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One thing I don't like about pes16...

LEGOFLAMB22

Registered User
As mentioned before keepers aren't the best but actually after my first few games it doesn't seem to be as bad now.

R2 dribble is now useless - it's much more effective to just take your finger off the sprint button and put it back on again at the right moment to go past opposition players.

I used to love using it on old pro evos for every little change in direction and to do dragbacks.

Am i missing something?
 

Rat Monkey

Registered User
R2 dribble is now useless - it's much more effective to just take your finger off the sprint button and put it back on again at the right moment to go past opposition players.

Am i missing something?

Nah, your not missing anything. All you need to do is exactly what you say. Close control doesn't have much use and I always thought the way its done is a bit nonsense to be honest. Close control should be like Fifa's, where the direction your holding the stick is the direction your facing. Far more effective in tight situations for protecting the ball. I mean if your in a tight situation, as it says in the gametips, why would you turn to face the defender who is right on top of you so he can just take the ball off you. Mindless.

Fifa also has a more effective version of another way close control in Pes is also meant to work, which is for taking on a defender and beating them. It's called face up dribbling. Its far quicker and is only something you would use to take on a defender and beat him with a turn of direction and pace. Far more effective for that because of how much faster it is in Fifa.

Pes's close control is neither good for tight situations or facing up to a defender to take him on. 1. Its a bad idea to turn and face the defender in tight situations when you have the ball as you'll lose it, when all you want to do is turn your back and shield it with tight touches so you don't lose the ball. 2. Its too slow and ponderous for taking on a defender and beating him with a turn of pace and direction. The defender just looks at you all day while you crawl up the pitch.

It does neither of the two functions of what its meant to do properly, because it is just a compromise. They need to be done like Fifa and those two functions split into seperate controls. One for close control, the other for taking on a defender while constantly facing them(I would still like to keep the slower version Pes has for this also, because it does have some use if limited.)
 

optimistic

Registered User
@ Ratmonkey

Hi Ratmonkey, I have a question to ask you:

On Super star LV, when playing against Bacelona or other top teams, can you manage to dribble past AI defenders like Pigue, Sergio Ramos, if you can, how to do it? For me, its almost impossible to dribble past these top class defenders, its like they can read my mind. (I am on PS4)

Hope you will reply, thanks in advance.
 

Rat Monkey

Registered User
@ Ratmonkey

Hi Ratmonkey, I have a question to ask you:

On Super star LV, when playing against Bacelona or other top teams, can you manage to dribble past AI defenders like Pigue, Sergio Ramos, if you can, how to do it? For me, its almost impossible to dribble past these top class defenders, its like they can read my mind. (I am on PS4)

Hope you will reply, thanks in advance.

I'm on Top player at the moment, but I'm moving up to Superstar soon as Top player is so easy. Your talking about central defenders there so I find it can be hard to dribble around them as they nearly always have someone to cover them either side of them, unless you want to use tricks which largely I don't. Usually when I'm taking on a player i get as close as I can, then push the stick diagonally to the side of them with tapping sprint or just holding it. Use normal sprint to get as close as you can or close control before hitting sprint. You also run the risk of getting tackled at that close of range especially with normal speed as your player pushes the ball further ahead than close control, but it's very effective if you time it right and get the angle right to beat them at. Not too close an angle that they intercept it, but not too far to the side that they have time to recover. It's a very simple idea that most players use IRL anyway, but its great fun once you get it right. I don't know how effective this is on Superstar as I haven't played it yet.

Other things you could try are, when you play the ball into players feet facing away from goal with a central defender on their back, you could also pull off a feint just before you receive the ball. Push the right stick to the side of the defender and then the left stick towards goal, while still holding the right stick in position. Or press and hold down the right stick button, in the same situation just before receiving the ball, to flick it up and the press the left stick towards goal to flick over the defenders head, while still holding down the right stick button. Both can be quite effective for beating central defenders.

Give those a try. They won't always work but alot of that is done to your own timing and accuracy.
 

optimistic

Registered User
I'm on Top player at the moment, but I'm moving up to Superstar soon as Top player is so easy. Your talking about central defenders there so I find it can be hard to dribble around them as they nearly always have someone to cover them either side of them, unless you want to use tricks which largely I don't. Usually when I'm taking on a player i get as close as I can, then push the stick diagonally to the side of them with tapping sprint or just holding it. Use normal sprint to get as close as you can or close control before hitting sprint. You also run the risk of getting tackled at that close of range especially with normal speed as your player pushes the ball further ahead than close control, but it's very effective if you time it right and get the angle right to beat them at. Not too close an angle that they intercept it, but not too far to the side that they have time to recover. It's a very simple idea that most players use IRL anyway, but its great fun once you get it right. I don't know how effective this is on Superstar as I haven't played it yet.

