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Players don't respond = broken game

fatehasfans

Registered User
This is what everybody wants, but as I said in my previous post yesterday, it isn't easy, and perhaps even impossible. And once more, I reckon the attemp KONAMI made this year isn't that bad. There have always been scripting, and there will always be.

I understand that and I also understand what you said earlier. It's not easy to make a birthday cake for 1 million people. However, when you've had 20+ years at it.

Also, you have no problem with the game (well you do but you still like it, or play it, I find this a little contradictory and perhaps slightly masochistic - for if you hate something but continue doing it isn't that? Oh nvm).

Point being, we're going backwards in terms of control, we should be given MORE control, not less - it was close in PES 13 but reduced slightly in 14 but the fact is these CORE problems remain inherent in all of the titles within the franchise and that's my problem - in fact this is the worst yet.

Lastly, I don't care about minor issues, all games have them but to be frank your comment...
I know it is broken and is shit and non responsive and broken and broken and broken, but I like it.
...could be applied to every mediocre game out there. I mean what's stopping you from playing Emlyn Hughes Int. Soccer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEmVYsgsxi0)? For me, this view doesn't really stand up but if you like it, great, but this would suggest that your expectations are quite a bit lower than mine. Which also begs the question, if you don't have a problem with the game why are you here?

No offence.
 

rebelinho

Moderator
I find this a little contradictory and perhaps slightly masochistic - for if you hate something but continue doing it isn't that? Oh nvm).

I don't hate the game, I dislike certain aspects of the game. And if you like it can consider this an addiction (not a bad one, although some people say every addiction is dangerous).

Point being, we're going backwards in terms of control, we should be given MORE control, not less - it was close in PES 13 but reduced slightly in 14 but the fact it these CORE problems remains inherent in all of the titles within the franchise and that's my problem - in fact this is the worst yet.

No, this is not the worst yet (PES2014 was so bad it physically hurt). And I suppose getting better animations, more realistic movements, graphics, etc, came with the cost of responsiveness. Whether this is the correct path for the series or not is up to each one of us, as always.

If you like it, great, but this would suggest that your expectations are quite a bit lower than mine. Which also begs the question, if you don't have a problem with the game why are you here?

No offence.

Not taken.

I've learn a few years ago that having high expectations never really brings anything good when it's anybody but you doing the job. If you are dependant of the skill of others to get shit done never expect wonders. But if you are the one doing it always aim for the highest standards possible (avoid getting comfortable with your current situations, expect more and improve, all that "self improvement" shit). This said, in the same way I always face a drinking night with my mates as something "meh", that turns out to be "fan-fuckin-tastic" exactly because it surpassed my expectations, I expect a certain amount of quality from the upcoming PES games, which is "being better than PES2011". That was the PES game I considered more average. And PES2015, for me, sure is better.

At last: why am I here? Why are you here? If you don't like the game why do you bother coming to a forum about it complaining? Do you send weekly emails to Bieber saying he's the brownest shit ever? Why do I even try discussing this with you, instead of playing the game I supposedly like? Because the human race is made to argue (not an angry argument, more like a philosophical approach to the question) and discuss what others have in different regard. We are rational animals, and just can't bear having someone disagree with us, and are tempted to make them see as they should. Biggest example: Inquisition.

But we are deviating fro the topic. The finish my participation here: "PES2016 will be the game! I'm sure of it!"

PS: I do play a fuckin old "soccer" game: http://www.radicalplay.com/socca/
 
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Rat Monkey

Registered User
[MENTION=227658]fatehasfans[/MENTION]

Points 1 to 3 I already answered before

1. I agreed the path is linear, but there is so much more to the game in passing that is realistic, i.e. having to create and exploit space by running into it or passing and pull defenders out of position, knowing when to pass the ball when its on or not. Being able to curl the ball shouldn't be able to remove this part of the game. You don't see this part of the game which is obvious from your video. So you see the pathing doesn't ruin it for me, I've other things I can get out of this game, you don't. You can't seem to get these parts or that other people look for different things in the game. I'm not limited to linear pathing as there are other realistic things you should have to do to.

