For the best lawn care in cedar park, please visit our sponsor at lawn service cedar park They are a local lawn care and landscaping company that provide services in such as lawn care, lawn mowing, weeding, and landscape maintenance in Cedar Park, Austin, Round Rock, and Leander area. They are located at:

Lawn Care Service of Cedar Park 100 E Whitestone Blvd Ste 148, #166 Cedar Park, TX 78613 (512) 595-0884

Pre-programmed handicapped and sabotaging AI?

princo45

Registered User
In sport games, in order to make the game APPEAR more challenging to the player. I wonder if scripts or micro-events have been implemented in the game mechanics so that:

1/ The user-controlled AI could be sabotaged at will under certain crucial circumstances (which under the prediction/calculation of the machine, the player surely have had a chance to score or when there is a need to be equalized by CPU-controlled team). Sabotage could be under the forms of slow response, delay or ignore user input, null situational awareness, passing error, abandon pursuit and marking.

2/ Choreographed formation event in which the user-controlled team voluntarily opens up like Red sea under some trigger for the CPU to have an ideal through ball or your defender always get tugged behind the opponent strikers or defender run (or pushed by the game engine) out of the path of the striker which leads to the certain goal, regardless of input or dexterity or determination of the player (the feeling of helplessness You often feel when You know the opponent is going to score no matter what, there is no coincidental or accidental event on the match, all has been synchronized and timed perfectly by the programmer. That's why in-game you always know ahead a certain event happen but helpless to prevent or remedy it, because the game does not let You).

3/ Choreographed ball movement, passing speed and ball physics behavior that could benefit the CPU-controlled team (the phenomenon in which: the ball suddenly slows down to wait for or "magnetized" to the "right" player's foot, the ball repeatedly and miraculously bounced back to the opponent's foot or his teammates' feet at every of your single successful tackle, your opponent's desperate clearance at most urgent moment always miraculously and precisely landed at his striker's foot for a successful counter-attack or break (often cleverly synchronized with your defenders running out of marking positions), or ball trajectory is pre-determined regardless of the skill of the player to hit the cross bar countless of times in a match).

4/ Ball control skill or tackling skill of the player is not always honored by the physics simulation engine that is supposed to be fair and impartial (the ball repeatedly and miraculously bounced back to the opponent's foot or his teammates' feet at every of your single successful tackle). Ball bouncing and collision physics behavior might be also influenced by other scriptings.

All the buzzwords like realistic ball physic engine, realistic simulation system may be just a smoke-screen, a masquerade for the cunning cheating scripting mechanism behind the scene to confuse the players further when they were being dealt with unfairly by the cheap scripting tricks. In every first touch, the ball bouncing off the player feet always steered into the path of a conveniently placed nearby opponent, the loose ball always heeded in its path snapped or locked into the cpu opponents. Every header or cross always fall into opponents' position.

There may be also insidious pre-programmed interference with your input by injecting "noise-value" in the x,y,z coordinates reading of your controller sensor by the game engine, rendering it sluggish, inaccurate and erroneous at will, in some extreme cases, the game engine is instructed to ignore your input altogether.

Almost after every of your first touch the ball will steer itself stubbornly into a nearby cpu opponent feet, you have to try to steer it back under your control. You often find yourself struggle, fighting with the game controller just to execute a simple movement or an evasive action.

With this hidden, "deniable", insidious and "invisible" game mechanics, the player always will have the feeling that he has no real control of the AI player or the game itself. It leads to a feeling of frustration when things do not happen on a consistent or logical basis. The player has the feeling of just being a passive spectator of a pre-choreographed game. The whole game match is nothing but a masochistic self-inflicted frustrating pain and more of a futile Sisyphean chores than an exciting, rewarding and enjoyable experience.

The analogy is like You play a game of chess whereby the rule is unilaterally decided on the fly by your opponent and he could move your chess piece at any time at will. You can't win, You might have been railroaded to lose by mathematical certainty of the dirty coding while believing it was your limited skills or your fault, then they would insult you in the commentaries:
"Where is the defense?" (after having executed the script for your own AI defenders to become zombiefied, disoriented, dazed for a long time after beinng tackled or pushed way then suddenly unmark/run away from the striker or give way to them like the parting Red sea then run clumsily behind the cpu striker like a herd of birds.)

