Viva La revolution. - An alternative view

[Dmahn83]

Now theres a few negative topics that just keep popping up time and time again and the intention of this thread is hopefully to put a more posative twist on things, get people thinking differently and hopefully not ruffle too many feathers along the way.

Most people seem to agree that:
1. The AI in some way shape or form is polluting the hallowed world of football with its sneaky little bug's and well how can i put it.
Its Taking the p*ss! (you've all benefitted and fallen at its knees so i don't think its necessary to explain)
2. Nobody likes cheesers (apart from cheesers themselves)
3. Subs really do make a difference
4. Form and those little coloured arrows are all important.

Ive been struggling in MLO so with £30m in the war chest (after a total clearout) i've decided to start over again with a new team with the above points in mind.

Now instead of just bitching and moaning about the AI, I wondered why is it that sometimes your all conquering players seem to forget what it is there on the pitch to do and just stand idly by as arshavin or whichever cheesy star player walks round the pitch slots the ball in the net and genrally sh*ts on your shoes.

Now lets just suppose that Mr Seabass and his little hoard of goblins actually thought about making the game more realistic than we all realise. Maybe they realised that most people out there would go for certain players (messi , ronaldo, ribery et all) and so they made the AI bugs to level things up for all us sh*t players. Think about it a little, do Barcelona, Real Madrid and the rest always win? err No. Is Ronaldo or Messi always man of the match? No again. Have they got all the best players? Yes (more or less).

So how come the lesser teams can beat them, is it formation, cheating, maybe its luck, maybe certain star players lack motivation and cant be arsed, or the oppositions just puts in some good old hard work?

Obviously a players individual shooting, passing and technique stat have a bearing in the PES world but i know your all aware of that. So of the other stats available to all players maybe the players ability to perfom has something to do with:

1. Responsiveness - The ablility to spot and react to whats going on
2. Agility - Being able to actually do something about it
3. Teamwork - Actually being bothered to do something about it.
4. Form - Doin something about it consistently well.
5. Balance - Being like Vidic not Nani.

Couple these with a bit of speed and acceleration and maybe were getting somewhere.

So I've built a team based on all players having the following:

Form 7
Responsiveness 75
Agility 75
Teamwork 75
Balance 75

We'll see where it gets me, I could be on to something (which judging by my last 8 games of 4 wins 3 draws and a loss, for me this is good trust me, i could be) or maybe I'll fall flat on my arse and the game really is fixed. But at least Im trying to think about and solve the problems instead of just whingein and complaining about them all the time.

Well thats it, its a bit longer than I wanted but its all in there.
Please feel free to berate me, or maybe you agree with me or have your own suggestions,

 

[Montanaro]

IMO, the game is too stat driven. If you have enough personal skill, you can make do with lesser players. But whenever I play ML and have a superstar team, I always feel like I'm pressing buttons, not playing. Their stats are so good, that it makes the game too easy, you almost never have to really aim shots or keep your OWN composure in front of net, you never really have to build up play or play creative passes.

But when I use lesser players, I've actually got to think "is this shot/pass/tackle" within my player's and my own ability? If not I've got to rethink on the fly. With top players the mentality is "press shoot"

 

[Svisma]

What became your line up then )?

 

[Dmahn83]

That's the best bit no superstars.
Gk foster to be replace
Lb salcido
CB Hilton
CB Johnson
Rb chimbonda
Lm susso
Dm ilner
Cm Fletcher
Rm hadji
Am Cahill
Ss munitis

 

[Svisma]

That's the best bit no superstars.
Gk foster to be replace
Lb salcido
CB Hilton
CB Johnson
Rb chimbonda
Lm susso
Dm ilner
Cm Fletcher
Rm hadji
Am Cahill
Ss munitis

Looks great. I hope you make it to the top :monkey:

 

[Dmahn83]

I doubt I will but stranger things have happened. After 8 games I'm yet to scream shout or swear at the Xbox n am enjoying the game again which is the most important thing of all.

