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This defensive player catchup issue has gotten too much!!

S-D-P

Registered User
I like that there is less emphasis on speed but I agree its a bit overdone, my best advice would be to get used to close control, using this in tandem with sprint creates momentum making it easier to get away from defenders, used this many times to great effect. I play on -2 haven't used the other speed settings.
 

Sminky

Registered User
by the wind up merchants you mean the acceleration of players when they get the ball? I notice on +1 (havent tried +2) its not as noticable but on default speed some players when they get the ball seem to accelerate like they're running on ice or mud for the first few strides before reaching top speed. This is also a factor on the defenders catching up. I find myself wanting to pass the ball as soon as my player gets it to prevent this from happening... It wasn't really an issue last year or in the PS2 games... hopefully its just a hickup for 2011.

I wasn't calling you a wind up merchant mate :)

The game speed really ticks me off on this game but I play mostly long ball now so its not an issue. A narrow diamond formation seems to undo Top Player AI, so I'm sticking with that.
 

DIECI

Registered User
I like that there is less emphasis on speed but I agree its a bit overdone, my best advice would be to get used to close control, using this in tandem with sprint creates momentum making it easier to get away from defenders, used this many times to great effect. I play on -2 haven't used the other speed settings.


thats good advice, I'll try this to see if it helps.
 

DIECI

Registered User
I wasn't calling you a wind up merchant mate :)

The game speed really ticks me off on this game but I play mostly long ball now so its not an issue. A narrow diamond formation seems to undo Top Player AI, so I'm sticking with that.

haha I didn't think you did ;)
 

LOL-ness

Registered User
it doesn't really increase speed. The defender gets glued to the ball and will pass your player to get the ball regardless.

I don't think so. I've tried that often (I believe it's double-tap R1) in my offline ML games, and my winger kicks the ball far away and sprint to catch up, the opposing defender would be stuck to the player instead of the ball, giving me a chance to shove him off before catching up to the ball again.

I personally don't mind some bitching, but it does get very tiring to read when the same person repeats his ranting every single time on a lot of different threads. I end up not reading it at all and just filter their entire post away.
 

bluechampion

Registered User
Probably I'm alone here. I don't seem to have any issues with AI defenders catching up my pacy players. I can skin defenders with Malouda more often than not. Direction, deception and technique are important. More often people do the obvious and expect the AI not not anticipate and respond. Try surprising the AI defender. Try bursts of pace instead running about 100 yards. It's not just the pace, it's the quick turn, the slow dribble, the the knock on and the combination of these things that ticks for me. I'm pretty pleased with the balance of attack and defence in this game. In PES5/6, using pace was a bit too easy. In WE 2011, its just perfect. Go easy on me, this is just my opinion.
 

The Raffaxis

Registered User
Hello guys.

I have to say that at the beginning i tought the game s++ks. But know it is awesome. Sure the defender get's u at the beginning all the time, but i think it's ok.
U have to learn how to play the game. If it doesn't work you are not good enough.

The most said FIFA is better. That isnt true. FIFA is only much easier. If u are a good soccer player than u choose PES!

By the way. DIECI is not playing good ;). You can see it specially, because he is Juventus Fan.
 

thenotsogood

Registered User
Ah, but I have to say that good players play with logic. Knock a ball on for Lennon an extra ten yards and he'll get to it before anyone else. If this game is supposed to be a football sim, use that logic. I don't want to be near the opposition box and have no options because my player can't even beat Sol Campbell on speed.
 

sacred_hoops

New Member
I read this thread this morning and brushed it off. But I've been playing today and I have to agree with DIECI here, the balance is way off. Perhaps it affects you more depending on how you play, but it seems easy to play defence.
It always seemed before that you had two basic choices of either committing to the tackle or sitting back and containing. Now it seems you get to have your cake and eat if because if you miss the tackle, you still get to catch up to the attacker and have another go. I don't think its an advantage for the AI either, seems to be for myself and in 2 player.

