Making adjustments to get the AI to attack more

[blazer89]

Adjusting team styles helped a bit with the spacing, as figured out in this thread:

http://www.pesgaming.com/showthread.php?t=75477

So I thought I'd start another thread to see if there is a way to get the AI to attack more, and I think I may have found a way... Even if it may only help just a little.

The two things to change are:

1. Change each team's strategy.

Go to "Tactics" then "Strategy" and here you'll find the option to add up to four strategies for each team. My idea here is to make sure each team has an attacking strategy at their disposal. This is done by deleting "Pressure" and "Total Defense" if they are there, and also adding "All Out Attack" if it is not there. EDIT: Also add "Counter Attack" to every team if it's not there already.

Obviously it's up to the computer to implement these strategies, which is why I say it may only help just a little, but still I think it's worth a shot. I say remove "Pressure" because the AI already presses enough as is, and I think it will help free up midfield play a bit.

2. Make sure each team has a defender join the attack on set plays.

Go to "Set Play Settings" and then "Players to join the attack" and choose the player with the highest number.

This will not only bring a defender into the attack on set plays, but also help the opposing team get out on the attack themselves when they retain possession... Because that one defender will be out of position.

Conclusion

:unsure:

Not entirely sure if these changes will help much. I tested a few halves with The Netherlands vs. England, and it seemed to make a slight difference. The one thing that really stood out was the defender joining the attack on set pieces... In fact, not sure why that isn't the default setting in the first place...

:erm:

Anyhoo, I think it may take a larger sampling of games to see if this really does make a difference. If anyone is willing to contribute time to this effort, please do.

 

[blazer89]

Okay so this is working out so so... It's tough to tell because it doesn't show what strategy the computer controlled team is using. I have the user set to automatic, and it really doesn't even seem to use strategies all that often. Things I've found so far:

1. Eliminating "Pressure" as a strategy seems to free up midfield play just a touch. Guys won't swarm all over you. Well, they still swarm, just not as much.

2. Adding a defender to join the attack on set pieces really makes things a lot more realistic, as you'll see defenders more involved on offense. And again, I'm not sure why this isn't the default setting. :erm:

3. There seem to be more counter attack opportunities, and yet the computer is somewhat unwilling to push the ball ahead. So duh, the answer is to make sure every team has "Counter Attack" as a strategy available to them. I'll edit that in to the first post in bold red.

 

[blazer89]

Okay now I'm seeing some good things...

(edited so as not to mislead people)

 

[blazer89]

I've updated my edit file for North American PS3s for people who want to try this out:

http://www.pesgaming.com/showthread.php?t=76642

 

[blazer89]

(edited so as not to mislead people)

 

[blazer89]

Okay I spoke a little too soon... These changes seem to have less effect that I first thought.

I started a master league in the dutch league, and a lot of the same stuff is happening: no real challenging offensive attack from the computer. I had one good game, but then one where I held the computer to no shots.

I was initially testing it out with top clubs, and that seems to make a difference...

(edited so as not to mislead people)

 

[blazer89]

Playing in the Eridivisie with these changes in fact does very little.

The bottom line is that weak teams are so incredibly weak... All they do is pass it around between the side and center backs, along with whatever midfielder is ahead of them... And rarely do they pose any sort of threat...

:no:

I thought I had found a way...

:erm:

 

[blazer89]

Final conclusion on this... Don't know if anyone is even following along at this point, or if I am just a lone madman...

These changes help only for the Top Clubs... The weaker the team the more back passing you will see...

I just played a game as Real Madrid vs. Inter and Inter came out smoking... Scoring two quick goals with almost none of the pinball passing between the SB, CB, and midfield for minutes on end.

However, I played a game between two teams in the French League and the pinball passing... With really no attempt to advance the ball whatsoever... Was back, much to my dismay.

The weaker teams in PES 2010 always felt a little too weak... And maybe they did that to ensure the top club's success, I don't know...

I think maybe the individual ratings for players on weak teams need a little boost... In order to get them to attack more... Who knows...

Whatever the case, this game (along with the changes mentioned in this thread) seems best to be played only in modes where you don't have to grind it out against the weaker teams, as they rinky dink the ball around like a bunch of school girls... School girls particularly adept at passing and retaining possession I might add... :huh:

So with that... Flibbity floo.

 

[davking]

thanks for the info m8!!
yeah it pisses me off regards the attacking and ping pong passing. plus the lmf and rmf not making runs up the wing when there is plenty of space but always seeming to come short and inside for the ball.to be honest have been playing we10 and pes6 on mi old ps2 and its still good.

 

[JohnnieDarko]

Final conclusion on this... Don't know if anyone is even following along at this point, or if I am just a lone madman...

..I think maybe the individual ratings for players on weak teams need a little boost... In order to get them to attack more... Who knows...

First of all, I'm reading, as these mods make the game so much better. I do not understand why the forum in general seems to not care. So thanks for taking the time to try this out.

2nd, here's a theory:
Maybe you should increase aggression in the weaker teams CB and SB, to get them attack more. Aggression of course makes them attack more, and I don't think the aggression has any effect on their defensive capabilities. Because their willingness to attack, but low dribbling stats, they will pass sooner forwards.

