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Old 03-11-2015, 12:13   #1
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A critical response

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Originally Posted by jimminy View Post
Quite an astute summing up. PES seems to be last priority for Konami. Maybe they already have plans to wind the series down or sell it off. Especially if you can point to declining sales next year.

On the issue of boycotting etc. If Konami gave up on PES does anyone have any informed opinions on the chances of another company picking up the brand/engine? (Surely the FOX engine would be attractive.) Or is there a real chance we could end up with a FIFA monopoly?
This all made me think about how Konami are in this position and I've arrived at the view it has simply to do with the cost and capital distribution.

It begins to make sense when you put these things together. Think about it.
When Konami set aside capital to create another PES think about where and how that capital is spent, in other words where does the money go?

I would say that nowadays the biggest chunk of that capital goes on licensing. Then perhaps publicity and advertising. Then publishing and distribution costs. Then I would say somewhere at the bottom is the capital set aside for the actual game itself.

Now look this is hypothetical but it seems to make sense, it would explain why the support has been declining over the years (fewer patches, longer waiting times between patches, the consistent releasing of half-baked games, rehashing old features/themes/problems, fewer positive changes, etc).

Makes sense, we live at a time where money and image dominate the sporting world and so if Konami have to pay more to keep up this side of things then surely somewhere along the line is going to get squeezed and it certainly isn't going to be the advertising or licencing.

Think of Governmental cuts in politics, do they ever happen at the top? Of course not, the areas that get squeezed are those at the bottom, NHS etc - continuing the idea that you can essentially keep the 'structure' but strip down the quality.

So perhaps if fans showed that image isn't everything and showed that we could do without Ronaldo/Messi or any other stars/brands/teams/logos on the front/back or inside the game for that mater then Konami and the other companies would have much more money to play around with when creating and implementing fresh ideas. But it would take a big shout from the fans and I don't think the younger fans could cope without those things in their games.

Anyway, I for one could certainly/happily/easily put up with playing a completely non-licenced game provided I could customize those themes myself and it was a great game to play.

What do you guys think?


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Old 03-11-2015, 15:31   #2
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Anyway, I for one could certainly/happily/easily put up with playing a completely non-licenced game provided I could customize those themes myself and it was a great game to play.
Don't they need to license players as well?? So, a completely licenses free game would mean no correct teams AND no correct players? tough sell...
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Old 03-11-2015, 15:34   #3
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PES 3 had a bald-headed referee on the front cover and I bought it!

I hate all of this hero-worship, I buy games to play them, not to have homosexual fantasies about who's on the bloody cover (no offence to homosexuals). That really is a waste of money, I wonder how much they paid Neymar Jr to play PES with Bhatti? That video looked awkward! Plus the cover/endorsement fees, it's a joke. They care more about the South American market yet make the game like the Benny Hill Show on crack- talk about incongruous/counter-intuitive!

It looks to me like they are winding down with the view of exiting the market. They won't go down without ripping off the loyal PES fans first however! We keep waiting for a 'PES 7', so to speak... I doubt it will ever happen unless they sell the series to another developer.

It's a shame, PES used to be a top quality product!
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Old 03-11-2015, 15:44   #4
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If the game was good enough people would buy it, even if doge was on the cover. But for me, having players in game that (at least with their stats) represent their real world counterparts is a must. I wouldn't play master League if there were no real players on the rosters.

PS How the fuck do homosexual fantasies make their way in a football game discussion? #weird
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Old 03-11-2015, 16:41   #5
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I don't know, I just typed it. / -:

No offence meant to you, sorry about that.

I just meant it shouldn't matter who's on the cover, it's a shame that people even give a crap about such a trivial matter.
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Old 03-11-2015, 16:44   #6
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PES 3 had a bald-headed referee on the front cover and I bought it!
I hate all of this hero-worship, I buy games to play them, not to have homosexual fantasies about who's on the bloody cover (no offence to homosexuals). That really is a waste of money, I wonder how much they paid Neymar Jr to play PES with Bhatti? That video looked awkward! Plus the cover/endorsement fees, it's a joke. They care more about the South American market yet make the game like the Benny Hill Show on crack- talk about incongruous/counter-intuitive!

It looks to me like they are winding down with the view of exiting the market. They won't go down without ripping off the loyal PES fans first however! We keep waiting for a 'PES 7', so to speak... I doubt it will ever happen unless they sell the series to another developer.

It's a shame, PES used to be a top quality product!
The ref was Pier Luigi Collina, the most prominent ref of the last 20 years. There is also a painting of him by Edvard Munch.

The cover star thing seems to have come from FIFA, I remember them having David Ginola in the 90s. Doesn't matter to me but the new generation seem more concerned with image/presentation. But I do wonder if it actually is value for money.

PS: Anyone who chooses to take offence at your homosexual comment needs to buy a brain. Nothing derogatory about gays in that.
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Old 03-11-2015, 17:05   #7
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In my opinion. A licence-free game 100% editable would be a dream.
Look what modders do on Pc.
No real faces, callnames, leagues.... No problem. Just give us the tools to create as much as we want and you invest all your money in the game improvement.

But....what about online? Would it be just playable with fake names? That is the point.

If you are an offline player, my option mentioned above would be just the perfect dream.
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Old 03-11-2015, 17:53   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimminy View Post
The ref was Pier Luigi Collina, the most prominent ref of the last 20 years. There is also a painting of him by Edvard Munch.