I love all the other changes, but this one is frustrating the hell out of me.
 

Amateur

Registered User
Probably I'm alone here. I don't seem to have any issues with AI defenders catching up my pacy players. I can skin defenders with Malouda more often than not. Direction, deception and technique are important. More often people do the obvious and expect the AI not not anticipate and respond. Try surprising the AI defender. Try bursts of pace instead running about 100 yards. It's not just the pace, it's the quick turn, the slow dribble, the the knock on and the combination of these things that ticks for me. I'm pretty pleased with the balance of attack and defence in this game. In PES5/6, using pace was a bit too easy. In WE 2011, its just perfect. Go easy on me, this is just my opinion.

Direction, deception, technique; my opinion is, go and play an online game and tell me that the balance is perfect.

Deception: how?

Direction: it is the only thing you can actually do.

Technique: how?

Fact: by simply directing the left analogue stick in any direction, without the assistance of any button, the player will start running in the given direction; yes, it is possible to run without the assistance of the sprint button; and yes, it is impossible to move INSIDE a determined space of 5 feet of distance.

I respect your opinion; but your argument, if it is an argument, I think is very weak because I can prove how badly informed you are with video footage.

The game might be balanced, but it is controlled by the computer, not by your skills as a player, which is why we experience all these inconsistencies: defenders catching up with you when they shouldn't, is not realistic, it is the computer deciding to "balance" the game for you and without your input.

In any case, be glad that you are satisfied with the product you payed for.
 

bluechampion

Registered User
Amateur: here's how:

Deception: surprising the opponent. Using pace when he's not expecting you to and not using pace when he's expecting you to. Basically keep him confused. Stay unpredictable.

Direction: you know it. Requires quick and smart use of the thumbstick. Make him fall for your trap. This is one's quite easy.

Technique: the R2 button - slow dribble.
Helps us control the ball and launch a run. Don't run in a straight line. That's a fundamental mistake. Use your players body as he runs. Dribble, don't just run. Use knock ons judiciously. You must choose the perfect moment for knock ons.

I'll admit that most of my winning eleven time is spent on offline top player. I love to play in -2 gamespeed so I don't play a lot of online. Probably playing in -2 gamespeed allows me the time to think and manoeuvre attacking runs. You can try that too.

On video evidences, I'd love to see video evidences in support of both these arguments. Probably we need evidences more for successful pacy runs more than the other side.
 

Ali

It is happening again
Direction, deception, technique; my opinion is, go and play an online game and tell me that the balance is perfect.

Deception: how?

Direction: it is the only thing you can actually do.

Technique: how?

I actually think bluechampion makes a decent point. To get round players, you don't just need a huge burst of pace, just a simple drop of the shoulder or couple of step overs seems to do the trick.

Amateur said:
Fact: by simply directing the left analogue stick in any direction, without the assistance of any button, the player will start running in the given direction; yes, it is possible to run without the assistance of the sprint button; and yes, it is impossible to move INSIDE a determined space of 5 feet of distance.

You bring this up yet again, and I can't see how it has any relevance to how hard it is to speed past players.
I'm guessing what your saying is that you want to be able to move the left stick 360 degrees and have the player turn on the spot, rather than run in a circle as they do now? Personally, I can't see how this would help, it would probably make it worse, would slow players down even more. Look at many 3rd person games, if you rotate the left stick, you run around in a circle, not turn on the spot.

Amateur said:
The game might be balanced, but it is controlled by the computer, not by your skills as a player, which is why we experience all these inconsistencies: defenders catching up with you when they shouldn't, is not realistic, it is the computer deciding to "balance" the game for you and without your input.

It's not just against the computer where players catch up, against human controlled players too. I'd rather not have every player online just running down the wing with Walcott to get cheap goals. I like it how it is now.

I don't ever want it to get like Fifa. I saw my bro play a bit yesterday... it's sooooo fast. Players weave in and out on the ball way to easily, it actually looks like the ball is glued to their foot!
 