Other things you could try are, when you play the ball into players feet facing away from goal with a central defender on their back, you could also pull off a feint just before you receive the ball. Push the right stick to the side of the defender and then the left stick towards goal, while still holding the right stick in position. Or press and hold down the right stick button, in the same situation just before receiving the ball, to flick it up and the press the left stick towards goal to flick over the defenders head, while still holding down the right stick button. Both can be quite effective for beating central defenders.

Give those a try. They won't always work but alot of that is done to your own timing and accuracy.

Thanks a lot for your tips, hope you will play on Super star LV real soon and try dribbling past Top class CB like Pigue, also LB or RB like Alves in Baca. As when I play against Baca, only occasionally I have the opportunity to dribble along both wings and cross the ball over to the middle in front of opposition goal without being stopped or intercepted, I am really eager to know some good ways to dribble past Fullback wingers or CBs and thus I can make a cross to the opposition's box or even 1 ON 1 with AI goalie. On Super star, offense is important and also more difficult I think.

good luck with your games
 

Rat Monkey

Registered User
[MENTION=183658]optimistic[/MENTION]

No problem, I hope some of them work which they should do given practice. Yeah, going to move up to Superstar soon. I've only a few games left in a season on Top player, so I'll finish it off first. I've only gotten a handful of really tough games on Top player and they were excellent games, but sadly thats a rarity. I hope Superstar is a big jump up in difficulty.
 

EthanLionel

Registered User
Thanks a lot for your tips, hope you will play on Super star LV real soon and try dribbling past Top class CB like Pigue, also LB or RB like Alves in Baca. As when I play against Baca, only occasionally I have the opportunity to dribble along both wings and cross the ball over to the middle in front of opposition goal without being stopped or intercepted, I am really eager to know some good ways to dribble past Fullback wingers or CBs and thus I can make a cross to the opposition's box or even 1 ON 1 with AI goalie. On Super star, offense is important and also more difficult I think.

good luck with your games

Shot fake is very effective in this year's game even against top CBs on Superstar. Here's Teves fake against Sergio Ramos.
[youtube]woOyw_yQ1Zs&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]


I have to disagree a little about what Ratmonkey said about R2 being useless... I find it quite devastating when used properly. See below links for an example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGjtbv2vjtI (long view)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_EAetrv3mk (close view)

It can be tricky to master but with the right understanding R2 can be used to devastating effect. However, this is gone in PES16.


Last year, that move is very effective. Very acadey way to dribble past defenders but it's fun. This year, it's a bit slow so it's not effective, especially since the AI now are very good in standing tackles.
[youtube]uVkHOyZxHoU&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]
 

Rat Monkey

Registered User
I have to disagree a little about what Ratmonkey said about R2 being useless... I find it quite devastating when used properly. See below links for an example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGjtbv2vjtI (long view)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_EAetrv3mk (close view)

It can be tricky to master but with the right understanding R2 can be used to devastating effect. However, this is gone in PES16.

I'm talking about 16 though, not 15. You still can do that stuff I think in 16, although you say at the end of your post you can't so I'm not really sure what your disagreeing with me about.:erm: I don't know why you didn't just bury it, lol. I just don't find any need for it in 16 to dribble around players as normal dribble and a burst of speed are so effective. Close control is slow and not effective for what I personally want from it. Other people like yourself might like it.

EDIT: Actually I think close control in Pes is just a poor compromise on keeping control of the ball in tight situations and taking players on. Yes, it can be used for it but its not great at doing either. Fifa has these 2 ideas seperated out into 2 different controls and its far better.
 

Rat Monkey

Registered User
Shot fake is very effective in this year's game even against top CBs on Superstar. Here's Teves fake against Sergio Ramos.
[youtube]woOyw_yQ1Zs&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]





Last year, that move is very effective. Very acadey way to dribble past defenders but it's fun. This year, it's a bit slow so it's not effective, especially since the AI now are very good in standing tackles.
[youtube]uVkHOyZxHoU&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

I haven't used shot feint in years, I used to always use in the earlier Pes's. I must give it a wizz again.
 

EthanLionel

Registered User
I haven't used shot feint in years, I used to always use in the earlier Pes's. I must give it a wizz again.
This year's shot feint is very unrealistic. It's so fast, It doesn't even look like a shot feint in the video.:) But it's fun to do a few times in a match.
 

fatehasfans

Registered User
Pes's close control is neither good for tight situations or facing up to a defender to take him on ... It does neither of the two functions of what its meant to do properly, because it is just a compromise.

