PES2016 Review (PC)

[fatehasfans]

I love PES, but up to a point.

PES 16 isn't a new game, it should have been but it isn't. It feels like a stand alone patch for 15 because it would appear that all Konami have done is simply remove some of the good parts of 15 and add some of the missing things from 15 and voila you have PES 16!

Lets look at some examples:

Good parts taken out of 15...

1). The shooting, which was good in 15, they've messed up in 16, so now whether you lightly touch the shoot button or hold it down there isnt going to be any difference (so the powerbar is pretty much useless), in 15 you had to hold down the shoot and pre-emptively make the space which was fun imo and added a little more skill to shot creation. Now the ball is simply a balloon with no weight at all to it. No feeling either, I score and 'meh' I don't really feel as if my skill was a contributing factor to the goal - scoring leaves me feeling slightly empty afterwards.

2). The animations and physics, in 15 I had no problem, players felt like they had weight and the collision system worked well and the animations fitted the movements the players made. But in 16 they've sped everything inadvertently by adding extra animations so when you line up a few tricks consecutively there isn't enough time for this to be realistically portrayed so the animations skip and you end up with it looking a little jittery and skittish.

3). Passing, having tried all pre-set passing modes (passing assistance) in 16 it would seem that there doesn't seem to be any consistency between them for I've noticed certain passes (quite easy passes at that) simply won't go to the person you're aiming for so in effect these options are missing, whereas in 15 I could eliminate that problem by changing (lowering) pass assistance.

Added the things that were missing from 15...

1). Cursor change, whereas in 15 it was quite sluggish, in 16 it is much more responsive and all the better, but at what cost?

2). Player response time, compared to 15 players in 16 respond much faster to loose balls situations which is good, although as mentioned above because of the animation skips and inconsistent player motions things can get a little like sensible soccer (defenders getting sucked behind attackers in an instant and almost comedic manner). All becomes a little Benny Hill (cue Benny Hill music).

3). Ball in the air options, greatly improved from 15, within the first 2 games I managed 3 overhead kicks and a handful of volleys, things that were missing in 15 where you basically had little control over what happened in the air whereas now if you want to volley simply wait for the ball to drop lower than chest height if you want an overhead kick position yourself under the ball with your back to goal - definitely much better.

Overall, if I am honest I have to say 15 is better. I prefer the meatier shots and the heavier weight to the players. However, I am a person who likes a bit more realism over arcade action and I think 15 felt a bit more like a simulator so it gets my vote.

How to score this game?

Well, considering that it (PES 16) offers nothing new in terms of graphics, interface and sound (sorry but I detest Peter Drury what's worse is in PES 16 he sounds like Ned Boulting (another soulless ITV drone) who I also detest, and doesn't actually build on anything good from 15 (because they've simply taken them away or changed them for the worse) means that this game feels like a patch. In fact the more I think about it the more it could be for at the beginning of PES 15's release Konami stated that they wouldn't be creating any further patches that would alter the gameplay of 15, where they basically saving that for 16? Also, everything else seems to fit - the team changes are the exact same team roster for Arsenal is the exact same as 15, even Diaby is still there! I was wondering why the updates just suddenly stopped way last year, ok I can understand the gameplay not being touched (which is ok I like the gameplay in 15 as it is) but what happened to Data packs? There were none!

So the more I think about it the more it makes sense. Konami is in crisis, so what's the cheap option? Simply stop putting money into the creation of patches for the current (15) game and use those resources instead to create a patch (I was going to say 'larger patch' but it's not, for I wouldn't have minded paying the money as long as the team were actually up-to-date but sadly they're not) that they can essentially call a new game because blatantly that's what it is, a gameplay patch nothing more and as we approach the release of the new game don't bother releasing a demo for the PC that could potentially reflect any of this. It all makes sense.

