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Why FIFA still lacks gameplay depth.

Addi10

Registered User
Hey all,

This is a fairly lengthy post but should satisfy a few people.

I have had FIFA since the day it came out, and have played it quite a lot. Haven't played PES yet because it isn't out in Australia yet. The more I play FIFA now, the more I hate it. It is the same boring thing and the exploits in the game are as obvious as a 5 star hotel in Baghdad.

Anyway, I am on the FIFA forums and have been having a debate about the things FIFA lacks in gameplay. The points myself and others have come up with have certainly shut up a few people.

I will give you a basic idea of where FIFA is still behind in terms of gameplay.

Off the ball movement
In FIFA, you can trigger player runs with the L1 button. But, it is a pretty bad feature. The only direction players run is forward, forward, and forward. Only 1 player will make a run, causing you to press the button numerous times, sending the same 2 players on a running fit. There is no way to really keep the ball and play passes, because the AI is too stupid, and thinks it HAS to stay in it's designated position for the whole game, even if you have the ball with a striker and can't run forward because of the defence, you try to pass it back but there is never a supporting midfielder.

If you have a shot on goal, it hits the post and goes behind your strikers, in real life, there would be a midfielder charging in for the rebound.

This brings me to think about PES. The one thing PES has always dominated FIFA with is the movement off the ball. There is always 3/4/5 players running into open space to provide an option, no matter what position they are playing. If you are a midfielder, you generally get strikers checking in, wing backs opening up and the other midfielder dropping into space. There is so much variety in the way you can build up with the ball. It is exactly like real life in that aspect, something FIFA really lacks.

If you have the ball in FIFA, the rest of your team falls asleep until they get the ball, which they then take a few seconds to realise the ball is at their feet, alas, it is too late and the striker has nipped in and taken the ball.

This brings me to my next point, responsiveness.

Responsiveness
I remember reading someones post a few months back on the FIFA forums. They said: "The one thing that ruins PES is they fact that you can shoot and pass whenever you want, instead of waiting until you are at the ball."
This made no sense to me, at all.

In real life, if you want to unleash a shot, you're brain tells your body to strike the ball. Same goes in video games, you tell a striker to shoot, they should shoot, no matter where the ball currently is, they should make the effort to get the shot away as soon as you press the button.

In FIFA, on numerous occasions, they real scripted gameplay shows its true colours.
You tell a player to shoot, but he won't, he will decide to touch the ball once more, so the ball is perfectly positioned, and then shoot. Sorry, this just isn't football.

In PES, if you want to shoot, the player will shoot, thats all there is too it.

How Predictable?
The next point is how predictable FIFA is. There is generally always one way to score, in every FIFA game. Unfortunately, this year is no different. All you have to do is knock a through ball ahead of a zippy attacker and behind the defence, you break away 1v1 and slot it past the keeper. Last year, it was the almighty cutback.

PES, gives you different ways to score. You might score a breakaway once, but you won't be able to do the same thing again. This forces the user into playing a unique style of football. Meaning you have to keep the ball and play triangle passes to make your way in and around defenders. This is something that isn't possible with FIFA, whenever I try to knock the ball around near the box like PES, my players are either ball watching, or the defenders get the ball. So Arsenal style goals aren't possible at all really, especially on the harder difficulties.

Summary
If you didn't read any of that, here is a little summary.

FIFA lacks depth in off the ball movement forcing you to play a one dimensional kick and chase style of football. The responsiveness of players is appauling and mostly frustrating at best. It is far too predictable to score in FIFA, there is the same way of scoring every goal, and the same sweet spots to shoot from.

At first, FIFA seems great with the flashy graphics and animations, but once you scratch this paint off, everything beneath the surface is horrifying.

They need to improve those things to be close to the uniqueness and longevity of PES.

Looking forward to the release of PES in Australia, hopefully it lasts me longer than 1 month.

Addi.
 

Addi10

Registered User
By the way, I am hoping I get a reasonable response about this rather than the crap I usually get on the FIFA forums, "Oh you're just bad at the game, learn to play it" or "Here is a great goal I scored, you can play good (but no, it is a shit goal which everyone has scored 50 times already)"
 

ehsancgfx

Registered User
Totally agree with you. Fifa is not even close in terms of gameplay and the amount of joy and excitement u can achieve ..
 

RN50

Registered User
nice read but i disagree with the jus 1 part where in both games players mak stupid runs in the games.

For example my CMF has the ball and my LM is making a run then suddenly stops and im like WTF are u doing run mother Fucker im sure this happens in both games but i damn wel pisses me off.

is there a way in pro 2 make him run??
 

aoAaron

Registered User
i thought players off the ball movment in fifa 2008 was better than fifa 2009.

pes's off the ball movement pisses me off sometimes too. :/
 

FIORE_FAN

Registered User
Thank you very much for this insight!
Since I still only have both demos, I haven't been able to get such a deep insight in the game. But somehow, all what you're saying actually does make sense, even after (only) playing the demo a good many times! I just wasn't able to put words into it - I think you pretty much hit it spot on here.
What I've always found great about PES is the fact that you always feel totally in control of your formation, players and how you want those to interact together. Something I think has been one of the downsides of FIFA - but since I've only played the demo - I didn't know if they'd actually improved on that. Aparently not!
Thank you very much for this thread! Thumps up!
 

