Is it just me? Physical Contact....

[tross840]

The transfer fees seem to be based on the players' rating relative to their teammates.

I'm guessing Barca has so many good attakers the game engine feels that letting go of Messi isn't that bad.

But for example. Moussa Dembele at Celtic (changed his rating from 69 to a more realistic 77) costs 32 million right off the bat because Celtic don't want to sell.

I've seen young players at good teams go for insane prices like 50+

Like I mentioned Verratti was 132mil when I tried to buy him with Madrid because PSG didn't want to sell.

I use Euros btw.

 

[valencia5]

The transfer fees seem to be based on the players' rating relative to their teammates.

I'm guessing Barca has so many good attakers the game engine feels that letting go of Messi isn't that bad.

But for example. Moussa Dembele at Celtic (changed his rating from 69 to a more realistic 77) costs 32 million right off the bat because Celtic don't want to sell.

I've seen young players at good teams go for insane prices like 50+

Like I mentioned Verratti was 132mil when I tried to buy him with Madrid because PSG didn't want to sell.

I use Euros btw.

That's pretty good insight it makes sense.

 

[tokwan]

Where is this ‘just hold X to win ball 97% of the time’ coming from? When I started playing ML on Superstar difficulty level, that’s what I did and I was leaking goals as the COM attackers would pass my defenders with ease to be one-on-one with my keeper and scored 97% of the time instead!

Then I accidentally found that I could sprint to catch up with the COM attacker by NOT holding X but instead just holding R1 (and in some occasions with the help of R2 too), to take the ball away from the opposition. As you run closer to the ball, you will eventually outrun the COM player with the ball and take the ball with you.

Did the last update make it easier to get the ball from opposition now i.e. by just holding the X button?

 

[DunkLFC]

I think you misread my friend lol. I said that the values should be increased by 2x - 3x as we can see is the case in a large majority of the transfer market in game.....

I try my best not to state false facts, not passing it off as fact saying that all these players did in deed sell for double...but you were talking about Bale for example, almost triple his game value, Suarez a bit under double, and neymar around double...

I mean Anthony Martial went for a initional transfer fee of 44 Million USD which could rise to 70 million USD in 2015, depending on how he performs..

If that isn't enough evidence as to how the market in game is, extremely skewed...and not reflective of 2016-2017....as the game is called Pes 2017 not pes 2012.

If Pogba went for 100+ and higuain 90.... I can only imagine what Aguerro would go for, Lewandowski NOW would be right around there tooo....not just the superstars but the up and coming guys...like Rashford, or your example Sterling for example....I mean I saw Rashford for like 8 mil or something in game...I saw some guy buy the 18 year old Renato Sanches for super cheap or something...but Bayern paid 35+ for him....

I understand it's probably hard to implement the AI stuff and physics/collision, that I was complaining about....

But the transfer market makes absolutely no sense...That seems like almost a no brainer and not a difficult thing to implement at all...I simply don't understand for what reason they made it the way it is....

For players like Messi, Neymar, it should be damn near impossible to get them....like under 20% from first contact...and steep prices...but 56 and 40 mil respectively not cool... with good RNG luck you could theoretically buy Neymar for around 30 and Messi for 42-45ish best case scenario....insane.

I think it may be because they feel people will want to sign players like this, for the people less interested in Simulation...but then again they can transfer in edit mode if they wanted them...

The Tag Line is "Control Reality" so I'd wish they would make it as realistic as possible, especially since ML is kind of the mode they use as a selling point....

They have that whole still developing/peak level/in decline thing...I don't know why it has no bearing on market prices...seems like another easy thing to implement.

In my dreams I would wish that they could have "Buyout Clauses" where you could bypass club involvement...for a steep price...but just a far out wish there....

Again hopefully it's not coming off rude, as it's so hard to express tone here, just a discussion...

I was quoting you, so there was no misunderstanding.

Ah, now what you are saying works, as you are only suggesting that the younger players in the first half of their careers will have their transfer fees drastically rise.

