PES 2012 News, Screenshots & Videos [Index In First Post]

[Amateur]

for me the gameplay is the worst it has ever been and that's the most important part, so all the other area's, game modes may be interesting, polished and improved but when the whistle sounds and the game begins its just sh**.
so at the moment PES is just like FIFA and that is terrible.
on second thought maybe not because they are trying to imitate FIFA so they are on the right track, sucks for me though.

Agreed. I think PES11 showed just how important "fluidity" and "presentation" are, because a lot of people who hated on FIFA09 and FIFA10, started saying that PES11 was similar to FIFA09 as if that was something positive.

As far as I'm concerned, where it matters the most, the game is utter bullshit. I'm not even talking about the so called "basics" that people refer to as, cursor switching, goalkeepers, AI, etc. I'm talking about the actual basics, which are outdated and boring regardless of how good or how bad the AI or Cursor Switching is.

It no longer is about EA Sports offering the casual video game and Konami offering the hardcore video game; it's about which game is less dumb, since both are incredibly casual. Konami and EA Sports have settled down for the same thing: pick up and play video games with little to no substance underneath all the graphics.

I'm just hoping a third party shows up sooner rather than later.

 

[S-D-P]

@Amateur

Although we have completely different opinions on pes 2011 I will be interested to hear your thoughts on 2012(if you buy the game) I hope the series returns some joy for you, if not I'm sure you'll let us know.

Really looking forward to seeing the new AI, with the sublime manual passing options 2011 offered this could really open up the game.

 

[Dean Richmond]

PES 2011 was by far the best pro evo in the series, and if they improve on that then they cant go to far wrong in my opinion.

just for me, a few improvements, some of which are confirmed already

- penalties
- referees
- shooting (maybe)
- AI

 

[Amateur]

@Amateur

Although we have completely different opinions on pes 2011 I will be interested to hear your thoughts on 2012(if you buy the game) I hope the series returns some joy for you, if not I'm sure you'll let us know.

Really looking forward to seeing the new AI, with the sublime manual passing options 2011 offered this could really open up the game.

Really. The bottom line is very simple. Jon Murphy: "You can put the pad down and see your team's movement as individuals."

The fact that you can put your pad down and see how the game plays itself. It's the type of video game that I would have enjoyed right after PES6. Therefore not the type of video game I would enjoy in 2012. After experiencing what PES10 offered, I cannot genuinely enjoy a footy sim where I cannot bend the script of the game to function in accordance to what I want.

Long story short, it's difficult to be excited about PES12 because the main flaw of PES is the lack of user input, and when you can put the pad down and see your team's movement as individuals, it sounds like lack of user input remains a problem.

 

[S-D-P]

Really. The bottom line is very simple. Jon Murphy: "You can put the pad down and see your team's movement as individuals."

The fact that you can put your pad down and see how the game plays itself. It's the type of video game that I would have enjoyed right after PES6. Therefore not the type of video game I would enjoy in 2012. After experiencing what PES10 offered, I cannot genuinely enjoy a footy sim where I cannot bend the script of the game to function in accordance to what I want.

Long story short, it's difficult to be excited about PES12 because the main flaw of PES is the lack of user input, and when you can put the pad down and see your team's movement as individuals, it sounds like lack of user input remains a problem.

I have to admit that concerned me, some of the automatic AI interventions in pes 2011 are fucking awful, for example unselected players challenge for headers which makes corners feel pre determined.

 

[Bish]

Really. The bottom line is very simple. Jon Murphy: "You can put the pad down and see your team's movement as individuals."

The fact that you can put your pad down and see how the game plays itself. It's the type of video game that I would have enjoyed right after PES6. Therefore not the type of video game I would enjoy in 2012. After experiencing what PES10 offered, I cannot genuinely enjoy a footy sim where I cannot bend the script of the game to function in accordance to what I want.

Long story short, it's difficult to be excited about PES12 because the main flaw of PES is the lack of user input, and when you can put the pad down and see your team's movement as individuals, it sounds like lack of user input remains a problem.

