Mitigate the Scripting and Computer-Controlled Decisions

[wowie]

I don't want to flood this new section with threads but the one thing I will be looking for in PES 2010 is less automated moves and tactics.

It sounds strange to say so but, in my opinion, PES 2008 and 2009 suffer from one, and ONLY one thing: excessive computer involvement. I find myself playing too many games where the computer decides to auto-slide tackle in the box, or my defenders will run helter skelter against their attack arrows simply because the opposition is putting on pressure.

With the addition of new features and because of the limitation of 10 fingers on our hands, we have to let the computer make a lot of the real-time decisions. That being said, a truly intelligent and enjoyable football game will give the user as much control as possible and leave the un-doable tasks to the computer.

Simply put, I'm not expecting PES 2010 to have all the features that competition football games have. I just want the features that are included, to be perfected. So, for this year, I will be satisfied with:

*Crisper passing
*Less random momentum shifts
*No stats boosting (with exception of arrows). So, no Maldini catching up to Messi.
*Players make more intelligent runs and position themselves better. Sorry cut-back goals!
*Less biased referees. This means NO fouls in the box.
*A very creative AI, in place of the steam-roller offense we current have.
*Revamped Master League with more realistic player signings with higher difficulty.

With that being said, I am happy that this section was created and Konami is taking player feedback. Good luck to PES 2010 and hopefully we can see some gameplay footage soon.

 

[requiem7]

Better ball physics. There is something not right about the ball.

 

[shaun7]

As wowie said. The CPU controls the decisions too much. It's involvment is just too much. There is a few amount of skill involved in 2 player matches. The cpu decides who the momentum will go to, even if you did an all attack in the first half. You have to have luck to win. That's not true skill. You don't feel satisfied when that happens. So I suggest less cpu involvment and more skill needed.

 

[zizou4ever]

Yes, I believe that scripting is one of the most annoying things in the game.
You see, it is not nice when you see your own players become suddenly "stupid" or slower just because COM "needs" to score in order to make the game more "exciting". It doesn't add excitement to the game, but frustration, because you feel that it doesn't matter what you do in the game: COM will just score.

Like Wowie said, when the "momentum" changes, the stats of the COM increases unrealistically.

The game would improve a lot in enjoyment if there was no scripting with cheating for COM. More intelligent and tough COM is what we want but not a cheater one...

 

[wowie]

Yes, I believe that scripting is one of the most annoying things in the game.
You see, it is not nice when you see your own players become suddenly "stupid" or slower just because COM "needs" to score in order to make the game more "exciting". It doesn't add excitement to the game, but frustration, because you feel that it doesn't matter what you do in the game: COM will just score.

Exactly. Konami needs to find a new innovative way to remove this kind of stuff and still keep the game unpredictable.

 

[byrnie05]

The number of times I've suffered by the computer making my player slide or mess up a pass so the computer can steal a winner really begins to infuriate me after a while.

You can tell right from kick-off if the game is going to be scripted and it's just not on.

 

[byrnie05]

This has just happened again. 88th minute, ball goes in the box, two of my players go in, I've not pressed any buttons and the second man controlled by the computer dives in, gets sent off and gives away the penalty. I've now just lost 1-0, despite it being an open game.

Stop this AI cheating, please. It cheapens the game immensely as well as makes you sour at the game.

 

[ykl]

Post no.2....What happened to the ball physic? its look real and nice....only the sound a bit weired when the player kick the ball. Even fifa fans also impress by pes09 ball physic.

 

[iamcanadianeh]

I've made this same point several times in the forums and I'll make it again in simple terms:

Konami - be aware that there are some of us who think that there is no such thing as cpu "cheating" in PES. I, for one, appreciate the increased difficulty in PES 2009, and I am concerned that listening to the fans might lead to the game becoming even easier than it already is. I have no problem with AI that fights back, and I do not believe the talk about so-called "stats boosting" or "cheating" is an accurate description of what is actually happening in the game, especially since the CPU will often miss on great chances late in the game, and even penalties. I rarely ever lose to the AI, so I want PES 2010 to be even tougher. More importantly, I really do appreciate those games where the CPU makes a last minute attempt to come back, and I think it's a fair depiction of what happens in a lot of real life games.

You need to hear both sides of this argument, and for those who want to disagree, well, fine, but you need to accept the fact that some of us don't see it that way. I personally accept the fact that some people have a problem with the AI in PES 09, and find it cheap. My own play experience on Top PLayer with less than super star players is the opposite, however, so I can't help but speak my mind.

I think the problem really comes down to the difficulty settings. There needs to a be a sixth star IMO, and the easier difficulty settings need to be made more balanced (not too easy, and not too hard).

 

[zizou4ever]

iamcanadianeh,

no one here is asking for an easier game. Actually it's the opposite!!

What we want is that the AI stops cheating. That's it! If the COM comes and plays very well, closing the spaces while defending and making good attacks, that's great! Wonderful! It's what we want. However we can see (if you don't, sorry, but it happens) the COM cheating in many opportunities, making our players slower and scoring goals after series of stupid mistakes of our own player that we don't have even the control! That's frustrating.