The naive and angry player is in fact being played by the cunning and sadistic game programmer(s)/designer(s).
 

princo45

Registered User
Pre-programmed Unfair Advantage (Cheap and Cheating)

Forumer "ZeroTheHero" at evo-web has stated very succinctly and concisely the pre-programmed advantage the cpu players have over human controlled AI:

1/ "The AI are too aggressive on the ball carrier. This would be fine if the human players were not so sluggish. The AI also seem to have a very short acceleration time compared to human players. Inertia doesn't seem to affect them much and human player direction changes are often reacted upon by the AI before the actual movement occurs which creates really silly situations. It also makes AI defenders seem somewhat like mind readers beyond what is reasonable even by the best defenders in the world". (ZeroTheHero)

The game engine reads the data from player's game controller and executes code to mirror player's movement (the annoying incessant hounding) to intercept him or counter his attempt. In term of processing power of CPU nowadays, it could be milli-second with absolute mathematical accuracy. Human reaction is no match.

Reasonable delay in judgement and reaction speed of cpu players must be implemented to mimic human neural system rate of analysing the situation and reaction/counter-reaction.
Cpu players must also be programmed to make mistakes and errors (there should not be situations when every clearance by cpu defender with his back to his striker teammate lands exactly and accurately on the feet of said teammate for a counter-attack or break).

There should be no cheat of cpu reading controller data nor should there be delay of player controlled AI reaction by poorly-synch animation. Player must have a sporting chance to take evasive action before dispossession trigger kick in. Now it seems they just barely approached you and bam! You are dispossessed! The trigger and animation of dispossession kicks in too fast, even before player started to react.

This game reminds me of FIFA 12 when the cpu has the pre-programmed advantage over You in reaction, passing, acceleration and shooting speed. The level of frustration on players is nearly identical to this game.

When cpu has faster acceleration speed than you, all loose ball will belong to them, they can intercept your pass at will, and their defense ability is increased ten-folds (You wonder why You have no time on the ball, they approached You with lightning speed and barged into You. Estimation of safe distance between You and cpu player is an illusion in this game, there is no safe distance, they could teleport and warp time to get to You or to intercept your pass). On top of that Cpu always intercept your pass, because your passing speed has been reduced therefore sabotaged by the scripting. They leave You no chance.

In FIFA 12,when You used the slider in CPU customization to adjust their speed and acceleration. The cpu suddenly become so easy to conquer (the cpu suddenly play a lot like You before the speed adjustment -lethargic, clumsy and sluggish).


2/ "There are hardly any situations where defenders try to contain a human ball carrier, they just barge into a physical duel that they usually win without breaking sweat. This makes stopping nearly futile and makes the matches too intense and rushed because there's hardly room for a breather. If you try to pass the ball between the defenders, the AI striker will often haunt you and catch your defenders having a poor touch and using unreasonably long time to recover control."(ZeroTheHero)

Sometimes poor touch from your controlled AIs have nothing to do with physics simulation or your skill and dexterity level context, because it followed a "rubberbanding" scripted game mechanics (many FIFA players call it Momentum theory) synchronized and choreographed with CPU to dispossess You and then carry on a counter-attack and it is certain that they will score after your player's sudden "unnatural" poor touch or an-out-of-character "warped" ball trajectory.

Cpu often scored after a "manufactured" stuff-up by your players or "pre-programmed inconsistent behaviour of the ball which has its own AI", it has nothing to do with your skills, (when you have built up a passing skill to be very consistent, the game will turn to "sabotage trick" to increase its cpu players' chance to score).

This also happens a lot with unnatural ball physics behaviour, as if the ball has the mind of its own to choose whose feet it may be "magnetized" or attached to or whether it will roll a few inches further to avoid one's feet or to stray off one's intercepting path (cpu's crazy or impossible through balls). The ball could speed up suddenly to reach your opponent's feet or to slow down to wait for him or it could do so to avoid You, almost every tackle on the touch line by you will result in the ball is out of play, when Cpu tackled You, the ball stopped right at the touch line to keep it into possession by your CPU opponent.

3/ "The AI doesn't seem to see any adverse effects on stamina as a result of this extremely high pressure over the course of 90+ minutes. A human player with the same strategy will see his team utterly knackered at 45-55 minutes".(ZeroTheHero)

4/ "Poor players in the hands of AI doesn't seem any hampered by low technical skills or any other abilities for that matter. AI Mertesacker still outruns the likes of human controlled Lennon and AI Lahm will utterly destroy human controlled Ibrahimovich with a shoulder tackle 9/10 times".(ZeroTheHero)

CONCLUSION:

All of this superiority of cpu players over your controlled players who were "deliberately"-programmed-to-be-lethargic-zombiefied-and-handicapped, proves to be an unfair advantage pursued too aggressively by gameplay programmers and designers. The game has become a frustrating chores where player has little input and control. These cheap and cheating gameplay mechanics might make the game LOOK more intensive and cpu APPEAR to be smarter, but for all the wrong reasons.
 

superpes

Registered User
and yet I can beat barca on superstar 5:1 with club olimpo (argentina) which does not have a player over 80.
 