Sminky

Registered User
Ali its terrible how it is now, I understand the wing whore point but the system is weighted so heavily in favour of defenders.

A fridge freezer could catch Walcott now.

I'd like to see the following for PES2012, Affected dribbling when in full flight: no more legging it at light speed with the ball glued to a players foot. A Gareth Bale inspired push and run system, very good players can knock a ball forward and skin players coupled with a realistic stamina option. Clearly any fast player isn't sprinting up and down the wing for the whole 45 minutes of each half so konami can build on the current sprint stamina option. That would negate the constant wing bitchery.

The problem with any amendment is that in a computer game there is always going to be something that becomes abused.

I played someone the other night who with fairly average players played the same through balls down the wing, used the same feint to check inside and held the down button to power shots in at goal. It truly was one trick pony shite. I lost 3-1, I don't blame the player, I blame Konami for making it possible.

I tried everything to tackle him, I knew what he was going to do but the animation and movement of my defenders made it impossible to stop him. The only thing I had in my favour was when he tried a straight race down the wing I always caught him.

I think I would have preferred to be beaten for pace done the wing and defend by packing the penalty area with bodies. Instead I watch my defenders conned by the same feints. Its not realistic. Its better than PES2010 but its a work in progress. I think alot of you are going to be really disappointed when Konami address this for future editions because pace is inevitably going to be put back in.
 

Amateur

Registered User
I actually think bluechampion makes a decent point. To get round players, you don't just need a huge burst of pace, just a simple drop of the shoulder or couple of step overs seems to do the trick.



You bring this up yet again, and I can't see how it has any relevance to how hard it is to speed past players.
I'm guessing what your saying is that you want to be able to move the left stick 360 degrees and have the player turn on the spot, rather than run in a circle as they do now? Personally, I can't see how this would help, it would probably make it worse, would slow players down even more. Look at many 3rd person games, if you rotate the left stick, you run around in a circle, not turn on the spot.



It's not just against the computer where players catch up, against human controlled players too. I'd rather not have every player online just running down the wing with Walcott to get cheap goals. I like it how it is now.

I don't ever want it to get like Fifa. I saw my bro play a bit yesterday... it's sooooo fast. Players weave in and out on the ball way to easily, it actually looks like the ball is glued to their foot!

Dude, if you don't get the point it's because you have not even bothered thinking about it, you just read the words but you don't actually think about what your reading.

The movements are automatic, this means that the COMPUTER can easily decide each outcome to make things more difficult than they should be; I want to play the game, I don't want to feel like a passenger.

How the left analogue stick functions: it produces automatic and repetitive movements, it is impossible to affect movement without also affecting your position on the pitch.

How the left analogue stick does not functions: it does not produces organic movements which are precise enough to move inside determined spaces of precisely 5 feet of distance, thus making it possible to affect movement without also affecting your position on the pitch and without affecting the direction in which you are looking at.

No I do not want to turn on the spot; I want different things on the spot, but twisting on the spot does not necessarily makes it dribbling, because it limits the variety of animations which can be implemented into the left analogue stick.

I already said what I wanted to see, I guess you ignored that post or you simply didn't see it at all; either way, I don't feel like explaining it to someone like you.

The functioning of the left analogue stick determines the amount or variety of animations and accuracy which can be implemented into the left analogue stick, and logically, this greatly affects all the areas of the game.

The way the left analogue stick functions, is the reason for defenders catching up with you, and it was the reason for players easily sprinting past you in past versions of the game; if you can't see why that has any relevance, you don't have a clue about the game that you are playing.

This is not my opinion, it is a fact, my opinion is that the game should move on after a decade of the same formula, and my opinion does not affects the mentioned fact in any way.
 

Ali

It is happening again
Dude, if you don't get the point it's because you have not even bothered thinking about it, you just read the words but you don't actually think about what your reading.

