme did for Boca Juniors and Villarreal -although- of course, the Slower approach of the "Tactical Game" is hugely Overlooked by Most Fans.

This is why Ronaldo was better than Maradona -as- many Fans have stated plenty of times;

"Maradona was not that Impressive, I've seen better"

"Ronaldo could take on a whole team by himself.. he can get past 2 or 3 Defenders"

Too bad that when Ronaldo was too busy taking on Defenders on his own -the- rest of his team-mates where left wanting, they where not involved in the play. Football is a Collective game.

People talk to me about Great "Strikers" -and- I think about Romario and Van Basten.
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Old 18-09-2008, 17:19   #9
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Old 18-09-2008, 17:27   #10
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I can't believe you're saying because Ronaldo never won a Champions League his club record isn't that good...

That's like saying because Bergkamp never won a World Cup he's overrated.

You seem to think football is ALL about team work. Of course that's the main part of football, but it's individual brilliance that sets football alight. eg Ronaldo, Ronaldinho in his prime and Messi the now.

I also wouldn't say Kaka is overrated
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Old 18-09-2008, 17:34   #11
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Am i right in saying that Ronaldo has only ever once picked a league winners medal, with Madrid in 02/03?
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Old 18-09-2008, 17:48   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun_Runner View Post
I can't believe you're saying because Ronaldo never won a Champions League his club record isn't that good...

That's like saying because Bergkamp never won a World Cup he's overrated.

You seem to think football is ALL about team work. Of course that's the main part of football, but it's individual brilliance that sets football alight. eg Ronaldo, Ronaldinho in his prime and Messi the now.

I also wouldn't say Kaka is overrated
Hey, that's your Opinion and I respect that.. also agree that Without the Individuals Football would Not be the same.

But when People talk about The "Greatest" I only Consider the players who where both Technically and Tactically Great; Diego Maradona, Johan Cruijff, Romario, Pele, Van Basten, Roberto Baggio, Zinedine Zidane, Zico, etc, etc..

Players like Ronaldo, who never where that good at getting their team-mates Involved.. I love watching those type of players -but- I just would never consider them among the Greatest.

And then again "Individuals" come in very different packages.. Ronaldo was an Individual who could get past 2 or 3 opponents with incredible ease -whereas- Carlos Valderrama was an Individual who could get an Assist from Anywhere, but was too Slow to get past a couple of Defenders.

So yeah, we have Individuals such as Kaka, Ronaldinho, Messi, etc, etc.. But we also have Individuals such as Carlos Valderrama, Zinedine Zidane, Juan Roman Riquelme, etc, etc.. It's a matter of taste.

I would never say Bergkamp is OVERRATED because he never won a World Cup.. Although Bergkamp never played for Barcelona or Real Madrid.

It's the same with Matt Le Tissier, he never won anything.. and Yet I think of him as an Underrated Legend.

And as for Kaka, I think Ronaldinho was a great player in his prime -but- Kaka has always been Overrated. I fail to see what people see in him, he is just Ordinary in my Opinion.
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Old 18-09-2008, 18:02   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amateur View Post
I'm guessing he'll be in Brazil's Reserve, just like Veron is with Argentina..

Anyways, I think the Real Ronaldo has been Finished for some time now.. Hugely OVERRATED Legend, did Not played the Collective game, awesome Technique -BUT- his Individualism did not helped his team-mates at all.

Examples?? What happened to Raul when Ronaldo arrived at Real Madrid?? Raul took a dramatic dip in form for a couple of seasons. Why?? Because Ronaldo only plays for himself.


Hope that's not the case with Rivaldo and Ronaldo.
nah, its just Raul was the Madrids fans favourites, and when a composed finisher came and outscored him the Madrid fans didnt like it. he is far from an overrated legend, hes shit now dont get me wrong, but if you were to ask me id say hes better than Pele, who supposedly scored over 1000 goals, yeah right i think there including the ones he scored at primary school or something.

i also hope he makes it to the bench for 2010, you dont become the top ever world cup scorer been overrated and although hes a fat mess he is still a sure finisher, just got to lay off of the triple servings of pasta.

hel be in as a shop player, a hidden player or a unbelonging player, even if he signs for someone now they prolly wont put him there. there are 2 brazilian teams on i believe one is Sao Paoulo n cant remember the other, International maybe......anyways i hope he is unbelonging or in the reserves of brazil as not a single shop player has a real face!

plus the flipflap was made famous by Ronaldo, only he rolled his foot over and flicked it the other way, which looks better imo
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Old 18-09-2008, 18:09   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amateur View Post


"Maradona was not that Impressive, I've seen better"

"Ronaldo could take on a whole team by himself.. he can get past 2 or 3 Defenders"


People talk to me about Great "Strikers" -and- I think about Romario and Van Basten.
not sure who you are quoting there, isnt Maradona most famous for dribbling past half of the team and scoring, oh and then been shipped away for over celebrating and taking drugs, if my memory serves me right, not to take ought away from the man, i just find it hard to look upto someone who is involved in drugs and cheats (the hand of god) ive always though of Ronaldo as a player who will move past the office trap and keep his composure to finish, he relied on the midfield support and his pace and intelligence helped him beat the defence and keeper, he always knew where to put the ball. dont get me wrong, he certainly had a lot of skill and knew how to take people on as well

Pele was thrilling to watch, i remember when a ball cam through to him, he was 1on1 with the keeper and he just let it run through his legs without touching it, it beat the keeper but sadly went wide, that would have been an amazing goal, the strange thing is it wouldnt have been his, yet his skill certainly would have been what made it

sorry for the double post

theres the FLIPFLAP i was talking of on 45secs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXCMnstVSXU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dC7S7gSGoqQ
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Old 18-09-2008, 18:26   #15
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not sure who you are quoting there, isnt Maradona most famous for dribbling past half of the team and scoring, oh and then been shipped away for over celebrating and taking drugs, if my memory serves me right, not to take ought away from the man, i just find it hard to look upto someone who is involved in drugs and cheats (the hand of god) ive always though of Ronaldo as a player who will move past the office trap and keep his composure to finish, he relied on the midfield support and his pace and intelligence helped him beat the defence and keeper, he always knew where to put the ball. dont get me wrong, he certainly had a lot of skill and knew how to take people on as well

Pele was thrilling to watch, i remember when a ball cam through to him, he was 1on1 with the keeper and he just let it run through his legs without touching it, it beat the keeper but sadly went wide, that would have been an amazing goal, the strange thing is it wouldnt have been his, yet his skill certainly would have been what made it

sorry for the double post

theres the FLIPFLAP i was talking of on 45secs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXCMnstVSXU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dC7S7gSGoqQ
Yeah, that was on one occasion in the 1986 World Cup.. the resting 99.9% of the Time he was creating Plays for his Team-mates, he gave some great Assists during that World Cup. Particularly in the Final against Germany.

Anyways, if "the Goal of the Century" is the only thing you remember about Maradona -then- you have obviously Not seen much from him.

And as for Pele, what impresses me the most about him is his quickness in thinking, he already knows what to do with the ball before he gets it, he is a very accurate passer, a very good shooter, and he could Dribble his way through Defenders too.

I like Pele's Perfectionist style of Play, a Minimalistic Style of Play, he never hold on to the ball excessively -and- usually assisted or created a goal with only 2 or 3 Touches on the ball. Juan Roman Riquelme reminds me of him, but like a Slower version.
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