bestpesever
Registered User
here we go again,pes next year gonna be like fifa.
and fifa is same shit every year
and fifa is same shit every year
Can you convince me not to return this game?
- Thread starter Effington
- Start date
Nice! I am glad you stick with it and found it enjoyable.
Halfrax2
Registered User
Good to hear!
(Just remembered something else I should have mentioned before: feinting and jinking with the right analogue stick is another great way to win fouls - and indeed to go past defenders. If you don't do much of that, you should, at least with the right players...)
(Just remembered something else I should have mentioned before: feinting and jinking with the right analogue stick is another great way to win fouls - and indeed to go past defenders. If you don't do much of that, you should, at least with the right players...)
Ali
It is happening again
Feinting is very good, and under used online. Most people just get the ball with a top player and run with it, but you can tell where they're going. Plus I think it looks good when you sell the defender a dummy. You can even jink with the left analogue. Speaking of things that look good - those little chips over the keeper, when you shoot then press R1.
akajetz
Registered User
WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU ON ABOUT?? how the fuck is someone cheating by anticipating a pass? i dont get what your on about? its a part of football at the end of the day, and if you dont have a decent football brain to understand that then its your fault for playing a game that your not good at. instead of picking an 'OBVIOUS pass' use your football brain (if you have one that is), to pass to a not so obvious player. you have to anticipate what your opponent is anticipating (if you understand that) to stay ahead of the opposition, if you have any competitive football experience, you wouldnt of said what you said and many other of your VERY PREDICTABLE AND REPETATIVE STATEMENTS.
FUCK OFF TO FIFA YOU MORON!
Amateur
Registered User
It is a flaw, you stupid fuck, when YOU do not have the option of ALSO moving your player in ANTICIPATION of your opponent moving to the OBVIOUS camera angle which clearly shows what your intention will be.
Here's an idea for your magnificent footballing brain: If my opponent can move one player around, I should also have the ability of moving one player around.
Here's another idea for your stupid shit footballing brain: even if the camera angle makes everything obvious, at least I should have the option and ability of moving one player backwards, forwards, or sideways, as it happens in real life football.... because we all know that in real life football, footballers don't just stand there like fucking lifeless and clueless dots, waiting for the ball to be snapped away by cheaters who want to score cheap goals.
And here's another idea for you: have you thought about the possibility that you might be incredibly stupid? and that your stupidity reflects in your dumb and redundant writing?
If you had any competitive experience you would know why it is a blatant FLAW; if you had any competitive experience you would also know why PES11 and FIFA11 are hugely outdated.
FUCK OFF TO HELL, you dumb fuck.
James_dean
Registered User
I agree with Amateur on this. I have a few questions though.
What if the AI didn´t cheat? I play many video games but when I think of those I have played on a top level the computer always cheats on me to keep up. Is there a game somewhere out there that is so well developed that it outsmarts us?
My answer is (at the moment) no. Of course I´v been beaten be the AI in a low level in some games but that´s when I´m distracted or new to the game.
Would love to hear Amateur views on this.
What if the AI didn´t cheat? I play many video games but when I think of those I have played on a top level the computer always cheats on me to keep up. Is there a game somewhere out there that is so well developed that it outsmarts us?
My answer is (at the moment) no. Of course I´v been beaten be the AI in a low level in some games but that´s when I´m distracted or new to the game.
Would love to hear Amateur views on this.
Stormrider
Registered User
Actually that shit happens a lot more often then you think, especially when watching teams with poor defense. Happened as recently as last week, Real Madrid vs Auxerre, Benzema's 3rd goal. Sounds a lot like what you described. You see shit like that all the time in the EPL as well. Booting the ball upfield with the goalie every now and then should solve your problem
Amateur
Registered User
I agree with your point, and in my opinion, I don't think a good video game will ever outsmart an experienced human being; though at the same time, I think a computer can offer a decent challenge without the necessity of cheating you.
The bottom line for me, regarding video games, that the future is not about a computer outsmarting a human being, since I don't think it's possible at all; I think the future is about the computer providing the correct tools for the user, so that when human beings play against one another, the game revolves around outsmarting your opponent.
For instance, comparing PES with CHESS; when you play CHESS you have to go through the procedure of build up play, you cannot skip the process of build up play, the player who wins wins because he outsmarted you.
On the other hand, when you play PES, there is no build up play and no structure and no substance to how the game plays, the player who wins the game is the player who exploited the cheap flaws more efficiently.
The problem is, that playing a game that revolves around substantial elements is a lot more entertaining and satisfactory than playing a game that revolves around exploiting cheap flaws; the cheap flaws get old real fast, whereas the substantial games are timeless since they provide a different challenge every time.
