jus read this on ign....sorry if this has been posted elsewhere!!
July 29, 2004 - With special thanks to our buddies at Pelaaja-Magazine, we've managed to grab the first impressions on the final version of Winning Eleven 8. This particular hands-on is after half a day's worth of playing so there's still a ton of things missing in this preview, but we wanted to get the word out as soon as we could. Besides, the gameplay is so deep it could take weeks to uncover all the new things that World Soccer Winning Eleven 8 has to offer anyway.
That said, Konami has taken a big step to finally delivering the kind of depth fans have been expecting. Its football, excuse me, soccer franchise, is one of the few PlayStation 2 series that sells over a million units in its native Japan. Winning Eleven 7 sold over 1.4 million units and alongside Metal Gear Solid, has become Konami's most lucrative title around the world.
Konami has doubled the club teams in Winning Eleven 8 and it has the full La Liga (Spain), Serie A (Italy) and Erededivise (Netherlands) licenses. This means real player names, real kits with sponsor logos, and a full selection of teams from each series first division. A large majority of national teams use real player names too, but the usual suspects such as Netherlands and Chech have some funnily named players which just happen to look exactly like they do in their respective national teams. The rosters are as usual out of date, but with deeper rosters and an improved interface, so it's far easier and faster to make the updates yourself.
Visuals
The presentation finally gets a face-lift as the old menus and interface have been jettisoned in favor of a more streamlined and visually appealing look. The actual in-match strategy setup is very much the same as it was before (with loads more options) but the main menu has been redone. Basically everything is laid out better and is more user-friendly.
This is especially helpful in the Editing mode where stadium, cup, team and player names can be edited. Updating teams is now far easier than previously too since you're able to freely move players from one team to another without having to unlock the special options. You only need to select a team, then the player and then choose the team you want him on. That's it. No more scrolling for empty slots and filling in the blanks. The CPU automatically picks a player from the reserves too, filling out the departing players' position.
The streamlined interface is also evident during matches as you are no longer required to go into the main strategy menu to make substitutions. These can be made by pressing start and then accessing the substitutions menu, where you can make immediate changes. Going into the main strategy menus is almost instantaneous. The load times are noticeably quicker than before.
While the presentation has been improved so have the in-game graphics. The kits get dirtier as a match progresses and there's lots of nice touches such as a variety of cut-scenes as subs enter the pitch and players getting into arguments with the ref. These don't mess up the flow of the gameplay either; unlike those of FIFA 2004.
The introductions before each match and post-match highlight the benefits from the improved camera angles which make replays feel more realistic. Before each match, the humidity, wind, and weather are shown via small icons, but they don't seem to have any affect on the gameplay. Unless it's raining. There's a lot of little graphical details on various players such as Cristiano Ronaldo's small bits of white tape on his ear-rings, Guti's ear-rings, Mejia's bandana, Rui Costa's low socks, Zidane's tighter socks and so on. These are sure to send fans into frenzy. The referee is also on the pitch and while this is a cool little detail, the ref does sometimes confuse the gameplay as you could accidentally pass the ball to him.
Player models have also been improved. There is a greater variety in the models, not just in height as before, but also in mass. The faces of the players are superb in most cases and when it comes to the licensed teams and their players (such as AC Milan and Real Madrid), even their reserve players faces look exactly like the real things. Players such as Zidane, Gattuso and Maldini look spookily like themselves. British teams aren't licensed but almost all the players in the premiership look quite correct.
The faces have more polys in them than before as do the player models, which look more organic than they have in the previous games. So Ronaldinho's and Michael Reizigers uh, interesting looking mugs, are just like those of their counterparts. The shirt textures are also a tad better with creases which help to make them look a bit more realistic.
There is, however, slowdown during corner kicks and on occasion when the penalty area gets really crowded. The framerate doesn't get choppy but the game just slows overall. This isn't bad as it isn't frequent, but the improved graphics and the referee obviously take their toll. Luckily, these problems will be fixed in the PAL release just as before, and likely the American version as well.
There are loads of small detailed animations such as player quick turns and feints, and it's amazing how much animation the developers have managed to cram in here. You can really see when players using their feet in different ways: some players use the outer sole of their foot more often to make passes and players like Rui Costa just lean back and rifle passes around.
