PES11: no on-the-fly strategies, a superficial game.

[Amateur]

Dear Konami,

Why did you eliminated the L2 STRATEGIES which could be used without the necessity of pausing the game?

I was looking forwards to PES11, but this decision has disappointed me very much; I strongly disagree with the direction in which PES11 is taking things.

Football is first and foremost, a tactical game, when you have a video game which is played from a wide view perspective.... you need to have an on-the-fly strategies system.

The L2 STRATEGIES that PES10 used were outdated and needed to be replaced, but the fact that you replaced the L2 STRATEGIES with an impractical system which requires you to pause the game....

Has convinced me, that perhaps, I over-estimated your ability; I do not like the new PES11 because it has no depth were it matters the most, I feel Konami has replaced the substantial for the superficial, and I'm just one disappointed fan, I'm sorry to say.

Perhaps I have outgrown football gaming, I was expecting more substance were it matters, considering the potential of current gen consoles like the PS3; but clearly, PES is heading in a "fun" and superficial direction.

You have lost a long time fan with PES11, I cannot play a Football Simulation without on-the-fly strategies, it feels too automatic and scripted without on-the-fly strategies; and at the end of the day, why play a video game which will insult your intelligence as opposed to entertain your intellect?

PES 2011,

A game that was marketed as "engineered for freedom" and yet, it has so much freedom, that it does not allows me to dictate formation changes without the necessity of pausing the game: it insults my intelligence.

If I could do it in PES10? Why is it that I cannot do it in PES11? Surely, it contradicts the whole idea of "freedom".

With PES10, I could dictate my own script without the necessity of pausing the game; with PES11, I am forced to follow a COM dictated script.

It's funny, because by taking the L2 STRATEGIES concept which PES10 used, and breaking it and replacing it with something more simple, more accessible, and more versatile: that would have been brilliant.

But instead, Konami replaced the L2 STRATEGIES with a new tactical system which requires the user to pause the game; it is an impractical and outdated system, because it forces the user into pausing the game, thus making it a predictable strategy which will interfere with the action and flow of the game.

You improve one area of the game WITHOUT actually replacing the concept by which everything revolves, and consequently, the core issues will automatically transfer themselves from one area to another; unfortunately, the area that took the blow this time.... was the very feature that kept me interested in PES games.

If this is "engineered for freedom" -- then I do not want the "freedom" that you are selling to me: the inability of dictating formation tweaks without pausing the game... is not freedom.

Despite its many limitations, with PES10, the L2 STRATEGIES gave me the alternative, the choice, of playing Football; on the other hand, with PES11, despite the progress in terms of passing, I cannot play Football when I play PES11: it is restricted by a superficial and automatic concept.

PES 2011: "engineered for freedom"

An obvious wide view perspective ping pong game, where the very essence of football is neglected, and replaced with cheap tricks and thrills.

Clearly, PES11 is not for me.

 

[Amateur]

PES11: an outdated game with no on-the-fly strategies

PES 2011: "engineered for freedom"

Why did Konami eliminated the L2 STRATEGIES which could be used without the necessity of pausing the game?

I was looking forwards to PES11, but this decision has disappointed me very much; I strongly disagree with the direction in which PES11 is taking things.

Football is first and foremost, a tactical game; when you have a video game which is played from a wide view perspective.... you need to have an on-the-fly strategies system.

The L2 STRATEGIES that PES10 used were outdated and needed to be replaced, but the fact that Konami replaced the L2 STRATEGIES with an impractical system which requires you to pause the game....

Has convinced me, that perhaps, I over-estimated Konami; I do not like the new PES11 because it has no depth were it matters the most, I feel Konami has replaced a substantial area of the game, with cheap tricks and thrills.

A game that was marketed as "engineered for freedom" and yet, it has so much "freedom" that it does not allows me the ability of dictating critical formation tweaks without the necessity of pausing the game: it insults my intelligence.

If I could do it in PES10? Why is it that I cannot do it in PES11? Surely, it contradicts the whole idea of freedom.

With PES10, I could dictate my own script without the necessity of pausing the game; with PES11, I am forced to follow a COM dictated script.

