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defending is hard on top player level, help pls

optimistic

Registered User
hello, there

you guys made some good points in previous disscussions like getting
your defenders well organized at the back to stop skillful opposition strikers from putting away goals or a pinpoint accurate through pass incoming in front the goal in pes 2011.

well.... , for me, defending well is the most difficult part on top player
level in this game. sometimes the opposition attackers set up some kind of unthinkable accurate throuth passes which will certainly result in opponent striker having a straight 1 on 1' with my goalie, in these situations, there are not much you can do to prevent the opponent from scoring a goal. sliding tackling from behind and give away a penalty
and being sent off, or press triangle to let my goalie out will all need a lot of luck to stop opponent scoring. especially if you play against spain or liverpool on top player in your first encounter with them and their forms are red up, the bloody incoming through balls from your opponents will be rushing to your half like heavy rain, the worst bit is: there always seem to be so much space between your defenders and the opponent striker after the through passes, sliding tackle will not even reach the striker's feet, what can you do? i must say fernando torres at those occations plays like " the scripting master ", hmm, he has to score to give you the biggest challenge ever, that s**t pisses me off big time, i think no other players like that, but it is definitely a big bother for most pes lovers. I dont really believe a lot of good pes players can win against these tough teams like spain, juventus, barcelona in their first encounter with them on top player level, if they do win those first hard encounters, well, they need a hell of luck and opponents mistakes to the last victory.

defending is surely my most serious issue in the game, and frankly i can eventually find a way to score goals, but defence wise i just cant find a consistent solution to stop throught passes, handle the spaces effectively between my defenders and opponent strikers and deal with
1 on 1 situations.

sorry for my english, any good suggestions and advices about defending will be appreciated and welcomed

thanks
 

danzine

Registered User
you need to learn to let the computer press with (square on ps3 or X on xbox) , and then control a player yourself who will ghost/ follow the attack from getting the ball.


you can just read the play the computer only ever attacks in a certain number of ways after a while you will get used to it, and move one of your players to intercept the ball.


While letting the computer press (square on ps3 or X on xbox) the oposition player with the ball, it takes quite alot of matches to get used to doing this, hell it may take you until pes12 to mater it but it will come with practsie.
 

optimistic

Registered User
thanks for your reply and tips

you need to learn to let the computer press with (square on ps3 or X on xbox) , and then control a player yourself who will ghost/ follow the attack from getting the ball.


you can just read the play the computer only ever attacks in a certain number of ways after a while you will get used to it, and move one of your players to intercept the ball.


While letting the computer press (square on ps3 or X on xbox) the oposition player with the ball, it takes quite alot of matches to get used to doing this, hell it may take you until pes12 to mater it but it will come with practsie.

well, thanks

i am on ps3, and will try square button to pressurize the opponents and intercept the through balls, i will also learn and pay special attention to the oppositon attacking patterns more to defend better,

cheers
 

Gravy

Registered User
Go back to 2010 and your problems will be solved! simple

People who say that just haven't learnt how to play 2011 stuck in the ways of old pro evo. Yes its harder to tackle and defend but its easier to attack too. Its not like you can't tackle or close players down its just a different method of doing so.
 

iamcanadianeh

Registered User
I would say it's not as much a matter of button pressing as it is of tactics.

With regards to pressuring though, I choose to control the player making the direct tackle and the cpu controls the shadowing player. Obviously this works well for me anyway, since the CPU not challenging me is a major major problem to be honest (not being cocky, just saying that obviously I know how to defend well if I am finding the game way too easy on top player and rarely getting scored on).

Anyway, for tactics, I think there are 2 keys.

1. Pressure - applying pressure in the right parts of the pitch to win the ball back early, and not pressuring too aggressively if they get it into your final third. Also, the best defense is a good offense, so against the AI on top player I basically pressure the CPU very aggressively except as I was saying in the final 3rd. I win it back more times than not early and so they end up with very little posession, or what posession they have ends quickly or around the halfway line. Pressure needs to be appropriate though. Tactics wise I'm set up compact and with high pressure (15), but my tactics change slightly like I'm saying depending on where the ball is on the pitch. Basically this means holding and manipulating square plus run (xbox) until I'm in the final third so that two players are rushing the ball, then reducing this to x so that it's only one player in my own third. Otherwise if you hold the two-player pressure all the time you can be opening up gaps in your back line.

2. Tactics -- All I can say is play around with the setting until you find what works. The height of your back line is of course important, in combination with the choice to use offside trap or not. Also, the players you're using - are they fast enough (including response, acceleration, etc)? Do they have "DEF" as their attack/defence bias or are they "BAL"? I find DEF much better. And... Lastly I think the bigest thing is the actual attack/defense levels you are using in the match. I prefer to set this on manual so I can bring players into the attack for things like corners or if I need a goal badly. Also, I don't exactly like the auto settings because even if you choose defensive your players push up to top pressure level towards the end of matchs, leaving you exposed when you may not need/want to be. A good test to prove to yourself how effective these settings are is simply to play a match with defensive or super defensive as your setting (or, like I said use manual and turn the pressure down) and see how well you defend compared to playing with offensive as your setting. I think it makes the biggest difference, and that a lot of people misunderstand how important it is. In fact, when people describe "AI scripting" I find they are often talking about the ways in which these setting work, but they fail to understand them. Once you understand them and use them, the scripting just turns into control, and you realize you weren't really playing the full game by not using tactics to their full effect.

That's my opinion only of course, sorry if it offends anywone.

PEACE
 

S-D-P

Registered User
Simple advice is to not rush in, close down the options and force the AI to be creative. Use the analog to position yourself in front of the attacker especially effective when trying to win the ball, its also crucial to time your tackles dont just hold down the pressure button. To win headers in the air, hold the RB button and use the analog to move your player as this allows you to position your player and win more aerial challenges.
 

Gravy

Registered User
1. Pressure - applying pressure in the right parts of the pitch to win the ball back early, and not pressuring too aggressively if they get it into your final third. Also, the best defense is a good offense, so against the AI on top player I basically pressure the CPU very aggressively except as I was saying in the final 3rd. I win it back more times than not early and so they end up with very little posession, or what posession they have ends quickly or around the halfway line. Pressure needs to be appropriate though. Tactics wise I'm set up compact and with high pressure (15), but my tactics change slightly like I'm saying depending on where the ball is on the pitch. Basically this means holding and manipulating square plus run (xbox) until I'm in the final third so that two players are rushing the ball, then reducing this to x so that it's only one player in my own third. Otherwise if you hold the two-player pressure all the time you can be opening up gaps in your back line.

2. Tactics -- All I can say is play around with the setting until you find what works. The height of your back line is of course important, in combination with the choice to use offside trap or not. Also, the players you're using - are they fast enough (including response, acceleration, etc)? Do they have "DEF" as their attack/defence bias or are they "BAL"? I find DEF much better. And... Lastly I think the bigest thing is the actual attack/defense levels you are using in the match. I prefer to set this on manual so I can bring players into the attack for things like corners or if I need a goal badly. Also, I don't exactly like the auto settings because even if you choose defensive your players push up to top pressure level towards the end of matchs, leaving you exposed when you may not need/want to be. A good test to prove to yourself how effective these settings are is simply to play a match with defensive or super defensive as your setting (or, like I said use manual and turn the pressure down) and see how well you defend compared to playing with offensive as your setting. I think it makes the biggest difference, and that a lot of people misunderstand how important it is. In fact, when people describe "AI scripting" I find they are often talking about the ways in which these setting work, but they fail to understand them. Once you understand them and use them, the scripting just turns into control, and you realize you weren't really playing the full game by not using tactics to their full effect.

That's my opinion only of course, sorry if it offends anywone.

PEACE

Pretty much spot on and the same methods i use, learning when and how to apply pressure as well as blocking/ keeping an eye on opposition running off the ball is probably the most important thing to me regardless of tactics. For example using pressing extensively high up the pitch when possible. You can usually win the ball back high up the pitch in most cases. Obviously if your getting countered and you have runners overlapping I usually shut the ball carrier down myself with a midfielder getting behind the ball and don't apply any pressure allowing your defence to get back and cover runs.
 

optimistic

Registered User
thanks for your suggestions from all of u

I would say it's not as much a matter of button pressing as it is of tactics.

With regards to pressuring though, I choose to control the player making the direct tackle and the cpu controls the shadowing player. Obviously this works well for me anyway, since the CPU not challenging me is a major major problem to be honest (not being cocky, just saying that obviously I know how to defend well if I am finding the game way too easy on top player and rarely getting scored on).

Anyway, for tactics, I think there are 2 keys.