The movements are automatic, this means that the COMPUTER can easily decide each outcome to make things more difficult than they should be; I want to play the game, I don't want to feel like a passenger.

How the left analogue stick functions: it produces automatic and repetitive movements, it is impossible to affect movement without also affecting your position on the pitch.

How the left analogue stick does not functions: it does not produces organic movements which are precise enough to move inside determined spaces of precisely 5 feet of distance, thus making it possible to affect movement without also affecting your position on the pitch and without affecting the direction in which you are looking at.

No I do not want to turn on the spot; I want different things on the spot, but twisting on the spot does not necessarily makes it dribbling, because it limits the variety of animations which can be implemented into the left analogue stick.

I already said what I wanted to see, I guess you ignored that post or you simply didn't see it at all; either way, I don't feel like explaining it to someone like you.

The functioning of the left analogue stick determines the amount or variety of animations and accuracy which can be implemented into the left analogue stick, and logically, this greatly affects all the areas of the game.

The way the left analogue stick functions, is the reason for defenders catching up with you, and it was the reason for players easily sprinting past you in past versions of the game; if you can't see why that has any relevance, you don't have a clue about the game that you are playing.

This is not my opinion, it is a fact, my opinion is that the game should move on after a decade of the same formula, and my opinion does not affects the mentioned fact in any way.

I like it how you insult me by saying "someone like me", just because I don't agree with what you keep droning on about all the time.

Ok, you want more control over the players in smaller spaces, 5 feet you say, that's fair enough. But players catching up to each other isn't to do with the left stick, it's to do with Konami balancing the game too far, in favour of the slower players. If you think slower players catching up to the faster ones IS to do with the left stick, can you please explain EXACTLY how?? Since player speed in a straight line is not controlled by the left stick, left stick only controls direction, not player speed.

Look, stop insulting my intelligence by suggesting I haven't thought about it. I KNOW the computer does have some control over your directions, where the ball goes etc, it does need to feel more "organic" as you put it.

I've noticed that every time someone disagrees with them, you claim they know nothing about the game AND claim that your opinions are FACT, without giving any actual evidence, you even result to derogatory comments and often name calling.

Do you even have anything positive to say about the game at all? I know this is a forum, and everyone has a right to an opinion, but it feels like you just come on here saying the same thing over and over, like you're trying to get everyone to come on to your way of thinking.

Sminky Pinky said:
Ali its terrible how it is now, I understand the wing whore point but the system is weighted so heavily in favour of defenders.

A fridge freezer could catch Walcott now.

I'd like to see the following for PES2012, Affected dribbling when in full flight: no more legging it at light speed with the ball glued to a players foot. A Gareth Bale inspired push and run system, very good players can knock a ball forward and skin players coupled with a realistic stamina option. Clearly any fast player isn't sprinting up and down the wing for the whole 45 minutes of each half so konami can build on the current sprint stamina option. That would negate the constant wing bitchery.

I wouldn't call it terrible. I just wouldn't want it to swing too far in the other direction. For example, I wouldn't want a player (with the ball) who's speed attribute is just... say 5 better than the chasing player, speeding away from him with ease. Maybe 10 better, but no less. Like I said before, players are quicker off ball than on it.

Push and run is a good idea. They have something like that on Fifa, which works will in a lot of occasions. In the old games, when you pressed R1 and R2 together, it did a decent knock on, but it is less effective in PES 2011. Stamina would be good, like you say. Having a stamina system like Fifa does would work. If you run a lot on the ball, the stamina bar goes down, but when you take a breather, it goes back up again.

Some nice constructive criticism there, Sminky.
 

Sminky

Registered User
I wouldn't call it terrible. I just wouldn't want it to swing too far in the other direction. For example, I wouldn't want a player (with the ball) who's speed attribute is just... say 5 better than the chasing player, speeding away from him with ease. Maybe 10 better, but no less. Like I said before, players are quicker off ball than on it.