What are very cool are the individual animations, though. The fact that not every player uses the same animation set helps the game really come alive. Some key players such as Ronaldo, Beckham, Ronaldinho, Zidane and Cristiano Ronaldo have animations specific to them and not just during free-kicks and corner kicks either. For example Ronaldo's dribbling and turning on occasion looks just as "bulky" as it does in real life. This level of individuality does a lot to make key players more personified. There are several individual special dribbles too, such as Ronaldo's nifty move which could be seen in the recent Nike commercials. We werent able to pull this off, though, but it's definitely in the game. No word yet if Totti's spitting move is in here!
The stadiums (and yes, the grass) look magnificent and there's loads of country/team specific flags draped over various parts of the stadiums. The commentary is slightly more reserved than before and we don't understand a word of it, but it certainly sounds great, if a bit less enthusiastic than before.
Gameplay
First of all, the goalkeepers don't drop the ball as often as they did in WE7I and even when they don't catch the ball, they tend to fist it away from danger. It's still too early to say just how good the keeper AI is, but it certainly feels and looks to be much more realistic than before, especially in one-on-one situations. By pressing L1 and Triangle when playing defense, you gain full control over your keeper. This is very helpful.
As for the gameplay in general, it's simply brilliant. Pro Evolution Soccer 3 had some issues with it's crossing and Winning Eleven 7 International suffered from slightly floaty ball physics. It was also easy to lose possession as a slight touch from another player resulted in the ball bouncing away from your possession. In Winning Eleven 8 Konami seems to have struck a perfect balance: never before has a Winning Eleven on the PS2 felt this good. The ball physics have been honed for years and they are about as close as they can probably get.
Interestingly, the pace of the gameplay has been slowed down a bit to achieve a more realistic play style. The way the midfield competes has become more realistic as players tend to be more like they are in real-life. Since you have more control over your players it's a tad easier to hold onto the ball in the midfield and try to carve openings for your forwards or attacking midfielders. In the matches we played with and against the CPU players such as Giggs and Lampard felt and looked like they do in real-life: Giggs was making marauding runs on the left and Lampard was all over the midfield and getting into shooting positions. The forwards get into position more aggressively and you don't have to use Triangle to make it through passes; as a well-timed press of the X-button will also carve up the defense.
Highly skilled strikers such as Andriy Schevchenko are very dangerous when they get the ball near the goal area and not just due to their speed, but for a combination of dribbling skill and ability to hold onto the ball. This is conveyed very well in WE8. Having played against a skilled human opponent who was using Manchester United, you were acutely aware that when Van Nistelrooy got the ball, you were in trouble. Previously it was mainly the speed of, say Michael Owen, that made him a superior striker in the game; but now it's more about the overall skill. Just as in real-life there's very little room for error in one-on-one situations.
There's other realism in Winning Eleven 8 still as the players have better physics applied to them. Players don't immediately run at their top speed, or stop and turn on dime; it takes a bit of time. This is where the game improves over past efforts as the players speed, size, weight and skill have real effect on gameplay. You can really see this when you try to get around flat-footed defenders who you can get past and brush off even when they try to catch you.
Dribbling is more accurate too, and faster and more effective than before. So it's entirely possible to weave out of challenges, get that bit of luck and dribble past a few defenders to let loose a shot at goal. If you mis-position yourself or make an ill-timed tackle, the forward will get past you and unlike in WE7I where slow-ass defenders caught up to the fastest of players. That wont happen here.
Passing has also been changed and it's more accurate. Depending on which pass system you use (as usual there's five different long pass methods) you can get the CPU to help you or have full control over your passes. Short passes are basically the same as before but they are more accurate depending on which way you press on the d-pad (I didn't play on analog). This is actually a big improvement. In previous games, you often passed to the wrong player when there was another guy in the same acre of space. This happens far, far less often in WE8. If you attack towards the right and want to pass to the player further up the field, you just press left and X, but if you want to pass to a player running close and parallel to you just press up or down. This works a whole lot better than before.
You can even have more control over your crosses near the penalty area even when using the default long pass method. The crosses will go into nine different areas of the box depending on where you press the d-pad. Leave the d-pad neutral and the ball will land near the penalty spot, but press down/right (when attacking to the right on the lower hand side of the pitch) and you'll cross to the near post. You can still tap, double tap or triple tap long passes, but this effects the speed and height of the ball more than the positioning of the ball. During our test matches there were awesome moments where a striker ran into the box and stretched his leg onto a fast low pass and hit it in the back of the net even.
