Pes 2015 is a scam!!!

rebelinho said:

When I'm playing with my mates there's one of them who always fucking uses RM, and brags about "how fucking well he plays and how nobody get take the ball from him". Disgraceful.

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You have to school that asshole, haha.

rebelinho said:

I have videos in my laptop of goals I've scored in PES2013 after a 80 meter :triangle: + :circle: pass. Not one, not two, but dozens of them. It was kinda fun, but plain stupid.

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It was plain ridiculous. The worst one was the throughball from kick off. The cheapest most dirty rotten cheat ever. I see people tryin to do this to me still, even players rated in the 800's. I love seeing them fail.

rebelinho said:

As I've been saying for a long time now, this isn't a game for people without patience or that want a straight forward, easy going game. This takes time, practice, defeats and fails to master. It's up to each one of us if we want to suffer in order to succed, or if we want to play FIFA.

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Yep. It's a game with a bit of depth as far as I'm concerned. Defending properly took me a while to figure out properly, but it's within the scope of the design of it to get better at it. It's a game that just needs figuring out and as you say patience. No doubt alot of people as have been seen think thats bollox. Each to their own.

rebelinho said:

It is, but not to that degree.

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I don't agree its broken at all. It has alot of things that can be improved, but I don't find them gamebreaking. Then again, its completely subjective what is.

Rat Monkey said:

I don't agree its broken at all. It has alot of things that can be improved, but I don't find them gamebreaking. Then again, its completely subjective what is.

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I should have been clearer: shooting is perfectly fine, the game is broken in other aspects, such the lack of crossing from the AI wingers, etc. But yes, sometimes it can be subjective

rebelinho said:

I should have been clearer: shooting is perfectly fine, the game is broken in other aspects, such the lack of crossing from the AI wingers, etc. But yes, sometimes it can be subjective

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EDIT: Ah, your talking about aspects of the game, where I thought you meant overall, which is what I meant. I suppose from that point of view, yes, it's a little broken. The refereeing certainly is often enough. Overall in terms of the whole game, its doesn't break it for me.

Good stuff from the 2 posters above me.

These "veteran reviewers" needs to convince us first, that they actually know how to play the game. Most of these reviewer's obviously suck in this game and naturally, they hate the game.

Been there, done that. Hated the game for the first couple of weekends. Playing with my cousin, a rival(LOL) of mine in PES6, he always defeat me in PES2015. And there are streak the my score is zero. Maybe because I don't know what I'm doing and so I'm not having fun.

I almost quit the game but suddenly it just clicked because I actually tried to practice and learn it.

Rat Monkey, when I say competitively I meant online, perhaps I should have been clearer.
Secondly, I think your attack on me was a little harsh. You're right I haven't given this game a great deal of time but when I play I find there isn't one game here but about three or four depending on the difficulty and game-type (Champions League, BAL etc) selected. To provide a context for the basis of my argument, I am currently playing as Arsenal in the Champion's League, as I am an Arsenal man and no matter how bad they are portrayed in games I will always use them.
Anyway, back to the point I would like to make. When I play the Champion's League with Arsenal on Regular difficulty the amount of control I am given is regulated and inconsistent and it is this that I dislike the most. My players are ALWAYS slow while theirs (AI) are fast, mine don't pass or shoot anywhere nearly as effectively while the computer can sting in shots from everywhere, not to mention turning on a dime and then half turn back when it so wants and then burst away with accelerate in a blink. It doesn't step in (yet I have too!) to get the ball and tricks are nearly redundant as the computer simply backs off and just takes the ball off me because, as I mentioned before, my players are always too slow at implementing anything. When something does work, like a pass or a bit of play it is because the computer is simply allowing/permitting me to have that piece of control and the game feels entirely different when this happens (like bouts of advantage play) and that's what I mean by it being 2 or 3 different games in 1 - one minute tackles work and passes hit the mark and things seem to work, the next nothing works and everything becomes exceptionally sluggish and unresponsive, even though no in-game changes have been made it is simply unexplainable - you get a little bit of advantage then the computer gets it. In fact the gameplay can be so inconsistent that it can feel like a different game every game (no pun intended).
Let me explain... The first game in the group stages is against Napoli and the game usually ends in a draw and can be a hard-fought battle throughout. The second game is against Galatasaray who are a little easier, then the games after that (Anderlecht) become very unpredictable until the Semi-final and final which become extremely predictable (at being grossly unfair) and it is a case of putting the controller down or resetting the competition in order to play the first rounds again.

My main concerns are as follows:

1). Tackling can be useless - computer simply dime-stops and bursts the other way when it wants. It can change direction mid-movement (impossible for human players to do) as it read which commands you make on your analogue stick. This leads to a sub-problem of getting carded all the time - now don't get me wrong tackling can work when the computer allows you the control I was talking about earlier but when it turns off the tap it all becomes rather useless!

2). Problematic AI, what I mean here is that my players never seem to make smart decisions, assist me with darting runs or change their formation pattern no matter what tactics or formations I have implemented. For example, when I play Napoli in the first CL match they always counter attack down the wing then look for the middle runner or they just cut to the goal-line and work their way in going through my men like they where holograms when they so choose my defenders are nearly always chasing from just inside my own half (or outside the semi-circle) which means I am very vulnerable when they decide to simply put on the after-burners during which I normally see Higuaín just speed away from Koscielny (this is another gripe - their player WITH THE BALL simply peels away from my incoming defender and Koscielny is no slouch in real life). So, besides those "speed" issues I have no control over this led me to look at Napoli's formation (which is 4-2-3-1) to see if they had an advantage but since I also use this formation (as it is one of Arsenal's real life formations) they don't so there is no difference here (I also looked at their gameplay styles etc). So, bar that (the fact that on the field they can simply create their own formation, I wanted to try and stop my defenders from always getting caught in the same position (i.e. middle of the park chasing from seemingly the back-foot) and to do this I decided to give a few different things a chance. I enabled fluid formation and changed all three formations to defensively coincide and counter what the computer was always doing by pulling all of my players with the exception of the striker into my box area. Did any of these new fangled options work? No, of course not - my limited options going forward remained the same, exactly the same, and getting caught at the exact same position at the back still occurred in funny enough the exact same way, EVEN IF I WENT INTO EDIT AND CHANGED NAPOLI'S FORMATIONS THE EXACT SAME SITUATIONS OCCURRED!!- so this highlights and proves that the computer simply controls what is going on and permits you to do things when it wants.