It's disappointing, because by taking the L2 STRATEGIES concept which PES10 used, and breaking it and replacing it with something more simple, more accessible, and more versatile: that would have been brilliant.

But instead, Konami replaced the L2 STRATEGIES with a new tactical system which requires the user to pause the game; it is an impractical and outdated system, because it forces the user into pausing the game, thus making it a predictable strategy which will interfere with the action and flow of the game.

Konami improved passing but did not changed the core concept which sustains every area of the game, as a consequence, the L2 STRATEGIES have been eliminated.

When you improve one area of the game without actually replacing the core concept, the core issues will automatically transfer themselves from area to another; this time, the area that paid the price, was the L2 STRATEGIES which could be dictated without the necessity of pausing the game; yet another case of two steps forwards, two step backwards.

It contradicts the "freedom" bullshit..... when they continue eliminating important features: the L2 STRATEGIES was THE best feature in PES10........... and PES11 eliminated that feature. It defeats the whole idea of "freedom".

Basically, PES 2011 is an obvious ping pong game, and has replaced a substantial area of the game with cheap tricks and thrills.

If this is "engineered for freedom" -- then I do not want the "freedom" that Konami is selling to me: the inability of dictating formation tweaks without pausing the game... is not freedom.

Despite its many limitations, with PES10, the L2 STRATEGIES gave me the alternative, the choice, of playing Football; on the other hand, with PES11, despite the progress in terms of passing and other areas, I cannot play Football when I play PES11: it is restricted by an insubstantial and automatic concept.

PES11 is a shit game; FIFA11 is a shit game; a shame no website and no magazine has mentioned the fact that you cannot dictate formation tweaks without pausing the game.

Yet magazines are not paid to tell you something you don't want to hear; yet websites and forums are filled with massive fan boys with little to no clue.

Just goes to show, that almost nobody has a clue as to how a Football Sim should play, that almost nobody appreciated the potential of the L2 STRATEGIES: that almost nobody knows how football should be played from a wide view perspective......

When the PS4 comes out, if it comes out, I will not waste my money on it: it is abundantly clear, that video games are getting more stupid by the year.

PES11 and FIFA11: overly complicated controls, barely any content were it matters the most; dumb video games with complicated controls, same old formula with a new "engineered for freedom" or "personality+" propaganda.

Smart or dumb AI? A redundant argument, when the foundation on which it stands is crumbling.

PES 2011: "engineered for freedom"

An obvious wide view perspective ping pong game, where the very essence of football is neglected, and replaced with cheap tricks and thrills.

Clearly, not my cup of tea.

 

[Passaralho]

PES 2011: "engineered for freedom"

Why did Konami eliminated the L2 STRATEGIES which could be used without the necessity of pausing the game?

I was looking forwards to PES11, but this decision has disappointed me very much; I strongly disagree with the direction in which PES11 is taking things.

Football is first and foremost, a tactical game; when you have a video game which is played from a wide view perspective.... you need to have an on-the-fly strategies system.

The L2 STRATEGIES that PES10 used were outdated and needed to be replaced, but the fact that Konami replaced the L2 STRATEGIES with an impractical system which requires you to pause the game....

Has convinced me, that perhaps, I over-estimated Konami; I do not like the new PES11 because it has no depth were it matters the most, I feel Konami has replaced a substantial area of the game, with cheap tricks and thrills.

Konami improved passing but did not changed the core concept which sustains every area of the game, as a consequence, the L2 STRATEGIES have been eliminated.

When you improve one area of the game without actually replacing the core concept, the core issues will automatically transfer themselves from area to another; this time, the area that paid the price, was the L2 STRATEGIES which could be dictated without the necessity of pausing the game; yet another case of two steps forwards, two step backwards.

It contradicts the "freedom" bullshit..... when they continue eliminating important features: the L2 STRATEGIES was THE best feature in PES10........... and PES11 eliminated that feature. It defeats the whole idea of "freedom".

Basically, PES 2011 is an obvious ping pong game, and has replaced a substantial area of the game with cheap tricks and thrills.