2. Answered most of this aswell. The AI has problems but no where near as bad as you make out. There was an example in the video in terms of speed with Ozil being caught easily. He had no energy but the player chasing him did. I notice most of what you say from time to time but because I get other things you don't(I'll mention these in a later post, have mentioned some already) out of the game that work 9 times out of 10 it doesn't break the game overall for me. Cursor change can be pretty bad at times, though.

3. Answered this again. I don't use tricks, besides the ones with holding r stick one way then l stick the other. Works fine, but I even use that rarely. Double tap is dodgy when at normal speed because each touch is so close to each other and it reads double tap only between each touch. You need to be snappy with it, but it does need to be easier and is dodgy at this speed. When sprinting, double tap is easy as hell as each touch is longer so you've more time. Your view on Basic shooting is utter rubbish. VERY CONSISTENT. Passing is also VERY CONSISTENT. Your issues are your own with this and I don't care what you say, not withstanding the rare bad accuracy which nine times out of ten is my bad accuracy. Take a look again at the image I had for beating napoli 10-1. 10 goals out of 13 shots, 87% pass accuracy.

I'll get onto the rest of your post later. I don't have the time.
 

Rat Monkey

Registered User
[MENTION=227658]fatehasfans[/MENTION]

I get plenty of things I want to do in this game, and I disagree that linear passing bottlenecks the whole thing. I've mentioned most like exploiting space(which opens up huge options for everything else), nice quick passing when its available, having to be creative to pull defenders out of position for different types of passes and setting up shots, using close control to get close to defenders before outwitting them with a change of direction and burst of speed(dribbling is largely good and well done), nice variety of shots like delicate ones into the corner, hard low shots outside the box, blasts from outside the box or volleys from outside the box, the crossing is really good, long balls up field to a big attacker to nod on to other attackers, knowing when to make a pass or what shot is most effective in a situation. There are more things than that which I can do and am in control of whether you think so or not. If you find all that limiting, then I think your limiting yourself. As you can see I get alot out of it.

I know your going to come back with all thats not responsive, but I've already gave responses to those.

There are obviously problems with the game like the cursor change being the biggest, online is mostly a mess, double tap when in normal dribble is too anal to pull off and should be easier, the auto tackle when holding A should be removed and pressing A should only do a tackle. Momentum, while I like what its trying to do, is over done with making players to hard to push off the ball or tackle(Because of the auto tackle. Its wants great positioning which you can't properly get when the AI goes into pressure mode twisting and turning, although tapping A instead of holding does work better, like it was manual but not good enough.) Those are the main things I find wrong with it. The rest you mentioned happen very rarely for me but are irritating when they happen like players stop for a split second, etc. As I said before, there is nothing at all wrong with passing and basic shooting - very responsive and accurate to what I'm trying to do.
 

fatehasfans

Registered User
At last: why am I here? Why are you here? If you don't like the game why do you bother coming to a forum about it complaining?

I think you misunderstood me, I meant why are you here, in this thread , if you have no problems with the game?

...and Rat Monkey you seem to miss my point(s) entirely, perhaps you simply don't see the problems I see so I think we'll leave it there, seems PES 15 is like Marmite you think its great while I think it stinks.

Good luck!
 

Rat Monkey

Registered User
...and Rat Monkey you seem to miss my point(s) entirely

Good luck!

Back at ya!!!

EDIT: I don't think the problems exist to the extent you do or don't even agree with some of what you say. You obviously don't see things like I do either. We are convinced each other are blind about alot of things. Good Luck!
 

fatehasfans

Registered User
Before I go...

I disagree that linear passing bottlenecks the whole thing. I've mentioned most like exploiting space(which opens up huge options for everything else), nice quick passing when its available, having to be creative to pull defenders out of position for different types of passes and setting up shots, using close control to get close to defenders before outwitting them with a change of direction and burst of speed(dribbling is largely good and well done), nice variety of shots like delicate ones into the corner, hard low shots outside the box, blasts from outside the box or volleys from outside the box, the crossing is really good, long balls up field to a big attacker to nod on to other attackers, knowing when to make a pass or what shot is most effective in a situation. There are more things than that which I can do and am in control of whether you think so or not.

