Pro Evo 2012 vs FIFA 12

[OCKRASS]

1) The lack of fluidity and free play. In becoming more 'sim-like', the games panned out EXACTLY the same OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. I scored the same goals, OVER AND OVER AGAIN and the CPU scored the same GOALS OVER AND OVER AGAIN. My goals would come from any combination of trigger runs and one two's, and the CPU would constantly try and get me on the wide, then attack the corner of the 18 yard box, one on one. To me, this is dull as dog shit.

Hmmm...

Maybe like the ones you have posted on your channel of PES?

All of these 74 vids are the same bubble up long shot goals you scored on PES. Where is the variation? Are these the same GOALS OVER AND OVER AGAIN?

You are so full of shit dude...:blush:

Again...here is the proof
http://www.youtube.com/user/techboy11#p/u/20/Fasxaiw2Cjg

 

[techboy11]

LOL, OCKRASS, you're a gem. The ones I post on Youtube ARE the special goals I score lol.

Bear in mind I play around ten games of PES a day, so multiply that by lots of days, and you'll get a figure in the 100's. Do you want me to post every goal I score here on PES, lol that's just ridiculous.

I post clips for all sorts of reasons, some may be critical of PES, like a goal keeping gaff or a defensive line cheat, which triggers your players out of position. The fact is I've spent more time analysing the bad in PES than the good; until now. If you trace my posts across all forums I have been highly critical of PES in certain areas, using certain settings, in certain modes. For example, the early PES releases you just couldn't tackle and even Danny Murphy was like Messi. I wrote at length about this. I wrote at length about the KONAMI pulling the wool over my eyes with patch 1.01, fobbing us off because the keepers were broken. I wrote at length about Top Player being essentially a cheat mode, whereas Superstar was more balanced. I've wrote at length, good and bad about everything.

If you want me to start posting all my goals OCKRASS I can do dude, then you'll see own goals, tap ins, long shots, headers, deflections, red cards, yellow crads, penalties, free kicks etc etc lol. You'll see some teams using a passing game and others using long ball. You'll see Bale being more responsive and harder to stop like Ribery and Robben, you'll see the slightly clunky Andy Carroll being able to fend off defenders with his strength and win the majority in the air.....all this is individuality. PES gets harder tactically as you progress through the levels, FIFA just plain old cheats as you go from professional, to world class, to legendary. It's cheap tricks in my book.

Generally the long shots are the most stunning to watch, therefore, I post these....comprende?!?

Anyway OCKRASS, I'm not going to spend any more time with you, you play FIFA I'll play my variety PES! I have bashed PES with the best of them, but I will not bash something that almost the complete package now (with patches etc). PES AI engine is beautiful it just failed in it's execution and KONAMI didn't really now which direction to take the series, that's their bad. EA and FIFA is a different kettle of fish, there is something more sinister about trying to be much more subtle in the scripting and the way the CPU just 'get their positions and goals', it's very crafty stuff from EA to disguise the fact that their engine is poor and the AI is poor. How can Burton Albion play like Barcelona...it just makes no sense. Because CPU stats in FIFA mean jack shit, it's just the level of cheat difficulty increases hugely as you go up the levels.

FIFA may flatter to deceive many, but it doesn't deceive me. How can you play twenty minutes and not have one free kick? I can't remember ever having a penalty for example in that CM season I talked about. Or a sending off?

Sigh, let's just agree to disagree OCKRASS.

 

[shaun7]

What? Where? You haven't said anything ..nada ...so where goes what argument?

So because you think Fifa 12 is easier than Fifa 11....there goes my argument? Really :w00t

I think sometimes you cannot even understand BASIC ENGLISH. So I'll say it again.

You were saying that either I did not play fifa or I do not know how to play it simply because of the gamebreaking issues I listed with Fifa 12.

I never said the whole fifa game was crap. Those are YOUR WORDS not mine. I said that it has gamebreaking issues, the ones I listed and I also said that is is overrated and overhyped simply because it has these nice finishing touches like the good animations and smoothness as well as the fluidity of the whole game, but deep inside, the game is not what everyone thinks it is.

I also listed these issues with the game and how EA fooled people like you into thinking that fifa 12 is actually hard, when in reality, it's just a cheap way out to make it LOOK hard, but ultimately, the game is still not hard at all.