PES11 is a shit game; FIFA11 is a shit game; a shame no website and no magazine has mentioned the fact that you cannot dictate formation tweaks without pausing the game.

Yet magazines are not paid to tell you something you don't want to hear; yet websites and forums are filled with massive fan boys with little to no clue. Just goes to show, that nobody has a clue as to how a Football Sim should play, considering it is played from a wide view perspective.......... and as such, should not be as obvious and as breakable as PES11 and FIFA11.

When the PS4 comes out, if it comes out, I will not waste my money on it: it is abundantly clear, that video games are getting more stupid by the year.

PES11 and FIFA11: overly complicated controls, barely any content were it matters the most: dumb video games with complicated controls, same old formula with a new "engineered for freedom" or "personality+" propaganda.

Smart or dumb AI? A redundant argument, when the foundation on which it stands is crumbling.

PES 2011: "engineered for freedom"

An obvious wide view perspective ping pong game, where the very essence of football is neglected, and replaced with cheap tricks and thrills.

Clearly, not my cup of tea.

Are you sure about what you are stating regarding 'L2' strategies?... I think you're wrong...

 

[Steev09]

instead of pressing L2, press select

 

[Sminky]

For the most part I agree with you. My displeasure towards PES2011 has been well documented on this site but I do disagree from the perspective of the magazines. The independent gaming magazines are more than happy to call it as it is. If they feel it plays crap then they will call report that it is crap. PES2009 got absolute pelters in the written media and rightly so, it was garbage.

As a huge football sim fan I know how I want the game to play - more interactive. The technology probably doesn't exist to realise this though ... yet.

I do miss the days of user friendly football sims and management games. You can have detailed content but it shouldn't require a button mashup to activate it.

Good piece by the way, pretty much encapsulates about how I feel about the game but I do think truly variable AI would certainly improve the walls to the straw foundation it currently sits upon.

 

[Sminky]

instead of pressing L2, press select

There is 3 parts to the formation settings that govern team shape and it needs refining. I find the strategies work against my other settings effectively ignoring them.

EDIT: Double posting gaffe.

 

[Makavelian]

instead of pressing L2, press select

,

 

[Amateur]

Are you sure about what you are stating regarding 'L2' strategies?... I think you're wrong...

I hope I am wrong, believe me so, I would like to be wrong on this one. But reading some comments, a few people have said that it was moved from the L2 button, to the SELECT button.

And the SELECT button is, simply, not a practical choice. I hope I am wrong because I was really looking forwards to PES11.... but after learning some cool tricks with the L2 STRATEGIES, I simply cannot see myself going back to the old habit of following the COM dictated script.

So, I hope I am wrong, because this is a critical area of the game. If anybody knows anything about this, please inform myself about how the L2 STRATEGIES work in PES11.



EDIT -- is the SELECT button an accessible button?



Answer: NO............... SELECT is NOT an accessible button, it is very impractical, it is truly unbelievable how Konami managed to fuck the one thing that PES10 was doing right.

On a positive note, at least it is possible; hopefully the Custom Settings A and Custom Settings B are still in the game.

But, again, is the necessity of releasing the left analogue stick in order to press the SELECT button: is the necessity of releasing the left analogue stick not a PAUSE?

As far as I'm concerned, it is a PAUSE, because it INTERFERES with the action and flow of the game; which makes it an impractical and non-accessible feature.

The point of the thread remains intact: you need to PAUSE the game if you want to dictate formation tweaks. That sucks, Konami fucked the one thing that PES10 was doing right.

For the most part I agree with you. My displeasure towards PES2011 has been well documented on this site but I do disagree from the perspective of the magazines. The independent gaming magazines are more than happy to call it as it is. If they feel it plays crap then they will call report that it is crap. PES2009 got absolute pelters in the written media and rightly so, it was garbage.

As a huge football sim fan I know how I want the game to play - more interactive. The technology probably doesn't exist to realise this though ... yet.

I do miss the days of user friendly football sims and management games. You can have detailed content but it shouldn't require a button mashup to activate it.

Good piece by the way, pretty much encapsulates about how I feel about the game but I do think truly variable AI would certainly improve the walls to the straw foundation it currently sits upon.