 

[blazer89]

...Maybe you should increase aggression in the weaker teams CB and SB...

The only reason I hesitate to increase individual player stats is because I mainly play ML and new players would still have low aggression.

It would also take a long time...

And besides... The developers should be doing this, not me... :realmad:

I'm actually pretty content with things as they are... That is... With these fixes. Though like I say, it would be nice to have Konami get their game back on track so that it played at a high level right out of the box.

 

[Sabatasso]

I understand completely why you don't want to adjust player abilities to achieve a (more?) playable PES2010, but I will share with you how I achieved a very enjoyable PES2010 regardless, so you can test it at least before you decide what to do.

(all) Defense -10
(CD) Jumping -10
(all) Dribble speed +5 for all, max 90 for everyone
(all) shot technique +15,20,25 or 30 (depending on how efficient you want strikers to be)
(all) long pass speed +10
(all) Swerve +15 (max 90, the ones above is left untouched)
(all) Shot Power +5 (no one under 75)

If you are on console, try doing it with 2 fairly even teams and give it a go for a few matches, including AI vs AI.
I combine this with the strategy stuff we figured out in the other thread. Few fouls and penalties is not something we can do about anyway, so aside from that I think PES2010 with my edits are as good as can be now.

Peace!

 

[JohnnieDarko]

Thanks Sabatasso, I'm trying these out now.

One thing though: Isn't +15 for shot technique a bit high? Most strikers have 90 anyways, they would max out at 99. And with +30, even the heavy lump CB's can take shots like Robben did vs ManUtd.

 

[Sabatasso]

JohnnieDarko, my experience with shot technique is that anything below 90 makes players shoot craptastic if there's a defender in a 2-3 meter radius around the shooter. at 99 shot technique you will have a hard time shooting when defenders are in physical contact with the player, from a personal experience point of view I never had a hard time shooting unless i was physically under pressure, a defender close but not in contact did not affect the shot much, but it affected where I wanted to shoot and I often used pressuring defenders to "cover" the shot from the keeper quite a lot, and I was never a professional footy player. So I figured if I was able to do it as an amateur midfield/attacker then surely most professionals would have no problems getting off a decent shot under moderate non-physical pressure.

I forgot to add that I have put a max 95 on all abilities, because I personally think the above 95 add too much of a difference, and in most cases the players who got more than 95 becomes harder to control because of it.
examples: 99 acceleration makes the player prone to pushing the ball too far ahead if you start sprinting from a "stand still"
99 top speed makes your player able to "run circles" around a slow defender
and so on, the difference between 95-96 is much bigger than 88-89 for example.
99 Agility and Response makes it near impossible to do fancy special abilities because you have to pull them off so fast because any touch on the movement stick will turn your player in that direction rather than "checking" if you did a "series of movement" to pull of a special move.

But the shot technique boost is mainly done to make the AI more lethal infront of goal, this will be especially welcome when playing BAL for example.
I have a BAL only OF that I have raised agility by 10 for everyone, and a minimum of 80 response for all players, in addition to the ones mentioned above. I personally quite like using that particular OF when playing ML and World Cups also, because combined with Professional difficulty these boosts makes the game act like Top Player without so much AI cheating.

Peace!


(edit) PS. the -10 heading for CD's are basically because I got tired of seeing regular CD's constantly beating the likes of Crespo in the air when Crespo was running full speed into the are an jumping while the defender outjumped him from a stand-still position. That's not realistic, and since most defenders got quite nice balance to add to their heading force I chose to do it this way and it makes the AI more lethal on crosses, in BAL i only win headers in opposition area if i'm unmarked anyway, regardless of my height.

 

[blazer89]

Sabatasso, if I played on a PC you bet I'd do individual player edits. It would be nice if the developers would add a comprehensive player editor to the game. In fact I'm gonna suggest that, even though I think it's probably a long shot and some people will likely even hate the idea.

At any rate...

Just had a great game (on PS3) that makes all these edits worth it... As Aston Villa vs. Shakhtar Donetsk in ML in the Europa League group stage...

Managed to score in the 87th minute to tie in a game where I was getting dominated. Friedel made a couple of brilliant saves to keep the game close, then I got that last goal by stealing a pass in midfield... Passing it up to Agbonlahor on the counter... Pushing it up the left side with his speed, then passing it to Hesky (late sub) for an easy one touch goal.

I was outshot something like 12-6, using 20 minute halves... And like I say, Shakhtar was a constant threat... And I'm not sure where they rank as a club, though I'm pretty sure they aren't a top club.

Seems like maybe one out of every three games in this ML (as Aston Villa in the EPL) I get a very good to great game with all these edits. The rest still tend to show some of the game's weaknesses... But even those are okay for the most part, or at least better than the default.

 

[JohnnieDarko]

Thanks Sabatasso, your reply answered a couple of questions I hadn't even asked yet.

