New Super 'TeamVision' Adaptive AI

[MatTheCat]

Super complex 'Teamvision' Adaptive AI:

Where the game engine AI learns your tactics and alters its strategy to deal with them????

OR....

Where the game engine AI simply allows you to play football for the first part of the game and then closes down all your possible options in the latter part of the game making it increasingly hard to pull off any 'interesting' gameplay whatsoever........(aided and abetted by the AI misguiding your passes and pulling your players out of position)

Discuss.

 

[Cookie]

3 billion human lives ended on October 26th, 2007. The survivors of the nuclear fire called the war Judgment Day. They lived only to face a new nightmare: the war against the machines. The computer which controlled the machines, Konami, sent two New Super 'TeamVision' Adaptive AI back through time. Their mission: to destroy the leader of the human resistance, MatTheCat.

 

[toffee]

'TeamVision' is controversial to say the least. I just read a review of PES2008 in Official Playstation Magazine, and they say they haven't seen any evidence of this Teamvision thing at all.

 

[john4]

playing the demo i havent but it may be that they left it out for that.the thing i would of preffered is them focusing on AI attack so that they know when to shoot,like if i bring my keeper out and miss the ball in a wide area they act like hes still on his line by passing as normal allowing him to get back,rather than shooting.
like David James coming out at the weekend and the reading striker shooting and scoring,PES AI would of waited,then played it backwards.

i think the defense should of been focused on after sorting AI attack,you can pretty much score 1 goal and win most of the time.wrong priorities if ya ask me

 

[futbol724]

AI punishes bad mistakes

playing the demo i havent but it may be that they left it out for that.the thing i would of preffered is them focusing on AI attack so that they know when to shoot,like if i bring my keeper out and miss the ball in a wide area they act like hes still on his line by passing as normal allowing him to get back,rather than shooting.

noooo, that's not true mate, they know the keeper is not on his line, look at this video I just recorded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtOoBOs3rc4

 

[Alij777]

playing the demo i havent but it may be that they left it out for that.the thing i would of preffered is them focusing on AI attack so that they know when to shoot,like if i bring my keeper out and miss the ball in a wide area they act like hes still on his line by passing as normal allowing him to get back,rather than shooting.
like David James coming out at the weekend and the reading striker shooting and scoring,PES AI would of waited,then played it backwards.

i think the defense should of been focused on after sorting AI attack,you can pretty much score 1 goal and win most of the time.wrong priorities if ya ask me

Not the case when that happened to me last night in the PES 2008 Demo. Brought my goalie out barely past the 18 and he slid tackled Tevez. The ball bounced off to the right about 5 feet from the sideline even with the 18 (roughly 35 yards or so from the net). Milito was there and he emmidiatly 1 timed volleyd the ball into the wide open net.
Didn't even try to dribble it. The volley bounced twice before it went in. So they know for sure. I was playing TOP PLAYER too.

 

[MatTheCat]

'TeamVision' is controversial to say the least. I just read a review of PES2008 in Official Playstation Magazine, and they say they haven't seen any evidence of this Teamvision thing at all.

ooh no no no no no no...

It is there all right mate....

Go download this here timepatch..

http://files.filefront.com/PES2008+T.../fileinfo.html

Set time to 15 mins...(Alt-Tab during Formation set up, run patch and click button on right)

And go play 15 min games.....There you will clearly see that time and time again, the opening stages of the match are VERY open but the more the game goes on...the more the CPU clamps u down......till it gets to the point you can barely find a man to pass to outside your own half.......Nothing to do with AI adapting to your game.....Just Same Old Konami AI, always Cheating!

 

[toffee]

ooh no no no no no no...

It is there all right mate....

Go download this here timepatch..

http://files.filefront.com/PES2008+T.../fileinfo.html

Set time to 15 mins...(Alt-Tab during Formation set up, run patch and click button on right)

And go play 15 min games.....There you will clearly see that time and time again, the opening stages of the match are VERY open but the more the game goes on...the more the CPU clamps u down......till it gets to the point you can barely find a man to pass to outside your own half.......Nothing to do with AI adapting to your game.....Just Same Old Konami AI, always Cheating!

Nice one, I have added that time patch and it is there. It's so subtle though, kind of creeps into the nature of play, genius really. Maybe this is why the guys of OPM didn't notice it happening. This is really cool.

 

[MatTheCat]

Nice one, I have added that time patch and it is there. It's so subtle though, kind of creeps into the nature of play, genius really. Maybe this is why the guys of OPM didn't notice it happening. This is really cool.

Aye...it creeps in ever so subtly allright but it aint exactly 'Adaptive AI'....its more a case of the 'AI that will squeeze the lifeblood out of the game......NO MATTER WHAT'

Go on...try setting a few alternative strategies and formations that u can easily switch to and from during play....... U will find they make not a jot of difference.......come the 70th minute....and ur balls are gonna get crushed no matter what.