Good comments,

I think I am one of the hugest football geeks you will find in any website, and as such, I have noticed how certain essential mechanics of real life football are completely neglected in video games; simple mechanics which could be easily simulated, are neglected by PES and FIFA.

PES11 and FIFA11 have a lot of stupid controls, to cover up how stupid the game actually is.

Konami and EA Sports have, conveniently, created the misconception that simple controls = arcade, and that complicated controls = simulation.

That is absolute bullshit, in truth, complicated and impractical controls = a dumb and insubstantial arcade game, that needs overly complicated controls to make it more of a challenge than it should be.

The defensive system is incompetent in the truest sense of the word; the dribbling and man-marking system, comes all the way from the Famicom Era, the Famicom Era started in 1985, still going today.

Famicom Era: direct the left analogue stick WITHOUT the assistance of a SPRINT button.... and this will be enough to cover spaces of over 100 feet of distance.

In other words, you can run without the assistance of a running button; can you imagine passing the ball without the assistance of a passing button?

The left analogue stick determines:

1st -- HOW you run with the ball,

2nd -- WHEN you run with the ball,

3rd -- DISTANCE COVERED with the ball,

This is a massive Famicom Era problem.... which should have been fixed by now; three entirely different areas attached to one button.... a massive problem, a massive restriction however you look at it.

If by directing the right analogue stick WITHOUT the assistance of a PASSING button: the right analogue stick determined the DIRECTION of the pass, the TIMING of the pass, and the POWER of the pass.

Do you think PASSING would feel restrictive?

Well, this is what is currently happening with dribbling and man-marking, it is restricted by the old Famicom Concept or whatever you want to call it.

A proper Football Sim should have simpler and more accessible controls, and more substance were it matters; the substance will make it difficult and challenging even though the controls are easy to use.

But for this to happen, you need to make better use of the left analogue stick, and you need to have a substantial and precise dribbling and man-marking system.

And PES11 and FIFA11, do not have a substantial and precise dribbling and man-marking system. Variable AI or smarter AI is not such a massive game changer, when the foundation on which it stands is dumb and outdated.

Konami and EA Sports keep adding and taking away, yet the concept remains the very same outdated concept.... which is why you play PES5 and then play PES11 or FIFA11, and not notice any massive difference in how the game is played.

Obvious, wide view perspective, ping pong game; with no substance and no consistency were it matters the most.

 

[BuddhaBone]

Dear Konami,

Why did you eliminated the L2 STRATEGIES which could be used without the necessity of pausing the game?

The rest of your words are unnecessary, better get familiar with the changes of the controls: USE SELECT + Button for On-The-Fly-Strategies

 

[Amateur]

The rest of your words are unnecessary, better get familiar with the changes of the controls: USE SELECT + Button for On-The-Fly-Strategies

Yeah, because SELECT is a very accessible button.... hell, now I have to twist my left thumb and will be forced to release the left analogue stick; bad employment of buttons.

But, at least it is possible. I was under the impression that you needed to pause the game.

Although, to be honest, is releasing the left analogue stick not the same thing as PAUSING the game?

 

[Sminky]

I hope I am wrong, believe me so, I would like to be wrong on this one. But reading some comments, a few people have said that it was moved from the L2 button, to the SELECT button.

And the SELECT button is, simply, not a practical choice. I hope I am wrong because I was really looking forwards to PES11.... but after learning some cool tricks with the L2 STRATEGIES, I simply cannot see myself going back to the old habit of following the COM dictated script.

So, I hope I am wrong, because this is a critical area of the game. If anybody knows anything about this, please inform myself about how the L2 STRATEGIES work in PES11.



EDIT -- is the SELECT button an accessible button?



Answer: NO............... SELECT is NOT an accessible button, it is very impractical, it is truly unbelievable how Konami managed to fuck the one thing that PES10 was doing right.

On a positive note, at least it is possible; hopefully the Custom Settings A and Custom Settings B are still in the game.

But, again, is the necessity of releasing the left analogue stick in order to press the SELECT button: is the necessity of releasing the left analogue stick not a PAUSE?