Addi10

Registered User
Another thing to mention.

In FIFA, your team plays the way the manager wants them to play. In PES, the team plays the way the individual thinks is right, such as in real life. If I am a right back, and I see space into the center, I will push into there to recieve the ball.

FIFA forces you to learn how to play FIFA, not football.
 

TheMemoman

Registered User
nice read but i disagree with the jus 1 part where in both games players mak stupid runs in the games.

For example my CMF has the ball and my LM is making a run then suddenly stops and im like WTF are u doing run mother Fucker im sure this happens in both games but i damn wel pisses me off.

is there a way in pro 2 make him run??

I totally get it man, it's like "Why the fuck are you stopping! I thought you were going!" And my through ball goes to hell...
 

proevofan88

Registered User
Yeah FIFA was amazing for me the first few days....and now i cant wait to get pes and start a amster league.

Seriously tho....FIFA is awsome in the beggining but then just gets so repetetive. goals are not satisfying at all. I never found myself screaming about a goal.

--In pes when i score a tough goal i yell out things like 'GOLASOOOOOOOOOOOO' or WHAT A GOAL!!!! lol ....

IDK how a fifa fan can play that game till next years iterations lol.

FIFA 09 overall a 8.1 and its the best fifa no doubt but pes is for me.
 

RN50

Registered User
Yeah FIFA was amazing for me the first few days....and now i cant wait to get pes and start a amster league.

Seriously tho....FIFA is awsome in the beggining but then just gets so repetetive. goals are not satisfying at all. I never found myself screaming about a goal.

--In pes when i score a tough goal i yell out things like 'GOLASOOOOOOOOOOOO' or WHAT A GOAL!!!! lol ....

IDK how a fifa fan can play that game till next years iterations lol.

FIFA 09 overall a 8.1 and its the best fifa no doubt but pes is for me.


i knw exactly what u mean, i was playin with inter and just could get past the Lazio Defense for some reason, had Cruz and Bolitelli playing as Ibra and Adriano were on blue arrows. When Cruz finnaly scored in the 70th min i was like finally goallll!!
 

trigglebeef

Registered User
I find my teammates AI on Fifa to be miles better than Pro Evo, they move into space much more. I agree about the responsiveness though, Fifa at times does feel slightly scripted, and therefore ignores your instructions. If it had the spontaneity of Pro Evo then it would be ridiculously good. The through balls are annoying as fuck too. Last night I wanted to rip Andy Johnson out of the screen and tear his bald ugly head off. I thought i'd got the hang of "legendary" difficulty setting and then Fulham smash me 5-1.
 

TIGERS_FAN

Registered User
Another thing to mention.

In FIFA, your team plays the way the manager wants them to play. In PES, the team plays the way the individual thinks is right, such as in real life. If I am a right back, and I see space into the center, I will push into there to recieve the ball.

FIFA forces you to learn how to play FIFA, not football.

hmmmmmmmmmmm in real life im sure the manager would want his team to play the way he wants them too
 

Gaffa08

Registered User
hmmmmmmmmmmm in real life im sure the manager would want his team to play the way he wants them too

I can't be bothered to argue so I'm not... :)

However, in football the manager tells all 11 players the basics of what he wants. Players like C.Ronaldo and Gerrard are told what position to play, whether its a free role or not, but because their influential players the manager wouldn't mind as much.

Have you seen Rio Ferdinand? Daniel Agger? Do you think the manager said, "right I want my CB's bombing forward"? No lol... Its all down to flare and that players intelligence.

All I'm trying to say is its not scripted, managers are mainly their to give the team a starting point, confidence and keep them organised. Its down to the teams ability to pull it off. :)
 

TIGERS_FAN

Registered User
I can't be bothered to argue so I'm not... :)

However, in football the manager tells all 11 players the basics of what he wants. Players like C.Ronaldo and Gerrard are told what position to play, whether its a free role or not, but because their influential players the manager wouldn't mind as much.

Have you seen Rio Ferdinand? Daniel Agger? Do you think the manager said, "right I want my CB's bombing forward"? No lol... Its all down to flare and that players intelligence.

All I'm trying to say is its not scripted, managers are mainly their to give the team a starting point, confidence and keep them organised. Its down to the teams ability to pull it off. :)

my god! have you actually ever played in a football team before!

ofcourse he wants agger to bomb forward hes good at that so is rio what he will say is dont go past a certain point to leave your other defenders exposed

come on anyone with a footballing background knows that
 

Gaffa08

Registered User
my god! have you actually ever played in a football team before!

ofcourse he wants agger to bomb forward hes good at that so is rio what he will say is dont go past a certain point to leave your other defenders exposed

come on anyone with a footballing background knows that

I really can't be bothered to explain how football works to you. Sorry. :fplm:
 
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