 

[Svisma]

I doubt I will but stranger things have happened. After 8 games I'm yet to scream shout or swear at the Xbox n am enjoying the game again which is the most important thing of all.

I hear you. I think I play well but its the last pass or and the shoot. I hate when players have a superstarteam and they haver to shout out every goal they make - Cmon - Stremer Vs Messi

 

[gunnerglow]

after my ps3 went faulty (twice in 2 months 80005014 error) I started a new MLO account.

I also took these things into account...

Teamwork 80+
Tenacity 80+

i have now been promoted to div2 after 3 successive promotions. my squad is barely worth £30million.

The one thing i have done differently is listen to the crowd. It seems the momentum is linked to the crowd noise. If i am at home and they start jeering and moaning I am in trouble, so i adjust and keep the ball.

Imagine an invisible teamwork bar that rises/falls dependent on how the match plays out. Too many bad passes and it drops, so does your luck. Some nice passing and a shot on target and the bar rises, so does the responsiveness of your players.

Understand what i mean? really has made all the difference for me.

Also i have 20 man squad, all form 4+ mostly 5's and 6's. I never need to play any down form arrows. This is also key. Diego capel or Elia on a red are much more effective than messi on a purple, do not place all your eggs in one basket

 

[Dmahn83]

I hear you. I think I play well but its the last pass or and the shoot. I hate when players have a superstarteam and they haver to shout out every goal they make - Cmon - Stremer Vs Messi

I think stremer v Messi is one of the reason why the cheesers out there dont like us with the lesser teams (but i get the point m8), I mean surely stremer should be sh*t but somehow he owns everyone.

Try Quagliarelli or Munitis up front M8 both around £3.5 mark and seem to be some kind of attacking machines (or as WF or SMF).

 

[Dmahn83]

The one thing i have done differently is listen to the crowd. It seems the momentum is linked to the crowd noise. If i am at home and they start jeering and moaning I am in trouble, so i adjust and keep the ball.

Imagine an invisible teamwork bar that rises/falls dependent on how the match plays out. Too many bad passes and it drops, so does your luck. Some nice passing and a shot on target and the bar rises, so does the responsiveness of your players.

Like it M8, this is the sort of stuff I'm after.

Take my beloved Fergie, (crap now everyone hates me ) he's always said the crowd in home european ties is like having an extra man, so if Konami have made the most realistic football game ever (as they claim), why wouldnt they work this kind of thing into the game?

 

[Svisma]

I think stremer v Messi is one of the reason why the cheesers out there dont like us with the lesser teams (but i get the point m8), I mean surely stremer should be sh*t but somehow he owns everyone.

Try Quagliarelli or Munitis up front M8 both around £3.5 mark and seem to be some kind of attacking machines (or as WF or SMF).

True. But most of the players who has Messi have 'cheated' imo.

You have a PM btw

 

[Dmahn83]

True. But most of the players who has Messi have 'cheated' imo.

You have a PM btw

Think I've replied now m8,

Think its a bit strong saying those with Messi have cheated, I mean making the money to afford him is an achievement in itself (unless you actually did cheat).
Suppose its just down to personal preferance more than anything else, some people want the star players for whatever reason, whereas some of us like to make it a bit more challenging.

 

[alx-9]

True. But most of the players who has Messi have 'cheated' imo.

I wouldn't say cheated, just played a lot of (empty) tournaments. As I've mentioned in other threads, the division 1 and 2 tournaments can be grinded very easily as there aren't many people in them. So a spot in the last 16 or quarter finals is often guaranteed.


Anyway, I like the sound of your little experiment, although I think some are reading too much into certain things (crowd noise...). Good luck, I hope you get some satisfaction from it.

 

[Dmahn83]

I suppose the purpose of my experiment is to see if the players moments of madness are down to the game being fixed or if they can avoided through looking at certain stats for the players.

I mean my actual ability at the game isn’t in questions, on my day i can give anyone a game but most of the time I'm pretty average and sometimes like last night i can be sh*te.