Push and run is a good idea. They have something like that on Fifa, which works will in a lot of occasions. In the old games, when you pressed R1 and R2 together, it did a decent knock on, but it is less effective in PES 2011. Stamina would be good, like you say. Having a stamina system like Fifa does would work. If you run a lot on the ball, the stamina bar goes down, but when you take a breather, it goes back up again.

Some nice constructive criticism there, Sminky.

Cheers chap :)

I agree with you on the player points, only genuinely fast players should be skinning defenders.

I wonder whether Konami will be able to get the balance righ - Didn't they weight the speed system in favour of defenders on PES4? I think PES5 or PES6 had the speed system better weighted. I'll put money on Konami producing a true wing bitches edition of PES next year.

By the way, I hate those fucking feints as well! Someone needs to start that thread, I'm too disgusted to myself. Its such cheap shit, rainbow flicks and same old same old one trick pony shat down the wings.
 

Montanaro

Registered User
I don't think so. I've tried that often (I believe it's double-tap R1) in my offline ML games, and my winger kicks the ball far away and sprint to catch up, the opposing defender would be stuck to the player instead of the ball, giving me a chance to shove him off before catching up to the ball again.

QUOTE]

It's not the double tap, it's like a double tap and a flick with the left stick, it sends the ball probably twice as far as double tapping R1. If you look it up in game under the list of controls and tricks it should say in there. I've only ever used it in training, so I can't say how well it works, but you can seriously push the ball past defenders, essentially a through ball to yourself.
 

Amateur

Registered User
I like it how you insult me by saying "someone like me", just because I don't agree with what you keep droning on about all the time.

Ok, you want more control over the players in smaller spaces, 5 feet you say, that's fair enough. But players catching up to each other isn't to do with the left stick, it's to do with Konami balancing the game too far, in favour of the slower players. If you think slower players catching up to the faster ones IS to do with the left stick, can you please explain EXACTLY how?? Since player speed in a straight line is not controlled by the left stick, left stick only controls direction, not player speed.

Look, stop insulting my intelligence by suggesting I haven't thought about it. I KNOW the computer does have some control over your directions, where the ball goes etc, it does need to feel more "organic" as you put it.

I've noticed that every time someone disagrees with them, you claim they know nothing about the game AND claim that your opinions are FACT, without giving any actual evidence, you even result to derogatory comments and often name calling.

Do you even have anything positive to say about the game at all? I know this is a forum, and everyone has a right to an opinion, but it feels like you just come on here saying the same thing over and over, like you're trying to get everyone to come on to your way of thinking.

This a RAGE thread and yet you expect positive comments?

Yet another example of how much you listen when you read, you read but you obviously don't think about whatever it is that you are reading or writing.

I was only insulting your lack of interest because I felt insulted by your lack of DECENCY, you come in questioning my argument and yet you do not have the DECENCY of actually listening to the actual argument; perhaps this explains why you feel I insulted your intelligence.

You think I insulted your intelligence, I disagree, I was merely criticizing the lack of interest and respect you have shown me: lack of intellect and lack of interest are very different things.

Question:

Players catching up to each other isn't to do with the left stick according to who? according to you?

Answer:

I am talking about blatant facts, you are talking about your opinion and how you think that your opinion is indeed a fact, and yet you cannot provide evidence to support your claim.

You questioned my argument and judged it as subjective, I will now explain why it is not subjective nor redundant, as briefly as I can.

Adding more directions to the same old formula will not actually fix the old flaws, it will simply replace the old flaws with new flaws, the source responsible for the old flaws and the new flaws is the very same source.

Adding more directions in terms of movement from one space to another space, without tweaking the movement without the ball, would result in an unrealistically fast arcade game; which is why the updated version of PES10 needed to be dumbed down and slowed down.

Where you could understandably sprint past slow defenders in PES5, you now have slow defenders inexplicably catching up with fast players in PES11; the old flaw was replaced with a new flaw, the source responsible for the old flaw and for the new flaw is the very same source.