Heading was a weak aspect in Pro Evolution Soccer 3 and in WE8 is definitely looking better. There's various ways of heading the ball and in some cases we managed to score with some bullet headers a'la Crespo and Vieri. The animation on these look awesome as you can really see the player "winding" his head for the shot and then hitting the ball. The players also chest the ball in various ways, and sometimes can even get on their knees for a low chest.
Free kicks are rather cool. When a free-kick comes up you can press select to call up another player to help out. You can use him to pass the ball to your kicker and try to get your shot around the wall, or you can just have the other player run over the ball faking it, while another player actually takes the shot. There are a few variations available to try out with the free-kicks and these are very welcome.
The Corner kicks too work quite well as you seem to have more control over your players both in defensive and offensive attacks. At least you don't score with a towering header nearly as often as you did in PES3 and to a lesser extent WE7I.
Throw-in's have traditionally been a weak element in the series, but in Winning Eleven 8 the mechanics are better. You don't switch between target players upon which they in the past started moving and the CPU immediately marked them. Now you simply control the player who throws the ball. Depending where you aim your throw, your team players will try to create space for themselves and get the ball. There's a bit of AI involved as once you aim towards a certain player and press the throw button, both the target player and the player throwing the ball adjust. So when the ball is thrown, the target player will make a run for it and the ball will be thrown into his path instead of the spot where he was standing. A nice little detail when you use the Circle button for a long throw is that the player steps back and takes a few steps to gain more power for the throw.
There's More?
Loads mate. We haven't touched the Master League or any of the cup's yet. Or messed around with the jersey editor, which looks just as confusing as it did last time. There's some other nice additions we noticed too, such as more stats after matches. You can actually look at a list of all the passes each player has made and you can see to whom the pass was made to. Key situations are also listed in a new way. You can see all the players involved in producing a goal or a close call.
Winning Eleven 8 will turn into Pro Evolution Soccer 4 for the PAL markets and see a release in early October. There will be very slight updates such as optimizing the framerate, but we don't know yet if the rosters will be updated. It is unlikely. We'll be back with more updates once we've played more of the greatest football game ever devised.
July 29, 2004 - With special thanks to our buddies at Pelaaja-Magazine, we've managed to grab the first impressions on the final version of Winning Eleven 8. This particular hands-on is after half a day's worth of playing so there's still a ton of things missing in this preview, but we wanted to get the word out as soon as we could. Besides, the gameplay is so deep it could take weeks to uncover all the new things that World Soccer Winning Eleven 8 has to offer anyway.
That said, Konami has taken a big step to finally delivering the kind of depth fans have been expecting. Its football, excuse me, soccer franchise, is one of the few PlayStation 2 series that sells over a million units in its native Japan. Winning Eleven 7 sold over 1.4 million units and alongside Metal Gear Solid, has become Konami's most lucrative title around the world.
Konami has doubled the club teams in Winning Eleven 8 and it has the full La Liga (Spain), Serie A (Italy) and Erededivise (Netherlands) licenses. This means real player names, real kits with sponsor logos, and a full selection of teams from each series first division. A large majority of national teams use real player names too, but the usual suspects such as Netherlands and Chech have some funnily named players which just happen to look exactly like they do in their respective national teams. The rosters are as usual out of date, but with deeper rosters and an improved interface, so it's far easier and faster to make the updates yourself.
Visuals
The presentation finally gets a face-lift as the old menus and interface have been jettisoned in favor of a more streamlined and visually appealing look. The actual in-match strategy setup is very much the same as it was before (with loads more options) but the main menu has been redone. Basically everything is laid out better and is more user-friendly.
This is especially helpful in the Editing mode where stadium, cup, team and player names can be edited. Updating teams is now far easier than previously too since you're able to freely move players from one team to another without having to unlock the special options. You only need to select a team, then the player and then choose the team you want him on. That's it. No more scrolling for empty slots and filling in the blanks. The CPU automatically picks a player from the reserves too, filling out the departing players' position.
The streamlined interface is also evident during matches as you are no longer required to go into the main strategy menu to make substitutions. These can be made by pressing start and then accessing the substitutions menu, where you can make immediate changes. Going into the main strategy menus is almost instantaneous. The load times are noticeably quicker than before.