1. Pressure - applying pressure in the right parts of the pitch to win the ball back early, and not pressuring too aggressively if they get it into your final third. Also, the best defense is a good offense, so against the AI on top player I basically pressure the CPU very aggressively except as I was saying in the final 3rd. I win it back more times than not early and so they end up with very little posession, or what posession they have ends quickly or around the halfway line. Pressure needs to be appropriate though. Tactics wise I'm set up compact and with high pressure (15), but my tactics change slightly like I'm saying depending on where the ball is on the pitch. Basically this means holding and manipulating square plus run (xbox) until I'm in the final third so that two players are rushing the ball, then reducing this to x so that it's only one player in my own third. Otherwise if you hold the two-player pressure all the time you can be opening up gaps in your back line.

2. Tactics -- All I can say is play around with the setting until you find what works. The height of your back line is of course important, in combination with the choice to use offside trap or not. Also, the players you're using - are they fast enough (including response, acceleration, etc)? Do they have "DEF" as their attack/defence bias or are they "BAL"? I find DEF much better. And... Lastly I think the bigest thing is the actual attack/defense levels you are using in the match. I prefer to set this on manual so I can bring players into the attack for things like corners or if I need a goal badly. Also, I don't exactly like the auto settings because even if you choose defensive your players push up to top pressure level towards the end of matchs, leaving you exposed when you may not need/want to be. A good test to prove to yourself how effective these settings are is simply to play a match with defensive or super defensive as your setting (or, like I said use manual and turn the pressure down) and see how well you defend compared to playing with offensive as your setting. I think it makes the biggest difference, and that a lot of people misunderstand how important it is. In fact, when people describe "AI scripting" I find they are often talking about the ways in which these setting work, but they fail to understand them. Once you understand them and use them, the scripting just turns into control, and you realize you weren't really playing the full game by not using tactics to their full effect.

That's my opinion only of course, sorry if it offends anywone.

PEACE

hello iamcanadian:

thanks for your info, those are useful, you seem to be a very experieced pes player, some questions to ask you

who are shadowing players?, give me some examples pls

regarding tactics, could you tell me how to ajust attack/defence level?

which attack/defence level do u think will be most effective, in details pls

thx a lot
 

optimistic

Registered User
hello iamcanadian:

thanks for your info, those are useful, you seem to be a very experieced pes player, some questions to ask you

who are shadowing players?, give me some examples pls

regarding tactics, could you tell me how to ajust attack/defence level?

which attack/defence level do u think will be most effective, in details pls

thx a lot

oh, i forget to ask u, how do i turn on/off offside trap?

thanks
 

iamcanadianeh

Registered User
hello iamcanadian:

thanks for your info, those are useful, you seem to be a very experieced pes player, some questions to ask you

who are shadowing players?, give me some examples pls

regarding tactics, could you tell me how to ajust attack/defence level?

which attack/defence level do u think will be most effective, in details pls

thx a lot


Shadowing players is a term that a previous poster in this thread made up to describe the second player who is chasing the ball carrier when you are defending. I believe that poster has the buttons listed wrong though. For xbox 360 the button to use woudl be square, this makes two of your players close down on the ball carrier. If you're not doing this, just trying to win the ball back with one player, then that might be your whole problem right there. So, in other words, when holding square you will be controlling one player who is trying to win the ball back, but there will also be another cpu controlled player who will try to help you, essentially shadowing you.

Don;t get me wrong though, you don't just hold square and everything happens for you. You need to be carefully controlling the player who you are in direct control of. Remember that in this year's version there are three modes for defending (three ways to control the player you are using when defending).

1.) hold the pressure button and no direction (or square if you are pressuring with two players - in general I tend to hold square, plus X plus run when applying high pressure, might as well hold them all the way I see it). Holding these buttons or just X or whatever and no direction will result in your player applying medium pressure, essentially closing down ont he ball carrier and maintaining a medium distance between you and them.

2.) Hold whatever button or combination of pressure buttons and towards the ball carrier. This will essentially cue your player to tackle the ball carrier and try to steal it back. This must be well timed, not just always holding towards the player and trying to tackle all the time (although this high pressure approach works not bad to be honst).

3.) Hold your pressure button and the direction stick away fromt he ball carrier. This will put more distance between you and the ball carrier. This is more effective against really dangerous players like Messi. Back off a bit and he will be unlikely to be able to beat you with the dribble. With this you still maintain control of the situation, it's not like you have backed way off and are no longer covering the player, you've just intentionally backed off to wait for him to make a poor movement, at which point you jump in with the tackle, or guide him out of bounds or whatever. When I used to play we used to call this "jockeying," basically taking a good position thus not allowing him to do what he wants, which is to burn you when you jump in at the wrong time.

