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Old 04-05-2015, 11:48   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dundon's View Post
Nvidia > AMD regards GPUs much like Intel > AMD regards CPUs.
You're being far too simplistic there. For a start, Nvidia cards have a VRAM limitation - the implementation on the GTX 970 is a con but how do we know that the 960 isn't similarly hampered? It isn't a consideration for rebelinho in this instance as this it he 3.5GB + 0.5GB situation. Secondly, if we say the GTX 980 is better than the R9 290X this is reflected in the price. Thirdly, Nvidia drivers are just as bad as AMD drivers. The real weakness for me with AMD cards is the power consumption and heat generation but this isn't going to be an issue for everyone as for a lot of users this won't actually matter. For you and me it does though.


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Old 04-05-2015, 12:09   #17
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The real weakness for me with AMD cards is the power consumption and heat generation but this isn't going to be an issue for everyone as for a lot of users this won't actually matter. For you and me it does though.
It does matter to me. Even if the VTX3D R9 280 is just 185€ and the MSI Armor 960 OC is 200€, using the card 2 hours per day, the Nvidia GPU will be a better deal in just over 2 years. (using Portugal's electricity prices).

I'm 90% sure I'll pick the 960. I've always had good relationships with Nvidia stuff, and I can't say the same for AMD (or ATI). And reviews say (and show) that the stock 960 is better than the stock 280, so these specials won't fall far from this.

One last question? Will this setup last at least 5 years? Given my laptop GPU is 3 years old, it was a middle class card, and still runs pretty much everything I want, I'm inclined to say this 960 will last me a few good years. Do you agree?
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Old 04-05-2015, 12:25   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebelinho View Post
It does matter to me. Even if the VTX3D R9 280 is just 185 and the MSI Armor 960 OC is 200, using the card 2 hours per day, the Nvidia GPU will be a better deal in just over 2 years. (using Portugal's electricity prices).

I'm 90% sure I'll pick the 960. I've always had good relationships with Nvidia stuff, and I can't say the same for AMD (or ATI). And reviews say (and show) that the stock 960 is better than the stock 280, so these specials won't fall far from this.

One last question? Will this setup last at least 5 years? Given my laptop GPU is 3 years old, it was a middle class card, and still runs pretty much everything I want, I'm inclined to say this 960 will last me a few good years. Do you agree?
You can't calculate your electricity costs as simply as that either. The cards won't be running at 100% therefore you don't know exactly what wattage they will be using (50% performance doesn't equate to 50% of maximum wattage). The efficiency of the PSU comes into play as well. Power supplies have a range within which they work most efficiently, either side of that and they are less efficient.

I can't answer the five-year question because you don't know what type of games you'll be playing. That you won't be typically playing new PC games at high settings will obviously help you a great deal though.
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Old 04-05-2015, 12:57   #19
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Quote:
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You can't calculate your electricity costs as simply as that either. The cards won't be running at 100% therefore you don't know exactly what wattage they will be using (50% performance doesn't equate to 50% of maximum wattage). The efficiency of the PSU comes into play as well. Power supplies have a range within which they work most efficiently, either side of that and they are less efficient.
Yes, I know they won't be running all the time and not at full load, but assuming the worst case scenario... Either way I always prefered Nvidia. Let's say I can give 15 just for the brand change and less heat.

Quote:
I can't answer the five-year question because you don't know what type of games you'll be playing. That you won't be typically playing new PC games at high settings will obviously help you a great deal though.
I've posted them earlier, but the "you won't be typically playing new PC games at high settings" part sums it up well. I'm confident it will hold up well.

Thank you both for your help. For now I don't have any more questions.
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Old 04-05-2015, 17:28   #20
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You're being far too simplistic there.
Maybe Sweey but then there's the micro stutter that most AMD cards are hampered with along with the noise and heat like already brought up.

All that said there's a new fleet of AMD cards just around the corner so it might be worth waiting for the dust to settle on that before making a definite decision.
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Old 04-05-2015, 18:11   #21
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Maybe Sweey but then there's the micro stutter that most AMD cards are hampered with along with the noise and heat like already brought up.

All that said there's a new fleet of AMD cards just around the corner so it might be worth waiting for the dust to settle on that before making a definite decision.
Nvidia cards suffer from micro stuttering as well. Nvidia's dirty tactics of forcing high tesseltation on invisible textures to cripple AMD cards in some (not all) games is well documented.

AMD do need to make some serious improvements soon though and there appears to be a lot riding on BHM although the 300 series are mostly a refresh of the 200 series it seems.