Sorry you never mentioned which PES so I assumed you were referring to them on the whole.

Also to Ethan have you combinations of R2 and the R-stick with pressing in the L-stick? I think this is really where close-control in 15 shines. Add to this a quickly lined up shot and you will see some extremely devastating results.

I will linked some examples later when I've time.
 

Rat Monkey

Registered User
Sorry you never mentioned which PES so I assumed you were referring to them on the whole.

Also to Ethan have you combinations of R2 and the R-stick with pressing in the L-stick? I think this is really where close-control in 15 shines. Add to this a quickly lined up shot and you will see some extremely devastating results.

I will linked some examples later when I've time.

I know what your talking about dude. I just find it a little slow, especially with how fast 16 is. I don't know if you've tried Fifa's version of that stuff you do in the video, 'face up dribbling'. It's faster and feels more natural. The speed of it on Pes just slows down the attack and breaks up the feel of it too much for me.
 

fatehasfans

Registered User
Yes you're right Ratmonkey, it is slow and it seems rather clunky at first so it would appear to not seem that useful at the start but the important thing to know is that these elements of close-control are situational and understanding when you can use them only comes from experience (and that's not a dig at you btw, keep reading).

Personally, I initially hated how the tricks where implemented in 15, I thought it was a sloppy break from the previously 'clean' methods of getting past players (as done in the previous titles.)
For example in 14 I knew that I could perform a given trick secure in knowing that once executed the animation would lock the physical scenario allowing me to pass the on-coming player clean, so tricks and flicks effectively guaranteed a 'clean' outcome.
This isn't how this is achieved in 15 and initially it was something that really upset me for I began to think that tricks where useless because when I ran through the motions (pressing my usual combinations) expecting to simply stride past defenders the AI player would simply step back and wait for the trick/control animation to end and just take the ball off me at it's conclusion, well this was just infuriating I was often heard screaming at the screen "WTF!!! I'm doing the tricks and they aren't working ....Tricks are useless now!!!
But then through playing more and experimenting with the different game modes I began to understand the conditions and contexts for when the control shifts and close-control tricks can be made. So if done wrong you gain nothing but when done right you gain that bit of space and that's what I love about 15 now, there is a skill in understanding when you can turn the AI inside out, and just as in real football it doesn't always come off but given the correct conditions you can really bamboozle the AI in consecutive strings, almost as if you are achieving combos (if it was a fighting game), and again this takes the knack of understanding of context and timing which I believe has really added an extreme level of depth to the game (whether or not it was intentional). It's not clear cut - it relies on moments when you feel the defenders will over-extend or try to pressure you harder and therefore are drawn closer to you, and it is this area where the magic begins.

Just as I stated to a friend when talking of the game, I said "every time I play 15 I'm learning more." that still applies.

..and everyone is different, so not all players will understand and experience this level of depth but some will. Like my friend for example, he scores the same linear goals over and over (and loves them!), he never creates forward runs with off-the-ball players ahead of him (the L1 + R-stick<-- ability) and never ever sees/understands that peripheral area (just off-screen) where your attackers dwell nearing the offside zone where feeling will tell you when that perfect time is to deliver a through lob - he just sees what is close and visible to him, similar to his ignorance of the radar and he also doesn't know or care to know about the tricks or close control (personally, I think he misses out on so much of the game, as there is so much to his game that he just doesn't improve on). But still, he loves the game nonetheless, but my point being that not everyone will delve into that level of understanding, particularly on close-control, which for me adds so much to the satisfaction of the game.
I guess in real life I'm a creative player too so perhaps it rubs off and maybe I see stuff he doesn't but it's great that the game caters for both.

Sadly, in 16 that depth is gone, the combinations don't work or skip and don't make sense - the whole experience feels a little light and rushed, as if the depth has been replaced with a simpler system. But again that's just me, and in ending I haven't spoken to my friend yet but I'm sure he'll love 16 just the same, though he's always been more direct than me.
 

Rat Monkey

Registered User
[MENTION=227658]fatehasfans[/MENTION]

I understand what your saying and I get what situations you can do it. I just find it too slow and clunky as you say. Yep, probably does bring alot of depth but the slowness of it ruins the flow of attack and speed for me. In Fifa on the other hand, doing that stuff feels so much more natural BECAUSE its quicker and feels natural with the speed of attack. I like to attack defenses with more urgency. The speed of close control in Pes is a little too ponderous for me. It's nice to use sometimes but i rarely do because of its speed. But, my preferred style of dribbling is far simpler. It's just about drawing the defender in while facing him and beating him with a turn of direction and pace. If the speed of close control was as fast as Fifa's face up dribbling then I would use it alot more.
 

fatehasfans

Registered User
I do agree there, the pace is certainly slower. Can I ask what your favourite PES was/is?