You might be reading too much into that ''put the pad down'' statement. It could just mean when you're not focusing on the gameplay, as if you're watching a game on TV and not following the ball.

I have my fair share of skepticism myself, but I quite like what I've heard so far.

 

[Amateur]

You might be reading too much into that ''put the pad down'' statement. It could just mean when you're not focusing on the gameplay, as if you're watching a game on TV and not following the ball.

I have my fair share of skepticism myself, but I quite like what I've heard so far.

Perhaps, though I don't think I am reading too much into it. I'm talking about the lack of very simple yet very fundamental improvements that would add considerable depth and substance into the game.

Like for example: off the ball movement in accordance to the position of the ball.

By holding the L2 button + tapping the short passing button, when in possession of the ball: as a result, a selected midfielder, will run towards the position of the ball wherever the ball is positioned.

The pressure applied on the L2 button, at the time that you pressed and released the short passing button, would determine the speed at which the target will run towards the position of the ball.

Such a simple addition, would not fix any of the core flaws, but it would be a fine addition to have considering the considerable depth it would add to the gameplay. Then adding a simple ground rule, such as, only having the ability of using it twice per play, therefore making it impossible to exploit or over-use. Thus adding depth and substance into the game.

If you had to hold the L2 button + tap the short passing button, in order to manually dictate the script of the game, then it would be impossible to put the pad down and observe how the game plays itself. But we know that's not the case, because the type of improvements that Konami likes, are the type of improvements that you do not control; hence why you can put the pad down and observe how great the game is at playing itself.

The only improvements that we get are completely automatic: improved AI. Which is completely automatic and out of our hands. That's the only type of improvement that we see and that's why I do not think that I'm reading too much into the "put the pad down" statement.

Lack of user input is the main problem with PES11 and FIFA11. What is Konami doing about it? Improving the AI and making it an overall more automatic experience.

How difficult can it be to implement the following off the ball feature: off the ball movement in accordance to the script.

By pressing and releasing the L2 button (without the assistance of the short passing button) when in possession of the ball: the user would dictate the script that would determine the off the ball movement of just one individual.

How difficult is it really?

To design a script composed of three sequences: first sequence, Xavi Hernandez moves from the middle of the pitch to the right flank of the pitch; second sequence, Xavi Hernandez moves from right flank of the pitch to the middle of the pitch; third sequence, Xavi Hernandez moves from the middle of the pitch to the lef flank of the pitch.

First sequence, start at Point A and finish at Point B. Second sequence, start at Point B and finish at Point C. Third sequence, start at Point C and finish at Point D. After the user looses possession of the ball, the individual would automatically move back into Point A.

The first sequence of the script: would be manually triggered by pressing and releasing the L2 button for the first time, when in possession of the ball.

The second sequence of the script: would be manually triggered by pressing and releasing the L2 button for the second time, when in possession of the ball.

The third sequence of the script: would be manually triggered by pressing and releasing the L2 button for the third time, when in possession of the ball.

And the pressure sensitive L2 button would determine the speed at which the target moves through each sequence, there would be three speed settings: the target could move from Point A to Point B at slow pace, the target could move from Point B to Point C at medium pace, and the target could move from Point C to Point D at fast pace.

Therefore the user would have manual control over when and where the target moves without the ball, and the user would also have manual control over the speed at which the target moves without the ball. And this level of depth and freedom would be possible by simply pressing and releasing the L2 button.

That sounds very easy to do and it would be a massive improvement in terms of user input. Yet Konami is incapable of such improvements, for whatever the reason.

Jon Murphy: "We don't want everyone, it's not about that - we want the front runners, the opinion formers, the players who tell their friends "you've got to check out PES this year". We want to bring them back, and I think we can."

That's a very nice thing to read. But the truth is, with the minor changes that Konami is doing, I do not think "opinion formers" will go back to PES because PES12 is awesome; I think it's more a case of FIFA12 is horrible, let's give PES12 a try.