With PES5 you could not pass the ball like in PES11, but you enjoyed more consistency in terms of movement without the ball, players didn't catch up with you when you were well past them; on the other hand, with PES11 you have more variety in terms of passing, but you experience inexplicable things like slow defenders catching up with fast players.

Question.

How do you want more control over the slow defender that catches up with you?

If the left analogue stick has nothing to do with it, then please tell me, why do we have no control over it?

Answer.

Because movements are automatic due to the functioning of the left analogue stick, which means that defenders catching up with you is just as automatic as the movements of the players.

Consequently, the control or freedom that you can have over the game is restricted by the overall lack of accuracy, animations, and substance.

If defenders did not catch up with you, playing down the wings and sending a low cross would be extremely easy due to the new found "freedom" that the new passing system offers; and you would then be complaining about this flaw, and how easy it is to get past slow defenders.

Question.

Who controls when Cristiano Ronaldo consistently steals the ball away from the feet of Xavi Hernandez?

Question.

Who controls when the referee decides that a perfectly timed sliding tackle, which visually looked perfect, was a foul?

Answer.

These are different flaws, but all the different flaws are products of the same source or factory.

Bottom Line.

Honestly, if you cannot understand how movement inside the space affects movement through space.... you don't have a clue.

If you cannot understand how the functioning of the left analogue stick affects the movement without the ball.... you don't have a clue.

It is not my opinion, it is a fact, if you want evidence you should play the video game; if you play the video game the same way you read and write, you are likely to not see past the restrictions.
 

LOL-ness

Registered User
It's not the double tap, it's like a double tap and a flick with the left stick, it sends the ball probably twice as far as double tapping R1. If you look it up in game under the list of controls and tricks it should say in there. I've only ever used it in training, so I can't say how well it works, but you can seriously push the ball past defenders, essentially a through ball to yourself.

Thanks for the clarification. Looks like I've been subconsciously flicking the left stick every time I tried that trick.

To follow up from my last point: I find that this trick works with SB more often that SMF or WF (unless you count CR7 in). The reason is that SMF like Nani usually have a very low body balance, meaning that even if I kick the ball really far away, the defender attached to Nani can still push him away and get the ball. I don't usually get this problem when I try this trick to push past opposing defenders with SB like Evra, Lahm, G. Johnson...etc.
 

Ali

It is happening again
This a RAGE thread and yet you expect positive comments?

Yet another example of how much you listen when you read, you read but you obviously don't think about whatever it is that you are reading or writing.

I was only insulting your lack of interest because I felt insulted by your lack of DECENCY, you come in questioning my argument and yet you do not have the DECENCY of actually listening to the actual argument; perhaps this explains why you feel I insulted your intelligence.

You think I insulted your intelligence, I disagree, I was merely criticizing the lack of interest and respect you have shown me: lack of intellect and lack of interest are very different things.

Question:

Players catching up to each other isn't to do with the left stick according to who? according to you?

Answer:

I am talking about blatant facts, you are talking about your opinion and how you think that your opinion is indeed a fact, and yet you cannot provide evidence to support your claim.

You questioned my argument and judged it as subjective, I will now explain why it is not subjective nor redundant, as briefly as I can.

Adding more directions to the same old formula will not actually fix the old flaws, it will simply replace the old flaws with new flaws, the source responsible for the old flaws and the new flaws is the very same source.

Adding more directions in terms of movement from one space to another space, without tweaking the movement without the ball, would result in an unrealistically fast arcade game; which is why the updated version of PES10 needed to be dumbed down and slowed down.

Where you could understandably sprint past slow defenders in PES5, you now have slow defenders inexplicably catching up with fast players in PES11; the old flaw was replaced with a new flaw, the source responsible for the old flaw and for the new flaw is the very same source.