Whatever the problems with the game that we agree to disagree on, it's this I sorely disagree with and can't let lie without discussion.

You paint a very attractive picture; however the reality of the game is a lot different. I'm not sure what difficulty you play on but this stuff simply doesn't happen.

1). "exploiting space....pulling defenders out of position"?

In this game you can only exploit space by waiting for your off-the-ball player to make a run or by doing one-twos (triangle spam) and the players who make those runs will nearly always be in line of sight and this not only limits the style of play invariably but also helps kill off any kind of long-direct-play-style, for example 20 years on (with perhaps the exception of PES 13 and even then that was just linear through-balls dropping in front, I'm talking sweeping/swerving spray-type crosses with either none or plenty of swerve meaning you can be dangerous from anywhere on the pitch given the skill and creativity) and we still can't deliver long-direct-balls into space (in front of the frontmen) from deep within our own defence, in fact you have no influence over frontmen from a defensive viewpoint so that element of the game is utterly non-existent.

2). "using close control to get close to defenders before outwitting them with a change of direction and burst of speed"---

Yes, when it actually works. Burst of pace is so inconsistent that getting away from players with that 'burst of pace' only works when it wants, and the "close control" is also very inconsistent for example:

When facing Right if you were to press Top-Right or Top-right (using the left stick - this also works with pressing straight Up or Down and then Right), then quickly change direction to Right again (in other words change direction twice) and press Run/Sprint button (at the same time) your player will roll the ball with one foot (while changing direction) then quickly switchback direction using his other foot (as you press Right again) while Sprinting away.

The reality is this only works when it wants so is very circumstantial and it's like that for most of the turns, tricks, and shoulder drops, feints etc etc. Furthermore, for the most part the computer will simply standoff, allowing you to attempt what you like then when your player has finished the trick/feint/dupe it simply takes the ball off you.


3). "...nice variety of shots like delicate ones into the corner, hard low shots outside the box, blasts from outside the box or volleys from outside the box..."

Nah, another pretty picture. Like I said earlier the shooting is extremely limited - yes you can delicate shot to the corner using R2 over and over and over ...and over - picture perfect, in fact its probably the only consistent thing in the game. Yes you can hit low shots from outside the box (with Advanced you simply hold back, I'm not sure what it is with Basic because after testing I found holding back or forward using little or a lot of power can all result in low shots - very random) so when using Advanced and hitting those low shots from outside the box there are usually a handful of shot-outcomes that feel like scripted cut-scenes - i.e. the same event again and again - no not linear at all!
As far as volleys go, or anything even more extravagant (I've yet to do an overhead kick (the 'lock-on' timing mechanic of volleys, headers etc means you are extremely limited to whether the player will 'lock on' to the pass dependant on whether you held the button early enough - nah this isn't very expressive, it's limiting/linear. As far as blasts outside the box go, I can score these all day, and this is where the picture becomes perfect for I can hit the top corner nearly every time, but you know what it becomes quite repetitive, alongside the low shot event outcomes the long shot 'cut-scenes' feel samey too!

"Good long ball up the field to my big attacker" -----

Did you take this from a Japanese PES15 instruction booklet? For this sounds like the kind of fantastical guff they use to fill those books that we all know (after experience) in reality doesn't actually work. I mean sure, sending medium range crosses from the wing to your 'big attacker' in the middle to nod on usually work, but this is where the dream ends. For unless you are playing 'piggy in the middle', your long balls are largely useless - oh you can do big sweeping cross field balls around your deep defensive and defensive midfield area though sadly for the most part these are purely aesthetic, they serve no purpose and are again very linear. If you are talking about sending deep crosses/ball up from your own defence to space in front of your 'big attackers' it's a no, how do they say in it in the Bronx? That shit don't work here.

"Knowing when to make a pass or what shot is most effective in a situation" ---

Oh you mean knowing whether to pick one of the limited crosses, continue with your triangle spam (while waiting for a support player to make a run), or go with one of the 'cut-scene' shot outcomes? The dynamism is simply mind-blowing.