Regarding attack/defense levels on the 360 this is done by pressing back/select and the right bumper to increase it or the right trigger to decrease it. WHen you do this you will see a bar in the bottom of the screen move up towards red (top pressure) or down towards blue (defensive). Think of this as equivalent to the pressure when defending. Do you jump in with high pressure or back off and try to keep all the gaps covered. This also majorly affects your offense though. I find this is more critical to gameplay this year than the last few, in fact it can even be hard to score if you have things set to blue/defensive. High pressure/red however can have benefits to how quickly you wint he ball back.

All I can say is what I do, which is start with mid pressure and adjust on the fly during the game. FOr corners or free kicks I always turn the pressure to max/red, even though I know this means that if they get a quick counter I might be exposed at the back. If I'm winning I might adjust it differently than if I'm losing.

To have manual control over these settings you need to get into the screen where you adjust the different strategies for different time periods of the game, then click on the auto settings button which is also where you choose to use offside or not. In there you select attack defense preferences and set it to off. Any of the other choices will mean that you can't control the levels manually, whcih I really dislike personally. I'd just rather leave them at the middle setting than allow the AI to decide when I'm going to appply high pressure or play defensively.
 

optimistic

Registered User
Shadowing players is a term that a previous poster in this thread made up to describe the second player who is chasing the ball carrier when you are defending. I believe that poster has the buttons listed wrong though. For xbox 360 the button to use woudl be square, this makes two of your players close down on the ball carrier. If you're not doing this, just trying to win the ball back with one player, then that might be your whole problem right there. So, in other words, when holding square you will be controlling one player who is trying to win the ball back, but there will also be another cpu controlled player who will try to help you, essentially shadowing you.

Don;t get me wrong though, you don't just hold square and everything happens for you. You need to be carefully controlling the player who you are in direct control of. Remember that in this year's version there are three modes for defending (three ways to control the player you are using when defending).

1.) hold the pressure button and no direction (or square if you are pressuring with two players - in general I tend to hold square, plus X plus run when applying high pressure, might as well hold them all the way I see it). Holding these buttons or just X or whatever and no direction will result in your player applying medium pressure, essentially closing down ont he ball carrier and maintaining a medium distance between you and them.

2.) Hold whatever button or combination of pressure buttons and towards the ball carrier. This will essentially cue your player to tackle the ball carrier and try to steal it back. This must be well timed, not just always holding towards the player and trying to tackle all the time (although this high pressure approach works not bad to be honst).

3.) Hold your pressure button and the direction stick away fromt he ball carrier. This will put more distance between you and the ball carrier. This is more effective against really dangerous players like Messi. Back off a bit and he will be unlikely to be able to beat you with the dribble. With this you still maintain control of the situation, it's not like you have backed way off and are no longer covering the player, you've just intentionally backed off to wait for him to make a poor movement, at which point you jump in with the tackle, or guide him out of bounds or whatever. When I used to play we used to call this "jockeying," basically taking a good position thus not allowing him to do what he wants, which is to burn you when you jump in at the wrong time.

Regarding attack/defense levels on the 360 this is done by pressing back/select and the right bumper to increase it or the right trigger to decrease it. WHen you do this you will see a bar in the bottom of the screen move up towards red (top pressure) or down towards blue (defensive). Think of this as equivalent to the pressure when defending. Do you jump in with high pressure or back off and try to keep all the gaps covered. This also majorly affects your offense though. I find this is more critical to gameplay this year than the last few, in fact it can even be hard to score if you have things set to blue/defensive. High pressure/red however can have benefits to how quickly you wint he ball back.

All I can say is what I do, which is start with mid pressure and adjust on the fly during the game. FOr corners or free kicks I always turn the pressure to max/red, even though I know this means that if they get a quick counter I might be exposed at the back. If I'm winning I might adjust it differently than if I'm losing.

To have manual control over these settings you need to get into the screen where you adjust the different strategies for different time periods of the game, then click on the auto settings button which is also where you choose to use offside or not. In there you select attack defense preferences and set it to off. Any of the other choices will mean that you can't control the levels manually, whcih I really dislike personally. I'd just rather leave them at the middle setting than allow the AI to decide when I'm going to appply high pressure or play defensively.

i see, thanks a lot, i think now i know where i can make changes about tactics.
 

kurnitb

Registered User
I'd like to just add to the tactics (totally 100% agreed to iamcanadianeh), basically apart from keeping a distance from those runners and the highly skillful attackers, you could protect your fullback by Man marking them using a DMF (defensive midfield) but make sure your DMF have a capable skill in marking them. Hope it helps.
 
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