As far as I'm concerned, it is a PAUSE, because it INTERFERES with the action and flow of the game; which makes it an impractical and non-accessible feature.

The point of the thread remains intact: you need to PAUSE the game if you want to dictate formation tweaks. That sucks, Konami fucked the one thing that PES10 was doing right.




Good comments,

I think I am one of the hugest football geeks you will find in any website, and as such, I have noticed how certain essential mechanics of real life football are completely neglected in video games; simple mechanics which could be easily simulated, are neglected by PES and FIFA.

PES11 and FIFA11 have a lot of stupid controls, to cover up how stupid the game actually is.

Konami and EA Sports have, conveniently, created the misconception that simple controls = arcade, and that complicated controls = simulation.

That is absolute bullshit, in truth, complicated and impractical controls = a dumb and insubstantial arcade game, that needs overly complicated controls to make it more of a challenge than it should be.

The defensive system is incompetent in the truest sense of the word; the dribbling and man-marking system, comes all the way from the Famicom Era, the Famicom Era started in 1985, still going today.

Famicom Era: direct the left analogue stick WITHOUT the assistance of a SPRINT button.... and this will be enough to cover spaces of over 100 feet of distance.

In other words, you can run without the assistance of a running button; can you imagine passing the ball without the assistance of a passing button?

The left analogue stick determines:

1st -- HOW you run with the ball,

2nd -- WHEN you run with the ball,

3rd -- DISTANCE COVERED with the ball,

This is a massive Famicom Era problem.... which should have been fixed by now; three entirely different areas attached to one button.... a massive problem, a massive restriction however you look at it.

If by directing the right analogue stick WITHOUT the assistance of a PASSING button: the right analogue stick determined the DIRECTION of the pass, the TIMING of the pass, and the POWER of the pass.

Do you think PASSING would feel restrictive?

Well, this is what is currently happening with dribbling and man-marking, it is restricted by the old Famicom Concept or whatever you want to call it.

A proper Football Sim should have simpler and more accessible controls, and more substance were it matters; the substance will make it difficult and challenging even though the controls are easy to use.

But for this to happen, you need to make better use of the left analogue stick, and you need to have a substantial and precise dribbling and man-marking system.

And PES11 and FIFA11, do not have a substantial and precise dribbling and man-marking system. Variable AI or smarter AI is not such a massive game changer, when the foundation on which it stands is dumb and outdated.

Konami and EA Sports keep adding and taking away, yet the concept remains the very same outdated concept.... which is why you play PES5 and then play PES11 or FIFA11, and not notice any massive difference in how the game is played.

Obvious, wide view perspective, ping pong game; with no substance and no consistency were it matters the most.

I suspect that a change in game mechanics will come about with the advent of a new controller which ditches the analogue stick and D-Pad. Part motion controlled, part button controlled is how I would see the most successful change being implemented.

Its curious that so many people are happy with this game, I find it strange that stealing pace from players, making penalties impossible, over-loading the game with strategy that over-rules the primary strategy and adding clunky AI to match clunky controls is being so well received.

 

[BerbasNo1Fan]

I dunno what you're on about, they moved it from L2 to select, and no select is not in a difficult position, you move your finger off the analogue for 1 SECOND, change it and it's done. Not gonna read your incredibly long posts as it doesn't appear to go beyond that minor issue

 

[wnn670]

I have never seen such an overreaction to a simple thing as changing l2 and square to select and square.

it takes a nanosecond to do, can be done when the ball is out of play also.

get a grip man.

 

[Sminky]

I dunno what you're on about, they moved it from L2 to select, and no select is not in a difficult position, you move your finger off the analogue for 1 SECOND, change it and it's done. Not gonna read your incredibly long posts as it doesn't appear to go beyond that minor issue

Epic fail. Re-read the pieces and you will see the comments on here are from PES fans frustrated with how the game is constructed. It 'appears' had you read the posts you probably wouldn't have needed to make that totally pointless post.

I have never seen such an overreaction to a simple thing as changing l2 and square to select and square.

it takes a nanosecond to do, can be done when the ball is out of play also.

get a grip man.

Ridiculous. Try offering a credible counter arguement in future. I see nothing wrong with Amateur's comments, he backs them up with insight.

What you have failed to notice is that he is a PES fan, as am I. Its our right as consumers to give Konami pelters when we feel they have short changed us.

Seriously, if you don't like threads that critique PES don't read them. If you have a valid point or counter arguement to make then do so as no one is interested (or cares) about your infinitesimal understanding of the subject matter.

 

[shaun7]

But the best thing in this, is that they're still there. I understand Amateur though as with L2 they were easier to use. But at least, they're still there.
Seeing as konami sometimes take out the good things. AT LEAST THEY'RE STILL HERE. So in the end, it's not such a big deal. Maybe there's an option to make it with L2 again?
Pes needs options like those as everyone's tastes are different.

 

[Isslander]

Epic fail. Re-read the pieces and you will see the comments on here are from PES fans frustrated with how the game is constructed. It 'appears' had you read the posts you probably wouldn't have needed to make that totally pointless post.



Ridiculous. Try offering a credible counter arguement in future. I see nothing wrong with Amateur's comments, he backs them up with insight.

What you have failed to notice is that he is a PES fan, as am I. Its our right as consumers to give Konami pelters when we feel they have short changed us.

Seriously, if you don't like threads that critique PES don't read them. If you have a valid point or counter arguement to make then do so as no one is interested (or cares) about your infinitesimal understanding of the subject matter.

Doesn't change the fact that the title of the thread is misleading as it is completely false. Most people realize this and won't even bother reading the post.

 

[Sminky]

Doesn't change the fact that the title of the thread is misleading as it is completely false. Most people realize this and won't even bother reading the post.

If you are seriously telling me that you think a thread entitled "PES11: An outdated game with no on-the-fly-strategies" is going to be Positive about the game then words fail me.

I'm not posting in the threads that like PES, I'm not wandering into "I'm loving PES Thread" and posting "you f**king losers its sh*t!" yet you are happy to do likewise in the threads where people are fed up with PES.

 

[Sminky]

But the best thing in this, is that they're still there. I understand Amateur though as with L2 they were easier to use. But at least, they're still there.
Seeing as konami sometimes take out the good things. AT LEAST THEY'RE STILL HERE. So in the end, it's not such a big deal. Maybe there's an option to make it with L2 again?
Pes needs options like those as everyone's tastes are different.

The strategies really are due a massive overhaul, there are three at play in PES2011 and I find it frustrating.

EDIT: Apologies Moderators! I double posted again!

 

[Isslander]

If you are seriously telling me that you think a thread entitled "PES11: An outdated game with no on-the-fly-strategies" is going to be Positive about the game then words fail me.

I'm not posting in the threads that like PES, I'm not wandering into "I'm loving PES Thread" and posting "you f**king losers its sh*t!" yet you are happy to do that in the threads which people are fed up with PES.

ehm... no, I'm not saying that, You didn't understand what I said. I will try to make it clearer:

It doesn't really matter what arguments or valid points Amateur brings up in his thread, it will be ignored by those who see the title of the post because it is just plain wrong. As for your second point, well I have to admit I don't know where you are going with that one.

 

[Sminky]

ehm... no, I'm not saying that, You didn't understand what I said. I will try to make it clearer:

It doesn't really matter what arguments or valid points Amateur brings up in his thread, it will be ignored by those who see the title of the post because it is just plain wrong. As for your second point, well I have to admit I don't know where you are going with that one.

It doesn't matter what arguments or Valid points are made?! That is errant nonsense. The point of this thread is so that he can argue what he believe and back them up with Valid points!

If I'm not understanding you its because you're not even understanding what you are writing yourself. When you use the word "Misleading" you are implying by definition that this thread, suggests one thing but deviates to another. This is not the case and in addition, to use the term "plain wrong" is a spurious statement - at which point was it plain wrong?

The 2nd point is fairly explanatory. If you don't like what you read don't feel obliged to start an argument in a thread you've misunderstood.

I refer to an earlier statement: Ridiculous.