"There are more things than that which I can do and am in control of whether you think so or not" ---

I'm sure there are but I bet it involves one, or a combination, of the above.

As Jeremy Bentham once said ---

"Nonsense on stilts"

Do me a favour, I want to be convinced, I want to believe but I need to see (I feel so like Thomas the Apostle) all these dreams in action so please make a video, first showing what difficulty you put it on, then showing all those lovely pictures you paint. Because in short I bet it boils down to you largely making quick short passes looking either for a through ball deep in their half, sending a runner ahead looking for a through ball, or as you mentioned earlier sending in medium crosses to your 'big attacker' to nod on (yawn) - Also, I am dying to see these changes of direction and bursts of pace that completely "outwit" the defence not to mention the fantastic plethora of shots/volleys that will rain down upon their goal (my money is on those being mainly top-corner shots or low drives either saved or just wide - with the odd randomized outcome, i.e. blazed way over or off the post, thrown in for good measure).

You show me anything other than what I expect/know will happen (see above) and I will be truly converted. Until then ...baloney

Good Luck!
 

Parkinfed

Registered User
Should there not be something of an upper limit on the amount of non sense that can be put in 1 single post? This discussion has had a few. Let me put this straight, both of you are never ever going to make the other see your point of view (no not that PoV). So guys, please
QUIT IT!
 

Rat Monkey

Registered User
1. Its not the only way, your wrong here. Actually sprinting into space at the right angle and exploiting gaps in front of you and forces/pulls defenders out of position, leaving players free and gaps in dehind. I do this quite a lot. I also use one two's, I don't see whats wrong with this. Spam? I think your being a little up yourself here. Just because you can do it doesn't mean it can be pulled off all the time with a successful return pass, and its a legitimate tactic.

Yeah, no swerve on the ball is limiting, I get your point here and agree. Certainly more freedom and expression can be afforded in this regard, but it doesn't concern me at the moment and there are other things that are more important to me that I want to see changed. Nevertheless, you make a valid point about linear pathing. I'd like you to explain the long balls over defense in front of players a bit better. Does lob through ball not cover this or what? What control of front men are you talking about when your controlling a defender? Its not clear what you mean, maybe its got something to do with swerve?

2. You use close control a little different than me. I get close as possible to the defender, its the only realistic way to beat defenders. I use the tiny touches of close control to achieve this without losing the ball, although its still a risk getting that close as you need to be quick to use a tackle. Then I change direction and give a burst of speed. Simple idea, but this way is all I want in this scenario. Tricks are largely a gimic for me. Defenders stand off you because they don't want to over commit when your in close control as you'll beat them easy. You can't beat the defenders either unless your close to them. So it becomes a game of wits to get close enough without losing the ball and being able to outwit them. Double tap is dodgy, but does mostly work when you press it really quickly and snappy(it can be a chore and needs to be easier), but you don't need it all the time to beat a defender when that close to them. Just pressing sprint for a speed burst works too. When your doing your tricks you don't sound like your close enough, and don't expect them to work all the time due to the very fact of how close you have to get to a defender. Your in his range to outwit you and tackle you. You go on alot about tricks. There are moot point as I don't really use them. Besides the type what I wrote before which are quite effective but rarely use. Close control works the way I want it(Not entirely but thats a completely different issue). If you want to be fancy then thats your prerogative.

3. You can actually apply a small little bit of curl to shots, by pressing the stick in the direction you want afterwards but its marginal. I'm presuming the lack of full control on swerve is what is making it linear for you? Yes, the pathing is quite linear, but there still is a variety of shots. Low, medium, to high with varying powers at any part of the goal. Basic shooting is very consistent with low hard shots. It's in roughly the mid-low to middle part of the powerbar. I constantly pull them off. Your wrong. You don't hold back either, thats just advanced. That will make you turn backwards on basic.

Volleys are prominent enough, but I do have issue with positioning and being able to pull off overhead kicks. You can't change what type shot you want, .i.e. header or bicycle kick and can't move your player when the balls in the air, besides holding super cancel which is a chore. This is where Fifa is good. There are still a variety of shots there even if you can't fully control swerve or have a button to attempt a bicycle or a header. Nothing wrong with wanting these, but I disagree variety is linear, just not as expansive as you want to even get an ounce of enjoyment.

