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Old 19-11-2014, 15:51   #31
sillen102
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The thing is, they are unable to create AI intelligent enough, so that's why this scripting happens. Until they make big improvements with the programming of AI, they do these things to balance the matches, otherwise you'll just end up winning 5-0 every match.

This part that I quoted is actually not true. It's the other way around. They can make the AI so good that it will destroy any human player in any game and never make a misstake. Simply calculate all the options of what you can do from a position and find the optimal position for the defenders to be in to stop your attack. And in attack just calculate which one of your players is just an inch in the wrong position and exploit it. It's not that hard. A computer can make millons of calculations per second. But how fun would that be?

The hard part is making the AI make misstakes...sometimes. And then balance it to simulate a human beeing.


One of the first things you learn in computer programing is that it's no such thing as random when it comes to computers. There are already written random generators in almost every computer language and that you can use in your own programs but none of them are really random. They are more or less random to a human being depending on how well the programers made them and how complex and accurate you need them to be.

A computer is basically a calculator. If you input something it will calculate it and output something. This is the basic. A computer game is simply a whole bunch of calculations.

Asking a computer to do something random is very hard becouse what you're basically doing is asking it to give you a diffrent output everytime but for the same input. It's like if you would ask it to calculate 2+2 (which is 4) but you want the computer to sometimes give you the answer 5 and sometimes 6. It's just not logical!


As far as scripting it's the same for your goalkeeper. He has to sometimes make mistakes to simulate a human goalkeeper. Human goalkeepers also tend to do stupid things....sometimes. It happens to the best ones. They're human! Just look here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiMP2yvI8aI


The hard part is taking this into a computer game. Therefore I believe sometimes these "random" things can seem scripted. How could you make a goalkeeper misstake look like a misstake on a computer game without it looking scripted?


Also, f.i. IRL a team is most vulnerable right after scoring and it might be so that the programers took this into the equasion of the probability for when some things might occur.


I think the biggest problem with players that play games is that they would like their players to act like machines. But not the AI players.

F.i. You would want your goalkeeper to always make saves on certain type of shots, just like you expected your goalkeeper to save that simple ball but wouldn't get mad if it was a smashed shot into the top corner (and keeper in games thend to sometimes save those as well). But for a computer there is no diference between a "simple" ball and a hard one. It's just input. It's a bit of a double standard I think.

Also if goalkeepers in a game never ever made such misstakes then the game would not be realistic. The problem begins when they make huge amount of misstakes like the one you discribe. Then it's a shitty game!


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Old 19-11-2014, 16:08   #32
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@sillen102

I suppose it could go both ways. Create AI that's too easy to beat, or AI that's too tough.

The thing is with these "mistakes", is that they often don't feel like mistakes, they feel like bad programming. Take my GK incident for example (which actually happened in Fifa, I should add). To be fair, I've seen a fair fee GK cockups in PES, but nothing like this. It was the type of incident that you'd never see happen for the CPU, or in real life. Wish I had recorded so I can show you how bad it was. Obviously I can accept that players make mistakes..... but this was..... just fucking ludicrous. I couldn't believe it when I saw it.

You're right about nothing being "random". Everything in a game is coded, so every deflection, every flick on is programmed to go where it goes.

I'm happy for there to be scripting, but as I said, they need to make it less obvious.
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Old 19-11-2014, 16:12   #33
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There shoulndt be any scripting/handicapping imo, especially on human vs human online. Its basically cheating. Just because its coming from a company doesnt mean its less bad.

I had games without scripting on fifa and pes. It works just fine. The Purpose of scripting to make you keep trying over and over after loss and get you addicted. The game nicely puts you in a winning streak then handicaps the shit out of you. Yoiu then keep trying because you know you were better than this. You wont stop until you reach the point again. This is a lame tactic ea uses as well. Of i knew that before i wouldnt have bought the game. Adam told me there isnt scripting in this game. Even worse that they lie at their custommers. This is my last pes.
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Old 19-11-2014, 17:33   #34
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I'm LOVING the game!

Do I think there is scripting? Honestly I don't care. I was playing a ML FA Cup semi game vs Man U with my 15th place Crystal Palace team and I lost the game despite outshooting them 8-1 and I hit 3 goalposts. Did it feel like scripting when I missed the wide open net from 6 feet away? Yes. But do I care? No. Why? Because it only adds to the difficulty of the game which is fine by me and it means that when I eventually do beat Man U and win my first FA Cup its going to be extra sweet because it means I overcame the team and the possible scripting.

The best way to overcome scripting is to play better and score more goals, something that will come wiht more time spent with the game.

I just see a lot of inpatient people here who are struggling to play well and are looking for excuses.

You don't like scripting? Score more goals! Stop whining.
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Old 19-11-2014, 17:41   #35
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There shoulndt be any scripting/handicapping imo, especially on human vs human online. Its basically cheating. Just because its coming from a company doesnt mean its less bad.

I had games without scripting on fifa and pes. It works just fine. The Purpose of scripting to make you keep trying over and over after loss and get you addicted. The game nicely puts you in a winning streak then handicaps the shit out of you. Yoiu then keep trying because you know you were better than this. You wont stop until you reach the point again. This is a lame tactic ea uses as well. Of i knew that before i wouldnt have bought the game. Adam told me there isnt scripting in this game. Even worse that they lie at their custommers. This is my last pes.

I don't think it's scripting. It's just that they have programmed the game AI to sometimes make misstakes and you sometimes happen to be on the short end of it. The problem is that we human tend to generalize and our perceptions is many times at fault. We often perceive things differently then they really are. We usually tend to "feel" things rather then make up our minds based on what is true statistically and logically. For instance I bet you seldom see what you call scripting when you are the one benefiting it. But when your players make misstakes a couple of times you see them and then your mind makes a judgement in a state of upset that this is what happens a lot.

In real life players make the dumbest misstakes. I mean look at what happened in the game between Borussia Dortmund and Borussia Mönchengladbach last week. Christophe Kramer, a german international who played in the World Cup final this summer, scored an own goal from half way out and they ended up loosing 1-0. Unbelievable right?! Never happened before! Scripting?!

I'm just saying that for a game to be realistic these things have to somehow be inserted into the game. Do the programers sometimes mess it up and make some stupid shit occur way too often? Well, hell yes! But they're also human.

Also this is what I was talking about when I said it's a bit of a double standard. You would like your own AI-controlled players to be predictable machines and not make silly errors. Right? Well I bet the Mönchengladbach coach also felt shitty after his best player makes a misstake like that and costs the team the whole game but since it's not a computer game he can't say it's scripting. But if it were a computer game, and he was like you, then he might have said that.
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Old 19-11-2014, 17:57   #36
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lol i can't deal. People really compare it to real life.

Who you think is responsible for the mistakes the players do in real life? Exactly the players themself. Who is responsible for those mistakes in pes? A 3rd party. How can you even compare that?

There are mistakes me and my opponent do by ourself, there shouldnt be some engine or however anyone want to call it generating mistakes. It just makes the endresult of a game unreal.

And fyi i see it by myself. Especially seen it in fifa by myself thats why i came to pes. You and alot of people lack awareness.

And i also done what kramer did byself, which was then my fault.
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Old 19-11-2014, 18:23   #37
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lol i can't deal. People really compare it to real life.

Who you think is responsible for the mistakes the players do in real life? Exactly the players themself. Who is responsible for those mistakes in pes? A 3rd party. How can you even compare that?

There are mistakes me and my opponent do by ourself, there shouldnt be some engine or however anyone want to call it generating mistakes. It just makes the endresult of a game unreal.

And fyi i see it by myself. Especially seen it in fifa by myself thats why i came to pes. You and alot of people lack awareness.

And i also done what kramer did byself, which was then my fault.

Well the thing is you can't really have two sets of AI's. If you program an AI to sometimes make misstakes then the AI players will make them regardless of if it's a CPU vs. CPU, Player vs. CPU or Player vs. Player game. The players in your team and your opponents team that you're not controlling are controlled by the AI, hence they will make misstakes. It's just part of the game.

And if the game isn't supposed to try and simulate football as it is IRL, then what's the point of it? That's why they try to implement randomness in the game so that it would feel more like real life football. That's the goal.


You have to start thinking of the game as sort of an environment, a stage that you and you opponent are in and compete at. Sometimes the environment will work to your advantage and sometimes not. It's just how things are. If you are way superior to your opponent it won't matter because it will just be f.i. if you win 5-0 or 5-1. But in close games it might sometimes however turn the game in someones favor. Just like Kramer's own goal might not have mattered if they were 3-0 up. But now it turned up to be the only goal of the game.