When I said there goes your argument again, I meant that you are TOTALLY WRONG when saying that I did not play fifa or do not know how to play it and I have proof to back up with my posts.

You didn't even look at one of the videos, did you? :blush:
I knew you wouldn't.

As I have stated before, YOU DO NOT PLAY FIFA and its clearly obvious. All these ridiculous statements with no proof.
CASE CLOSED/

I have looked at them for your information BUT THAT WAS NOT MY POINT. YOU'RE SIMPLY TRYING TO AVOID THE ISSUES I LISTED. That is the way I defend in fifa simply because the game was designed to defend like that. I understand the fundamentals of many games and I can break down many, many games into simple step by step.

Fifa was easy to break because it does not have DEPTH.

Oh, also, those videos did not prove me wrong about the tackles being sh*t and the spots in the pitch where a tackle never works no matter how well you "time" it.

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PES VS FIFA. FORGET THAT. I AM ONTO SOMETHING ELSE, SOMETHING YOU DO NOT LIKE AND THAT'S STATING THE UTTER BAD SIDE OF FIFA UNDER IT'S BEAUTIFUL SKIN.

 

[hawkeye76]

OCKRASS

Interesting that you would come to the conclusion that I haven't played FIFA because I haven't enjoyed it. If that fits in with your argument, then thats fine, think what you like.

I have yet to give FIFA12 a good crack of the whip. Games tend to evolve more than change entirely however, so the chances of me liking the new one are slim. The few games Ive played have felt similar to previous versions. At least they have gone some way to fixing the tackling system. Previously ripped straight out of NHL hockey.

I have played and still own FIFA08,09,10,11 and have had many of the previous versions. I do not hate EA. I have no reason to. I certainly wouldn't keep giving them my money if i did. I may not have played as extensively as some, but I definitely played enough to gauge its worth. The FIFA games feel promising, like they should be good. So I play through the initial disinterest and lack of enjoyment. After playing more and getting competent they actually start to get worse. More issues arise plus the old ones don't get eradicated through better ability and understanding.

To sum up the differences between the 2 franchises on the PS3:
FIFA has better player control with less cpu interference, but the gameplay, AI and depth is worse.
PES has worse player control with too much CPU interference, but has better gameplay, AI and depth.
Notice I haven't mentioned anything about graphics, animations, nets, celebrations, licences etc, as these are unimportant for me.
Some people prefer the game with more control (25-1 apparently) but I prefer to battle through the lack of control to play the better game.

Although my football gaming has tailed off since the PS3 hit as all football games have been disappointing, I'm still better positioned than nearly anyone to rate a football game. Not that you will or should take my word for it.

I'm not trying to change your mind on FIFA. Its what you like playing, thats fine, I'm happy for you. But there are numerous problems with it that might make other people prefer to play PES, or other games.

I can't stand marmite, but I'm not going to tell other people they shouldn't eat it. Unless they are in my house, as Ive banned it. Cant stand the smell.

 

[abu97]

FIFA has the worst programming but the goal variation isn't too bad- you can do scorpion kicks on FIFA wheras on PES, I have never ever done it. Look at goals of the week by ksiolajidebt and you'll see it. Against the COM, PES is better because of it's programming but the difficulty levels don't make sense - for some reason superstar feels easier but when COM have, say, ribery on the ball my kolo toure can't outrun him. But when I have Messi on the ball, he can't even outrun Terry so they both need refurbishments. Pes overdo a lot of things and FIFA don't - the COM hardly ever make a mistake in passing wheras in FIFA They do time to time.
Also I just can't see individuality in PES - every defender make Godlike interceptions and people like Vidic can dribble with the ball close to his feet wheras FIFA don't make mistakes or errors lke this.

Also, players rarely ever score long shots in real life- depending on tactics. When Barca are in trouble, they rely on Xavi to do a killer pass or pass it down the wings to cross and score.