For instance, Super Smash Brothers, Street Fighters, Chess games: in the mentioned video games, the computer cannot cheat you because there are no cheap flaws that the COM can exploit in order to cheat you; and yes, experienced players easily outplay the computer, but the fact remains, that there are no cheap flaws to exploit.
In many instances, this makes the game entertaining despite the lack of difficulty; and when played against human opponents, it can prove very challenging, providing hours of entertainment.
My point is, regarding PES, that when you play against another human being, we exploit all the obvious and cheap flaws; and I don't blame us, because the flaws are so easy to exploit, that it is actually difficult not to exploit them unintentionally.
I want to experience a video game that allows you to play something similar to football, but you cannot play anything remotely close to football if the movements and reactions without the ball are LITERALLY determined by the movements of an analogue stick.
The SCRIPT of the game, that is, the movement without the ball, should not be LITERALLY determined by the movements of an analogue stick; because if it is literally determined by the movements of the left analogue stick, this means that you never have any control over the SCRIPT that pre-determines or affects your reactions.
If we cannot determine and affect the SCRIPT, this means that the game is scripted and will revolve around the idea of exploiting cheap flaws.
So the bottom line for me, like I said at the beginning of this post, is that I am not very interested in the challenge that the computer can provide, since making the game more challenging on the basis of cheating you, does not guarantee you an entertaining experience.
I am interested in the challenge that user vs user play can offer, if the user has the same level of control as the computer; as is the case with CHESS or Super Smash Brothers, where the user has the same level of control as the computer.
Actually that shit happens a lot more often then you think, especially when watching teams with poor defense. Happened as recently as last week, Real Madrid vs Auxerre, Benzema's 3rd goal. Sounds a lot like what you described. You see shit like that all the time in the EPL as well. Booting the ball upfield with the goalie every now and then should solve your problem
Considering the amount of teams and leagues throughout the world, it really doesn't happens that much, statistically, it is a rare occurrence if you consider the amount of games which are played on a single day.
Having said that, yes, it does happen every now and then in real life football and should be included into a video game, but you should know how to implement it into a video game.
Mistakes should happen every now and then, but mistakes should not be determined by the COM, the mistakes should be the aftermath of a USER-determined mistake.
This is one of the many areas where PES has failed to progress; I don't feel like booting the ball upfield, I want to feel; I have no problem with mistakes being included into the game, I just want them to be my mistakes, instead of a cheap flaw which is exploited by cheaters.
In any case, I have done what you suggested, and it does helps, but the fact remains that it is a non-fundamental flaw which could be easily fixed with a bit of tweaking.
Stormrider
Registered User
Street Fighter IV has plenty of exploits. I mainly use Vega and I beat most opponents from just being plain cheap. I do this one attack that makes it impossible for them to block. Sagat is another cheap, overpowered character. They have nerfed both characters in Super Street Fighter IV but point remains that Pes is not the only game out there with plenty of exploits.
Super Smash Brothers also had a fair share of it's own. I remember around 3 characters, forgot which ones because I haven't played for so long, were incredibly cheap and overpowered.
Both are great games that provide plenty of hours of fun, but no doubt they're not perfect. I think you can't have fun because you refuse to accept that Pes is just a video game like these other 2 games. It's no doubt one of the best installments in the series. As long as you just suspend belief every now and then you should have fun. I mean there's nothing realistic about throwing fireballs in a game that actually does represent a real sport, or a flying marshmallow animal but that doesn't detract from your enjoyment one bit.
The point was it does happen when you said it doesn't. The mistake wasn't determined by the com, it was determined by you for failing to notice a nearby attacker and going through with a ground pass anyways instead of using the better option of punting it upfield. The tip I gave you wasn't no secret or anything, it's just one of the most basic things to do and someone who claims to have your amount of football knowledge really should've figured that out on their own, because that's how real football is played. The GK in reality doesn't make ground passes to their CBs 100% of the time. The Pes players who only do this type of pass, that means you too, are the very 1 dimensional ones who never explores other areas of gameplay or never attempts to play even a hint of realistic football, always choosing the easier more obvious options, which is why they find the game unrealistic or easy.
Claiming that Pes 2011 looks nothing like real football would be like saying SFIV looks nothing like martial arts, which is a really unfair statement as it does do a decent job and does blow most of the PS2 titles out of the water which everyone claimed did an incredible job of representing the sport.
bestpesever
Registered User
football is not about shielding a ball.but they can add that on r2 and right stick moving around a ball..and with left stick taping a ball like r1-dash dribble.(to be more physically gameplay)
i remember we talk about that before.and then i watch.ajax-r madrid.there was no one shielding in game.all in moves(ball control)passing etc
i remember we talk about that before.and then i watch.ajax-r madrid.there was no one shielding in game.all in moves(ball control)passing etc
Amateur
Registered User
I never said it doesn't happens, that would have been ridiculous since we all know human beings make mistakes; my point is, it is a cheap flaw which can be fixed with a cheap fix.