So I've paid for a poor patch that if I had downloaded from PESEdit.com I would have deleted - the shocking thing is with PESedit at least you get the real team kits and rosters on top of the gameplay changes with this effort from Konami you get none of that! It just goes to show how much I have been ripped off. Luckily I bought through Steam and managed to get a refund!

So onto the verdict

Considering the above

6/10

However, if PES 15 had never existed then...

7/10


P.S. I must mention tackling, in 15 the AI would sometimes go on these little runs where nothing you did could win back the ball so all you do was track and try to pile on more pressure, hoping for a bobble but when the computer cranks it up you simply don't get the ball (the ball will even go through your players legs when you try to block - and I don't mean nutmeg!), and wait it out, thankfully this didn't happen very often, around 1 or 2 spells per 30 min match (they often score too! You know that moment they pull one back so it's 30-1? Those moments).
Well, in 2016 on a higher difficulty I found that not only did this happen in much greater frequency but on top of that your tricks on the whole were pretty much redundant. The AI just sticks in a leg and takes the ball no matter what and their closing down ability is just alien-esque, it's totally unrealistic. A big drop in realism here, and it was at that point I realized I needed a refund or I would have headed over to the Konami offices with an Uzi and a handful of grenades.

P.P.S. On a final note about Adam Bhatti, he's just a PR puppet, but sadly for Konami the wrong one. It's another example of Konami, and the East in general, not fully understanding the business culture of the West. Bhatti talks the talk but underneath it all he's just another one of those sale-people who call to your door in a sharp suit trying to sell you Broadband or TV like Sky/Virgin/BT but you know they're actually street
-rats underneath who have the gift of the gab, are quick to agree with you on everything, go straight for your pet, and stink of cigarette smoke, but boy are they groomed. Poor Konami don't know that Adam is one of those people and he's wriggled his way in. Now he can simply adopt PR strategies, such as deleting negative comments only allowing positive comments about himself, to blur the truth further. He really is a piece of work but given today's social web-climate it's not surprising.

 

[Parkinfed]

Please explain more about shooting. Have they changed/tweaked the advance, basic and manual options? Does advanced shooting now work? Please.

 

[fatehasfans]

Hi Parkinfed,
The shooting has been redone, which makes you wonder do they (Konami) ever want to build on something? Seems they don't. There is pretty much no differences between Basic and Advanced shooting in 16, whereas in 15 if you changed to basic there was a noticeable difference in the amount of time you could hold down the shoot button (it decreased) so shots where much more snappy and quicker to get off if that's what you wanted, at the cost of variation, and with Advanced (as you probably know) you had much more options but there was a greater delay.

Given that I preferred the Advanced method of 15 (the delay) and the options that came with it, 16 takes that away and you are left with the Basic style (so shots fire off quicker) and I wouldn't mind so much if what you did made sense and had consistency and what I mean by that is there is no consistency across the pitch to your shots, so what worked in the last third doesn't work in midfield etc etc, which although you will think sometimes "wow that was a nice shot I haven't seen that in 15" the inconsistency and lack of any great feeling drastically reduces the satisfaction in scoring.

Also, in the last third I can knuckle pretty much 100% Which brings us back to PES 14 era, although this would seem cool, the knuckle isn't the same and doesn't have the same variation - so they quickly become repetitive misses or same goal types within a short space of time.

Personally I think they should have kept the 15 system but added this system as a third setting option i.e. Semi-advanced.

Hope this helps.

 

[Parkinfed]

Ok, thanks

 

[EthanLionel]

Good stuff OP. You have a talent in writing. I enjoyed reading your review.
Just like you, I still prefer last years game. Shooting and passing is definitely better last year.

However, I'm starting to appreciate the current game. Maybe because I'm getting used to it already or maybe because my offline PES playing friends are playing it already, and I have no choice but to play it.

BTW, It's really hard to define this games as either simulation or arcade. If you think about it, PES2015 on manual passing is simulation but at the same time it's still arcady in terms of dribbling and predictability of what's going on. It's a fun combination though.