The cover star thing seems to have come from FIFA, I remember them having David Ginola in the 90s. Doesn't matter to me but the new generation seem more concerned with image/presentation. But I do wonder if it actually is value for money.

PS: Anyone who chooses to take offence at your homosexual comment needs to buy a brain. Nothing derogatory about gays in that.
Ahhhh... I knew his name began with a 'P', thanks; I'll always have fond memories of that game. That was my first foray into the wonderful world that WAS PES! I had it on the PC, an American who's online name was 'Wolf' (or something similar) came out with some great game modifications. The good old days of modern football gaming.

I remember Paul Scholes being on the cover of FIFA 2001, a very skilful player, but with a modesty that puts the Prima Donas of today to shame... if they even know what shame is!

I'm a mature gamer too, I've seen so many changes; I used to wish that I had a Commodore 64 so that I could play 'Match Day!' The kids today are far too concerned about the manufactured stars of today- what they're having for breakfast, stupid tattoos etc.

PES needs to go back to basics- I can't see that happening though- we are unfortunately of the minority. Today, it's image over substance- pathetic!
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Old 03-11-2015, 17:58   #9
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fatehasfans has stepped out of the darkness into slightly less darkness

Quote:
Originally Posted by dannydecai View Post
In my opinion. A licence-free game 100% editable would be a dream.
Look what modders do on Pc.
No real faces, callnames, leagues.... No problem. Just give us the tools to create as much as we want and you invest all your money in the game improvement.

But....what about online? Would it be just playable with fake names? That is the point.

If you are an offline player, my option mentioned above would be just the perfect dream.
Exactly, the modding community would thrive as would the community itself as a result, provided the game was great, right?

The problem for this idea is that there would need to be a massive shift of focus from the current attention on the more superficial things associated with the game towards the more fundamental things associated with the computer game itself i.e. The stuff that really matters. Sadly, given the current trends I just don't think that's something the marketing or sports industries would want to see happen.

Similar to the music industry, the whole idea of branding in sport (and in general) is to increase exposure, particularly given that so much money is paid to top players it is now essential for sponsors and teams to earn more from the 'status' of elite sporting personalities - it's a terrible circle and one that I feel really tarnishes the nature of sport.

One of the biggest reason this focus won't shift anytime soon is because sport games (and all games in general) are being aimed more and more at younger audiences. This age demographic simply buys into this aspect of marketing a lot easier than its older counterparts i.e. us - again similar to the music industry (I'm sure Justin Bieber didn't make his millions off us lot - certainly not, he made it through utilizing marketing mechanics within the industry to help influence/sedate/control consumer choice and overall who are the easiest people to control? Young people.

The same can be said of the sports industry. Leading Brands such as Nike, Adidas etc and leading teams (now brands themselves) Real Madrid, Barcelona, Man Utd etc, all do the same attempt to control consumer choice - those with children of a certain age will have heard them beg for a certain brand at one point or another, why is this?
It is because that brand have spent xxxx to control consumer choice, and lets just say Nike are doing a very good job in the playground which in turn is establishing a legacy of artificial brand loyalty. The same can be said with teams. 10 years ago there was much more variation in team selection in football games whereas now that variation would focus a lot more sharply around a small handful of teams, I don't need to name names, again more artificial blind loyalty.

Take my son (13) as an average example of their target demographic, he likes football (as does nearly every child), he has asked on multiple occasions for the full kit of his favourite team - Real Madrid, ok fair enough sounds like what most kids would do, right?
So at nearly 100/140 euro/$150+ for the kit I have to ask myself a few questions before shelling out. Namely, how well does my son like this team and I guess, out of interest, why this team in particular?

Well, it is no surprise that when asked he can't answer the second question but I sort of knew that all along (well it's because every kid in the street and at school and in PES/FIFA are picking Real Madrid as their team).
So what about the first question, well I asked him to name me some players from the team and have a guess which player(s) he could name?

You guessed it, Mr Ronaldo and no one else.

I also asked....

Had he watched any Real Madrid matches? Nope.

Did he know which league they were in? Nope.

Did he know which country their league was in? Just about.

Did he know where they were in the league? Nope.

Did he know any history of the club at all? Nope. (Ok so I'm being a little harsh with this one).

Does this make him a real fan or just a kid who has been duped? Well, I think the latter.

Anyway back to the point - This stuff serves to highlight not only the power of branding but what is happening, not only in the industry of sport but the industry of games as well - The monopolization of choice and it is sadly something that I don't think will change anytime soon, not unless the majority (i.e. the kids) change their minds - but given the trend it's clear that this is being made up for them.

So back to my original point, I don't see the idea I suggested being implemented anytime soon (unless by some independent developer) but it doesn't stop me from hoping.

P.S. Perhaps Konami could take a risk get back to basics and do something like this, personally I think it would be brilliant it would be great for the community as a whole (a great game eventually sells itself) and the only people who would stand to lose out are those who are irrelevant to the nature of sport anyway.
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Old 03-11-2015, 18:17   #10
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^ Tremendous posting, you obviously have your eyes open to the changes taking in this world today! I feel sorry for the children these days, they've known nothing more than this superficially-narcissistic, nihilistic ethos that's so pervasive right now.

I think we're just grasping at straws, the gaming industry is all about raking in money in exchange for cheap thrills/instant gratification right now. I can't see it getting any better in the foreseeable future- the culture creators won't allow that to happen, it's a race to the bottom... / -:
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