PES12 will be a good game for the people who enjoy PES11, on the other hand, the people who are looking for something different will be disappointed yet again. That's my two cents on PES12 and on the genre as a whole.

 

[Typho2k]

mhm

I actually think fifa 04 had that feature where you pressed a button, then three of your front players would be highlighted, and you could press the button again to switch between em and use the right analogue stick to make them run exactly where you wanted. One of the most perfect things i ever saw in a football game..

back to pes 12.

with ai being smarter, making players give you support and do smart runs, it might get more automated, but i also get more options now since the players dont hide away from my passes... this all sounds very nice to me, cant wait to try play like barca when demo comes out and see if it works, and if it's too easy or not doable or whatever..

 

[Amateur]

I actually think fifa 04 had that feature where you pressed a button, then three of your front players would be highlighted, and you could press the button again to switch between em and use the right analogue stick to make them run exactly where you wanted. One of the most perfect things i ever saw in a football game..

Although cool for its time, that was flawed. I'm talking about something that would be much more substantial.

back to pes 12.

with ai being smarter, making players give you support and do smart runs, it might get more automated, but i also get more options now since the players dont hide away from my passes... this all sounds very nice to me, cant wait to try play like barca when demo comes out and see if it works, and if it's too easy or not doable or whatever..

It's a matter of opinion. In my opinion, automated gameplay is boring and outdated, period. It's a pick up and play video game where the AI tells you what to do.

 

[shaun7]

I cannot see the automatic part in that statement. I mean the AI has to move by itself in order for you to pass to them. I mean players moving into open spaces. I think that's what they meant.

 

[abu97]

Yeah, when players move to spaces, they drag defenders with them as they have tto mark them giving you options for you dribble, shoot, pass or shoot.
And this game won't be abou thorugh balls this time!

 

[OnlyProEvo]

I need a nice image of the new square nets for some soft porn, konami keep teasing me with snippets but I want full on nets uncensored:w00t

Is this good enough for you?

http://www.onlyproevolutions.com/2011/05/nets-issue-has-been-fixed-for-pes-2012.html

 

[RAMAXWY]

Although cool for its time, that was flawed. I'm talking about something that would be much more substantial.



It's a matter of opinion. In my opinion, automated gameplay is boring and outdated, period. It's a pick up and play video game where the AI tells you what to do.

i think you are hanging towards a much more manual game were everything and really everything is done by the gamer or i am understanding it wrong.
i myself just really want a simulation were really every player is an individual in a team and brings his own thing to that team and you are limited to adjusting them to your liking by his stats or abilities.
i mean i want dani alves to play as he plays and even if you instruct him to go fully defensive he still will occasionally go a.w.o.l cause its in his d.n.a, his nature and imprinted cause of the stats so if you really want to go all defensive you will have to replace players like him for others suiting that formation or tactic.
that to me is how a simulation should be.
the challenge in every game is to be able to counter the way teams play by eliminating their biggest threat.
another challenge is that you will not be able to take every team and play with them in the way you like or are used to because they don't have certain players or lack the abilities.
so i am really looking forward to PES 2012 cause if they really nail this; to let the players operate like individuals in a unit, they will take simulation to a higher level because FIFA you can't even see the difference in players nor can u feel it.
in PES we can all feel it as soon as we get control of the player but to even spot the behavior,runs and mentalities without having to trigger them manually is gonna be great.
you just have to get to know your players just like a real teammate or coach in a team to realize what you can expect, how you can use them effectively and just be on the lookout on game day for your master plan to fall into place or keep adjusting until it does.
we all know that building a great team doesn't happen overnight so i just don't want PES to become a game which gives you the option to have everything fall into place just by pushing a button.
the all manual thing is already being done by the other game so lets keep PES a simulation were the surprises keep you coming back for more.
there is a reason why most get bored of FIFA in a few months and sometimes weeks because u just get the feeling like you've seen it and done it all before but with PES everything should stay fresh in every match.
if they nailed this i can understand why Jon Murphy is so sure they will blow the competition away this year with gameplay.
lets just hope it isn't a marketing stunt like we are used to from FIFA.(and KONAMI as of late)

 

[S-D-P]

Is this good enough for you?

http://www.onlyproevolutions.com/2011/05/nets-issue-has-been-fixed-for-pes-2012.html

Thank you that was highly arousing.