I think we both agree that the reason Konami allow us to buy the likes of Messi is for the the fun factor of owning those players. The work around isn't something the average game player is going to want to do and also breaks reality.

Personally, I'd like it to be harder to get those players as well. One thing though, the budget we get isn't as large as some of these teams get, so there is a bit of balance there.

 

[DunkLFC]

Where is this ‘just hold X to win ball 97% of the time’ coming from? When I started playing ML on Superstar difficulty level, that’s what I did and I was leaking goals as the COM attackers would pass my defenders with ease to be one-on-one with my keeper and scored 97% of the time instead!

Then I accidentally found that I could sprint to catch up with the COM attacker by NOT holding X but instead just holding R1 (and in some occasions with the help of R2 too), to take the ball away from the opposition. As you run closer to the ball, you will eventually outrun the COM player with the ball and take the ball with you.

Did the last update make it easier to get the ball from opposition now i.e. by just holding the X button?

Hi, what players are you playing with in ML? The default ones with Castledine and Arqas etc? If so, then yes, the defence is dire and I agree that you don't just win the ball by holding X or []. Getting the best quality defenders you can is a must.

You gotta love super cancel. R1&R2 together is one of the former in-game secrets that is finally becoming more widely known across the player base. The game rewards you for taking full control of the player by allowing you to run at full speed, as well as removing the mini force field that certain players have around them when they are on the ball. The trade-off being that you can't rely on the game to guide you on rails into the tackle.

The first thing I did when I got the game was to amend the Liverpool players stats, as they always overrate Lucas and underrate several others. They also got very lazy with the Liverpool squad this year, rating way too many of them at the same level. eg :-
Lucas : 80
Lallana : 80
Mane : 81
Henderson : 80
Wijnaldum : 81
Lovren : 80
Milner : 81
Karius : 80
Mignolet : 80

The reason I bring this up is that once I had tweaked Lucas, he was bumbling into players giving freekicks away on the edge of the box if I simply held X down. This made him feel like a way more accurate representation of the real Lucas. :laugh:

There is no doubt that once you have upped your defenders to higher ratings in the defensive side of their game, that they do win the ball a high percentage of the time ... except if you are trying to stop an inform, good dribbling attacking player. Then you have to adapt your game to cover all runners and be ready to block shots.

 

[tokwan]

Hi, what players are you playing with in ML? The default ones with Castledine and Arqas etc? If so, then yes, the defence is dire and I agree that you don't just win the ball by holding X or []. Getting the best quality defenders you can is a must.

You gotta love super cancel. R1&R2 together is one of the former in-game secrets that is finally becoming more widely known across the player base. The game rewards you for taking full control of the player by allowing you to run at full speed, as well as removing the mini force field that certain players have around them when they are on the ball. The trade-off being that you can't rely on the game to guide you on rails into the tackle.

The first thing I did when I got the game was to amend the Liverpool players stats, as they always overrate Lucas and underrate several others. They also got very lazy with the Liverpool squad this year, rating way too many of them at the same level. eg :-
Lucas : 80
Lallana : 80
Mane : 81
Henderson : 80
Wijnaldum : 81
Lovren : 80
Milner : 81
Karius : 80
Mignolet : 80

The reason I bring this up is that once I had tweaked Lucas, he was bumbling into players giving freekicks away on the edge of the box if I simply held X down. This made him feel like a way more accurate representation of the real Lucas. :laugh:

There is no doubt that once you have upped your defenders to higher ratings in the defensive side of their game, that they do win the ball a high percentage of the time ... except if you are trying to stop an inform, good dribbling attacking player. Then you have to adapt your game to cover all runners and be ready to block shots.

Ah..that's why. Yes, I started the ML with Arqas and his friends. Arqas is my captain now with Workhorse team role. With financial restrictions imposed (wage budget) it's hard to get good player for all positions. My main CB OVR is only 80 with his partner in the 77. My best players are 86 AMF and 86 CF. Just holding X is a no no for me when defending and especially no X + R1. Either time the press of X properly or supercancel sprinting to 'steal' the ball away from the opponent.