PES11 is better than the PS2 versions in certain respects, but it is also worst in other respects; my opinion is, it works and functions the same way PES5 plays and functions, with more directions and some current gen touches here and there, but honestly, it is the same old game as far as I'm concerned.
And as far as I'm concerned, I simply don't enjoy the same old formula as much as I did two years ago, I already explained my reasons.
I don't feel the game requires real levels of skills, I feel the game lacks sensitive skills that demand precision and reflexes and thus produce organic results; I feel that the game is utterly simplistic and superficial, systematic in a bad way, predictable and repetitive in a bad way: when I win I do not genuinely enjoy the experience, and when I loose I also don't genuinely enjoy the experience.
Super Smash Brothers is miles and miles ahead of PES in terms of balance and control and consistency. I don't know why you bring that up, comparing Smash with PES is simply a bad argument if your argument revolves around defending an outdated video game like PES.
Honestly, I can't even bother myself to argue with you in detail, your argument or response is redundant because you are saying things that are not true, most of your response is you saying things that are based on impression, theory, speculation: I never said mistakes did not happened in real life, I never said Super Smash Brothers is perfect, and yes, I already knew what you suggested to me way before you made the very obvious suggestion; and no, I am not a one-dimensional player: has it not occurred to you that, like a lot of skillful gamers, I simply do not think PES11 is a good video game?
My argument was very simple, no, Super Smash is not perfect, no video game is perfect as far as my experience goes, but you do have the same amount of control as the computer; in PES, you don't have the same control as the computer, the computer can bend the script, you cannot manipulate the script: fairly simple point.
I don't actually understand why you are lecturing me about obvious things, it's uncalled for, I am not lecturing you nor anyone about what you should like nor about how you should feel about a video game, nor am I under the assumption that the people who think that PES11 is unrealistic are one-dimensional players who don't know how to play the game.
It's a matter of opinion; but respect the facts for what they are: I mentioned a fact, which is the fact that what I mentioned in that other post is a cheap flaw; I didn't asked nor am I interested in knowing how I can play around it, I know how to play around it, but I am not talking about my skills nor about mere speculation, I am talking about a very simple and concrete fact.
Another fact: the way the left analogue stick functions, you can only move from one space into another space, it is impossible to move inside one space.
What can you do without the assistance of the left analogue stick? What are you thinking when you don't have the ball at your feet? What can you do without the ball? How do you win the ball back?
Oh that's right, if you direct the left analogue stick in circles, CR7 will run around in circles; you call that football?
But I guess you will tell me that I don't know how to play the game, or that my expectations are unrealistic, or some other subjective story; we will have to agree to disagree on that.
Yeah but you have to know how this affects all the areas of the game, not just shielding, all the areas of the game: passing, dribbling, shielding, shooting, movement without the ball, tackling, etc.
R2 plus right stick is not a solution that will fix the fundamental flaw, it is merely an alternative which will disguise or minimize the flaw.
Football is not about CR7 running in accordance to what a human being can see from a wide view perspective; football is about build up play and moving the ball around in order to create space; it is very unrealistic when the players on the pitch do not react in accordance to the movements and position of the ball, it is very unrealistic when the players on the pitch react to the movements of an analogue stick.
What are you thinking when you don't have the ball at your feet? What can you do without the ball? How do you win the ball back?
Oh that's right, if you direct the left analogue stick in circles, CR7 will run around in circles; you call that football?
It doesn't only affects shielding, it affects the entire game, it may not annoy you as much as it bothers me, since you are not aware of how much it affects the game.
Which is better for you, you paid for the game and you are entertained by the game, which is a pretty sweat deal.
Stormrider
Registered User
I highly doubt you're as skillful as you claim you are if you've only just discovered that the GK is able to clear the ball upfield. I reckon if Konami were to ever create a game that would change the left analogue stick functionality to your strict compliance, you'd still find plenty of things to complain about.
winston0024
Registered User
i personally dont think you can compare the 2 games fifa and pes anymore, i think we can all agree in saying that pes/konami have failed to make a realistic football simulator since pes6, i also think this is why pes go for more of a arcade football game these days and let you edit it "customise" anyway you want, if its "realism" your looking for get fifa i spose pes is more "fun" 2 sides of the same coin i say sod it just get both lol
compairing the 2 would be like compairing grandturismo and burnout both 2 driving games both very different
compairing the 2 would be like compairing grandturismo and burnout both 2 driving games both very different
Ali
It is happening again
I don't think PES 6 was realistic, I think the current PES is more realistic than that game. I do NOT think Fifa is realistic at all. It's too fast.
Anyway, I assume the OP has made his decision, whether to keep PES or not.
Are you a Bolton fan? If so, there is a Bolton thread in the Football section of the forum, I could do with a bit of support