Psm3 thoughts on pes2010

[shaun7]

What the fuck does that have to do with anything said above?

Nothing.

We are talking about comparing Passing, keepers, and AI in both games, not just movement, in those aspects, fifa is pretty much ahead.

So stick to the questions, and dont be coming out with the same old post which doesnt make any sense given the context.

To confirm,

You said we shouldnt just judge the games on movement because its not fair, but on AI, passing, Keepers etc.

Well now we are judging the current games and prospective games on these critieria, so you either debate that, or hold your peace.

ps. As for the point about let's see, here's my point

no sane person is going to prefer a CPU automated, 8 directional game with less teams and less staduims,

when they can play a semi-manual/manual game, with 360 movement, more teams, more staduims, more players, more cups, and a vastly improved career mode.

Therefore, that kind of indicates the direction in which the PES series needs to go, rather than fucking around with untucked shirts and tactics gages.

Its called Logic.

One more thing about a comment you made "Graphics play a big part" lol.

Funny how when PES was by far the better game, but fifa had the graphics, the graphics didnt matter, now fifa is better, the graphics do matter.

I mean when you hear PES fans talk about great graphics, that alone tells you there is an issue with the series, seeing as the whole damn foundations of pes were gameplay and realism > graphics.

What? Fifa never had the graphics. Never. Not even on ps2. On ps1 it was better in graphics but from ps2 onwards, fifa never won in graphics. But the stadiums were always better.
As for the comparison. It was valid, but I wasn't referring to it with my last post. All I said was that you overrate fifa and underrate pes way too much.
Also graphics do play a big part in a game, but not as much as the gameplay
But I agree that it's more realistic than pes 09. But there other other things in fifa which annoy me too much too.
We just have to agree that for a ps3 (for what a ps3 can handle) pes 09 and fifa 09 were nothing.
If we look at some of the great games like GTA IV call of duty world at war, modern warefare,, etc... Pes and fifa 09 doesn't even compare in terms of everything. They are still good games though.

 

[Stormrider]

If you give players passing accuracy stats then hit and miss is the way it should be. Player stats play a small role but positioning and timing make a huge difference in Pes so no it's not like you say, just close your eyes and press X. Also the quickness at which you can peform them is a plus, allowing very nice 1-2s, triangles, 20 pass Arsenal style goals, you name it. Imo you got this one wrong cuz for me Pes 09 has the best passing in the series and I'm sure many will agree. Don't say Pes 6 had the best cuz it was good but far too effective in that one.

In real life the ball rarely floats like in Fifa. Only once in a while you'll see Cesc or Xavi chip pass a ball Fifa style, but in the game its like that every pass. The ball has to have lower projectory, more speed, and bigger error margin leading to a lot more balls going pass the line. The EA producer mentioned that they're slightly increasing the error margin in Fifa 10. I hope slightly means a noticeable difference :laugh: and hopefully they'll put some effort into fixing the projectory, pass speed, and crossing and Fifa will finally have a decent, realistic long ball for the 1st time.

 

[Tech_Skill]

If you give players passing accuracy stats then hit and miss is the way it should be..

No, in pes players have shooting accuracy, yet you yourself weight the shot with a powerbar, rather than a single button command. If you fill the bar, the ball will go high, you controlled that aspect, you dont press square once and cpu decides wether its a low or high shot.

 

[Stormrider]

No, in pes players have shooting accuracy, yet you yourself weight the shot with a powerbar, rather than a single button command. If you fill the bar, the ball will go high, you controlled that aspect, you dont press square once and cpu decides wether its a low or high shot.

It's not a power bar it's a height bar. It's a completely different situation compared to short passes which generally don't require any height. You just decide if you want a low shot or top corner but shot accuracy, player positioning, and other stats still mostly decide where it goes as even if you fill the bar with a good player it often goes low to med height.

Not every player should weight passes like Zidane and Riquelme, simple as. 1 reason why Fifa players have very little individuality.