 

[OnlyProEvo]

Haha, you're welcome!

 

[Amateur]

I cannot see the automatic part in that statement. I mean the AI has to move by itself in order for you to pass to them. I mean players moving into open spaces. I think that's what they meant.

I know what they meant, I just think that type of game is outdated. In real football, in one play, the players who actually touch the ball, more often than not range from 2 to 5 players; with PES and FIFA, all the players move, and you can easily play ping pong by passing the ball all over the pitch.

You can easily run through the midfield without even thinking, because the AI automatically dictates everything for you: outdated and flawed.

The AI has to move itself in order for you to pass the ball, but that does not mean that the AI needs to do whatever it wants, which is what happens with PES11 and FIFA11. My point is simple, the AI should move in accordance to what you want, and you should manually dictate when the AI moves in accordance to your instructions.

In order to do that, the game needs to automatically lock itself, in order to give you full control over the game: you would have control over two players, the ball carrier, and a midfield player moving without the ball.

The midfield player without the ball, would be controlled by simply pressing and releasng the L2 button. Pressing and releasing the L2 button would trigger off the ball movement in accordance to the script: the script would be designed by yourself, and would be composed by numerous sequences.

The first sequence of the script would be triggered by pressing and releasing the L2 button for the first time since you got hold of the ball: as a result, the midfield target would move from Point A to Point B. Point A and Point B could be any position on the pitch.

The second sequence of the script would be triggered by pressing and releasing the L2 button for the second time since you got hold of the ball: as a result, the midfield target would move from Point B to Point C.

Therefore pressing and releasing the L2 button would trigger the script sequence by sequence. The L2 button would also determine the speed at which the midfield target would move from Point A to Point B, from Point B to Point C, from Point C to Point D, etc, etc.

One center forward would also move in accordance to a one sequence script. The one sequence script would not be manually triggered by the user; instead, the one sequence script would trigger itself automatically in accordance to the L2 script. For example, the center forward would move from Point A to Point B, six seconds after the first sequence of the L2 script.

In order to make it easier for the user, there would be little clock on the edge of the screen, which would count the seconds that have passed since you had possession of the ball. For example, if ten seconds have passed since you got hold of the ball, then the little clock would say "10", and if you trigger the first sequence of the L2 script when the clock was at "12", and you know that the center forward will move from Point A to Point B ten seconds after the first sequence of the script, then you know that when the little clock hits "22" the center forward will move from Point A to Point B.

That fixes the complaints of "AI Cheating" because the center forward would never move in accordance to the whims of a computer, instead, the center forward would move in accordance to your specifications. Which can sound trivial, but would make a massive difference to the game.

So controll over one individual (the midfield target), gives you control over numerous individuals (center forward), which is what PES11 and FIFA11 do not offer.

I'm not talking about complicated right analog stick gimmicks, I'm not talking about manually controlling two players at the same time, I'm talking about something very simple: left analog stick to controll the ball carrier, press and release the L2 button in order to dictate the rest of the game, simple.

A third character, perhaps a second stricker or an attacking midfielder, could also automatically move in accordance to a one sequence script. For example, the second stricker will move from Point A to Point B, one second after the third sequence of the L2 script is triggered.

The second stricker script would not be like the center forward script nor like the midfielder script: the off the ball movement of the second stricker would revolve around the position of the midfield target. Meaning that Point A could be any space on the pitch, but Point B would need to be much more speficific.

For example, Point A could be a space on the right flank, that space on the right flank would not change regardless of the position that the midfield target occupies. On the other hand, Point B would need to be a space localized at precisely eight feet of distance between the second stricker and the midfield target, therefore Point B could be many spaces, depending on the movement of the midfield target.