 

[techboy11]

FIFA has the worst programming but the goal variation isn't too bad- you can do scorpion kicks on FIFA wheras on PES, I have never ever done it. Look at goals of the week by ksiolajidebt and you'll see it. Against the COM, PES is better because of it's programming but the difficulty levels don't make sense - for some reason superstar feels easier but when COM have, say, ribery on the ball my kolo toure can't outrun him. But when I have Messi on the ball, he can't even outrun Terry so they both need refurbishments. Pes overdo a lot of things and FIFA don't - the COM hardly ever make a mistake in passing wheras in FIFA They do time to time.
Also I just can't see individuality in PES - every defender make Godlike interceptions and people like Vidic can dribble with the ball close to his feet wheras FIFA don't make mistakes or errors lke this.

Also, players rarely ever score long shots in real life- depending on tactics. When Barca are in trouble, they rely on Xavi to do a killer pass or pass it down the wings to cross and score.

I think this is where FIFA and PES people will always differ, for FIFA players 'goal variation' is something like dribbling past 5 players, 'scorpion kicks', rainbow flicks, all gimmicky bullshit stuff, this is a FIFA's interpretation of 'goal variation'.

A PES players interpretation of goal variation isn't the gimmicks stuff, it's the way that the move was created, the way the players work, the way you find a way to unlock a defence, and the variation in bobbles of the ball and bounces etc, the finishing side of things is just the eye candy, for PES players like me, it's how you get to that position that makes PES unique and something that FIFA players will never understand.

I don't want to do rainbow flicks and feints and cross overs and dribble past five players; if that's you're definition of goal variation then it's not what I'm after. The point is in PES, you can never score the same goal twice, because the build up is entirely different all the time.

In FIFA, I know I can get to point E, via point A then to B to C to D etc, because it's built like that. I also know that once I get to point E and am 'in position' by doing something on the controller like a trigger run will almost certainly get me a goal combined more often than not with finesse finish, these are glitch positions. In PES there are no glitch positions. To get to point E, sometimes you have to go A-B-S-C-B etc etc.

In fact point E may even more around because the AI is active both for you and against you, so nothing stays in place for long, that's why when you play PES it just isn't linear, because it cannot be, because the AI keeps changing.

I've got a video uploading, the latest game I've played, Liverpool v Arsenal, and I defy anyone to say that it is not a simulation of football in terms of attacking/defensive AI, chances, possession, range of play and passing, the way you have to manipulate space etc.

 

[abu97]

My bad, I thought you meant goal variation as in the different type of goals. FIFA do have small goal variation but again that is due to poor programing

 

[markcross]

abu why not just let go of all ur frustrations and realise its only a computer game, then maybe u can enjoy it more and stop analysing every aspect of it, i think its time we all agreed pes2012 is an amazing football game to be enjoyed

 

[Sabatasso]

I think sometimes you cannot even understand BASIC ENGLISH.

I think he knows the words, but he can't comprehend anything else than "yes" and "no". He actually shows signs of what we call "lack of intelligence" where I come from, but I have no proof to state such a claim, so I wont...

Make of that what you will, OCKRASS.

 

[Stormrider]

Goal variation in Pes 2012 for me is really lacking. It's at an all time low for a Pes game. I've scored the same type of goal from edge of box in about 90% of my matches. This year's Pes game is too much like the older Fifa games for me. It did start off promising, looking like it'll be my favourtie Pes but the more I play it the more it's becoming one of my least favourtie Pes. It's a shame but at least this is a good season for gamers. So many great games to choose from that are more worth my time and money then either footy games.

 

[techboy11]

Goal variation in Pes 2012 for me is really lacking. It's at an all time low for a Pes game. I've scored the same type of goal from edge of box in about 90% of my matches. This year's Pes game is too much like the older Fifa games for me. It did start off promising, looking like it'll be my favourtie Pes but the more I play it the more it's becoming one of my least favourtie Pes. It's a shame but at least this is a good season for gamers. So many great games to choose from that are more worth my time and money then either footy games.

Firstly what mode do you play? ie Professional, Top Player etc

Secondly I agree with you that if you played 1.02 as it is, and the CPU park the bus, then the only options you have is the longer shot from around the box.

But there are other versions of the game (patches) that un-make the CPU park the bus, and so scoring the same goal is not an option.

This is no bull, I've posted some stuff here to prove it.