 

[fatehasfans]

Good stuff OP. You have a talent in writing. I enjoyed reading your review.
Just like you, I still prefer last years game. Shooting and passing is definitely better last year.

However, I'm starting to appreciate the current game. Maybe because I'm getting used to it already or maybe because my offline PES playing friends are playing it already, and I have no choice but to play it.

BTW, It's really hard to define this games as either simulation or arcade. If you think about it, PES2015 on manual passing is simulation but at the same time it's still arcady in terms of dribbling. It's a fun combination though.

Thanks for your kind words on my writing ability.

Sticking with the game though, I'd like to mention that each and every PES game as far back as PES 2008 suffers from a bad case of split personality, as I'm confident most who have had experience playing all modes would have noticed.

But to those who don't quite understand what I mean. Well, I'm stating that the game can play differently in different modes or difficulties, but alas! Isn't the game is supposed to change when you vary the difficulty? I hear you say? Well, yes it should but only in relation to actual difficulty level (in that the AI plays better within fair and equally fixed parameters).
So, does this happen? Well, no, sadly, it doesn't. This is where the split personality comes into play.

Let me illuminate:

I am an experienced player, so say I create an offline 1 player game with my favourite team (for this example Arsenal). My controls would be consistently sharp and responsive, my (AI controlled) players smart, quick and consistent with runs and support, my touch and technique both consistent and accurate, my shots and passes varying nicely in accordance to the controls I implement i.e. slick, accurate and again consistent. So overall, everything, more or less, is working as it should and when I want.

Ok, now lets change the mode...

So, after that game, I decide to take my favourite team online or into an offline 2 player mode. This is where things change and quite dramatically.
My controls are no longer sharp and responsive, in fact they are at times quite the opposite with consistency changing rather sporadically and everything else is affected by this. So when this inconsistency occurs (randomly) player (AI) runs no longer happen with passing options and support becoming severely diminished. Passing itself becomes sloppy and often inconsistent, something that was a simple short pass in the previous game becomes a misplaced howler in the second all things equal. It's the same with shooting, the whole variation on shots changes becoming extremely limited add to this the periodic slowdown of overall response times with player behaviour particularly affected (ever get those moments where your players begin to behave really stupidly, either letting passes go past them, turning when you didn't want, or simply not responding at all until the moment to retrieve or intercept the ball has gone?). So in effect the game has altered, not the difficulty. It's like a completely different game, one that you have to actually learn. Hence the split personality.

This is one of my biggest problems with PES and FIFA, it is heavily linked to scripting, also known as rubber-banding (in racing games), and has all but killed my desire to play the game competitively because I know the mistakes being made are usually not my own and for large parts of the match control of the game is largely out of my hands and instead in the AIs.

Thus, in earlier reviews of PES I have never really considered the negative impact this has had so never included/mentioned it in my reviews, because like I said earlier, it is something has been inherent in the series since as long as I can remember. But something has changed, something happened: A few years ago I played a kid, who I was babysitting, a game of PES14 and to give you a heads up he had never played the game in his life whereas I (a veteran of the entire series) had played for 14 for about 8 months, skipping over the fine details to cut a long story short the game ended up 3-3, but for 90% of the game it just felt as though the computer was playing for him, winning his tackles (crowding me out, players he wasn't even controlling), constantly pushing his team forward and it seemed all he had to do was the very basics (he loves football so he knew the basics), every deflection (what luck!) went straight back to his players etc etc and again and again he just ended up in front of my goal with minimal effort and all he has to do was press shoot then for about 30 seconds my players would come to their senses and respond normally allowing me to equalise but only before it went back to being unresponsive and grossly unfair again. So, after that match I had a long think and it was at this point I felt it was too much - that Konami had interfered too much in trying to create a game whereby everyone (from all skill levels) can enjoy and compete - forcing balance.