Sometimes the silly things that happen IRL aren't the player's fault. I remember a goal that Stan Collymore scored many years ago (I'm sure there are many more examples similar to this one but it's the one I come to think of right away). He took a shot from a long way out. Must have been something like 30 yards. The shot was so shit that the ball hardly made it to the goal. The goalkeeper went down on his knee to simply scoop it up. And the ball hits a tumble of grass about a yard in front of the keeper, bounces over his shoulder and into the goal. A misstake from the keeper?! Not really, the ball was rolling towards his hands at pass speed, hardly a shot and then takes a bounce off of a little tumble of grass infront of him. Can't blame him for the pitch being uneven. The same aplies to you and the game.
If you wan't the game to be realistic then it sometimes has to be unpredictable.


Also, I thing you are already prejudiced and every time you see some weird thing happening in a game you think "SCRIPTING! It's Big Brother EA against me". I really can't make any argument that will make a difference I'm afraid, you can either accept that weird shit sometimes happen, because they want the game to feel realistic, or not. It's up to you.


On funny bounces, just look at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDfQ...s&spfreload=10

BTW Stan Collymore's goal that I mentioned is the second one in the video (No.9) and I especially like the goal ranked as no.3
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Old 19-11-2014, 18:36   #38
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Judging from the big text you dont seem to get it. Fine. I wont bother reading.
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Old 19-11-2014, 18:55   #39
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@Ali Could you please shift all the discussion on scripting to a different thread? Its a topic without any real transparent info available and everyone has opinions. Reading the last few posts I am convinced that no party to this discussion will change their view. So, please if you think it right, shift the scripting talk to another thread maybe or rename this one instead. Thanks.
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Old 19-11-2014, 19:04   #40
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Judging from the big text you dont seem to get it. Fine. I wont bother reading.
That's partly my mistake, I assumed you wanted help getting rid of the scripting, that's why I offered all that tactics advice and posted that screen shot. But apparently all you want is to internet-forum-moan-and-complain about it. That's fine by me, you go be miserable if that's what you need.
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Old 19-11-2014, 19:05   #41
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@Ali Could you please shift all the discussion on scripting to a different thread? Its a topic without any real transparent info available and everyone has opinions. Reading the last few posts I am convinced that no party to this discussion will change their view. So, please if you think it right, shift the scripting talk to another thread maybe or rename this one instead. Thanks.
What? The OP's original post was all about scripting in the game and how it was ruining it for him...
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Old 19-11-2014, 19:23   #42
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What? The OP's original post was all about scripting in the game and how it was ruining it for him...
It was. But he was looking for ways to counter it, not asking if it was right or not. Also, more importantly, the title of the thread is 'Is anyone actually enjoying the game?'. I hope I am getting my point across properly because I am really out of practice on my English.
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Old 19-11-2014, 20:26   #43
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Well, the thread title doesn't really match the first post, so I'll change the title. @sabocat if you have any objections let me know.
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Old 19-11-2014, 20:32   #44
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So people say there is no scripting, then they wanna explain how to remove it or however. lol. Gotta keep an eye on this thread, its gettin funny.
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Old 19-11-2014, 20:36   #45
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PS4 version - Superstar

Now, answering this thread: It depend's.

I'm very dissapointed with some game aspects. Even when i was one of the most enthusiastic with the DEMO. The first one was the night lighting; once i saw it, i hit reallity. It's a long road...yet.

As that, another things appears while exploring the game:

Commentary It is really dissapointing thing to start your first match ever in this game with this going on. Just rip them off and start again!

Edition tools/Kits: Why Konami, why it is the same ******* thing? I want to create a decent uniform for my own ML team.

Stadiums: Why Konami, why again? You have more than that, are you gonna come on December and give us back the mising stadiums as they were new ones? Please don't, that could be a heart-breaker for me.

Coachs: All that teasing with coachs and you can't edit them so they appear at the edge of the field. It is always the same guy...

Myclub/Online: I had some good matches, i may accept that. But it is not the same game. The timing is very different. A first touch pass is almost an impossible thing to do sometimes. And you only can´t sign a good coach with golden coins? GUYS, someone!!? I hope the "finding people" problem it's solved at the end of this month, i can't play that "regular" CPU matches everytime, anymore.

Gameplay

- Some players stealing the ball from another in a better position/situation.
- Bad response to advanced thought passing. They made me miss loads of goals like this.
- Napoli is the black beast of scripting or my game went to the bad till the DEMO? Maybe winning almost all my games for more than 3 goals at La Liga matches spoiled it out! Napoli + Champions League = HELL itself.

About this last one, i still feed i need to play more, maybe there is another way...

Happily, I'm still having fun with the game in despite of all this...only time and my first ML will say...
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