 

[Tech_Skill]

It's not a power bar it's a height bar. It's a completely different situation compared to short passes which generally don't require any height. You just decide if you want a low shot or top corner but shot accuracy, player positioning, and other stats still mostly decide where it goes as even if you fill the bar with a good player it often goes low to med height.

Not every player should weight passes like Zidane and Riquelme, simple as. 1 reason why Fifa players have very little individuality.

I think its a bit of both to be honest, i dont believe the shooting bar in PES has no effect on power.

Is that what your saying?

 

[proevofan88]

@TEch

Come one man. I understand where you are coming from but you are talking like you have already played FIFA10.

About their managers mode: FIFA has always had more TEAMS, STADIUMS, SPONSORS, REAL CURRENCY, a BOARD, and so on. Those are not new.

The game is just VERY boring after a few a weeks.

Master League is by far the most fun sports mode. Taking a real team of default players and turning them into one of Europe's giants ( and going through the official competitions ) is more engrossing than anything that FIFAs MM can offer.

Again, not defending PES. I seriously hope that PES2010 is back to the good ole' days. But for now, we still havent had a football game that's better than PES5/6. ( and since you pointed out before about PES2009's poor reviews...check out the reviews of PES5: No football game has had a higher score and I doubt it will for a long time )

 

[Stormrider]

I think its a bit of both to be honest, i dont believe the shooting bar in PES has no effect on power.

Is that what your saying?

That's right. You can get a very powerful shot with 1/4 bar, which is basically a tap of the button. Power is determined by of course the stat as well as body position from the ball and favoured foot. This is why so many love Pes, the ball physics are just amazing and Fifa just doesn't compare in that department. No matter how much you hate Pes no one can deny that.

As for manual short passing Pes had it for the longest time now. Fifa was the one that actually had to adopt it only recently. You could also decide the desired shot placement but it doesn't always go where you intend which is good. There's also super cancel which Fifa adopted. Aside from choosing shot power for penalties, is there any other meaningful manual controls Fifa has that Pes doesn't?

 

[shankly is god]

yer i mean talking to tech you never kno that whole manual thing you crave may be in pes2010 but not copying fifa they may impliment on of there own if you get me..

 

[shaun7]

.
Again, not defending PES. I seriously hope that PES2010 is back to the good ole' days. But for now, we still havent had a football game that's better than PES5/6. ( and since you pointed out before about PES2009's poor reviews...check out the reviews of PES5: No football game has had a higher score and I doubt it will for a long time )

Pes 5 was the best football gmae. Considering the time it was out and that it wa sa ps2 game, no football game is better than that.

 

[Tech_Skill]

That's right. You can get a very powerful shot with 1/4 bar, which is basically a tap of the button. Power is determined by of course the stat as well as body position from the ball and favoured foot. This is why so many love Pes, the ball physics are just amazing and Fifa just doesn't compare in that department. No matter how much you hate Pes no one can deny that.

Not convinced that the shooting bar has '0' effect on shot power in PES, but yeah, its not something I can be arsed to drag out to be honest.

As for manual short passing Pes had it for the longest time now. Fifa was the one that actually had to adopt it only recently. You could also decide the desired shot placement but it doesn't always go where you intend which is good. There's also super cancel which Fifa adopted. Aside from choosing shot power for penalties, is there any other meaningful manual controls Fifa has that Pes doesn't?

As Ive been saying for months now, one of the most meaningful is the way fifa lets you weight passes yourself, short or through ball. And fifa's shooting can be completley manual where you control every single bit of power and direction ( I think) pes doesnt have that. Pes shooting is a glorfiyed version of assisted on fifa, semi manual shooting on fifa is a different ball game to shooting on pro, alot more difficult.

Honestly, Pes would be a ball for me these days, no thought needed on weight of pass, i just keep possession by mindlessy pressing x about 50 times, i can run through teams with R1 hammer shoot and get it on target, the challenge isnt there anymore unless the AI ramps up the cheating.