I have begun notice that this is something that is becoming stronger and more prominent in the newer series, for when we (me and the kid) played a game of 2008 I destroyed him 20-0, which to be honest is a fair reflection of my experience meeting his inexperience. In other words how it should be.

So, when I play these games now I always test them (all modes) as part of my review to see whether this has changed and in PES16 it's still there - you only need to enter the Champions League on highest difficulty to watch your team play like bananas and the AI just run through your tackles like your men are paper-cut-outs, yet put it on easy and suddenly things return to normality, passes straighten, support arrives, controls are responsive etc etc.

I have tried 16 in both of the mode-types I mentioned and admit that BAL on easy is the game-type I like most because it removes most of these 'scripting' elements which affect the game in a negative way, but still I prefer the overall way 15 plays. The build up, the shots, the touches of control and pace of the game, the feel.
I'll admit (like I did in the initial review) that 16 has nice little touches too, particularly when it comes to the ball in the air, and additional player reactions which makes the game look a little more realistic. On top of that the corners too have been refined somewhat, providing a greater variation on outcomes in the box which is nice and I will say there are some nice additions to the animations and lets not forget the ability to your celebrations is nice (even if it has the longevity of a small chocolate bar).
So there were some nice things implemented in 16 but as I said earlier in my review too many things have been taken away, so instead of thinking ..."Yea I can't wait to have another game to experience that thing again." I quickly remember..."Ohh wait that's changed and this doesn't work and those bits are like this now (worse than before)"...which puts me right off.

Personally, I would have loved the Konami to have built upon what was achieved in 15. Working with it, in addition to some small changes such as actual physical player fatigue and random injuries (with variations of injuries happening) or changes in performance with the impact of tackles being accumulative, even the possibility of a broken leg, which may sound a little sadistic but if done with taste it could really increase the level of realism, it all adds up! Having the stretcher brought on for severely injured players etc, etc, because what I've come to notice is that the small things that can really make a difference to a game, little touches usually go a long way.

I'll save my ideas for another post but I hope this gives you a stronger view of where I stand with the game.

 

[LEGOFLAMB22]

Wrong - pes16 is superior in every way.

The only bad stuff are the keepers but pes15 was so bad because of broken controls they could have made the game perfect apart from that and it'd still be unplayable.

 

[fatehasfans]

Wrong - pes16 is superior in every way.

The only bad stuff are the keepers but pes15 was so bad because of broken controls they could have made the game perfect apart from that and it'd still be unplayable.

Although this (opinion) is completely subjective, you realize I'm talking about the PC version right?

On top of that, did you even read the review? Your blanket response would suggest otherwise for if you had indeed read it then you would note that the main point I made was that bits have been swapped from both games AND not to forget that I also go on to praise certain parts of 16, so how can this answer be simply "wrong"? Do tell.

To query your point on PES15 controls, which controls setup do you use and in what way are they 'broken'? I had problems with passing and shooting in 15 for a time until I configured them properly to suit my needs but I would say that cursor changing and the occasional pathing problems still occur, problems that have plagued the entire series I might add.
But overall, in the given game mode (see post above), 15 is a marvel to behold, so much depth and creativity to be exploited from a control perspective. The same doesn't apply to 16 because when you begin to queue consecutive tricks and combine those with pressing in the analogue stick (to activate the 'lift-ball' ability) the animations simply can't keep up and in the end it just looks and feels a little silly (on top of not actually working), second to that the proximity and weight of players is wrong, it's as though they are now skating above the ground like flash-animations in almost 1 dimensional form. I really think that although it looks slightly more realistic when moving slowly when you begin to run quickly and attempt multiple tricks everything quickly looks and feels very unrealistic, sorry but 15 wins out here.

Just to end as well, if you haven't read my second response I also point out that PES suffers from split personality so if your answer to that is also "wrong" then I would love you to elaborate. Thanks.