3). Same old pathing and lack of total control - look, you can defend this game all you want and that's fine but there is no denying that it still carries the same limited pathing mechanics from all the previous games and in fact there is even less here now because of what I mentioned above - passing is extremely limited and linear where you are mostly bottlenecked into my short range passes and hoping for a rare computer mistake - also some buttons and functions simply don't do a bloody thing. Jockeying for example, whereas in PES 14 you held down X to lock onto a closing player here they try to implement the same thing and it simply doesn't work. Hold R2 while breaking your fingers trying to hold R1 and manipulate both sticks is simply not practical, if it actually worked, so it is perhaps a blessing that it doesn't. By the time my player begins to line up with opposing player they simply change direction and move ahead and I am left trailing and playing catch-up and trying to rearrange my fingers. Also, long balls have no viable range and only work when you use it to play piggy in the middle at medium range, the through-balls go up in the air like balloons and never seem to drop over or in front of a running player (like they did before in the previous games) and now appear to have no low arc whatsoever so there is little or no variation. I rarely use through-lob because of this. However, on top of those problematic points (there are more but its nearly 4am and I'm tired) there is no real empowering freedom in terms of passing range, the friendly AI players are so stupid and the passing so restrictive that ultimately your options are extremely limited to where you end up playing it around in the hope that some mistake occurs and it is usually in the form of one of your own passes not going where you wanted even a few feet away! In short, same old miss-bounces, same old headers (no range, and 90% over the bar during corners or just hit soft and low to the same 2 points) same old times where your player doesn't jump, or simply gets out-jumped, for a 50/50 header, need I go on?

4). All the little bugs - Players (momentarily) stopping or running (momentarily) in another direction when giving chase which allows your opponent the freedom to have a shot on goal (happens in all game types). So many times I have witnessed Mertesacker just run to the side (not the way I am pushing), slow-down or stop (momentarily) thus effectively allowing the computer a free route on goal. The same occurs all over the pitch, be it a loose ball that I am favourite to get but my player doesn't do anything or simply moves in the opposite direction then miraculously "recovers" (funny enough) when the chance of getting the ball has gone. This problem has many forms and happens in all game types.
i.e. THE SAME GLARING SHIT THAT HAS EXISTED IN NEARLY ALL THE GAMES IN THE SERIES!

Look Rat Monkey, there is plenty more I could bring up and I could also challenge you on all the other comments you made earlier too, however I simply don't have the energy at the moment. I could also relate this to the other versions of PES too and really emphasis my points. But my main problem is that overall, I FEEL (as the points above are just personal opinion and all in my head of course) that player control is diminishing with each instalment. I may not know the game inside out, like you, but I have enough experience to know when a game is broken, and this game is clearly broken (IN MY OPINION OFC, ignore above). So once you show me a way to change all this stuff I will begin to praise the game. Until then I'm afraid it's all pretty much negative.

Just on a last note, which I will make positive, in between all those problems there are good moments and I really wish they (Konami) would go full simulator on this and slow the pace down (I myself play 1 bar speed) and at that level it feels like a real game, I did the same with PES 14 (which personally I feel is the best in the series (bars ISS pro evo 2 on the PS - with that context) but like I mentioned in another thread, before you laugh, you need to make quite a few changes to the game such as manipulating Executables and option files to get the game to a point where it is good, but when you get it to that point it is very satisfying.

I want to like this game, it has something in amongst all the shit that is salvageable and even though it has some glaring problems I am drawn back, but that's the Asian arcade mechanics instilled in it so ultimately when the computer wants to score it will score and there is nothing you, or I, can do about it.

Who knows maybe Konami will release some patches, since Pesedit aren't prepared to clean up their mess any longer.

P.S. I do hope you're talking about the PC version as I am, because I hear on consoles it is much better.

rebelinho said:

I should have been clearer: shooting is perfectly fine, the game is broken in other aspects, such the lack of crossing from the AI wingers, etc. But yes, sometimes it can be subjective

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the gameplay in pes is superb , iv'e never doubted that but you can't honestly sit there and tell me the corners, freekicks, penalty's 1v1's counter attacks and other AI aspect's is better in pes than fifa.

Rat Monkey said:

You've been hitting the bar 90% of the time because your using advanced shooting. Advanced hits the ball high when pressed towards goal no matter how little power you use. The game is not broken. You don't even know what the controls are for the game, which makes it look like you haven't even played this game much at all to even judge it properly. I can only conclude myself from all your posts that your completely thick. You may not be a puppet but certainly are a muppet.:w00t Your more than welcome to think of me what you like.

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To answer this point also, my current play settings are 1 bar Pass Support and shooting is set on Advanced. This is how I have played since PES 13 and I have had nowhere near the same amount of problems with either 13 or 14 compared to 15. Furthermore, to suggest that by not playing on full manual I am somehow less a player or that it is somehow less a game is absolutely ridiculous. If useless (which they seem) then why are these options even there? In fact by helping emphasise this (that advanced shooting is practically useless) you have helped validate a point for me - why is it even there?

Secondly, manual isn't all that. I have tried to use manual and put countless hours into practicing it but I find it to be far too inconsistent to be of any real benefit to me. If anything my options are even more limited because you do not get complete freedom with your shots, far, far from it if anything because of it being so massively inconsistent you lose some of your playing freedom/options.
Sure the ball doesn't fly up into the air like Advanced but even just to get the ball to travel in a straight line can be a challenge so to attempt to go beyond anything other than slightly to the left or right of centre is practically impossible and also requires more preparation in your run-up - the lack of direction means that the options given in Advanced are actually greater. On the whole manual shooting in nothing more than a broken novelty. Yes, you can perhaps hit the odd 30 yard low drive but other than that it becomes rather farcical. I have put countless hours into trying out various methods of striking and run-up positions combing different direction types with varying levels of power. Most of my shots where not consistent with the direction pressed and this is consistent with every form of timing attempted.