JohnnieDarko, my experience with shot technique is that anything below 90 makes players shoot craptastic if there's a defender in a 2-3 meter radius around the shooter. at 99 shot technique you will have a hard time shooting when defenders are in physical contact with the player, from a personal experience point of view I never had a hard time shooting unless i was physically under pressure, a defender close but not in contact did not affect the shot much, but it affected where I wanted to shoot and I often used pressuring defenders to "cover" the shot from the keeper quite a lot, and I was never a professional footy player. So I figured if I was able to do it as an amateur midfield/attacker then surely most professionals would have no problems getting off a decent shot under moderate non-physical pressure.

Totally agree. I did this mod and although I see a number of unrealistic bicycle kicks happening, the game has improved for the better. This time, not having your defender between the attacker and the goal means punishment, just like in real life. You can't just dance around an attacker anymore and assume he'll be so distracted that he messes up the shot. This is a great improvement,

I forgot to add that I have put a max 95 on all abilities, because I personally think the above 95 add too much of a difference, and in most cases the players who got more than 95 becomes harder to control because of it.
examples: 99 acceleration makes the player prone to pushing the ball too far ahead if you start sprinting from a "stand still"
99 top speed makes your player able to "run circles" around a slow defender
and so on, the difference between 95-96 is much bigger than 88-89 for example.
99 Agility and Response makes it near impossible to do fancy special abilities because you have to pull them off so fast because any touch on the movement stick will turn your player in that direction rather than "checking" if you did a "series of movement" to pull of a special move.

Ha, I've thought about this, but it's too late now. Combined with the agility editing in the thread about team sliders, quite a lot of players have a 97 to 99 rating. I don't mind really, because I don't do a lot of tricks, and it makes the cpu (and my friends) a lot more dangerous up front. If their players can turn quicker, you really have to concentrate in defense. This is also a great improvement, because in the 'standard pes' you can basically just let go of all controls, and the cpu will still not create chances for itself. I do have the speed capped on 95, because like you said, the speeds are a bit weird.

But the shot technique boost is mainly done to make the AI more lethal infront of goal, this will be especially welcome when playing BAL for example.
I have a BAL only OF that I have raised agility by 10 for everyone, and a minimum of 80 response for all players, in addition to the ones mentioned above. I personally quite like using that particular OF when playing ML and World Cups also, because combined with Professional difficulty these boosts makes the game act like Top Player without so much AI cheating.

This is actually smart: If the difficulty of the game is too low, just increase all the stats of the cpu. Of course your own team gets better too, but thats fair. The only thing that changes is that the margin for error becomes smaller as teams get better. Unlike in top player, where the cpu also has unfair scripted actions popping up. (or so I've heard, I dont play top player since I did the teamsliders mods)

Peace!

(edit) PS. the -10 heading for CD's are basically because I got tired of seeing regular CD's constantly beating the likes of Crespo in the air when Crespo was running full speed into the are an jumping while the defender outjumped him from a stand-still position. That's not realistic, and since most defenders got quite nice balance to add to their heading force I chose to do it this way and it makes the AI more lethal on crosses, in BAL i only win headers in opposition area if i'm unmarked anyway, regardless of my height.

I was thinking the same thing here. Now to defend corners you must actually pick a good defender and head the ball away, instead of just pressing the shoot button with whoever is selected.

Thanks man for your effort and writeups. My friends and I play pes a lot now that I've made these changes, and we love it. With the mods of this thread, the teamsliders mods, and the pesedit option file, I now have a pes that's a lot of fun to play. Also thanks to all others who have contributed to improving this game, you know who you are.

 

[Ant1975]

Cheers for this will try it

 

[bluechampion]

Solution: Get yourself Winning Eleven 2010 Challenge of the Blue Samurai. This is so much better than PES 2010 or WE 2010. Even though its better now I've also edited individual stats for top speed, acceleration, dribbling speed and short passing speed. I've also adjusted the body balance, agility and technique so that the game also looks nice and these buggers play like pros. Now the game plays in a very realistic speed and proper build up play is possible and rewarded. I'd make my option file available for download someday.

 

[Cesc Fabregas]

there are still great games without those edits. As arsenal, i had manchester united in my first cup tie and it was an amazing tie. First match: 3-3, They scored 3 times before halftime before i moved arshavin up to attack, then it ended 3-3. They were a constant threat. and then second match 3-2, they got a goal. i got 1, they got 1 and i equalised and got a goal late in stoppage time for the win.

So you don't need to edit it much imo

 

[st. louis]

While I certainly appreciate everyones efforts, I feel that the game engine is broken.

To test out some stat changes from PES database, I have been watching the computer play against itself in exhibition matches. I was trying to see how stat changes to Maradona would affect his performance. Without changing any stats, it is amazing how different he plays when playing AMF compared to SS. When playing as an AMF, he refuses to dribble at all, passing instantly. This lead me to notice how there is almost no attacking impetus from any midfielders. As a SS he becomes much more like his real life counterpart by using his dribbling to create goalscoring chances.

These games I was watching were between the Classic Argies and Standard Liege. Believe it or not, Liege won all 3 games with Argentina failing to score a single goal( including the Argies getting drubbed 3-0 once).

I have played over 500 games on top player and am sick of the lack of attacking play from the computer. I have tried various things but have just accepted that Konami has a broken game engine. I don't feel like trying to fix it any longer.