Player condition arrows...

[jayjay1306]

How infuriating are the player condition arrows?

Enjoying the game immensely this year despite its many flaws. After last years poor excuse of a football game, PES 2011 is heading in the right direction for next gen football (finally).

The major let down in this game are the offline ML player condition arrows. There's no consistency or gradual change with them, it's just complete randomness that always go against you (especially in the big games). On the last PES you'd go from green to orange to red depending on player form i.e goals and assists and then backwards when playing poor. Form was the key. On this one it's just madness, green one match, grey the one after - no consideration to form. All the teams you play nearly have all their players on at least a green. Where's the fairness? It seems that the computer tries to do its upmost to make it difficult for you rather than using common sense.

Anyone else experiencing the same? Hopefully a patch can be released to fix this and also the cursor switching which is gash.

 

[OnlyProEvo]

When this does happen, I don't mind it as I find it a good challenge.

Plus it gives you the chance to play your youngsters, and fringe players.

Generally, I don't find it a problem.

 

[Stormrider]

Seems like an ML only thing. I don't get that when playing in league mode. The home team is always in awesome form, be that myself or the computer, and the away team will often have half their players on purple arrow. I like it that way. Makes away games more challenging and requires a different approach.

 

[S-D-P]

I like what they have done with the arrows in terms of home and away advantage, the problem is it does not work both ways and effects the human players team more than cpu which creates imbalance and frustration. I want the game to be hard due to a complicated passing and shooting system and clever AI, not becuase a team who have been in shit from have everybody on red just because they are playing me.

 

[LOL-ness]

I like what they have done with the arrows in terms of home and away advantage, the problem is it does not work both ways and effects the human players team more than cpu which creates imbalance and frustration. I want the game to be hard due to a complicated passing and shooting system and clever AI, not becuase a team who have been in shit from have everybody on red just because they are playing me.

IMO, the Home/away advantage was pretty well done in terms of condition arrows. You probably won't expect your players to be in their best condition anyway if they have to travel 500km to another stadium in a coach to play a match, right?

However, I do find that players who often score goals and assists are not as adversely affected by this home/away condition though, so it's not too problematic.

 

[S-D-P]

IMO, the Home/away advantage was pretty well done in terms of condition arrows. You probably won't expect your players to be in their best condition anyway if they have to travel 500km to another stadium in a coach to play a match, right?

However, I do find that players who often score goals and assists are not as adversely affected by this home/away condition though, so it's not too problematic.

I'm not talking about my players condition, I can work round this and its realistic what I mentioned is the cpu almost always having every player on top form . Its unrealistic and designed to work in favour of the cpu especially the weaker teams. Not a big issue but the laws should apply more consistently. The better your player plays the less likely he will be affected playing away from home and is form will be higher depending on other factors of course,this however not the case with cpu. Fatigue also effects the cpu only a minimal amount, hopefully in the future this side of the game will be more organic but its tough for konami to do this without making the game easy due to the AI being too easy to beat becuase they are out of form(a problem with 08 and 09)

Impressed with KONAMI's ideas but it needs a bit of refinement imo, more balance.

 

[LOL-ness]

I'm not talking about my players condition, I can work round this and its realistic what I mentioned is the cpu almost always having every player on top form . Its unrealistic and designed to work in favour of the cpu especially the weaker teams. Not a big issue but the laws should apply more consistently. The better your player plays the less likely he will be affected playing away from home and is form will be higher depending on other factors of course,this however not the case with cpu. Fatigue also effects the cpu only a minimal amount, hopefully in the future this side of the game will be more organic but its tough for konami to do this without making the game easy due to the AI being too easy to beat becuase they are out of form(a problem with 08 and 09)

Are you sure the AI always have their players on their top form?

I am asking this because I remember playing a match I played as Real Madrid against Barcelona in ML (RMA is home), and I was wondering why the AI decided to put Milito in the CB position instead of Puyol. I went to check their team out, and found that the AI has put all the good conditioned players (blue, green, some orange) into the starting 11 and benched Puyol because he has a purple condition arrow.