To provide you with some examples I can explain some of the shot tests...

For my shot position (this remained fixed) I would approach the goal (running from left to right) and from just outside the right side (my right) of the large keeper box (near the outer corner point - a great place to attempt left-footed suppressed curling shots aiming for the top left corner). So with Ozil, Giroud and Welbeck and Sanchez (but mainly Giroud and Welbeck) I would attempt various shots, the aiming method would be to move the analogue to the top right position (as I am hoping for the top left corner) and use around half power bar or just over half - the result? Wide by a great margin. I would do this 10-20 times to gain an average - the average being that something different happened every time, either the ball blazed over centrally or it went wide again - that same carbon-copy wide shot.
Second, aim type, moving the stick to slightly above East position, and same power as before the ball would just fizz wide. Doing this for another 10-20 times yielded even more inconsistent results but mostly the ball would just fizz low and wide,
Third, I would aim below East position (heading toward bottom right) and the results there were just utterly random from being ballooned over straight to just wide right to completely wide right.

I did the same from the other side of the keeper box (coming in from the left corner of the outer keepers box), and yielded more inconsistent results. All-in-all the only thing that was consistent was running from a central position or any left-central or right-central position and aiming straight at the goal. This would usually produce a shot parried by the keeper, anything even to the smallest fraction left or right yielded wide or over shots (depending on power).

I won't even go into detail about the headers, first time shots (if your player ever reacts quick enough) or standing shots (perhaps immediately after doing a trick or turn), let’s just say that the latter movements created even greater inconsistency in shot outcomes all of which meant that you suffered an even greater lack of shooting options by switching to manual.

In short I have tried and tested manual since 13, very vigorously and can safely say that if you try to tell me that you are somehow offered more freedom and expression in your shots then you are sorely mistaken. True you don't hit the ball off the bar as much and to a limited extent you can decide the flight of the ball, however the outcome is so inconsistent, unpredictable and ultimately linear that I found Advanced to offer much more scope in terms of other things that I am permitted to do. In PES 14 with those settings (i.e. Advanced shooting) I can set up a shot and tell you where I am aiming for and using a certain power bar setting and control stick movement I can hit that point to a very high consistency and when under pressure or when conditions are varied I can still usually hit that mark if I compensate power and direction. With 15 its just baloney.

Even though I have tried and thoroughly tested manual shooting (and passing - in 13, 14 and 15) and believe it to be extremely inconsistent and actually more limiting than using Advanced (well for 14 anyways, in 15 Advanced is a joke as every shot just hits the bar or balloons over) I'm sure you will tell me that it works fine for you and by way of absurdity that you can hit the eye of an eagle from 50 yards np 100%. Well sir, considering my efforts I can safely say with a large degree of certainty, that's bollocks.

fatehasfans said:

To answer this point also, my current play settings are 1 bar Pass Support and shooting is set on Advanced. This is how I have played since PES 13 and I have had nowhere near the same amount of problems with either 13 or 14 compared to 15. Furthermore, to suggest that by not playing on full manual I am somehow less a player or that it is somehow less a game is absolutely ridiculous. If useless (which they seem) then why are these options even there? In fact by helping emphasise this (that advanced shooting is practically useless) you have helped validate a point for me - why is it even there?

Secondly, manual isn't all that. I have tried to use manual and put countless hours into practicing it but I find it to be far too inconsistent to be of any real benefit to me. If anything my options are even more limited because you do not get complete freedom with your shots, far, far from it if anything because of it being so massively inconsistent you lose some of your playing freedom/options.
Sure the ball doesn't fly up into the air like Advanced but even just to get the ball to travel in a straight line can be a challenge so to attempt to go beyond anything other than slightly to the left or right of centre is practically impossible and also requires more preparation in your run-up - the lack of direction means that the options given in Advanced are actually greater. On the whole manual shooting in nothing more than a broken novelty. Yes, you can perhaps hit the odd 30 yard low drive but other than that it becomes rather farcical. I have put countless hours into trying out various methods of striking and run-up positions combing different direction types with varying levels of power. Most of my shots where not consistent with the direction pressed and this is consistent with every form of timing attempted.

To provide you with some examples I can explain some of the shot tests...

For my shot position (this remained fixed) I would approach the goal (running from left to right) and from just outside the right side (my right) of the large keeper box (near the outer corner point - a great place to attempt left-footed suppressed curling shots aiming for the top left corner). So with Ozil, Giroud and Welbeck and Sanchez (but mainly Giroud and Welbeck) I would attempt various shots, the aiming method would be to move the analogue to the top right position (as I am hoping for the top left corner) and use around half power bar or just over half - the result? Wide by a great margin. I would do this 10-20 times to gain an average - the average being that something different happened every time, either the ball blazed over centrally or it went wide again - that same carbon-copy wide shot.
Second, aim type, moving the stick to slightly above East position, and same power as before the ball would just fizz wide. Doing this for another 10-20 times yielded even more inconsistent results but mostly the ball would just fizz low and wide,
Third, I would aim below East position (heading toward bottom right) and the results there were just utterly random from being ballooned over straight to just wide right to completely wide right.

I did the same from the other side of the keeper box (coming in from the left corner of the outer keepers box), and yielded more inconsistent results. All-in-all the only thing that was consistent was running from a central position or any left-central or right-central position and aiming straight at the goal. This would usually produce a shot parried by the keeper, anything even to the smallest fraction left or right yielded wide or over shots (depending on power).

I won't even go into detail about the headers, first time shots (if your player ever reacts quick enough) or standing shots (perhaps immediately after doing a trick or turn), let’s just say that the latter movements created even greater inconsistency in shot outcomes all of which meant that you suffered an even greater lack of shooting options by switching to manual.