 

[valencia5]

I was quoting you, so there was no misunderstanding.

Ah, now what you are saying works, as you are only suggesting that the younger players in the first half of their careers will have their transfer fees drastically rise.

I think we both agree that the reason Konami allow us to buy the likes of Messi is for the the fun factor of owning those players. The work around isn't something the average game player is going to want to do and also breaks reality.

Personally, I'd like it to be harder to get those players as well. One thing though, the budget we get isn't as large as some of these teams get, so there is a bit of balance there.

I see it now bro, total typo, all = alot, which is why I didn't remember typing it.

Not just younger, but all players in today's market...I'd say a vast majority of the transactions in the game are not even close to what would happen...which is, like I said earlier, super confused as to what logic they were using....other than the "fun factor"

I like the way they did the income/expense breakdowns...maybe in the future they'll go more in depth...if these players weren't so cheap...they could give us those bigger budgets, and it would be more on point.

 

[valencia5]

Ah..that's why. Yes, I started the ML with Arqas and his friends. Arqas is my captain now with Workhorse team role. With financial restrictions imposed (wage budget) it's hard to get good player for all positions. My main CB OVR is only 80 with his partner in the 77. My best players are 86 AMF and 86 CF. Just holding X is a no no for me when defending and especially no X + R1. Either time the press of X properly or supercancel sprinting to 'steal' the ball away from the opponent.

Even before all that. To be honest if I hold down the X, or even tap it twice....my winger or AMF/CMF should win the ball before it even gets to the back line, and in that case the back line will most certainly stop them...of course there are the few chances they get where they score...but it's like a gauntlet for them for sure and actually quite rare.

You sure it might not be your tactics? Please don't take offense...not questioning your skills or anything...

Just from my experience with even 30 team spirit was able to do this with ease....I guess I did buy Laporte and Sandro first but....they weren't even real reason....as I said the ball would be won usually in the middle part of the field.

 

[DunkLFC]

My main CB OVR is only 80 with his partner in the 77. My best players are 86 AMF and 86 CF.

Your defenders are pretty much exactly the same OVR as mine. I've specifically chosen them based on their core Ball Winning and Defensive Prowess though, as well as their age. I have a selection of defenders who are all youngsters and most with good team roles. So if you have wingbacks like Moreno at Liverpool, then that will always be a problem defensively regardless of the OVR rating.

 

[valencia5]

Back to the original topic. Since the update, I've noticed a big difference in the physical contact. It is definitely not as lopsided and blatant. A smaller skinny weakling, can still win against a Zlatan Ibrahimovic, but the attackers are not getting thrown and knocked down as much...the defender still recovers 10x faster from the contact than the attacker, regardless of what the circumstance/physics/size/speed.....but truly not as rampant...

 

[DunkLFC]

Back to the original topic. Since the update, I've noticed a big difference in the physical contact. It is definitely not as lopsided and blatant. A smaller skinny weakling, can still win against a Zlatan Ibrahimovic, but the attackers are not getting thrown and knocked down as much...the defender still recovers 10x faster from the contact than the attacker, regardless of what the circumstance/physics/size/speed.....but truly not as rampant...

I finally had an evening of being able to get a few matches in last night. First time in about a week. As always with leaving PES for a while, scoring was harder at first, until I got back into the swing of things.

For me, the AI defenders are still capable of stopping my forwards from getting a shot away if I dribble into the box with the aim of getting to a fairly straight on angle for a shot. There were a couple of times I work a lovely short passing tiki taka move, only to find that the last pass in the chain is to a player who has wondered offside. So basically, the AI looked like it had finally allowed me space centrally in the box, but in reality it has simply stepped up its line to put me offside. If the ball did fall to my forwards in a crowded box, you can press square to shoot, but I find that they rarely actually ever complete the shooting action before they are tackled.