While the presentation has been improved so have the in-game graphics. The kits get dirtier as a match progresses and there's lots of nice touches such as a variety of cut-scenes as subs enter the pitch and players getting into arguments with the ref. These don't mess up the flow of the gameplay either; unlike those of FIFA 2004.
The introductions before each match and post-match highlight the benefits from the improved camera angles which make replays feel more realistic. Before each match, the humidity, wind, and weather are shown via small icons, but they don't seem to have any affect on the gameplay. Unless it's raining. There's a lot of little graphical details on various players such as Cristiano Ronaldo's small bits of white tape on his ear-rings, Guti's ear-rings, Mejia's bandana, Rui Costa's low socks, Zidane's tighter socks and so on. These are sure to send fans into frenzy. The referee is also on the pitch and while this is a cool little detail, the ref does sometimes confuse the gameplay as you could accidentally pass the ball to him.
Player models have also been improved. There is a greater variety in the models, not just in height as before, but also in mass. The faces of the players are superb in most cases and when it comes to the licensed teams and their players (such as AC Milan and Real Madrid), even their reserve players faces look exactly like the real things. Players such as Zidane, Gattuso and Maldini look spookily like themselves. British teams aren't licensed but almost all the players in the premiership look quite correct.
The faces have more polys in them than before as do the player models, which look more organic than they have in the previous games. So Ronaldinho's and Michael Reizigers uh, interesting looking mugs, are just like those of their counterparts. The shirt textures are also a tad better with creases which help to make them look a bit more realistic.
There is, however, slowdown during corner kicks and on occasion when the penalty area gets really crowded. The framerate doesn't get choppy but the game just slows overall. This isn't bad as it isn't frequent, but the improved graphics and the referee obviously take their toll. Luckily, these problems will be fixed in the PAL release just as before, and likely the American version as well.
There are loads of small detailed animations such as player quick turns and feints, and it's amazing how much animation the developers have managed to cram in here. You can really see when players using their feet in different ways: some players use the outer sole of their foot more often to make passes and players like Rui Costa just lean back and rifle passes around.
What are very cool are the individual animations, though. The fact that not every player uses the same animation set helps the game really come alive. Some key players such as Ronaldo, Beckham, Ronaldinho, Zidane and Cristiano Ronaldo have animations specific to them and not just during free-kicks and corner kicks either. For example Ronaldo's dribbling and turning on occasion looks just as "bulky" as it does in real life. This level of individuality does a lot to make key players more personified. There are several individual special dribbles too, such as Ronaldo's nifty move which could be seen in the recent Nike commercials. We werent able to pull this off, though, but it's definitely in the game. No word yet if Totti's spitting move is in here!
The stadiums (and yes, the grass) look magnificent and there's loads of country/team specific flags draped over various parts of the stadiums. The commentary is slightly more reserved than before and we don't understand a word of it, but it certainly sounds great, if a bit less enthusiastic than before.
Gameplay
First of all, the goalkeepers don't drop the ball as often as they did in WE7I and even when they don't catch the ball, they tend to fist it away from danger. It's still too early to say just how good the keeper AI is, but it certainly feels and looks to be much more realistic than before, especially in one-on-one situations. By pressing L1 and Triangle when playing defense, you gain full control over your keeper. This is very helpful.
As for the gameplay in general, it's simply brilliant. Pro Evolution Soccer 3 had some issues with it's crossing and Winning Eleven 7 International suffered from slightly floaty ball physics. It was also easy to lose possession as a slight touch from another player resulted in the ball bouncing away from your possession. In Winning Eleven 8 Konami seems to have struck a perfect balance: never before has a Winning Eleven on the PS2 felt this good. The ball physics have been honed for years and they are about as close as they can probably get.
Interestingly, the pace of the gameplay has been slowed down a bit to achieve a more realistic play style. The way the midfield competes has become more realistic as players tend to be more like they are in real-life. Since you have more control over your players it's a tad easier to hold onto the ball in the midfield and try to carve openings for your forwards or attacking midfielders. In the matches we played with and against the CPU players such as Giggs and Lampard felt and looked like they do in real-life: Giggs was making marauding runs on the left and Lampard was all over the midfield and getting into shooting positions. The forwards get into position more aggressively and you don't have to use Triangle to make it through passes; as a well-timed press of the X-button will also carve up the defense.