And please no one pretend this isnt the case, because thats the reason these internet noobs can pick up the game in a week and beat proper players by taking one player, twisting and turning till they get though the whole team, and shooting, that alone shows you how poor the game is, i dont think its even a bug, its just poor gameplay being exploited. Another thing in the pes is run run run shoot, pick up rebound, tap in. For me, thats not a challenge.

For linking up short passing games, its fifa > pes for me, weighing adds a new dimension to it.

 

[proevofan88]

Not convinced that the shooting bar has '0' effect on shot power in PES, but yeah, its not something I can be arsed to drag out to be honest.


As Ive been saying for months now, one of the most meaningful is the way fifa lets you weight passes yourself, short or through ball. And fifa's shooting can be completley manual where you control every single bit of power and direction ( I think) pes doesnt have that. Pes shooting is a glorfiyed version of assisted on fifa, semi manual shooting on fifa is a different ball game to shooting on pro, alot more difficult.

Honestly, Pes would be a ball for me these days, no thought needed on weight of pass, i just keep possession by mindlessy pressing x about 50 times, i can run through teams with R1 hammer shoot and get it on target, the challenge isnt there anymore unless the AI ramps up the cheating.

And please no one pretend this isnt the case, because thats the reason these internet noobs can pick up the game in a week and beat proper players by taking one player, twisting and turning till they get though the whole team, and shooting, that alone shows you how poor the game is, i dont think its even a bug, its just poor gameplay being exploited. Another thing in the pes is run run run shoot, pick up rebound, tap in. For me, thats not a challenge.

For linking up short passing games, its fifa > pes for me, weighing adds a new dimension to it.

Have to agree that FIFA 09 passing game ( for the most part ) is better than pes.

Not sure if people missed it or what....but PES2010 will have POWER BARS for passing... its been in one of the official press releases

 

[jameslv]

Not convinced that the shooting bar has '0' effect on shot power in PES, but yeah, its not something I can be arsed to drag out to be honest.


As Ive been saying for months now, one of the most meaningful is the way fifa lets you weight passes yourself, short or through ball. And fifa's shooting can be completley manual where you control every single bit of power and direction ( I think) pes doesnt have that. Pes shooting is a glorfiyed version of assisted on fifa, semi manual shooting on fifa is a different ball game to shooting on pro, alot more difficult.

Honestly, Pes would be a ball for me these days, no thought needed on weight of pass, i just keep possession by mindlessy pressing x about 50 times, i can run through teams with R1 hammer shoot and get it on target, the challenge isnt there anymore unless the AI ramps up the cheating.

And please no one pretend this isnt the case, because thats the reason these internet noobs can pick up the game in a week and beat proper players by taking one player, twisting and turning till they get though the whole team, and shooting, that alone shows you how poor the game is, i dont think its even a bug, its just poor gameplay being exploited. Another thing in the pes is run run run shoot, pick up rebound, tap in. For me, thats not a challenge.

For linking up short passing games, its fifa > pes for me, weighing adds a new dimension to it.

PES has manual passing its on the right anolugue u just have to master it and u get full freedom i love it, but i wouldnt mind if it was used with x like fifa, or the option to turn it on or off

 

[Lugash]

But then there's the whole debate of realism vs fun.

Yes there is Kevin, yes there is. I've been saying this for ages, that there is a point where a game that is too realistic kills the fun, and FIFA is teetering on the edge of the cliff of realism, ready to fall to its death on the rocks of awkward and overly-complicated gameplay.

Not sure if people missed it or what....but PES2010 will have POWER BARS for passing... its been in one of the official press releases

That's a huge selling point for me, I think its the one area of gameplay in which FIFA is miles ahead.

 

[Tech_Skill]

Not sure if people missed it or what....but PES2010 will have POWER BARS for passing... its been in one of the official press releases

You got a link for that? I missed that bit

 

[jameslv]

You got a link for that? I missed that bit

This hasnt been confirmed by konami or psm3

 

[Hunter]

I can't remember seeing a statement about passing power bars, I think it's a given that we'll see power bars for the penalties now as Konami have announced a new penalty system. Hopefully we'll see passing power bars though as they're a good idea, I still don't believe FIFA executed it to perfection as quite a lot of the time the actual differences in the power bar don't make a noticeable difference to the ball speed. Still though, FIFA got it generally right and it's a step in the correct direction for both games.