Personally I have 4 (given the context they were in)...so the order looks like this...

ISS Pro Evo I & II, then PES 2008, then 2013 and now 2015 but overall if I had to pick one then it would be 15.

I have played FIFA in patches, I played when it was big on the Mega-drive (FIFA '96 if memory serves me right) many moons ago, but I came back around the time when I felt PES was going downhill (between PES 2009-2012), so I played FIFA 2008 and FIFA 2010 and must admit I really enjoyed them they were a massive breath of fresh air, but I haven't played much of it since. I played one game of FIFA 2014 at a friend's house on Xbox and liked it but the PC version was awful so I stayed away, I also tried the 2016 demo for the PC and again thought it wasn't to my liking.

What about you?
 

Rat Monkey

Registered User
I do agree there, the pace is certainly slower. Can I ask what your favourite PES was/is?

Personally I have 4 (given the context they were in)...so the order looks like this...

ISS Pro Evo I & II, then PES 2008, then 2013 and now 2015 but overall if I had to pick one then it would be 15.

I have played FIFA in patches, I played when it was big on the Mega-drive (FIFA '96 if memory serves me right) many moons ago, but I came back around the time when I felt PES was going downhill (between PES 2009-2012), so I played FIFA 2008 and FIFA 2010 and must admit I really enjoyed them they were a massive breath of fresh air, but I haven't played much of it since. I played one game of FIFA 2014 at a friend's house on Xbox and liked it but the PC version was awful so I stayed away, I also tried the 2016 demo for the PC and again thought it wasn't to my liking.

What about you?

I'm stuck between 15 and 16 as my favourite. 16 is much better than 15 in most ways. 15 has better shooting, as I've seen you mention in your review, and the lower levels of pass assistance are less assisted. Shooting in 16 is very samey as you've mentioned, but it was worse in the demo. Every shot feels almost the same. The only difference is the height its hit at. Although, its slightly better in the full game than the demo. I think headers are better in 16 though. Out of the older versions I'd say 6.

I started playing Fifa from 10 onwards and stopped buying it after 13, after PES became stale like yourself and most other people. They where good at first with having 360 degree control, but the passing was too assisted. Fifa's balance between attack and defence is broken and still is as far as I'm concerned. I play alot offline with league seasons and the crap that the AI can do leaves you zero chance of doing anything when they start dribbling lightning quick and passing it instantly. Your defenders reactions have no chance of dealing with because they can't move as fast. Ridiculously unrealistic. Pes's balance in this regard is bang on. If you've good defensive positioning, you can do something about attacks when the AI starts going nuts because your defenders have similar reactions times.

Fifa 16 is actually pretty good and more realistic than PES 16 in a lot of ways. Not so good in others but is broken for me with that imbalance between your defenders and the AI's reactions with the ball. I probably would've bought it only for that. It'll never be fixed as its the same crap thats been there since I bought 10. The shooting is excellent in it though, and better than PES 15 I think. Alot more variety in the shots at different power levels.
 

EthanLionel

Registered User
Also to Ethan have you combinations of R2 and the R-stick with pressing in the L-stick? I think this is really where close-control in 15 shines. Add to this a quickly lined up shot and you will see some extremely devastating results.

What I do a lot is press R2 to quick stop, followed immediately by a tap of R-stick direction, and quickly press L-stick to the direction I wanted to quick burst. Is that what you mean?
 

matthewjohn85

Registered User
i think no debate is going to get away from the fact the game is broke more than last year , the offline is too fast and play doesn't feel realistic the whole game and online is same old same old sluggish slow laggy and unresponsive , if the game wasn't free for me i wouldn't go anywhere near it , soon rather play fifa 15 pro clubs or full manual career with sliders.
 

Parkinfed

Registered User
What I do a lot is press R2 to quick stop, followed immediately by a tap of R-stick direction, and quickly press L-stick to the direction I wanted to quick burst. Is that what you mean?

I used to leave the left stick and tap RB/R1 to make the ball stop. That way the player stops the ball and keeps facing the direction he was moving in already. I found that varying the pace of dribbling (3 speeds normal, sprint and R2 dribbling) was a sure shot way to keep the defender guessing and allowed for some great crossing opportunities. Just mentioning this because nobody else did.
 
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