Absolutely jaw-droppingly bad

[richmiffy]

Made a decision after last years car crash that I wouldnt pay top money for a PES game again, so I didnt purchase on release day and pretty much forgot about it (despite having bought every PES since ISS days, the standard dropped so badly that I gave up on on it).
Well, seeing the price drop on PS store to £18 and the fact that I had just finished RDR2 I thought I might as well give it one last chance. I am afraid I can not fucking believe that Konami have the absolute brass balls to release this stinking pile of shit in this day and age.
You can forget about the lack of licenses, the PS1 menu screens, the commentary that is still so bad it makes you laugh, the continuously pointless pop up menus with only one option to move on to the next screen (just fucking skip it, I dont need to know that youve "backed up the option file"), forget the outrageous loading times, forget that when I start a game its sounds like my PS4 is going to explode despite the fact that the game looks like its been drawn in crayon, forget ALL that and lets focus on the gameplay.
What a complete fucking disaster. The scripting (yes I called it scripting, for that is what it is. Dont worry that "Konami have yet to confirm scripting" because that is irrelevant. John Travolta hasnt confirmed he's gay but that is just as obvious as PES scripting) has now shed all pretense that it isnt happening by going balls-to-the-wall obvious. There is not one shred of randomness in the game anymore, which is exactly what made it so good back in the day, and now does exactly what it wants, when it wants. Konami is playing the game. You may sit there with a controller in your hands but you have effectively paid money to NOT play a game.
Skill and stats and now absolutely irrelevant. It doesnt matter if you have Messi in you Team or on the oppositions, or if youre a good player or just picked it up for the first time, fast players will be caught with ease by slow ones, short players will out-jump and physically bully bigger players, collisions and physical contact is not even a competition anymore (the ball would drop to the feet of AI players whilst your players knock the ball to the opposition and are automatically pulled out of position).
Defense is a lottery where your players either move away from the ball or take instructions to man-mark as more of a suggestion than an order, attacking is a complete cluster-fuck of being marked by defenders so tightly that they actually occupy the same pixels on screen to seeing your 90 rated striker twat the ball continually wide from inside the 6 yard box (something which one of mine did 7 times in a single game).
In conclusion, the game is shit, total non-enjoyable laughable shit. This is even more frustrating when you know the games engine is great yet the gameplay appears to have been programmed by people who haven't watched a game of football in their lives (just look at the shite that is the refereeing in games. Not had a penalty since around 2014).
Everyone do themselves a favour and boycott the game from now on. Bollocks.

 

[Antonyc1977]

Ouch!

I think there are many others who feel the same. There have been some adjustments to the gameplay since its release, so I'm glad you didn't play PES 2019 a couple of months back.

There's an underlying element which controls the gameplay and its scripting (in Master League) called "Heart".
Basically, your players run faster, pass better, defend stronger, shoot faster and more accurately once the players like playing for your club.

This can take up to 3x seasons of continuous playing with the same players to get your Team Spirit up to 90+ out of 100.

Here's my guide to enjoying PES... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYKr7mV3Ljg&t=74s

 

[richmiffy]

Which pretty much confirms my point. You are not so much having a direct impact on decisions within matches, more moving along a track predetermined by the game.
For all a new player knows they could have pulled off a cracking bit of play which SHOULD have resulted in an advantage to them, yet as the game has decided "no, you dont do that now/yet" they will never know that. They will not have learned or enjoyed the process at all, they will have simply been taken on a ride with the illusion of control.
Someone name me another mainstream game (for that is what PES is. It can cry and beg forgiveness for not having the financial clout of FIFA, but with a following as big and loyal as it has seen over the years it needs to take responsibility for the end product) where your input is ignored in-game. Imagine the brain-blowing that would happen if COD addicts watched on as the game made decisions for them. I wonder how successful the Uncharted/GTA franchises would be if the independence of choice and action was taken away from those games.
There is no excuse for this. You talk of 3 continuous seasons of play (equivalent to 18 solid hours of play) to reach a balance of input to result, I just wonder how many of the younger gamers have fucked off to similar games (FIFA) after losing patience with this.
In this day and age of intuitive play and absolute quality that studios turn out (and lets remember we are talking about Konami here, not some penniless group of friends programming from their bedrooms), then this should be wholeheartedly rejected by consumers. It is garbage and should not be considered otherwise.