In short I have tried and tested manual since 13, very vigorously and can safely say that if you try to tell me that you are somehow offered more freedom and expression in your shots then you are sorely mistaken. True you don't hit the ball off the bar as much and to a limited extent you can decide the flight of the ball, however the outcome is so inconsistent, unpredictable and ultimately linear that I found Advanced to offer much more scope in terms of other things that I am permitted to do. In PES 14 with those settings (i.e. Advanced shooting) I can set up a shot and tell you where I am aiming for and using a certain power bar setting and control stick movement I can hit that point to a very high consistency and when under pressure or when conditions are varied I can still usually hit that mark if I compensate power and direction. With 15 its just baloney.

Even though I have tried and thoroughly tested manual shooting (and passing - in 13, 14 and 15) and believe it to be extremely inconsistent and actually more limiting than using Advanced (well for 14 anyways, in 15 Advanced is a joke as every shot just hits the bar or balloons over) I'm sure you will tell me that it works fine for you and by way of absurdity that you can hit the eye of an eagle from 50 yards np 100%. Well sir, considering my efforts I can safely say with a large degree of certainty, that's bollocks.

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For the life of me, I have absolutely no idea why you think 1., I said I use manual and 2., even beyond that how I went on to suggest your a lesser player for not using it. In fact, to all of your post in this regard................WHAT??? Also, the extra inferred bit about what I would say to you considering your experiences with manual, about being an eagle and shit! THAT'S ALL BOLLOCKS!:laugh: You've got your wires seriously crossed.

All I said was, was that the reason your hitting the bar all the time with even little power is because your using Advanced. People who don't know the controls, or haven't even bothered to look them up in the game which is the main problem to begin with, have had the same problem as you. You need to direct away from goal to shoot low on Advanced. Actually, it explains everything about it in the game.

I haven't used Advanced or manual this year, so have no comment about it. I only use basic, which is excellent. I might test the other two out of interest. I believe manual shooting was broken in 14. Well, it was when I tested it last year. Don't know if they fixed it. I've no other comment regarding your post except burn the game!

Rat Monkey said:

For the life of me, I have absolutely no idea why you think 1., I said I use manual and 2., even beyond that how I went on to suggest your a lesser player for not using it. In fact, to all of your post in this regard................WHAT??? Also, the extra inferred bit about what I would say to you considering your experiences with manual, about being an eagle and shit! THAT'S ALL BOLLOCKS!:laugh: You've got your wires seriously crossed.

All I said was, was that the reason your hitting the bar all the time with even little power is because your using Advanced. People who don't know the controls, or haven't even bothered to look them up in the game which is the main problem to begin with, have had the same problem as you. You need to direct away from goal to shoot low on Advanced. Actually, it explains everything about it in the game.

I haven't used Advanced or manual this year, so have no comment about it. I only use basic, which is excellent. I might test the other two out of interest. I believe manual shooting was broken in 14. Well, it was when I tested it last year. Don't know if they fixed it. I've no other comment regarding your post except burn the game!

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The reason I got my wires crossed is because your comments on me using advanced seemed very intuitive and on the money. This led me to believe you used manual and the rest is history.
Let me just say something first, ofc I knew about hitting the ball into the ground by pulling back but that doesn't help me for everything else (wanting height) so shooting is still very much broken.

Assuming you used manual actually led me to try new things, but overall they don't work very well (manual shooting and passing etc). They are still extremely inconsistent and just down right daft most of the time - but it does mean because of this my scoring ratio goes right down which I guess makes every goal special.
Anyway, enough of that, back to the game - Rat, I really want to like this game mate I really do, and there are moments of sheer class as I commented to a friend "Once you play 15 you can do things that make you see 14 differently and not want to go back".
However, that's where the dream ends, the game simply has too many glaring problems (read my earlier post which I'm not sure you did) which I simply cannot ignore. If you didn't read my first post then here are a few quick recapped points (after playing it none stop to see if anything could be done differently, or if I had missed anything).

1). The AI is simply too unfair and it controls too much of what is going on - from players not responding, momentarily running away from the ball, cursor not changing at the right moment, players stuck in the mud, players being knocked off the ball from odd and unrealistic angles, always getting sucked behind opposition players, tackle directions changing at will (usually in AI's favour), never getting free-kicks while AI can knock you to the ground over and over, players not making runs (while the computer always seems to have a perfect back 6 every time I try to quickly counter from my own box).

2). Pathing - ball flight is utterly inconsistent, not only are half the passing options pointless but we're restricted even more in terms of getting the ball forward quickly, same limitations with headers and volleys and the level of ball control in general is still very arcade-like - i.e. straight lines, I mean Konami have been improving these games since 1995 and still we don't have 360 degree manual passing control and where is the manual swerve or backspin? I mean we had actual manual backspin for International Superstar Soccer 64 on the N64 if anyone remembers - in that game when you made a long ball pass you simply centred the analogue and the pressed back or forward depending on whether you wanted back or forward spin when the ball landed, and we still don't have these things in the modern versions? 20 years later!?!?!?!

3). Fast link up play - this is something that has annoyed me for a long time now and is tied to the last point, this game always begins to fail the moment you attempt fast-close-control play because of the pathing and direction limitations you cannot pass quickly between players at close range in an intricate manner, so although you may be a creative person the game simply cannot deliver as players tend to start bumping into one another or running across each others path and the passing direction simply doesn't cater for it.

I could go on Rat, but I have made my point earlier in the first post of my last two responses to you. I do like parts of this game but very quickly I end up hating it because so much is broken or not improved. Some elements of the passing are spot on but more often than not when you try the same again it doesn't work.
Overall, it's a start but 20+ years in the making? I'm sorry, it's simply not enough, hence my rough view on it and when I say I'm a veteran of the series it's because I am and if you have played since 1995 then so are you, and just on a last note I used to play Emlyn Hughes International Soccer on my Spectrum long before anything like Sensible Soccer came out. Oh, and just like Commodore owners, apparently Amstrad owners were dicks too! JK

fatehasfans said:

1). The AI is simply too unfair and it controls too much of what is going on - from players not responding, momentarily running away from the ball, cursor not changing at the right moment, players stuck in the mud, players being knocked off the ball from odd and unrealistic angles, always getting sucked behind opposition players, tackle directions changing at will (usually in AI's favour), never getting free-kicks while AI can knock you to the ground over and over, players not making runs (while the computer always seems to have a perfect back 6 every time I try to quickly counter from my own box).

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It has bugs, sure, but those momentary stops are rare. The cursor has always been a little buggy from time to time. None of it happens often enough in my experience to wreck the game, although I'm not saying its acceptable either. Getting sucked in behind the opposition is a problem if you hold A/X or sprint and A/X. It sucks in this regard and has been discussed in another thread by myself aswell, but I don't hold down A/X anymore. I manually sprint a little by the shoulder of the attacker to get position on them in order to get leverage on them and don't suffer this very much anymore, except when I get my positioning wrong and move in too early.

I don't really experience tackles changing direction, but tackling can be a little iffy as its the AI that controls when you tackle when holding A/X. If your positioning is not almost perfect, it can very often be hit and miss when and whether the AI will attempt the tackle. Positioning is alot harder now as its completely manual which I love, except the auto tackle with A/X which can make it more unforgiving than it should be if your positioning is alittle off. The AI wants almost perfect positioning to consistently get it to tackle when you want. I started a thread on that a while ago(no one was interested), as I think when you press A/X it should just be a manual tackle.This cuts out the AI deciding when to tackle as I know there are tackles I could have made even though I was a little out of position and the AI then decides it won't or times it wrong. I actually only use A/X like this and press it only when I'm making a tackle, but its still hit and miss if your positioning a little off. Thankfully, the game does allow you to get great positioning with the manual jockeying and auto tackle works very well with it. So, I find defending rather good in the game, but needs improving and making A/X just a manual tackle would make it a perfect system for me.

Free kicks defintely need improving. I do get free kicks off the AI, but it only really happens if you beat the AI at close range with a change of direction or pace. I have had times when the AI has cut through me and got away with it, but doesn't happen over and over for me. This can happen on superstar from what I remember and thats largely due to momentum, but I haven't played that level in a while as my defending was shit at that stage as it took awhile to get good at manual positioning.

The AI makes runs for me, but it also depends what your attacking style is in team instructions how often they will. You use Arsenal, as do I, their default style is possession which means they won't run forward as often. Thats because they will just find whatever space is available to receive an unobstructed pass, which usually means they'll drop back into space to receive the ball as the opposition is defending the attacking space. Use the counter attacking-attacking style in team instructions to trigger runs more often by the AI, or use one twos and manually trigger runs with possession style. Draw players out of position to make space for your own in behind the opposition. They will make runs for you. Maybe you haven't delved much into team instructions yet and what each option will give you. They all have pros and cons and are important to understand and get the most out of the game because you understand why your team is behaving a certain way.

I don't find the AI has a perfect back 6 all the time or even anytime(6 maybe an exaggeration?), or at least I haven't noticed because there is a lot of ways to break them down. I've also scored many goals from counter attacks where the AI's defense was exposed with little numbers, especially counters from my own box. Your experiences are different than mine.

fatehasfans said:

2). Pathing - ball flight is utterly inconsistent, not only are half the passing options pointless but we're restricted even more in terms of getting the ball forward quickly, same limitations with headers and volleys and the level of ball control in general is still very arcade-like - i.e. straight lines, I mean Konami have been improving these games since 1995 and still we don't have 360 degree manual passing control and where is the manual swerve or backspin? I mean we had actual manual backspin for International Superstar Soccer 64 on the N64 if anyone remembers - in that game when you made a long ball pass you simply centred the analogue and the pressed back or forward depending on whether you wanted back or forward spin when the ball landed, and we still don't have these things in the modern versions? 20 years later!?!?!?!

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Fair enough with the straight lines, but I don't find it a problem. I'm used to creating space and dragging the opposition out of position to make my passes. I like the passing, I think its very good. Being able to bend it around opponents with assisted controls might make it a bit too easy and arcadey to beat your opposition with a pass, but I do like the idea of it. It maybe would only really suit manual, but thats not really popular so I can't see it being implemented.

I don't find anything inconsistent about ball flight. Half the passing options being pointless I don't find, but I understand what you mean by it because you can't bend short passes(at least I think that is what you mean). I don't find them pointless, because sometimes the pass isn't on because the opposition is marking your players tight and you can't pass it forward fast as a result. You have to create your space and opportunites. It's realistic and satisfying in this regard to me.

I used manual passing last year a little bit towards the end and it was 360 degrees. Haven't tried it this year.

I remember pes on the n64. A cracking game, but a complete arcade one. The ridiculous goals you could score from miles out with the crazy bend you could put on the ball, although it was serious craic scoring them especially on mates. I remember there was nearly always one go to player in a team for this. Its very much like the knuckle shot we have now, which is very hard to pull off especially if the player doesn't have that ability, but its there and shouldn't be easy.

fatehasfans said:

3). Fast link up play - this is something that has annoyed me for a long time now and is tied to the last point, this game always begins to fail the moment you attempt fast-close-control play because of the pathing and direction limitations you cannot pass quickly between players at close range in an intricate manner, so although you may be a creative person the game simply cannot deliver as players tend to start bumping into one another or running across each others path and the passing direction simply doesn't cater for it.

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No, the passing direction doesn't cater for what your talking about but it does create realism in another ways. Passes aren't always on and the opposition can have covered space and be marking your players very closely. So, you have to pass it back, across the pitch, dribble past an opponent, or run into space to pull the opposition out of position to create space and passing options. This is realistic. Being able to bend every ball shouldn't be a way around this or even a way to guarantee nullifying it, as the game will become linear as you can forget about having to create and earn space in the different ways you have to now depending on the situation. Being able to bend the ball around players shouldn't be able to stop these other parts of the game as you should have to learn and earn beating teams by using them also. Otherwise you are able to ping it up the pitch with ease all the time. That's not realistic either and too easy and boring. If it could be implemented into the game without making it easy and arcade like and not nullify those other things I mentioned, it would be cool though.

I have lots of times in games that I have fast link up play. Some from quick counters from corners. Alot of the time is when I've had to create space and passing lanes/options by dragging the opposition out of position first in whatever way I feel is appropriate to the situation. Then my players are available in good positions for me to step on the gas. I have to earn it though alot of the time. I like that.

fatehasfans said:

I could go on Rat, but I have made my point earlier in the first post of my last two responses to you. I do like parts of this game but very quickly I end up hating it because so much is broken or not improved. Some elements of the passing are spot on but more often than not when you try the same again it doesn't work.
Overall, it's a start but 20+ years in the making? I'm sorry, it's simply not enough, hence my rough view on it and when I say I'm a veteran of the series it's because I am and if you have played since 1995 then so are you, and just on a last note I used to play Emlyn Hughes International Soccer on my Spectrum long before anything like Sensible Soccer came out. Oh, and just like Commodore owners, apparently Amstrad owners were dicks too! JK

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I don't see parts as broken as you do because I have either found ways around them that are not just work arounds for flaws in the game but work realistically, e.g. not being sucked into defenders by manually positioning myself, but I also see the game differently than you and how you want to play it and get from it. I also don't experience the flaws as much as you, e.g. players being pushed over all the time, players momentarily running from the ball or stopping, bad cursor changes.

I played matchday 2 myself, class game in its day. Led to alot of fights! I also had a green screen, none of this pretentious colour shit with 8 colours like you Spectrum nobs. Amstrad owners were salt of the earth. Spectrum owners on the other hand are rampant paedophiles who all should be in jail!!!

It amazes me just how much you can cover over these problems with practically zero apathy, though I guess if you really love a game you don't notice the problems as much as others do.

You talk about the problems as if there is a way around them and I would love to share your enthusiasm but I have tried to smooth over or find a way to avoid them, however, for me anyway, no matter what I do the problems are still there and too great to ignore.

You talk about realism of passing, well I see the same limited pathing issues - you mention not being able to pass directly in front while a player is blocking your view, this does occur a lot but you should be able to bend your passes (low and high) so I wouldn't have a problem with going backwards or side-wards if this could be done. Secondly, the passing doesn't create realism "in other ways" it creates tunnelling, it is not real for me to always have to turn around and go back every-time someone stands in front of me, and when this happens I am then limited to whatever else is open (or whatever option the computer has provided for me) - this is what I mean by too much computer control - I am forced back and this happens over and over as there is no alternative.

Furthermore, this "realism" simply doesn't offer the freedom that real realism (whoa my head hurts) offers, you speak of pulling the opposition out of position but what you really mean is tunnelling around until the computer has provided you with an outlet, considering that your own players tend not to make any kind of smart or supportive runs above the odd wing run (which again is like waiting on a bus). The AI support is so poor that you are left with fumbling around the back again doing side to side passes waiting for your little opening, and yea that's real when you can do all the other stuff too, but since it's pretty much the only thing you can do, besides the extremely odd through ball that works, you're stuck/left tunnelling.

On the problems with controls, I am utterly baffled that none of this affects you. If you look at all the previous games in the series there has always been inconsistencies in terms of trick implementation, in other words sometimes the trick would not execute on a certain area of the pitch (almost like black-spots), but none so more than this game but this is not so much down to the 'black-spots' but rather an unresponsive control system. So many times I go to implement a trick and nothing happens (and I'm talking about the easy tricks) or happens extremely late thus losing me the initiative, or the computer simply backs off then when the trick is over (I don’t actually go anywhere) it simply steps in and takes the ball, at least in 14 on harder difficulty you could lure the opposition in and then dupe them with a trick when they over-extended. In 15, even if you do manage to dupe the computer (like once a year) it simply slows you down, somehow bumbles you off the ball or sticks out a magic toe out so all in all the tricks are now pretty much redundant (as a means to provide initiative or gain space). On top of that, the sprint (double tap) just works when it wants i.e. when the computer permits - that being when Beginner/Amateur difficulty is selected or there is no threat to goal. Funny enough when I'm looking to burst away on a counter or when I have just passed an AI player it just stops working so the computer catches me easily, on the other hand the computer can just burst away when it sees fit – oh and outrun my players while it in possession of the ball, which is simply depressing and utterly unrealistic. The same can be said for the animations not matching what is happening on the pitch – too inconsistent, especially given that this is how you “read” the game, what is the point of trying to anticipate what the computer is going to do when it can skip a movement animation and change direction and leave you behind while it bursts away with sprint. It can do things that border cheating or bending physics – but this stuff only happens when the computer wants its goal, usually on higher difficulties or online. You should try playing as Arsenal in the Champions league on Regular settings, play the whole tournament and then get back to me…this is how I am judging the bad stuff.

However, when I edit the players and max out their abilities the computer compensates and the game becomes like a Benny Hill video. But at least my passes and shots are more consistent. Anyways, try what I said above, play as default Arsenal in the Champions League on regular difficulty then come back here and tell me your thoughts.

Good luck!

fatehasfans said:

It amazes me just how much you can cover over these problems with practically zero apathy, though I guess if you really love a game you don't notice the problems as much as others do.

You talk about the problems as if there is a way around them and I would love to share your enthusiasm but I have tried to smooth over or find a way to avoid them, however, for me anyway, no matter what I do the problems are still there and too great to ignore.

You talk about realism of passing, well I see the same limited pathing issues - you mention not being able to pass directly in front while a player is blocking your view, this does occur a lot but you should be able to bend your passes (low and high) so I wouldn't have a problem with going backwards or side-wards if this could be done. Secondly, the passing doesn't create realism "in other ways" it creates tunnelling, it is not real for me to always have to turn around and go back every-time someone stands in front of me, and when this happens I am then limited to whatever else is open (or whatever option the computer has provided for me) - this is what I mean by too much computer control - I am forced back and this happens over and over as there is no alternative.

Furthermore, this "realism" simply doesn't offer the freedom that real realism (whoa my head hurts) offers, you speak of pulling the opposition out of position but what you really mean is tunnelling around until the computer has provided you with an outlet, considering that your own players tend not to make any kind of smart or supportive runs above the odd wing run (which again is like waiting on a bus). The AI support is so poor that you are left with fumbling around the back again doing side to side passes waiting for your little opening, and yea that's real when you can do all the other stuff too, but since it's pretty much the only thing you can do, besides the extremely odd through ball that works, you're stuck/left tunnelling.

On the problems with controls, I am utterly baffled that none of this affects you. If you look at all the previous games in the series there has always been inconsistencies in terms of trick implementation, in other words sometimes the trick would not execute on a certain area of the pitch (almost like black-spots), but none so more than this game but this is not so much down to the 'black-spots' but rather an unresponsive control system. So many times I go to implement a trick and nothing happens (and I'm talking about the easy tricks) or happens extremely late thus losing me the initiative, or the computer simply backs off then when the trick is over (I don’t actually go anywhere) it simply steps in and takes the ball, at least in 14 on harder difficulty you could lure the opposition in and then dupe them with a trick when they over-extended. In 15, even if you do manage to dupe the computer in 15 (like once a year) the forces that be simply slow you down and the computer catches up or bumbles you off the ball or sticks a toe out so tricks are now practically useless (as a means to provide initiative or gain space). On top of that, the sprint (double tap) just works when it wants i.e. when the computer permits - that being when it is on Beginner/Amateur difficulty or when I am no threat. Funny enough when I'm looking to burst away on a counter or when I have just passed an AI player it just stops working so the computer catches me easily, on the other hand the computer can just burst away when it sees fit – oh and outrun my players while it in possession of the ball, which is simply depressing. The same can be said for the animations not matching what is happening on the pitch – too inconsistent, especially given that this is how you “read” the game, what is the point of trying to anticipate what the computer is going to do when it can skip a movement animation and change direction and leave you behind while it bursts away with sprint. It can do things that border cheating or bending physics – but this stuff only happens when the computer wants its goal, usually on higher difficulties or online. You should try playing as Arsenal in the Champions league on Regular settings, play the whole tournament and then get back to me…this is how I am judging the bad stuff.

However, when I edit the players and max out their abilities the computer compensates and the game becomes like a Benny Hill video. But at least my passes and shots are more consistent. Anyways, try what I said above, play as default Arsenal in the Champions League on regular difficulty then come back here and tell me your thoughts.

Good luck!

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My lack of apathy is because some of the problems don't happen often to me, which I clearly said.

I didn't say there is away around all the problems, there certainly is with being sucked into the attackers shoulders when attacking. The other problems, as I've said, don't happen often. You probably think they are all over the place because you obviously get nothing out of the game and every little thing annoys you. Yes, I said every little thing because alot of your problems don't happen all the time.

The passing IS realistic in other ways. Even if you could bend the ball, do you actually expect to be able to make a pass all of the time? Teams in real life have to go backwards or try different things to create space, i.e you need to be creative. Bending the ball shouldn't stop this being part of the game as that is unrealistic itself. I don't think you get my point here.

I don't use tricks because they are gimmicks to me. I mostly beat players with a turn of direction and pace. This is also what players in real life normally do. The games before 14 had no 360 degree control, so it made this practically impossible because you couldn't get the angle to beat a player at close range. It either went too close to the player and he won it or too far to his side which means you didn't get ahead of him and he caught you. Nonsense which made all the game from 07 to 13 a bore for me.

Double tap is initially tricky when your sprinting at normal speed as the computer only reads it as two taps between each touch. As each touch on normal speed are quickly after each other it can be tricky to execute, as you need to do it quicker than sprinting as obviously there is more time between each touch. This maybe affecting you pulling off tricks, but I don't use them so it doesn't concern me and its not part of my game normally. I sometimes use the "tricks" with holding the R stick in one direction then L stick in the other which can be quite effective. Once you start sprinting the double tap is easy too pull off and there is no magical AI interference affecting it, thats nonsense. The computer doesn't catch me easily with fast players either. I'm certainly not affected by it or notice anything out of the ordinary because I tend to be able to pull off what I want to do, or know what when wrong when I didn't, not withstanding the odd bugs now and again.

Animations being skipped and physics been bent? Rubbish. Maybe, your talking about the odd bug that you may be exaggerating, none of which I've noticed in that context.

I'm doing a league at the moment and I'm in the champions league. I'm in the group stages. Real have beaten me once 2-1 and I've beaten the rest and completely dominated them on Top player. I wouldn't even be arsed with Regular as its far too easy, never mind playing through the champions league because there is nothing special about it compared to playing the league. I don't need to get back to you because well, I've already explained that.

Rat Monkey said:

I'm doing a league at the moment and I'm in the champions league. I'm in the group stages. Real have beaten me once 2-1 and I've beaten the rest and completely dominated them on Top player. I wouldn't even be arsed with Regular as its far too easy, never mind playing through the champions league because there is nothing special about it compared to playing the league. I don't need to get back to you because well, I've already explained that.

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Play as default Arsenal in the Champions League on regular - your team will/should move at half the speed of the opposition for most of the game. I play every other version of PES on Superstar difficulty and bar AI cheating I can hold my own and win most games, so this is puzzling because it is simply impossible at times to do anything - but I am also playing on manual passing and advanced shooting, or at least I was.

If the things that I mentioned above don't happen to you on the settings above then I must have a difference version of the game - puzzling indeed, mine is the steam version for the PC (obviously). If you lived near Belfast you could come around to my house and I'll point these things out and you can attempt the impossible, trust me I want to witness it because whatever I have, its broke.

Also I am being genuine here, I want to move forward with this game as I said before I do love parts of it and I want to love the rest.

Good luck!

fatehasfans said:

Play as default Arsenal in the Champions League on regular - your team will/should move at half the speed of the opposition for most of the game. I play every other version of PES on Superstar difficulty and bar AI cheating I can hold my own and win most games, so this is puzzling because it is simply impossible at times to do anything - but I am also playing on manual passing and advanced shooting, or at least I was.

If the things that I mentioned above don't happen to you on the settings above then I must have a difference version of the game - puzzling indeed, mine is the steam version for the PC (obviously). If you lived near Belfast you could come around to my house and I'll point these things out and you can attempt the impossible, trust me I want to witness it because whatever I have, its broke.

Also I am being genuine here, I want to move forward with this game as I said before I do love parts of it and I want to love the rest.

Good luck!

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Played 3 games in champons league. Napoli first, then Real Madrid and Chelsea on regular. Beat Napoli 10-1, Madrid 2-1 and Chelsea 3-0. Image of Napoli below for proof, and other images for proof if you need them.

I selected madrid and chelsea to be in my group if you find that out of the ordinary. Safe to say enough I haven't been affected really. Madrid in fairness were still tricky bastards on regular, but I also got cocky on this skill level after beating napoli so badly and also impatient doing the next two games after it. Chelsea I should have hammered, but I was rushing shots and thought I could walk through them. They also spent alot of time passing it around the back, which ate time. Madrid should have drew with me(rotten bastards).

I felt absolutely nothing different with my players than top player. I could shove players off the ball, them me. Didn't notice my players being slow compared to the opposition, except once with matic catching chamberlain when I was at full sprint which seemed a little quick, but didn't over analyse it as it was the only occasion I noticed something like that. I checked his stats,which are alot slower than chamberlain. Matic was on top form though with a red arrow, and chamberlain on a green arrow. Form affects stats in this game, but does it also affect speed? I don't know but its stupid if it does and I suspect it might. You could argue a player on top form will try harder than another that is not in top form. But should it affect your speed? Not really I think, but maybe marginally as they will not try as hard. Konami could have coded this in.

Rat Monkey said:

Played 3 games in champons league. Napoli first, then Real Madrid and Chelsea on regular. Beat Napoli 10-1, Madrid 2-1 and Chelsea 3-0. Image of Napoli below for proof, and other images for proof if you need them.

I selected madrid and chelsea to be in my group if you find that out of the ordinary. Safe to say enough I haven't been affected really. Madrid in fairness were still tricky bastards on regular, but I also got cocky on this skill level after beating napoli so badly and also impatient doing the next two games after it. Chelsea I should have hammered, but I was rushing shots and thought I could walk through them. They also spent alot of time passing it around the back, which ate time. Madrid should have drew with me(rotten bastards).

I felt absolutely nothing different with my players than top player. I could shove players off the ball, them me. Didn't notice my players being slow compared to the opposition, except once with matic catching chamberlain when I was at full sprint which seemed a little quick, but didn't over analyse it as it was the only occasion I noticed something like that. I checked his stats,which are alot slower than chamberlain. Matic was on top form though with a red arrow, and chamberlain on a green arrow. Form affects stats in this game, but does it also affect speed? I don't know but its stupid if it does and I suspect it might. You could argue a player on top form will try harder than another that is not in top form. But should it affect your speed? Not really I think, but maybe marginally as they will not try as hard. Konami could have coded this in.

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I'll post a video of what happens at my end because this is very puzzling indeed. I barely get a shot off in the Champion's League nvm 10 goals. Once I figure out how to record videos of the game I will make and upload here for you to analyse, it won't be before the end of the weekend though as I'm on the beer.

Can I give my two cents in a relatively concise manner?
I like this game, but I get the feeling there's... something wrong with it. I could say what it was, but I'm not keen to the intricacies of the AI - that's all I know it is, in fact.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm no star player like many of you guys, but in other PES games I could always pull my weight in Regular level (EDIT: just figured this out, I have to dumb the game down to Amateur to have an experience similar to how I used to play). With 2015, I struggle just to keep the ball going (I've NEVER finished a game with 50% possession or over). And the AI loves to disrupt the flow of the game itself, not just my own; it's like they play on 8-1-1 and, when they recover the ball, their main tactic seems to be "hang back and wait for those suckers to come at us so we send it forward to slot it home". Now all they need is FIFA's ball-fetishist keepers and they're all set. I think not even Giovanni Trapattoni could top that.

But still, I bet a 2-player match could be a blast (I play mostly by myself, and I don't wanna try online until I do get better), because the controls respond better than before (PES 2014 was just too slow for me), and that's a plus for me over FIFA 15 (whose new ball control system was so confusing to me, I couldn't even play it properly).

Konami should fire the whole player database creators.
Why did they create fake players where there are already REAL ones?
Why did they have to DIVIDE the player database to different parts?
Why cannot they provide an update for the databases that contains Live Update players for better ML experience?

I have noticed some differences in the gameplay and the fact that regular level seems a little more challenging

Here is the link to the video (for Rat_Monkey) I created highlighting the problems - the video is split over two halves.

first half
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPbiyy6d83c

second half
http://youtu.be/IqTolZvtQSs

fatehasfans said:

Here is the link to the video (for Rat_Monkey) I created highlighting the problems - the video is split over two halves.

first half
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPbiyy6d83c

second half
http://youtu.be/IqTolZvtQSs

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I'm really sorry men but If you're getting dominated by Chelsea(or any other team) using Arsenal on Regular, then there's something wrong with you.

There are some points in your video that I agree on(pathing issues, etc.) but most of the issues you have is your own fault(tackling, passing, shooting.etc). I won't discuss those points one by one as I'm sure Rat Monkey have answers for those.

I'm really sorry men. I think you're a very sincere person, I can feel that. However, most of your issues with the game are your faults.

Nice Ozil goal, btw.