Highly skilled strikers such as Andriy Schevchenko are very dangerous when they get the ball near the goal area and not just due to their speed, but for a combination of dribbling skill and ability to hold onto the ball. This is conveyed very well in WE8. Having played against a skilled human opponent who was using Manchester United, you were acutely aware that when Van Nistelrooy got the ball, you were in trouble. Previously it was mainly the speed of, say Michael Owen, that made him a superior striker in the game; but now it's more about the overall skill. Just as in real-life there's very little room for error in one-on-one situations.
There's other realism in Winning Eleven 8 still as the players have better physics applied to them. Players don't immediately run at their top speed, or stop and turn on dime; it takes a bit of time. This is where the game improves over past efforts as the players speed, size, weight and skill have real effect on gameplay. You can really see this when you try to get around flat-footed defenders who you can get past and brush off even when they try to catch you.
Dribbling is more accurate too, and faster and more effective than before. So it's entirely possible to weave out of challenges, get that bit of luck and dribble past a few defenders to let loose a shot at goal. If you mis-position yourself or make an ill-timed tackle, the forward will get past you and unlike in WE7I where slow-ass defenders caught up to the fastest of players. That wont happen here.
Passing has also been changed and it's more accurate. Depending on which pass system you use (as usual there's five different long pass methods) you can get the CPU to help you or have full control over your passes. Short passes are basically the same as before but they are more accurate depending on which way you press on the d-pad (I didn't play on analog). This is actually a big improvement. In previous games, you often passed to the wrong player when there was another guy in the same acre of space. This happens far, far less often in WE8. If you attack towards the right and want to pass to the player further up the field, you just press left and X, but if you want to pass to a player running close and parallel to you just press up or down. This works a whole lot better than before.
You can even have more control over your crosses near the penalty area even when using the default long pass method. The crosses will go into nine different areas of the box depending on where you press the d-pad. Leave the d-pad neutral and the ball will land near the penalty spot, but press down/right (when attacking to the right on the lower hand side of the pitch) and you'll cross to the near post. You can still tap, double tap or triple tap long passes, but this effects the speed and height of the ball more than the positioning of the ball. During our test matches there were awesome moments where a striker ran into the box and stretched his leg onto a fast low pass and hit it in the back of the net even.
Heading was a weak aspect in Pro Evolution Soccer 3 and in WE8 is definitely looking better. There's various ways of heading the ball and in some cases we managed to score with some bullet headers a'la Crespo and Vieri. The animation on these look awesome as you can really see the player "winding" his head for the shot and then hitting the ball. The players also chest the ball in various ways, and sometimes can even get on their knees for a low chest.
Free kicks are rather cool. When a free-kick comes up you can press select to call up another player to help out. You can use him to pass the ball to your kicker and try to get your shot around the wall, or you can just have the other player run over the ball faking it, while another player actually takes the shot. There are a few variations available to try out with the free-kicks and these are very welcome.
The Corner kicks too work quite well as you seem to have more control over your players both in defensive and offensive attacks. At least you don't score with a towering header nearly as often as you did in PES3 and to a lesser extent WE7I.
Throw-in's have traditionally been a weak element in the series, but in Winning Eleven 8 the mechanics are better. You don't switch between target players upon which they in the past started moving and the CPU immediately marked them. Now you simply control the player who throws the ball. Depending where you aim your throw, your team players will try to create space for themselves and get the ball. There's a bit of AI involved as once you aim towards a certain player and press the throw button, both the target player and the player throwing the ball adjust. So when the ball is thrown, the target player will make a run for it and the ball will be thrown into his path instead of the spot where he was standing. A nice little detail when you use the Circle button for a long throw is that the player steps back and takes a few steps to gain more power for the throw.
There's More?
Loads mate. We haven't touched the Master League or any of the cup's yet. Or messed around with the jersey editor, which looks just as confusing as it did last time. There's some other nice additions we noticed too, such as more stats after matches. You can actually look at a list of all the passes each player has made and you can see to whom the pass was made to. Key situations are also listed in a new way. You can see all the players involved in producing a goal or a close call.
Winning Eleven 8 will turn into Pro Evolution Soccer 4 for the PAL markets and see a release in early October. There will be very slight updates such as optimizing the framerate, but we don't know yet if the rosters will be updated. It is unlikely. We'll be back with more updates once we've played more of the greatest football game ever devised.