In other words, the AI is actually smarter this time by playing his best player in terms of condition rather than his best in terms of overall stats.

EDIT: Then again, I've also noticed odd things like AI away teams having very good condition, particularly in domestic cup matches. Perhaps this was done to simulate IRL cup matches (e.g. the FA Cup), where you usually see lower-tier teams doing very well because they have a less strenuous schedule, chance at being in the spotlight, general player motivation...etc.

 

[S-D-P]

Are you sure the AI always have their players on their top form?

I am asking this because I remember playing a match I played as Real Madrid against Barcelona in ML (RMA is home), and I was wondering why the AI decided to put Milito in the CB position instead of Puyol. I went to check their team out, and found that the AI has put all the good conditioned players (blue, green, some orange) into the starting 11 and benched Puyol because he has a purple condition arrow.

In other words, the AI is actually smarter this time by playing his best player in terms of condition rather than his best in terms of overall stats.

EDIT: Then again, I've also noticed odd things like AI away teams having very good condition, particularly in domestic cup matches. Perhaps this was done to simulate IRL cup matches (e.g. the FA Cup), where you usually see lower-tier teams doing very well because they have a less strenuous schedule, chance at being in the spotlight, general player motivation...etc.

Not all the time, mostly the weaker teams. I also check the squads and your right sometimes their better players are on the bench. To be honest I was moaning a few years ago when the AI used to play a weaker team against me so I'm nit picking a bit here, the AI shows lots of intelligence in terms of changing formation etc and playing its best possible team, at times it just feels a bit set up if that makes sense, I will play a team who have had poor results and their form is good(this of course happens in real life) However if this was my team they would most likely be green, blue arrows you know the rest, Happy with the system it just feels a bit exploitative sometimes.

 

[LOL-ness]

Not all the time, mostly the weaker teams. I also check the squads and your right sometimes their better players are on the bench. To be honest I was moaning a few years ago when the AI used to play a weaker team against me so I'm nit picking a bit here, the AI shows lots of intelligence in terms of changing formation etc and playing its best possible team, at times it just feels a bit set up if that makes sense, I will play a team who have had poor results and their form is good(this of course happens in real life) However if this was my team they would most likely be green, blue arrows you know the rest, Happy with the system it just feels a bit exploitative sometimes.

Yeah, it does feel exploitative at times, especially at domestic cups. I have been held to a draw before in Copa del Rey by a weak away Getafe against my home Real Madrid before, so I know what you mean. I shudder to think what would've happened if I were playing the FA cup (no 2 legged matches).

 

[Stormrider]

Yeah, it does feel exploitative at times, especially at domestic cups. I have been held to a draw before in Copa del Rey by a weak away Getafe against my home Real Madrid before, so I know what you mean. I shudder to think what would've happened if I were playing the FA cup (no 2 legged matches).

At least you got a draw hehe. They weren't so fortunate last year, losing to a 2nd division or lower team in reality despite fielding a near full strength side. That's what I love about Pes. We're all expected to completely dismantle (insert shitty team here) but things don't always go according to plan. You don't get this in Fifa, where fielding your starting 11 requires practically no thought and the only real factor is injury.

 

[Oneironaut]

Sorry if I'm being off-topic, but the home vs away arrow differences apply to exhibition (player vs player) mode too?

 

[asl10]

Also i would like to point out , why the form of some players for example Messi, its 4 out of 10? If you think about it , last year messi scored over 50 goals and had major contribution for his team. In other words, he was on fire! Why in PES 2011 which reflects the the player's form from the previous season have Messi and other good players with low form stats? So with this form for example, messi is in good form 4 times out of ten ! I dont think that it reflects reality...........