After Monday nights storm up the rankings from 464 to 489 points I got promoted back up to Div 4, so last night I embarked on my week of trying not to get relegated again.

Guess what, I took my first 5-0 thrashing (from a bloke in Div 5), this chap wasn’t a bad player at all although he did like the “jesus pass” through balls a bit. Up until the 60th minute or so it was 0-0 and then my Keeper Foster makes a mistake (he was the only one I couldn’t afford to change so he doesn’t fit in with the experiment) why would a decent goalkeeper just watch a soft cross go about 1 foot above his head and then just turn round to watch the striker knock it in? This p*ssed me of enough to change my tactics a bit and from there on to be fair to my opponent I took a thrashing.

Next game against a chap from Div4 with a good team, all started well until Foster loops a save up in the air for Gerrard to nod in from 1 yard out. I just though why the f*ck do I bother and well gave up if Im honest, not to take away from the fact my opponent then took me apart from there on and the game ended 5-0 again.

I dont mind loosing to a better player (the div there in doesn't matter either) what I can't cope with is loosing when your players just f*ck up over and over again. So far since I've changed my team round the only player that's lost all sense of what they should be doing is my GK Foster.
To keep with the experiment I resisted the urge to use the money I’d saved to sign Quagliarelli and Foster has been replaced with Coupet. From now on there are no more excuses and hopefully no more player f*ck ups.

 

[waywardcloud]

nice thread. when i first bought my players i looked at condition first, then responsiveness and finally balance. for my wingers looking at agility. for my stikers header accuracy and strength. because i love to clear from the back line and have my striker trap it and pass to a running winger or back to my midfielder.

 

[Dmahn83]

I like the teams that people have actually taken a bit of time to think about, it just makes sense to me that you pick players to fit your formation and how you like to play.

I've seen your side in the MLO thread m8 (looks pretty good to me) and theres a couple of players in there that would fit my little experiment, Park, Gourcuff, vargas and I think Fabregas.
Would be interested to know if any of these players have the little moments of madness that some people experience, as that's probably the main reason I started this thread.

 

[waywardcloud]

i think all the players have some sorta response issue. sometimes i twist and turn too much with fabregas or vargas to maintain possession and when i m stripped, there is a delay, not as much as some of the lower players i had once but still there is a delay which really irrkkksss.

one of the last matches i played, i had a horrible time clearing the ball, i dont know what it was but since i usually play against ppl with 3 forwards, its a good strategy to clear using square and have your forward scrap it up. but for some reasons if i was stripped of the ball my defenders would stare as my opponents forwards just pick up the ball.

 

[alx-9]

Again, I think some people are reading too much into a certain stat causing 'moments of madness'. I have an excellent team in MLO and I still get the same crazy shit everyone has. Its not the stats, just a lackluster bit of programming whcih causes defenders to ignore the ball, switching players 10 times a second, delayed sliding tackles, etc.

 

[waywardcloud]

Its not the stats, just a lackluster bit of programming whcih causes defenders to ignore the ball, switching players 10 times a second, delayed sliding tackles, etc.

yep

 

[Dmahn83]

Again, I think some people are reading too much into a certain stat causing 'moments of madness'. I have an excellent team in MLO and I still get the same crazy shit everyone has. Its not the stats, just a lackluster bit of programming whcih causes defenders to ignore the ball, switching players 10 times a second, delayed sliding tackles, etc.

That was the main reason for picking the players I have and starting the thread, everyone says its bad programming but as far as I can see nobody has tried to find a solution.
So far since getting the players I have (based on certain stats) i haven't had 1 'moment of madness', you might not believe me but every game I've lost has been my fault (but I suppose its easier for people to blame the game).
Yes the game is still scripted towards the lesser teams the performances of stremer etc just dont add up and some of the through balls are beyond belief, but a better player should still be able to beat them.
As far as I've seen so far there are things you can do to limit the problems.