If I had to buy one card now though, it would be the Titan Z for 1440p gaming

EDIT: ....and a new PSU to handle it
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Old 04-05-2015, 18:17   #22
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If I had the money, I'd buy them all just because I could

Updates on this: CPU will be a i5 4460, as the 4440 is out of stock.
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Old 04-05-2015, 21:00   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweey View Post
Nvidia cards suffer from micro stuttering as well. Nvidia's dirty tactics of forcing high tesseltation on invisible textures to cripple AMD cards in some (not all) games is well documented.

AMD do need to make some serious improvements soon though and there appears to be a lot riding on BHM although the 300 series are mostly a refresh of the 200 series it seems.

If I had to buy one card now though, it would be the Titan Z for 1440p gaming

EDIT: ....and a new PSU to handle it

Well Sweey you are the master here and I'm still the student so I'll take your word on that pal.

But the general word on the street is that Nvidia is the premium brand when it comes to graphics cards. I'd like to see AMD just give up on the CPU market and just concentrate on improving their GPUs, they've too may fingers in too many pies.

You speak the words Titan Z, surely you don't dare to Zlat?
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Old 11-05-2015, 11:29   #24
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The MSI Armor 960 is (probably) out of stock for good, so it is out of the list.

I found a R9 280X Gigabyte, used, for 195€. What should I be looking for in a used card? What are the most common issues and problems?
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Old 11-05-2015, 16:32   #25
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You want to see the card running on full load if possible. Then find out the temps but mostly how loud it runs, especially on idle.
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Old 11-05-2015, 16:45   #26
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Never had an issue with my Gigabyte 280x. Can be a little loud when running something very demanding on high/ultra settings though.
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Old 11-05-2015, 18:04   #27
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Absolutely everything to be honest. You want to fully test the card using an extreme benchmark, ensure temperatures during said test settle at a reasonable level and make sure the noise isn't ridiculous.
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Old 11-05-2015, 20:54   #28
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@rebelinho

On the subject of noise, have you factored that in at all? I know you mightn't think much about it now but trust me there's nothing nicer than a silent machine when you're only surfing the net or watching something.

On the other hand you mightn't give a shit about that side of things but if you do decide to look into it you're wanting so see if your motherboard supports a fan control setup and if it has 3 or 4 pin headers.( 4 pin = custom control levels, 3 = full speed all the time) Also some of the new 900 series Nvidia cards work on the basis that if they aren't been pushed they don't spin at all.
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Old 11-05-2015, 21:20   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dundon's View Post
You want to see the card running on full load if possible. Then find out the temps but mostly how loud it runs, especially on idle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweey View Post
Absolutely everything to be honest. You want to fully test the card using an extreme benchmark, ensure temperatures during said test settle at a reasonable level and make sure the noise isn't ridiculous.
If I happen to go to that GPU I'll see if it can be arranged. Which benchmark to you recommend Sweey?

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Originally Posted by Jonno394 View Post
Never had an issue with my Gigabyte 280x. Can be a little loud when running something very demanding on high/ultra settings though.
What do you consider loud? Hair dryer loud?

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Originally Posted by Dundon's View Post
@rebelinho

On the subject of noise, have you factored that in at all? I know you mightn't think much about it now but trust me there's nothing nicer than a silent machine when you're only surfing the net or watching something.

On the other hand you mightn't give a shit about that side of things but if you do decide to look into it you're wanting so see if your motherboard supports a fan control setup and if it has 3 or 4 pin headers.( 4 pin = custom control levels, 3 = full speed all the time) Also some of the new 900 series Nvidia cards work on the basis that if they aren't been pushed they don't spin at all.
I've only been using laptops so far, and they can make a bit of noise. Nothing that important though, with my headphones on it doesn't bother me at all.

Far Cry 3 is running on medium with 2xAA for 3 hours now, I have quite a few Opera tabs open, and while I'm wrtiting this, the radio is on. The fans can be heard, but I have to concentrate in order for it to be clear.

I'm certain a desktop will make much more fan noise, but it won't be something I'll take as vital when deciding a specific hardware.
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Old 11-05-2015, 22:34   #30
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If I happen to go to that GPU I'll see if it can be arranged. Which benchmark to you recommend Sweey?
Unigine Heaven is a decent one: https://unigine.com/products/heaven/

Also the basic (free) verrsion of 3DMark: http://www.futuremark.com/benchmarks/3dmark

Of course sometimes nothing beat some real world gaming but as the games you play will generally be far less demanding, this should be acceptable.
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