With PES5 you could not pass the ball like in PES11, but you enjoyed more consistency in terms of movement without the ball, players didn't catch up with you when you were well past them; on the other hand, with PES11 you have more variety in terms of passing, but you experience inexplicable things like slow defenders catching up with fast players.

Question.

How do you want more control over the slow defender that catches up with you?

If the left analogue stick has nothing to do with it, then please tell me, why do we have no control over it?

Answer.

Because movements are automatic due to the functioning of the left analogue stick, which means that defenders catching up with you is just as automatic as the movements of the players.

Consequently, the control or freedom that you can have over the game is restricted by the overall lack of accuracy, animations, and substance.

If defenders did not catch up with you, playing down the wings and sending a low cross would be extremely easy due to the new found "freedom" that the new passing system offers; and you would then be complaining about this flaw, and how easy it is to get past slow defenders.

Question.

Who controls when Cristiano Ronaldo consistently steals the ball away from the feet of Xavi Hernandez?

Question.

Who controls when the referee decides that a perfectly timed sliding tackle, which visually looked perfect, was a foul?

Answer.

These are different flaws, but all the different flaws are products of the same source or factory.

Bottom Line.

Honestly, if you cannot understand how movement inside the space affects movement through space.... you don't have a clue.

If you cannot understand how the functioning of the left analogue stick affects the movement without the ball.... you don't have a clue.

It is not my opinion, it is a fact, if you want evidence you should play the video game; if you play the video game the same way you read and write, you are likely to not see past the restrictions.

Nice of you to show your wonderful observational skills by stating that this is a Rage thread... no... this is Player Catchup Issue thread.... completely different.

You don't make ANY positive comments in ANY threads. The only time you post is when you sense an opportunity to have a rant about the left stick. You NEVER help anyone who posts a query.

Just because I don't write paragraphs upon paragraphs of useless dribble, doesn't mean I don't think about it, and to be honest... why should I think about it as much as you do? It's a game.

I have read your arguments, but still CAN'T see how the left stick affects player speed! The lack of freedom in the game isn't just down to the functionality of the L stick, it's about how the computer controls the AI players. The players we control are running at the pace that they should be (in my opinion), the AI players are running at a pace which is controlled by the AI. At no point when I'm bombing down the wing with Lennon, do I feel that the game is slowing me down, or that the "functionality of that darn left stick" is hindering me in any way. The only time that I think I'm being hindered is when I am running onto a pass.

Lack of interest or respect? Why should I show respect to you when you haven't shown any to me? Why should I show respect to someone who posts the same thing over and over again, like he's just copied it off a saved Microsoft Word document on his PC? Why should I show respect to someone who claims that everything he says is the be all and end all, yet has no evidence.

I am willing to take on some of your arguments, about how we are restricted in a way, as we are in most computer games. But I just don't see how the left stick has any relevance to player speed, or why Real Madrid are so good for that matter.

If I am playing online against a human controlled player, me running down the wing with Lennon, him chasing me with.. say...Marcelo. We're both holding the L stick in the same direction, both holding R1, he will catch up to me despite being the slower player. Because 1) Players can run faster without the ball (this is natural) and 2) The game favours the defensive players in these situations, always has done, but has been less evident in previous games.

This game has actually been my favourite PES in this generation of consoles. I don't feel as if it has been dumbed down.

Bottom line is:

You don't need to keep posting the same argument in every thread you've visited, for me it's getting very tired. Do you actually have any new arguments? Do you even play the game anymore? You've made close to 2,000 comments on this site... are they all long rants about the left stick?

Here's a little advice to you, which I have taken on board myself. Just try to enjoy the game despite it's flaws. Try not to think about the flaws so much, this is obviously hindering your enjoyment. Enjoy winning the Master League with Huylens etc, enjoy beating people online and your friends. Sure, you can get angry a little bit, but it's just like real football isn't it? The team you support (Boca?) has it's flaws, they may piss you off from time to time, the manager may keep playing a player that every fan thinks is completely useless, but you still enjoy supporting them don't you?
 

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