I believe that the scripting exists because of a poor AI. If the game had a good AI, it would not be necessary this to make the game more "exciting".

I've played PES since PES3 at least 1-2 hours a day (maybe more on weekends). I don't remember last time I lost to the COM. I frequently finish a ML season only with victories or sometimes with victories and one draw (always on Top Player). Even though I see clearly the cheating by the COM and the scripting in the game. And it's been worse in PES 2008 and PES 2009. I don't want that. I want a better AI, just that.

 

[shaun7]

^Very well explained.
Look at pes 5. It was harder than pes 09, but the AI cheating was less. We had control over our players unlike in pes 09 where the CPU automatically decides to slow down your player and make him unresponsive and etc.......

 

[Lugash]

The auto sliding is the thing that made me defect to FIFA this year. And to those of you who say the game is too easy, might I ask what team your playing with. Personally I don't buy too many great players to keep it a challenge.

 

[Barca FC]

Unbalanced AI

Many of you have probably noticed the massive inbalance between the COM players and human controlled players. To explain my point I will use an example. In TOP PLAYER mode...if you play a game against the COM teams, it seems that the AI players controlled by the COM on the oposition are far better than your players (even if you are both using the same team, line-ups, formation etc.) This is not to say the human player is not as skilled but in my opinion it is almost as if their stats are better. In addition, the COM rarely loses the ball, marks your players closer than your (AI teammates) mark its players and is less affected by pressure when being chased, in 1v1 situations and other numerous aspects of the game.

In my opinion the first thing that needs to be addressed in PES is the AI.

 

[byrnie05]

It's borked just as much on Professional (or whatever 3 stars is these days) which I always used to stay on as I enjoyed the free-flowing game and decent Ai that still meant I'd lose if I didn't keep my wits about me.

As for the AI buggering up, yes it happens; you can be trying to clear a ball for touch after touch, pressing clear and it going 3 feet, because you don't dare hold the button for a longer kick, because the AI is so boosted they're right in front of you, marking every defender and every outlet like some sort of team of supermen.

Pro Evo 09 is fun, but PS2 PES 06 was much more enjoyable without such evident cheating.

 

[iamcanadianeh]

Glad to hear that the majority seem to understand what I was saying. Sorry if it came off harsh, but I'm concerned about what impression Konami will get from this. I agree that there are problems with the AI, and I agree that this results in what appears to be cheating... I also agree that it needs to be fixed, especially because if so many people are interpreting it as cheating, then there's a fact in that which Konami must consider. I think the truth however is that it's just problems with the AI which make it seem like cheating, not actual intentional stat boosting or anything like that.

Also, they need to be aware that some of us would be very unhappy if we ended up with an easier PES 2010 as a result of them trying to fix this issue.

Hope that's all clear as mud :huh:.

 

[shaun7]

So all in all, MAKE PES 2010 MORE DIFFICULT WITHOUT AI CHEATING. I know it can be done. For example on higher difficulties, the AI would be able to hold the ball more and make better passes and be more intelligent, BUT LEAVE YOUR PLAYERS ALONE AND HAVE YOU CONTROL THEM NOT AI.

 

[iamcanadianeh]

^ And there we have it.

Common Ground

 

[Barca FC]

Many PES players have voiced the need for the AI to be revamped in favour of one which maintains the human players control over the outcome of the game. The AI's involvement is waay to much for my liking and here are reasons why it should be revamped or at leaste an option allowing users to turn it off should be included.

1. Defending - AI teammates make too many rash tackles which result in penalties and red cards!

2. Defending - Some human players prefer for their left/right backs to stay back to minimise the effect of counterattacks. However, this is very difficult to achieve in PES. Solutons that some players use are:
-Set LB/RB as CB's - but the AI will push them infield leaving flanks exposed.
-Attampt to use Backward pointing Attack arrows - This is useless as RB/LB continue to move up in attack.

3. Off the ball movement - For me, the off-the ball movement in PES is not to my liking. Im constantly fighting the AI settings while trying to keep my plyers in positions where they can receive the ball. The AI controlled movement makes the use of the attack arrows useless. In my opinion I want to be able to fully control where my players are making their runs to...I dont want the AI controlling where IT THINKS my player should be going.

If I play a one-two in order to create space why should my defensive midfielder join the strikers for the rest of the move. If he doesnt receive it, he must not stay with the forwards. I am just disapponted with the AI which is ruining the fun and skill involved in playing the game.

 

[MatTheCat]

This is the sort of thread which SHOULD be top of the 'feedback' pile in Konamis offices (minus the n00bs whinging about things like ball physics)

BUMP.

 

[byrnie05]

Did 2009 still use TeamVision?

If it did, it's obvious after two games - where it learns how you play and kills you off with little chance to play any other way once the AI for your team goes into meltdown - just doesn't work.