You said you tested the shooting quite extentively and no shots consistently went where you wanted. What has changed? Good for you if you can hit the corner each time with a shot. Your better than me. Although, you've contradicted yourself so I think you may have made this up to discredit my points.

If you put the ball in the corner, I hardly think its scripted. Keepers will find it hard to save all day.

Long balls. I was talking about sending long balls up from my defense to a tall attacker to head down to a free player to start an attack. Yes, it works. So they do serve a purpose. Spreading the ball around also has a purpose, more space on the far side.

Your opinion of what i actually do, is obnoxiously simplistic. You hardly expect me to go into every little detail. Thats just tedious. The game has limitations, wholly agree and have ways myself that could make it more free, but there is plenty of variety of whats in there. Is swerve actually all you want? Your very vague at the best of times besides swerve, and far less of the patronising sarcasm because believe me it does not suit you in the slightest. It should be very simple to describe exactly what you want!

EDIT: Let me be clear here. What do you want besides everything thats been mentioned including swerve, i.e. don't mention pass, shot accuracy, tricks and such.
 

Rat Monkey

Registered User
Should there not be something of an upper limit on the amount of non sense that can be put in 1 single post? This discussion has had a few. Let me put this straight, both of you are never ever going to make the other see your point of view (no not that PoV). So guys, please
QUIT IT!

Theres fuck all else discussion going on here, so fuck it!
 

fatehasfans

Registered User
Theres fuck all else discussion going on here, so fuck it!

Same mate, tbh I love bits of 15 and that's why it pisses me off so much. It has amazing potential but the scripting just kills it for me, it's just not consistent or free-flowing enough. Football, although at times technical and patient can also be fast and direct and I feel 15 really lacks in the latter area. While PES 14 offers me the directness of 13 with a little bit of the patience of 15 but it doesn't have some of the mechanics of 15 which make 15 unique. If I'm honest I was hoping 15 would have had more of 14 in it but improved. But for those who don't like 14 I'm not talking about the official patched version for that's rubbish - 14 is only good if you are prepared to put a little work into modding it to chip away the bad parts, but I think that boat has sailed for a lot of people, and I guess rightly so for why should people have to go out of their way to 'fix' a game when the developers should be doing this anyway?

You can understand why PESedit stopped making patches, I mean why should they clean up Konami's mess every time? It almost feels as though Konami are now relying on the community to fix their games for it's evident that over the last few years Konami have released their games half-finished, with bits missing or full of bugs/glitches and this simply isn't acceptable, even though it seems to be the norm now.

Anyways back to the point....

this is what I miss in 15 --

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHhf...ature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjwRAtKZOJo


Speed, ease of control/consistency and directness, it's just so much more fun, I can do what I want and it works and the mistakes are all mine.
 

djikicigo

New Member
hi guys,
before the latest update the online mode works good, and i enjoy to play the game (ok it has some lags, but it's tolerable)
after the last update?
:crymore:
2/5 online maches finish cause my or the opponent's player don't respond.
The epilogue? from AAA rating i become C, banned from competitions and lists and destroy all my elan in play this game
fuck u konami :p
 

JDearz

Registered User
I really enjoyed pes10 and pes12 and i was really good at these, and felt it was fast and smooth.

This game, im rating 700+ odd division 6ish. But i dont feel good what so ever

Things I hate about this game

1)Sometimes you can not switch to the desired player, e.g a typical through ball beats my controlled player but the comp player could make it, i try to switch to him but it doesnt work...opponent gets it and scores.

2)Defending pressure is crap, if a striker is in front, literally the only way is slide tackle and red card. you can not get round them or knock them off the ball.

3)taclking in general is pretty rubbish, i often have games when the ball just bumbles around everyones feet.

4) generally feels sluggish as someone has sad they have obviously tried to imitate fifa here.

If they didnt take down the pes servers every two years, id still be playing pes2012
 
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