 

[Antonyc1977]

Which pretty much confirms my point. You are not so much having a direct impact on decisions within matches, more moving along a track predetermined by the game.
For all a new player knows they could have pulled off a cracking bit of play which SHOULD have resulted in an advantage to them, yet as the game has decided "no, you dont do that now/yet" they will never know that. They will not have learned or enjoyed the process at all, they will have simply been taken on a ride with the illusion of control.
Someone name me another mainstream game (for that is what PES is. It can cry and beg forgiveness for not having the financial clout of FIFA, but with a following as big and loyal as it has seen over the years it needs to take responsibility for the end product) where your input is ignored in-game. Imagine the brain-blowing that would happen if COD addicts watched on as the game made decisions for them. I wonder how successful the Uncharted/GTA franchises would be if the independence of choice and action was taken away from those games.
There is no excuse for this. You talk of 3 continuous seasons of play (equivalent to 18 solid hours of play) to reach a balance of input to result, I just wonder how many of the younger gamers have fucked off to similar games (FIFA) after losing patience with this.
In this day and age of intuitive play and absolute quality that studios turn out (and lets remember we are talking about Konami here, not some penniless group of friends programming from their bedrooms), then this should be wholeheartedly rejected by consumers. It is garbage and should not be considered otherwise.

You speak a lot of sense.
You're right, the mainstream PES Fans have tolerated this "Heart" element of the gameplay - which in theory is quite a good thing for people who like a challenge.
But this isn't the best way to attract the new generation of PES fans. How would they know that they'd have to play for 3 days straight to suddenly find the game gets better?

I think the most logical thing for Konami to have done, was to offer the OPTION of "Heart Mode" at the start of a new campaign.

Thing is, I have laid into Konami and the PES franchise over the past couple of years, and quite frankly, I'm sick of sounding like a whinge bucket.

Recently I came across this Twitter Account: [MENTION=212832]sug[/MENTION]gestionsPES where I ripped into this account for its content.
Their emphasis for improving the PES Series is to:
"Give the camera men shadows"
"The Press Officers need Hi-Vis Jackets".
They blocked me in the end as I became quite abusive. The problem is, it's this tripe which gets fed back to Konami rather than the real pressing issues which one day will kill the PES series.

 

[richmiffy]

You're absolutely right. I log into these community forums to see if maybe I'm just the only one suffering when I "play" the game, instead I am met with thread after thread of "New faces/kits/downloads/", as if those are the things which need addressing!
Heart is just a poor excuse for pre-decided management of what could be a very enjoyable game. I personally dream of the days when accumulated fatigue was my biggest concern when it came to PES. PES2019 promotes itself as a "simulation" when in reality it is actually the furthest thing from that. It is not like real-life, it is not like the game we love to watch on weekends, it is not enjoyable, it is not football. It is shit, and the most frustrating thing is that it simply does not need to be. In essence the engine is there for brilliant game-play, and it has been discarded in favour of keeping online games competitive for a longer duration.
I agree with you when you say Heart should be made optional, it would solve many of this games problems.

 

[maciejb]

It's not predetermined, but it is hard. I found it so frustrating that I destroyed a controller! Then I realised that I needed to change tactics in response to the game e.g. dropping deep and playing on the counter; introducing pacey subs; changing the team shape to counter man marking; playing on the wings, or through the centre to counter the opposition defensive strategy. It makes victory and success way more satisfying.

When I think about it now, it's like Man Utd under Mourinho Vs the same team under Solskjaer. You have to adapt!

 

[Antonyc1977]

It's not predetermined, but it is hard. I found it so frustrating that I destroyed a controller! Then I realised that I needed to change tactics in response to the game e.g. dropping deep and playing on the counter; introducing pacey subs; changing the team shape to counter man marking; playing on the wings, or through the centre to counter the opposition defensive strategy. It makes victory and success way more satisfying.

When I think about it now, it's like Man Utd under Mourinho Vs the same team under Solskjaer. You have to adapt!

To an extent I agree. But... it's a double edged sword. If you change your tactics each game, your players Heat Map (Tactics Familiarity) won't improve. The only way your players adapt to your set tactics is if they continue to play the same way each game.

Sometimes my team rating is 85+, then I change tactics or formation and the team rating drops down to 60+?. It takes up to three seasons to get a 98+ team rating.
So I can't keep changing things up. Each game I'd probably win, but the whole experience will be nothing short of frustrating and a grind.

For the record... when anyone reaches 100 Tactical Team Rating, the whole game is joy! It's completely different game and no where near as scripted as when you start out on a 40+ Rating.

 

[richmiffy]

Thank god for the "skip match" option, that's all I can say.