But if I get the ball wide, I can get past pretty much any fullback in the Premiership now with a fairly high success rate. In about 8 matches, I had one instance of an unrealistic drag back. They are good enough to work lots of crosses, but I don't have a great headerer of the ball. Morata is my only decent striker and he does head a few in and that route is consequently my main source of goals. Crossing low is cut out way more often.

As my players get better I'm finding each of these activities steadily more easy.

 

[Kazuki_Ito]

I've started using manual ground passes or triangle through balls in place of traditional crosses using circle or tapping circle. I was getting fed up of the CPU's supernatural ability to predict where my crosses would go and doing this has seemed to help a bit.

It means you can play into the corridor of uncertainty a bit more easily and it can be funny sometimes when the defence doesn't know how to deal with it. You get a lot of those sliced clearances by the defence that go out for throw ins. You know you had their defence under pressure when they start making those sorts of clearances.

 

[DunkLFC]

Yeah, I like to vary all that up as well. Do you hold R2 when doing normal 'circle' crosses? That helps as well, as it stops the cross being quite so flat and therefore easy to intercept.

 

[Kazuki_Ito]

I've tried this a bit since I read your suggestion and it does help get the crosses 'into the mixer' but I'm not scoring many more goals from these sorts of crosses. I think these type of crosses are easier for a tall CF (Kanu in my case) to win and winning knockdowns can sometimes be effective.

I find low balls across the face of the goal to be most effective. I have Ousmane Dembele top of the assist charts and most of those have been carbon copy low passes across the face of goal to a striker at the back post.

 

[DunkLFC]

I find low balls across the face of the goal to be most effective. I have Ousmane Dembele top of the assist charts and most of those have been carbon copy low passes across the face of goal to a striker at the back post.

Low passes from my wingers don't work at all for me. I think this shows that the game really does take on board the stats of the players very well, when determining the success of the different possible actions. I clearly need to train the low passing of my wingers.

 

[Kazuki_Ito]

I'm just thinking now... when I talk about crosses I guess what I really mean are balls roughly from where the the dead ball line and the 8 yard box intersect - not crosses from near the corner flag. Low crosses from that distance probably wouldn't work too well for me.

 

[DunkLFC]

I'm just thinking now... when I talk about crosses I guess what I really mean are balls roughly from where the the dead ball line and the 8 yard box intersect - not crosses from near the corner flag. Low crosses from that distance probably wouldn't work too well for me.

Ah, I might try that. What I've been doing when I get to that point on the pitch (which Sterling is good at getting me to) is to 'pass' it rather than 'cross' it. I'll try the low cross a few times and see how I get on.

 

[oggmeista]

seems you are right, that's why this year it is easier to defend, but difficult to attack.

and even worse, computer have a much better physical, if the level is higher. that's why with the same action, computer will not get foul, but players will.

sorry that English is not my first language, hope you understand what i mean

sorry i disagree you just got to be better more determined and smarter in how you try and get past him, and this doesn't make the game worse, rather more realistic

 

[oggmeista]

This is something that's really been annoying me though, so your feedback would be nice...

In all the time I have been playing the new game, so far I have never seen a CB score with a header? from a corner that is... and take note, I have the "attacking players" selected in the strategy options......If that is the case it needs to be fixed....because it spoils the authenticity of the game, which in a simulation is critical...

 

[Kazuki_Ito]

Yea I've played 4 seasons in master league now and have hardly scored any headers direct from corners with any of my players, let alone the CB's. I have some tall players with good heading stats and a good ck taker too but that doesn't seem to make too much difference.

I've also noticed I almost never concede directly from corners either. I think holding triangle to get your keeper to come and catch the cross is a bit too effective. He seems to manage it on like 80% of the time I do it (which is every time ) and the remaining times he'll punch it to the edge of the box and the opposition will shoot wide or I'll close them down and win the ball.

Because of this I usually go short from corners and work it to the edge of the box.