Therefore, again, controll over one individual (the midfield target), gives you control over numerous individuals (center forward and second stricker), which is what PES11 and FIFA11 do not offer, because you only have control over one individual: the ball carrier. And as a result the ball carrier is merely a puppet, since the AI determines what the ball carrier can do with the ball.

The user would have the ability of changing the script of the midfielder, the script of the center forward, and the script of the second stricker, without the necessity of pressing the pause button nor the select button. The midfielder, the center forward, and the second stricker, would each have a total of six scripts from which to choose from.

Then you implement some ground rules into the game, in order to make it impossible for the use to exploit or over-use the scripts. It would only be possible to change the script when not in possession of the ball. The script of the midfielder, can only be changed three times per half. Thus adding improtance to the managerial or tactical aspec of the game.

On the other hand, the script of the center forward and the script of the second stricker, would be unlimited.

Then on top of that, you implement an additional feature: off the ball movement in accordance to the position of the ball.

Off the ball movement in accordance to the position of the ball, would be specifically reserved for midfielders only. By pressing (without releasing) the L2 button + pressing and releasing the short passing button: a target in the midfield will run towards the position of the ball, wherever the ball might be.

Off the ball movement in accordance to the position of the ball, would be designed to complement with off the ball movement in accordance to the script. It would be possible to dictate off the ball movement in accordance to the position of the ball, a maximum of two times per play: before the first sequence of the midfielder script and after the first sequence of the midfielder script.

If done before the first sequence of the L2 script, then the L2 script can still work after you dictated off the ball movement in accordance to the position of the ball. On the other hand, when used after the first sequence of the L2 script, then the L2 script will not work until you loose possession of the ball and gain possession of the ball once again.

Of course, such an off the ball system would require a complete overhaul on the defensive end. The L2 script that is used on the attacking end, would also be a benefit for the defensive end of the game, because the computer would know what the ball carrier intends to do, and therefore the computer can be competent on the defensive end without the necessity of AI stunts such as the "Fabio Cannavaro catching up with Cristiano Ronaldo" balancing act.

Again. I'm not talking about complicated right analog stick gimmicks, I'm not talking about manually controlling two players at the same time, I'm talking about something very simple: left analog stick to controll the ball carrier, press and release the L2 button in order to dictate the rest of the game, simple.

With PES and FIFA you do not get the type of freedom that I'm talking about, because in PES and FIFA the AI does whatever it wants, and at the end of the day, that is the biggest flaw with PES and FIFA: the lack of user input, as a result of the complete and utter control the AI has over the game.

A better system for cursor changing, better AI, better GKs, better animations, better graphics, will do nothing to improve the lack of user input. Which is why, at the end of the day, a lot of people will complain about PES12 being "too easy" or about "AI cheating", because better AI will determine what the ball carrier can do with the ball.


PS -- This rant was not meant to be offensive, just making myself clear, that's all.

 

[Typho2k]

orrrr

ooooorrr you could just play online 11vs11 for no more ai cheating!















naww.. just kiddin

 

[shaun7]

@Amateur. Although you are not wrong I cannot say I agree.
Let me explain.
Everything manual including player movements would lose individuality so the fun in the transfers would be gone.

Although we should have a more manual movement, we still shouldn't decide how the player moves exactly, leave that up to the stats. Otherwise every player will be the same.

So in the end I want a game that's semi automatic, where you decide what you want, and the game gives it to you according to the team's stats.

 

[Amateur]

@Amateur. Although you are not wrong I cannot say I agree.
Let me explain.
Everything manual including player movements would lose individuality so the fun in the transfers would be gone.

Although we should have a more manual movement, we still shouldn't decide how the player moves exactly, leave that up to the stats. Otherwise every player will be the same.

So in the end I want a game that's semi automatic, where you decide what you want, and the game gives it to you according to the team's stats.

I am a big fan of player individuality, which is why I was such a big fan of the PS2 versions of PES; I cannot see neither how nor why everything manual would produce an adverse effect on the player individuality.

I am 100% sure that more control over the game would only increase the player individuality.