The last say seven games, I've had (for and against me), headers, drives, lobs, one on ones, free kicks, penalties, deflected goals, an own goal, pile-drivers and placed finesse shots lol, I mean is there anything else left?!? lol

 

[abu97]

Firstly what mode do you play? ie Professional, Top Player etc

Secondly I agree with you that if you played 1.02 as it is, and the CPU park the bus, then the only options you have is the longer shot from around the box.

But there are other versions of the game (patches) that un-make the CPU park the bus, and so scoring the same goal is not an option.

This is no bull, I've posted some stuff here to prove it.

The last say seven games, I've had (for and against me), headers, drives, lobs, one on ones, free kicks, penalties, deflected goals, an own goal, pile-drivers and placed finesse shots lol, I mean is there anything else left?!? lol

I thought you said goal variation for you is not the types of shooting but it is how you build-up play and score goals, not scissor kicks or scorpion kicks

 

[techboy11]

Err, yeah Abu, is anything in that list a gimmick though, things like penalties, headers, deflected goals, are all part and parcel of football. There's nothing gimmicky about anything in that list, they are by products of a move that ends like that, whereas the general FIFA player is more dazzled by how many step overs he can do with Ronaldo and how he can use Super Street Fighter button combinations to stop the ball, flick it in the air, and do a spin a roony three sixty degree hyper volley!

 

[abu97]

Not all the time. For instance me, I can build up to a goal because I hardly ever use skills apart from nutmeg and sometimes I can score some spectacular goals. Pes just has better variation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqNjmrqJVqM&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL385746FFEE5DD3D6

 

[hoffspur]

I know I'm late to the party, but I have (and play) both games.

I think there are strengths and weaknesses to both. Of course since they are both attempting to simulate the same sport they will be compared, but I'm not going to say one is better than the other, just that one may appeal to a certain type of gamer over another.

 

[orlandoSPUR]

^^ and what would that be fella regarding the type of gamer?

 

[g221911g]

I know I'm late to the party, but I have (and play) both games.

I think there are strengths and weaknesses to both. Of course since they are both attempting to simulate the same sport they will be compared, but I'm not going to say one is better than the other, just that one may appeal to a certain type of gamer over another.

I was thinking about this as well. My very general opinion is:

I believe FIFA is for the type of gamer that wants to control the match. A type of gamer looking for human v human interaction/online gaming. AI is close to nonexistant because intelligence/movement is dependent on gamer.

PES seems to be more for the gamer looking for a challenge from the AI. That wants to react to the situations put around him/her by the AI (= less control, but more realistic looking game). Mostly, human v human experiences are generally much better offline than online.

 

[hoffspur]

^^ and what would that be fella regarding the type of gamer?

At least in my experiences I view it like this:

FIFA is geared towards the pick up and play gamer. Someone who may not know a lot about the sport, but wants to play a soccer game. There are basically 4 types of goals that are scored in the game, but the game is built for goals (instant gratification). The new defensive system is a nice addition, though. There are tactics involved, but they don't translate to the pitch in any way, shape, or form.

PES is aimed at people who know a little more about the game itself and are looking for a challenge. You don't necessarily need to know a lot about tactics, but it certainly adds depth to your gameplay experience if you do. There is also a lot more variation in goals and it's actually rewarding when you do score a goal, because it's a lot harder.

Again, that's my opinion of the two series in general, not just this years' editions.

 

[CACR25]

Both FIFA 12 & PES 2012 are simply horrible

I own both and they are both shit and I feel like I wasted my $$$.

I recommend buying a real football and going outside playing with your mates + getting football manager 2012.

Peace & Love!

 

[markcross]

Goal variation in Pes 2012 for me is really lacking. It's at an all time low for a Pes game. I've scored the same type of goal from edge of box in about 90% of my matches. This year's Pes game is too much like the older Fifa games for me. It did start off promising, looking like it'll be my favourtie Pes but the more I play it the more it's becoming one of my least favourtie Pes. It's a shame but at least this is a good season for gamers. So many great games to choose from that are more worth my time and money then either footy games.

I disagree emphatically, pes2012 allows more ways to score goals than ever, i have scored 30 yard screamers, ddribbleing runs round the keeper, from crosses (volleys an headers), goalmouth scrambles and even a stunning overhead kick with ballotelli!!!! like i have been saying for a while now keep practicing an u will get better