PEStyles

Registered User
Nearly everything you said there made sense because i even see all the manufactured equalizers and gameplay manipulation.

I still win in the though lol :wenger: Rep added.
 

pes121212

Registered User
All your complaints seems to stem from the inability to learn the new way of defending. For me this is the best PES since 2010.
 

princo45

Registered User
All your complaints seems to stem from the inability to learn the new way of defending. For me this is the best PES since 2010.

You are right, as I notice there seem to be two groups of PES 2014 players.

1/ Group of people like mine, we never seem to enjoy the game, it has become more of a chores to us than an exciting or rewarding experience.

2/ Group of a minority of players who seem to enjoy it so much that they declare that this is the best PES ever.

Maybe the mentality thing. I have tried my best to enjoy the game with different mindset, but ending up so angry after a few matches.

Can I say that the game suits a certain personality profiles, and infuriating others?

Could You please tell us your playing experience and some guidance to steer us into the right path to enjoy the game?
 

pes121212

Registered User
You are right, as I notice there seem to be two groups of PES 2014 players.

1/ Group of people like mine, we never seem to enjoy the game, it has become more of a chores to us than an exciting or rewarding experience.

2/ Group of a minority of players who seem to enjoy it so much that they declare that this is the best PES ever.

Maybe the mentality thing. I have tried my best to enjoy the game with different mindset, but ending up so angry after a few matches.

Can I say that the game suits a certain personality profiles, and infuriating others?

Could You please tell us your playing experience and some guidance to steer us into the right path to enjoy the game?

In short, pass to advance and relaxed attitude in the box will be more rewarding. Try to master one or two new things that suite you such as making off the ball players forward run.
 

tosheus

Registered User
I could type a thousand words to explain that it's just not that good.. People make do, for some people it's not how good it is, but they have to play the newest version.. Even if it's not too hot. They released it early to get it out before fifa, it wasn't ready, now they're playing catch up... They don't have enough experience or knowledge about the new fox engine to do this, so the game is riddled with faults.. RIP PES... The end is upon us....
 

Munster

Registered User
and yet I can beat barca on superstar 5:1 with club olimpo (argentina) which does not have a player over 80.

Can you beat them like this in a friendly match or in a ML or CL-campagne? Because as far as I noticed friendly matches are much easier than matches in a CL or ML campagne because their is no home advantage, scripted AI advantage etc.. In a friendly match I'm also able to beat several strong teams but in ML or CL I get hammered.
 

superpes

Registered User
[MENTION=219940]Munster[/MENTION] :Won champions league with atl.madrid in a first try , won copa libertadores with arsenal in a first try , argentina primera with Quilmes , premier league with West Ham, but I agree it is much harder when you play these modes.
My point is that scripting was always there in any football game but it is not dramatic as the people say, I find human opponents much more aggressive on ball carrier than a computer , AI will often contain when you are facing goal and going in a slow pace , so you will have plenty of time to pass the ball around if you don't use sprint button.
 

Ajescent

Registered User
Getting tired of constantly hitting the crossbar with every on target shot.

I make sure to not fill the power bar to not even a 3rd.

Open goal, no pressure but yet the player still hits the crossbar or completely misses. and no my thing isn't on manual, I switch between basic and advanced depending on which is annoying me at the time.
 

Ajescent

Registered User
I agree, some of the scripting in this game is weak.
Usually when a keeper sees a loose ball, he is all over it like a rash. I've had a few incidents where my keeper chooses to "fail" at trapping the ball, only to get conveniently get tackled by an attacker, immediately after I take the lead.

This happens often when I take a lead, something magically happens to give them an equaliser/sneak lead a minute later and it's usually with shots that are easily saved.
 

LEGOFLAMB22

Registered User
Being able to win isn't the point - I still win on every pro evo on the highest setting most of the time (it's gotta be a challenge)

But when you lose due to stuff being out of your control you may as well not bother.

Is anyone in disagreement with the outline of all the cheating (that's been prevalent since I can remember (pro evo 4 for me)) outlined above?

If you do you're utterly wrong - every game does this and interestingly I posted a thread about all the cheating about 6 years ago when 2008 came out which details much the same thing...
 

schranken

Registered User
I am always knocked out by penalties when using England, when finally overcame it, beaten by Poland 3-0 in Euro final. AI always up the game in semifinal and final.

But I managed to win Champions league in first try using Juventus and Copa America using Argentina. Maybe the semis played in two legs :rolleyes:
 
Top