Example: an average center forward would give a very OBVIOUS indication just before he runs from Point A to Point B, thus making it very easy for the defender to read the game. On the other hand, a world class center forward would not give any OBVIOUS indication about anything, therefore making it more difficult for the defender to read what the center forward will do.

Example: average midfielder CANNOT move in certain ways, average midfielder CANNOT move at certain times. On the other hand, Xavi Hernandez can move in an unlimited range of directions, Xavi Hernandez can move at any given time.

That is player individuality applied on the tactical end of the game; the same thing that determines technical attributes such as passing, dribbling, and shooting, can easily be applied on the tactical abilities of the players.

That level of depth does not exist neither in PES nor FIFA. So I could easily say that player individuality is shit in PES, simply because player individuality does not exists in terms of tactical ability.

What you are saying is something that I completely disagree with. So if Xavi Hernandez is an intelligent player, he should do intelligent things without my input?

Therefore, making it virtually impossible to, as a manager, make incorrect use of an intelligent player. Therefore completely undermining the tactical end of the game, completely undermining my footballing brain, since an intelligent player will always react intelligently because that's what the "team play" stat says.... I disagree with that.

If Lio Messi is a great dribbler, he should dribble past three defenders without my input? No. He should simply have more tools than the average player, but he shouldn't automatically dribble past three players regardless of how shit you are at playing the game.

Anyways. I completely disagree with you, I think your point is very negative and outrageously simplistic: "semi-automatic" is just another word for "scripted", and I think scripted gameplay is outdated. I think tactical stats and technical stats should determine the range of things that each player is capable of, however, I do not think stats should determine how I use the stats.

I respect your opinion, but your argument about "every player will be the same" does not make any sense to me.

So in the end I want a game that's semi automatic, where you decide what you want, and the game gives it to you according to the team's stats.

That is impossible. You cannot decide what you want when everything you do is predetermined by a script that you have zero control of.

Statistics can and should decide how good the player is at moving without the ball; however, in a video game where the gamer is in control of the entire team, statistics SHOULD NOT decide *when* the statistics work, because doing such a thing, not only undermines the ability of the gamer, but it also undermines the player individuality.

When I sign Samuel Eto'o, I expect a fast player who can run past defenders; yet in PES11, regardless of the fact that statistically Samuel Eto'o is a very fast player, somehow, slow defenders such as Fabio Cannavaro can actually catch up with Samuel Eto'o after Samuel Eto'o ran past them. That sounds like the computer decides to undermine the stats.

When I sign Samuel Eto'o, I expect him to at least run when it is obvious that he should run; but that does not happen in PES11. In PES11 Samuel Eto'o becomes a dumb zombie *when* the computer decides that Samuel Eto'o should be a dumb zombie, regardless of the fact that the statistics say that Eto'o should be a tactical genius. That's what happens when the game gives it to you according to the team's stats.

What's the point of having Samuel Eto'o when the computer can decide that Eto'o will make the run a little too late this time or a little too early that other time, only to watch how the very same computer decides that an average center forward will move at the right time and will score a goal as a result.

That's how the computer makes it possible for an average team to attack once and score once, and for a world class team to attack countless of times with no end result. Because the computer decided that the world class team would have dumbed down center forwards, and the computer decided that the average team would have Romario as the center forward.

That's scripted gameplay. That's what happens in many occasions when you play PES11 and FIFA11. I think it is an outdated concept precisely because it CANNOT fundamentally improve, it can only improve in terms of visuals and in terms of gimmicks, but not fundamentally.

 

[abu97]

When I sign Samuel Eto'o, I expect a fast player who can run past defenders; yet in PES11, regardless of the fact that statistically Samuel Eto'o is a very fast player, somehow, slow defenders such as Fabio Cannavaro can actually catch up with Samuel Eto'o after Samuel Eto'o ran past them. That sounds like the computer decides to undermine the stats.

.

Yes but if you sign messi, you wouldn't expect a slow midfielder like park ji sung to catch up with him even though this happened in the uefa cl final