As for shooting though, I honestly couldn't say FIFA's is better in any way, shape or form. Passing yes, game speed yes, but definitely not shooting. Of course this is purely opinion, but rarely being able to score from outside the box, and a distinct lack of powerful shots don't make for exciting gameplay for me. Not only that, a lot of the shots in FIFA09 are pre-programmed and scripted, in the sense that they'll go in the exact same areas as that of previous shots (I hit the exact same shot in the Arena ten times in a row upon trying).

I think PES will nail the shooting system this year as long as they make the power bar more significant, in PES2009 it only takes a tap of the power bar before the ball potentially rises above the bar.

 

[Kevthedrummer]

Having bought PSM3, and read the artcile, they seem to be a bit harsh on Konami for making a slower paced more difficult game...... Is it me or is this the core of the PES we used to know and love?? They said that they have done away with the arcadish style, and that seemed to be presented as a negative..... so for that reason I now don't trust the opinions and views of PSM3.

 

[shaun7]

^I didn't read it but it seems that psm3 are unreliable.

I can't remember seeing a statement about passing power bars, I think it's a given that we'll see power bars for the penalties now as Konami have announced a new penalty system. Hopefully we'll see passing power bars though as they're a good idea, I still don't believe FIFA executed it to perfection as quite a lot of the time the actual differences in the power bar don't make a noticeable difference to the ball speed. Still though, FIFA got it generally right and it's a step in the correct direction for both games.

As for shooting though, I honestly couldn't say FIFA's is better in any way, shape or form. Passing yes, game speed yes, but definitely not shooting. Of course this is purely opinion, but rarely being able to score from outside the box, and a distinct lack of powerful shots don't make for exciting gameplay for me. Not only that, a lot of the shots in FIFA09 are pre-programmed and scripted, in the sense that they'll go in the exact same areas as that of previous shots (I hit the exact same shot in the Arena ten times in a row upon trying).

I think PES will nail the shooting system this year as long as they make the power bar more significant, in PES2009 it only takes a tap of the power bar before the ball potentially rises above the bar.

Excactly my opinion.

 

[Tech_Skill]

Having bought PSM3, and read the artcile, they seem to be a bit harsh on Konami for making a slower paced more difficult game...... Is it me or is this the core of the PES we used to know and love?? They said that they have done away with the arcadish style, and that seemed to be presented as a negative..... so for that reason I now don't trust the opinions and views of PSM3.

Can any fucker post this article up here so i can read it, i dont fancy buying PSM3.

You know they Sponsored Konami in the past I think?

Someone post that shit up here, I wanna see it.

 

[Hunter]

Can any fucker post this article up here so i can read it, i dont fancy buying PSM3.

You know they Sponsored Konami in the past I think?

Someone post that shit up here, I wanna see it.

As far as I'm aware mate, any direct quotes, photo scans or c/p'ing of the articles could potentially lead to lawsuits. I think WinningElevenBlog have been warned about it, as well as PESFan and ourselves I believe. Even if someone posts up the scans, I'm afraid we'd have delete upon realising. It makes sense though considering PSM3 are a business and posting up scans would be robbing them of potential buyers.

If they have indeed seemingly responded negatively to Konami's new change of direction for the game, then I hope it doesn't affect the overall reviews of the game. As long as I enjoy it, that's all that should matter, but I don't want "hype" being the rise and fall of games thesedays, quite like FIFA09. It's a good game, but I've heard too many people say silly things such as labelling it "the best football game ever" and whatnot - no it's not, it's just a great FIFA effort. I thoroughly enjoyed FIFA97 more to be perfecetly honest, but that's not here nor there.

With Konami going back to Xbox servers, and seemingly adopting a more classic old paced and thoughtful game I can genuinely say I'm looking forward to it. Considering pre-ordering it from Shopto since they have a special price on for £29.85 - quite like they did with UFC I believe.