 

[Dragonfly]

noooo, that's not true mate, they know the keeper is not on his line, look at this video I just recorded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtOoBOs3rc4

That doesn't prove anything. It was like that in PES6 too. I've had a couple of occasions when I've brought the keeper out to tackle a striker, then the ball ends up to one of the CPU's players and they put it away from distance.

 

[mufcsean]

3 billion human lives ended on October 26th, 2007. The survivors of the nuclear fire called the war Judgment Day. They lived only to face a new nightmare: the war against the machines. The computer which controlled the machines, Konami, sent two New Super 'TeamVision' Adaptive AI back through time. Their mission: to destroy the leader of the human resistance, MatTheCat.

:laugh: ahaha mate that is top class

 

[MatTheCat]

Aye...it creeps in ever so subtly allright but it aint exactly 'Adaptive AI'....its more a case of the 'AI that will squeeze the lifeblood out of the game......NO MATTER WHAT'

Go on...try setting a few alternative strategies and formations that u can easily switch to and from during play....... U will find they make not a jot of difference.......come the 70th minute....and ur balls are gonna get crushed no matter what.

Actually.....I have been playing a bit more...and when things get that really tight way...like in 70th minute and a goal down...I went into Formation settings and switched from a tight 4-4-2 to a wide 4-3-3. Instantly felt like I had loads more space and got a goal by the 75th minute......and yes...gradually I got less n less room to breathe as match progressed...

Looks like the way to play NextGen PES2008 is to go in with 2-3 formations set to your tactics buttons that you can switch to when a particular formation seems to start running dry...

Or perhaps I should just reserve making judgement until I am at least 90% certain of a matter...

 

[federer]

Sometimes I have to pass ball back again & again to same players & then finally got free space at opposite wing..., until i really open some space up...
Some times then i m forced to put the ball in air & then lose the possession....
At top level , I was very easy at passing And Finding Space in PES 6...
I was 100% Controlling the tempo ..., but i ll definitely get over it...may be it takes sometime ....

This might have some to do with " TEAMVISION "

 

[toffee]

Looks like the way to play NextGen PES2008 is to go in with 2-3 formations set to your tactics buttons that you can switch to when a particular formation seems to start running dry...

Or perhaps I should just reserve making judgement until I am at least 90% certain of a matter...

Having multiple formations is the way to do it, but if you insisted on using just one formation, certainly get at them early and force the advantage before they've adapted. I suppose it helps to mix your play up too, like if you only played down the flanks then you'd be stuck for options when they find you out.

 

[MatTheCat]

Having multiple formations is the way to do it, but if you insisted on using just one formation, certainly get at them early and force the advantage before they've adapted. I suppose it helps to mix your play up too, like if you only played down the flanks then you'd be stuck for options when they find you out.

Naw...I am finding that if u stick with the same formation...it dont matter what you try to do with the ball.....you just wont have the options....lets face it...the gameplay in the first 2/3rds of the field is pretty limited in PES.....Basically, the AI allows for the consistent ability to pass short along the ground to feet......this is quite impossible if the AI is in front of all your players positions (which it could be 100% of the time regardless of formation or strategy if it really wanted to)

 

[toffee]

Naw...I am finding that if u stick with the same formation...it dont matter what you try to do with the ball.....you just wont have the options....lets face it...the gameplay in the first 2/3rds of the field is pretty limited in PES.....Basically, the AI allows for the consistent ability to pass short along the ground to feet......this is quite impossible if the AI is in front of all your players positions (which it could be 100% of the time regardless of formation or strategy if it really wanted to)

I disagree because it works with me. I only ever use one formation and if they suss out one piece of play there are plenty of other ways to get at them anyway. Teamvision will be more problematic for people with set ways of playing but if you can mix it up it's not a problem.

 

[PacMan]

I disagree because it works with me. I only ever use one formation and if they suss out one piece of play there are plenty of other ways to get at them anyway. Teamvision will be more problematic for people with set ways of playing but if you can mix it up it's not a problem.

Agreed, REGULARLY changing your "style" (long / short passes - lots of passes / individualisms) and which side you to attack from keeps the game open. But if the AI has already closed you down tight, then there's little you can do but change the formation.
I like to play possession football, and I find it works much better against the AI than in previous versions. The more possession football I play, the less I feel the pressure from the opposition, and the more spaces I have throughout the game. Of course, if your players go into idiot mode then it becomes a little harder to produce precise passes.

 

[waylando]

I didnt have the opportunity to "see" this teamvision working, but it has to do something with the fact that i always find myself like trapped in my own field, and the AI winning every ball i pass. The idea of using a formation until it "dries out" is a real turn off for old PES fans like me.. what if you dont like your team to play on another scheme? i mean it takes freedom from you in exchange for the CPU not crushing you. Sucks really.

 

[zeemeister]

Teamvision sounds great. I haven't needed to change formations since pes3 and 5.

You should actually master 3 of them save them to your strategy and just press L1 and square, circle etc.

 

[S-D-P]

this may be sinical but i cant help thinking this is just a marketing ploy rather than an innovation, konami seem to be learning some of EA's dirty tricks. I have no doubt the AI will be improved but it really doesnt' need the smug little names:realmad: