Bought the game at midnight, returning it tomorrow!

[Amateur]

I think everyone is getting too good at pes games.
Im glad im obviously not that good because I still get alot out of the games.
hell i cant take every one on, and win everything everytime too easily on top player?? I started my ML and didnt score for 8 games!!
BAL is awsome im happy to play this all year (worth £30).
I think pro evo still comes into its own when playing with mates agaists together etc.
and also I only get to play now and again, inbetween the girlfriend moaning, working a 60hr week and drinking lol so the time i get on pro evo I find is awsome!

I also do not play it that much, I got a lot to do all the time; but the point is, after 10 years of playing similar games.... it reaches the point were you think, "is it ever going to change? or will they just continue releasing old games with fresh words like "engineered for freedom?"

For me, the problem is not the lack of difficulty... I mean, difficulty is a problem, but it's not because the game is too easy.... it is because the game is not good enough.

For instance, the game could be EASIER to play.... but more SUBSTANTIAL at its core; and the SUBSTANCE would make it more difficult, even though it is EASIER and more ACCESSIBLE to play.

When you see things like, the right analogue dribbling tricks, the L2 + left analogue dribbling tricks, the necessity of holding the R2 button just so that your player traps the ball, etc, etc.

The buttons that I just mentioned, are stupid, and these overly-difficult buttons are just alternatives to cover an old flaw that they have not fixed.

The left analogue stick currently decides HOW you run with the ball, WHEN you run with the ball, and the DISTANCE COVERED with the ball.

Now, what would happen if ONE button, decided HOW you pass the ball, WHEN you pass the ball, and the POWER of the pass?

What would happen if, by simply directing the left analogue stick WITHOUT the assistance of any other button... this alone would be enough to determine the DIRECTION of the pass, the TIMING of the pass, and the POWER of the pass?

Well, this is what happens when you dribble and run with the ball....

If you direct the left analogue stick WITHOUT the assistance of any button: this will be enough to cover spaces of over 50 feet of distance... In other words, you can actually run WITHOUT the assistance of a SPRINT button.

If you could pass the ball WITHOUT the assistance of a passing button: this is what happens with running and dribbling... you can run without the assistance of a running button, you can run past 3 defenders without ever actually utilizing your brain, because running and dribbling is 50% automatic and scripted.

The left analogue stick determines HOW you run with the ball, WHEN you run with the ball, and the DISTANCE COVERED with the ball.

This is a problem with both PES11 and FIFA11. And this massive flaw is covered up with overly-difficult controls to minimize the overall lack of substance, basically, making a dumb game... harder or more difficult than it should be.

And this is a problem, and I do not need to play the game 24/7 to notice such an obvious flaw; after so many years of the same ping pong formula.... you just reach the point were you have outgrown such an insubstantial and superficial video game.

Yes it is fun, for a limited time; but after paying so much money over the years, I feel like I have not received my money's worth.

PES11 is what PES09 should have been; in fact, Konami themselves said that PES11 is what PES08 should have been.... which says it all really.

As for FIFA11.... I cannot bother myself with that game, I just find the whole FIFA series a waste of time, because in my opinion, it lacks depth; and no depth + no substance, is a formula that I do not tolerate... it simply, insults my intelligence, to the point were I feel insulted as opposed to entertained.

On the other hand, like FIFA, PES is a dumb and superficial video game; but unlike FIFA, PES has some level of depth... despite the overall lack of substance.

 

[RN50]

y is this thread still going on? obviously Gun_Runner doesnt like the game, he has returned the game and no matter what people say his opinion of the game will not change.

Some people will like it some people wont end of.

 

[Gun_Runner]

y is this thread still going on? obviously Gun_Runner doesnt like the game, he has returned the game and no matter what people say his opinion of the game will not change.

Some people will like it some people wont end of.

.

 

[Mal0n515]

I agree with that,

For starters, if PES5 had the passing system of PES11, it would be unplayable, it would be an unplayable ping pong game.... where each game would end with 5-7 score lines.

It's easy to say that something does not feels right about PES11 and PES10, but the problem is not as simple a regressing back into the 8-axis era and fitting PES5 animations into the game.

I think that PES10 was the best PES to date, when it came out; and I also think PES11 is the best PES to date.

Fixing the goal keeper, fixing the floaty ball feel, fixing the bugs, smarter AI; will not make PES11 more enjoyable for me... because it would not actually change how the game is played.

So in that sense, I have to say that PES11 is a good video game, and that I do not think it can improve much more if it continues working the same; so in this respect, PES11 is a good game...

But on the other hand, I have to say that it is a very outdated video game where it matters the most; and that it needs wholesale changes where it matters the most... it's not about adding UPDATES to the same old D-PAD CONCEPT... it's not about making it look pretty and making it feel pretty and minimizing the bugs, it's about actually REPLACING the old concept.

For me, it's all down to the physics of dribbling and man-marking. The left analogue stick currently determines HOW you dribble, WHEN you dribble, and also, the DISTANCE COVERED with the ball; three completely different areas attached to ONE button, this is the great restriction that is limiting all the areas of the game.

In PES10, the left analogue stick determined the DIRECTION of passing and also the POWER behind the pass, we had no power bar for passing the ball, and we all experienced how restrictive it was, because it limited the potential of the left analogue stick; with PES11, we can see how a simple "power bar" has revolutionized the passing game, because it relieved the left analogue stick from the burden of determining both the DIRECTION and the POWER, and by relieving the left analogue stick from such a burden, you now have more control over your passing.... because the left analogue stick determines the direction, and a completely different button determines the power.

The same thing can and should happen with dribbling and man-marking. Currently, the left analogue stick determines HOW, WHEN, and the DISTANCE COVERED.

HOW -- should be determined by the left analogue stick, which has the range of movement, and has all that space to implement different type of dribbling and man-marking animations.

WHEN -- should be determined by a button that is NOT the left analogue stick... In other words, it would be impossible to cover spaces of over 30 feet of distance WITHOUT the assistance of a SPRINT button.

DISTANCE COVERED -- Again, if you direct the left analogue stick WITHOUT the assistance of a SPRINT button, the left analogue stick should not have the power of making your player run through space: it should be impossible to cover spaces of over 30 feet of distance, WITHOUT the assistance of a SPRINT button. Therefore, the DISTANCE COVERED should not and cannot be determined by the left analogue stick.

By relieving the left analogue stick from the burden of determining WHEN the dribble is used, as well as the DISTANCE COVERED; you create new space to implement new animations into the game, animations that would otherwise be left out... due to lack of space on the left analogue stick.

PES11 has improved in some areas, but it remains very outdated where it matters the most: you are always dribbling or man-marking, dribbling and man-marking is the heartbeat of the game, it is the link to all the areas of the game, and it is the weakest area of PES11 and FIFA11.

This is the area of the game that needs the most improvement. You can go to PES5 and then go to PES11, and you will notice that the left analogue stick, essentially, functions in the same identical way... it determines HOW you run with the ball, WHEN you run with the ball, and the DISTANCE COVERED with the ball... but with less responsiveness and with more directions to run into.

PES5 was imprecise, PES6 was imprecise, PES10 was imprecise, FIFA10 was imprecise, PES11 is imprecise, FIFA11 is imprecise; ignoring the difference in feel and responsiveness, all the mentioned games share one thing in common, they are all imprecise: the lack of precision is a D-PAD RESTRICTION... not an analogue restriction.

Adding directions to an outdated and flawed concept will never fix the problem, it can only hide the flaw, but updating the same old flaw will never actually fix the flaw.

Again, we have seen how a simple power bar has massively changed how the game is played because it changed how passing works; can you imagine the difference that a new left analogue stick system would produce for dribbling and man-marking? and how this would affect the rest of the game?

Yeah you have a brilliant point, it has always been outdated, since the SNES believe it or not, KONAMI have admitted that they use the same design techniques since that era obviously to a much more advanced approach but at the core it is the same.

I think if my memory serves me right, i could be wrong here the closest I have seen to your description was one of the games on the PS1 where you had 3 different dribbling speeds via different buttons besides the d-pad, i know thats not really comparable to your vision/concept but i think its the closest so far. I don't know why they don't change the physics tbh, they seem to be just trying to regain their title of the cream of footy games using this engine at the moment, but I agree with you when it boils down to it and you really look at what you've got, its very out-dated and a different approach is necessary.

Maybe they are keeping it this way because it is easier for them to determine player attributes/stats easier to distinguish player qualitites? who knows.

 

[Amateur]

Yeah you have a brilliant point, it has always been outdated, since the SNES believe it or not, KONAMI have admitted that they use the same design techniques since that era obviously to a much more advanced approach but at the core it is the same.

I think if my memory serves me right, i could be wrong here the closest I have seen to your description was one of the games on the PS1 where you had 3 different dribbling speeds via different buttons besides the d-pad, i know thats not really comparable to your vision/concept but i think its the closest so far. I don't know why they don't change the physics tbh, they seem to be just trying to regain their title of the cream of footy games using this engine at the moment, but I agree with you when it boils down to it and you really look at what you've got, its very out-dated and a different approach is necessary.

Maybe they are keeping it this way because it is easier for them to determine player attributes/stats easier to distinguish player qualitites? who knows.

Exacto, you are the first person who gets it.... gets why this is such a massive problem.

The player attributes/stats I believe are actually harder to determine with the current outdated system, because you have less animations, and thus, less to work with.

With more different type of animations, Konami would have more to choose from, and the player individuality would diversify, be even more noticeable than it currently is.

I think they are keeping it this way, because it's easier and cheaper to do. Though I hope PES11 is the stepping stone towards something new; wishful thinking I guess.

 

[alp-pacino]

Borrrinnngggg!!!

i just wanna ask somtin if you returned the game and dont think of it that much why have you got over 5 thousand posts and still come onto a pro evo website this thread has attracted alot of attention but its wasting time and the conversation is getting to a bottomless pit the fact is this is an attention seeking thread to start up a boring debate about 2 games you either like and dislike the other or you like both or dislike both simple as...... i like pro..... i like fifa...... in my opinion pes is much more enjoyable.... i will be trading in fifa 11 for call of duty black ops now you try tell me that fifa is better than black ops coz then half the world will tell you otherwise!! loll (pointless comment for pointless thread)

 

[Du 1337]

PES needs practice... Noob

 

[kinglarrson]

1 hour in my opinion was enough to convince me that FIFA is still better, that's what it basically boils down to. I think it's jumping the gun to say PES11 is the best football game of all time, quite frankly there are still far too many flaws in it I think - very simple ones at that, which wouldn't be so hard to fix.

PES 2011 is definitely a step in the right direction for Konami though, I just hope they can take this years game as the foundation for new games & build upon it. Aside from gameplay they have a lot of things on the money! Graphically it's superior to FIFA and the edit mode is far more comprehensive (which I suppose it has to be to make up for lack of licenses...)

Gun, I hear ya!
I meant to say the best makers of any football game ever made, but I'm sure you have been waiting to hear that yes, I can see the flaws - as bright as ever.
Shooting sucks, penalties still suck and to change the dynamics of trickery is a total pain in the ass, not to mention these 20 or so bicycle kicks I'm pulling every match, I am feeling a little let down by Seabass as they continually release a game that we can guarantee there will be immediate issues that we will all go, for fuck sake why can't they get this right, money grabbing pimps the lot of them, and we are the hookers that keep getting bum rapedm
Still playing though, but tried out some old versions - fun, fun, fun
Can't believe you took the rangers jab so well, very admirable

 

[OCKRASS]

Gun, I hear ya!
I meant to say the best makers of any football game ever made, but I'm sure you have been waiting to hear that yes, I can see the flaws - as bright as ever.
Shooting sucks, penalties still suck and to change the dynamics of trickery is a total pain in the ass, not to mention these 20 or so bicycle kicks I'm pulling every match, I am feeling a little let down by Seabass as they continually release a game that we can guarantee there will be immediate issues that we will all go, for fuck sake why can't they get this right, money grabbing pimps the lot of them, and we are the hookers that keep getting bum rapedm
Still playing though, but tried out some old versions - fun, fun, fun
Can't believe you took the rangers jab so well, very admirable

I am in full support of Gun also.

I have been a HUGE PES fan for over a decade. I just loved the game.
I got really good at what I now refer to as "Running and Gunning"

I give ball to either Eto, Messi or CR9 run as fast as i can and SHOOT. and like a freaking rocket missle ...most times I would score.....just loved it. Many hated that and a lot of us tried the next best thing. Fifa.

Here came a game being revamped from the core up. A simple thing such as Juggling in the arena caught my eye. How the hell didn't Konami think of that? I thought. There were no speed demons, no rocket launchers from half line and most of all no lagging online.

The animations in Fifa made many others like myself realize that PES was behind. Fifa continues to grow with just superb realistic animations and a full 360 game.

PES 2011 is a just a small upgrade from 2010. Graphics have been improved but the crouching players, rocket shots, run and gun, bad collision and now the worst passing system ever seen on a PES title has many returning the game in an instant. It does not take you 5min to see that this game is pure shit.

PES passing is like a catapult, pulll back and POOOWW. The ball races out but amazingly slows down right in front of the receiver.

SPOILER ALERT
The defenders in PES 2011 do not tackle! This is separate and apart from the JOG Bug. ...

Look it up

Fifa is the choice of many many gamers this year again for only one obvious reason.....regardless

 

[shaun7]

^How can someone take you seriously? You're clearly lying about pes 11. Animations alone do not make a game better. And in pes 11 you cannot dribble the whole pitch. I don't even think you played the game. You're just guessing. And also, how can you say something about pes' passing? It's clearly miles ahead of the stupid pro passing.
Also, it would be stupid to say that fifa has full 360 movement. That's just not true. Fifa is not full 360. But it has enough animations to hide it.
Both games have something good in them and both can be frustrating this year because of OBVIOUS FLAWS in both games.
Anyway it's just a matter of what you prefer in the end.

 

[danzine]

^how can someone take you seriously? You're clearly lying about pes 11. Animations alone do not make a game better. And in pes 11 you cannot dribble the whole pitch. I don't even think you played the game. You're just guessing. And also, how can you say something about pes' passing? It's clearly miles ahead of the stupid pro passing.
Also, it would be stupid to say that fifa has full 360 movement. That's just not true. Fifa is not full 360. But it has enough animations to hide it.
Both games have something good in them and both can be frustrating this year because of obvious flaws in both games.
Anyway it's just a matter of what you prefer in the end.

u mad ?

 

[Gun_Runner]

i just wanna ask somtin if you returned the game and dont think of it that much why have you got over 5 thousand posts and still come onto a pro evo website this thread has attracted alot of attention but its wasting time and the conversation is getting to a bottomless pit the fact is this is an attention seeking thread to start up a boring debate about 2 games you either like and dislike the other or you like both or dislike both simple as...... i like pro..... i like fifa...... in my opinion pes is much more enjoyable.... i will be trading in fifa 11 for call of duty black ops now you try tell me that fifa is better than black ops coz then half the world will tell you otherwise!! loll (pointless comment for pointless thread)

Have a look at when I joined before you make daft comments please? 2003 I joined (when Pro Evo was still king!) I used to post regularly on this site for a couple of years, I still enjoy the banter of a lot of people on this site which is why I still post.

You'll also surely realize most threads on this site aren't specifically about PES?

And yes...FIFA is better than Black Ops. That is like saying tennis is better than eating an orange, how can you compare?

 

[shaun7]

u mad ?

Mad as in angry or mad as insane?
If it's the latter one then, NO. I just speak the truth and call it what it is.

 

[simononestop]

I like pes!
I like Master League
I Like BAL
I Like football!!

Dont get the point of people still going on about pes being rubbish its clearly not rubbish, we all moan and still play it all year!
Yeah all the old versions were good at the time but if you played them now they wouldnt be as good as you remember them
I think everyones expectations are jut too high
.. its a game play it or dont.

ithink people are just frustrated hell go outside and play football for real nothing comes better than that!

 

[Mal0n515]

I like pes!
I like Master League
I Like BAL
I Like football!!

Dont get the point of people still going on about pes being rubbish its clearly not rubbish, we all moan and still play it all year!
Yeah all the old versions were good at the time but if you played them now they wouldnt be as good as you remember them
I think everyones expectations are jut too high
.. its a game play it or dont.

ithink people are just frustrated hell go outside and play football for real nothing comes better than that!

Youre absolutely right lol it is important to remember its a game and if playing real footy doesnt work for you then youre screwed

God dam this thread has went on for soo long lol. Just played a good 7 or 8 matches doing the italian league, pumped barcelona in the champions league final, I also scored a whopper of a bicycle kick with Ronaldinho with great build up, dunno if theres a thread i can post that on on this site for goals or not but yeh, twas sweet.

Happy gaming.

 

[Amateur]

I like pes!
I like Master League
I Like BAL
I Like football!!

Dont get the point of people still going on about pes being rubbish its clearly not rubbish, we all moan and still play it all year!
Yeah all the old versions were good at the time but if you played them now they wouldnt be as good as you remember them
I think everyones expectations are jut too high
.. its a game play it or dont.

ithink people are just frustrated hell go outside and play football for real nothing comes better than that!

When I play the game, I can enjoy it as much as the most massive fan boy; however, you are missing the point of constructive criticism.... it's not really constructive when you don't say anything objective or relevant.

Playing the game and criticizing the game, are entirely different things. I am not a hater, I just want a better game, because it could and should be better by now.

When Konami themselves, tell their own fans that PES11 is what PES08 should have been.... that says a lot.

It's not that our expectations are too high, the truth is that the game is outdated, and KONAMI admitted this themselves; so why are you telling us our expectations are too high?

That sounds like CENSORSHIP..... CENSORSHIP is always pointless, you should know that. I enjoy PES10 and I will no doubt enjoy PES11, but still, I come here to provide objective information as opposed to subjective information.

And as far as objective information goes, we have a very obvious flaw that should be fixed.... and yet nobody ever mentions the fact.

 

[akajetz]

another fifa vs pes debate?????????

 

[ibz2004]

PES is shite , its an improvement over last year but nothing much, and FIFA is crap too , im sad that we can't even get 1 decent football game at this time with this technology , pathetic.

i bought both games and after 1 week of playing iv decided to sell FIFA! hardly a difference between them except fifa is a little too easy and as someone said earlier too clostrophpbic. Dont really have a sense of fluidity playing it. Once you learn the tricks on PES then it begins to get fun. I chose it cos its slightly harder to master. Fifa did seem fun..but then again i could stick on Actua Soccer II and have fun with that doesnt mean its a better game!

 

[Dundon's]

I wanted to love PES this year but Seabass and Co. prevented it again. Now I'm stuck with another copy of PES which I doubt I'll ever play again. I've made this decision after patching the PES with all the real kits, names, grounds etc and after a week of forcing myself to try and love it like I used to once upon a time. Please don't quote my post and tell me I don't know what I'm talking about or that I haven't given it a fair chance because I so bloody well did.

Moving forward...

I sold out and got Fifa11. Enough was enough as far as I was concerned and for the last 2 instalments people were saying the fifa shooting was fixed and didn't feel as repetitive, another thing I was promised (from a mate who was always a fifa fanboy :>) was that the floating around animations were fixed and that the game played like PES used to. When he told me all this my blood started to boil because I had this chip from way back where I didn't even entertain people who spoke about Fifa in general, we were all there once upon a time, when PES was king and more seen as the underground football game that proper gamers played. When you met someone that said they played PES you smiled and he became your brother.

Anyways to cut a long story short Fifa11 "IMO" is a way more complete game than PES2011 and is by a great distance more satisfying to play, whereas PES is just too frustrating with them silly blaster shots sailing in all the time. So really the big edge Fifa11 has over PES2011 the goalkeepers who unlike PES have character, but more so don't ruin the gaming experience with stupid mistakes and decisions. PES just reminds me of a loved animal in pain and it tears me up to see it suffer like this.

God help my soul.

 

[futsal4lyfe]

I hate to say this, but I am of the same mind. I still haven't purchased either PES or FIFA (on PC) because it has been hard to decide which to buy. I have played both demos (which I assume more or less reflect the final product) quite a bit, and I am leaning towards Fifa. PES passing I really liked, but the animations still feel a little awkward and clunky. PES nails player individuality and I love Master League. But every year PES has problems. Last year was goalkeepers and refs and animations, this year its refs and animations again...
FIFA 11 pc (= fifa 10.5) lacks individuality and the additions of its console counterparts, but it is so fluid and it feels and looks more real. PES graphics are better, though. The inertia dribbling in PES is awesome, but FIFA just seems a more complete package (commentary, referees, animations...). I hope PES 2012 can bring all the positives of 2011 and improve everything else. I guess I might just buy fifa as a placeholder until then...