 

[Cesc Fabregas]

firstly it's out of 8. second, it's about his overall consistency. and while i do agree that messi is at least a 6 it doesn't only depend on that. for consistent players in real life that deserve a full 8 out of 8, see Xavi and maybe Javier Zanetti. the kind of players that very rarely have bad games.

 

[jayjay1306]

When this does happen, I don't mind it as I find it a good challenge.

Plus it gives you the chance to play your youngsters, and fringe players.

Generally, I don't find it a problem.

Don't think you're getting my point though. It's not about playing youngsters or fringe players, it's about realism and consistency. Reviere, my best striker has 12 in 12 this season, in real life, in terms of PES arrows he'd be on an orange or a red arrow until he started having a couple of bad games but this doesn't apply to PES. It's totally ridiculous that you can have a red arrow one game and then a grey the one after with no process or form taken into account yet this does not apply to the CPU.

Surely an easy fix?

 

[ads]

Having only had the game 24 hours I haven't delved into ML yet but I think this could be a good thing.

Imagine a player has a top condition arrow (not sure of the colour, sorry) and he plays a blinder, then the next game he has the same arrow, plays a blinder again and this happens for 20-25 games on the bounce. Is that realistic? I'm not sure it is.

How often, in real life, do we see a player scoring a hat trick in one game and then another two in his next? It doesn't happen very often at all.

 

[Stormrider]

Also i would like to point out , why the form of some players for example Messi, its 4 out of 10? If you think about it , last year messi scored over 50 goals and had major contribution for his team. In other words, he was on fire! Why in PES 2011 which reflects the the player's form from the previous season have Messi and other good players with low form stats? So with this form for example, messi is in good form 4 times out of ten ! I dont think that it reflects reality...........

Messi gets his fair share of non factor games in reality so around the 4-5 rating sounds fair. The thing with Messi is that he's so fuckin good he doesn't need to be in top form to rip shit . On blue arrow he is still better than almost every single player in the game and on purple he's still well above average. If it helps any, I have the US version of Pes and it still says condition rating instead of form rating. When you look at it that way it makes a lot more sense because Messi is not as well conditioned as others.

Having only had the game 24 hours I haven't delved into ML yet but I think this could be a good thing.

Imagine a player has a top condition arrow (not sure of the colour, sorry) and he plays a blinder, then the next game he has the same arrow, plays a blinder again and this happens for 20-25 games on the bounce. Is that realistic? I'm not sure it is.

How often, in real life, do we see a player scoring a hat trick in one game and then another two in his next? It doesn't happen very often at all.

Bingo. Finally someone else who really understands the situation. There would be no fun in that as any decent Pes player would be able to keep most of their players on top form all season long. The thing that many people don't understand is that the decent players on blue or purple arrow are still very playable and often times will do a good job because player cards are not affected. I don't pay too much attention to the arrows if they're good players. Sometimes he performs better on purple than he did on red :laugh:

There are so many things in reality that can fuck with a player's form other than football reasons which are out of the control of the player hands. Things like family issues, media, drinking problems lol. The list goes on and on. Just use your imagination next time you see a purple arrow. Maybe he just found out some guy was banging his wife. I know I wouldn't be able to play well in that situation :laugh:

 

[jayjay1306]

Still don't think you understand my point. I'm not saying keep them green or above for 20-25 games, I'm saying there needs to be a balance in the game and not to make random choices (that tend to be against you).

It's quite common for top players to have a run of 10-15 games playing a good level and scoring frequently and being consistent. Rooney last season scored 24 goals in 23 games on his goal scoring run. I can't remember too many times in that run where he looked sluggish and played badly or his main attribute suffer. Surely you can see it is a flaw in this seasons PES in that there's clear bias towards your team?

Look at the scout reports before you play the opposition. Everyone of their team bar one or two are more than green. That is hardly the case for myself. The biggest case I'd seen was in the Champions League final. I'd had a really good season and nearly all my team had purple and grey arrows. No logic, no sense just the CPU trying to get a head start.