Ref: An honest (and logical) reason why PES is struggling

[marcgiu]

I know I have made some inflammatory posts on this site but I just wanted to clarify my history with PES.

I have played these games since ISS in the SNES and bought an N64 just to play ISS 64. I played all of the PS2 games up to 05 and felt that it was the best game series ever made. I held FIFA in poor regard but since 08 FIFA has been far more progressive.

The main issue on this forum is a majority of players see FIFA as being a shallow, glitzy experience. I understand this point of view and up to 07 I would agree. I used to love the depth of PES and played 04 on line more than any game before or since – I understood tactics (Changing RB’s to CB for example) but after playing PES 7 or PES 08 the product has been inferior – and not just on the surface. The ball control, shooting and tactical options are comparable with PES at its peak – in addition the presentation and gameplay options are far superior. I won’t even mention the online differences either.

I am not a fan boy by any stretch but the overwhelming issue with people on this forum is the blind faith in PES. Seabass is relying on loyalty but this is a brand and a product that costs money. I would not buy anything inferior because of brand loyalty. To sum up I believe you have 2 games that play well on the pitch , FIFA being slightly more fluid + one which has far superior presentation and on line options. It becomes a bit of a no brainer.

I understand that PES 10 has not been released yet but it’s an educated opinion based on previous re-incarnations and the Demo that means it won’t be getting my cash this year

Also don’t get me started on the demo debarcle.................J

 

[wallpaper_01]

Fair enough but I dnt like FIFA 10 this year, didn't mind it last year tho. I'm not unwilling to acept FIFA is better also. I just think I enjoyed the WE demo better, felt more like real football n gameplay on FIFA to me is boring and too similar all the time. I'm not biased just that's my opinion like u have yours.

 

[StringerBell]

I know I have made some inflammatory posts on this site but I just wanted to clarify my history with PES.

I have played these games since ISS in the SNES and bought an N64 just to play ISS 64. I played all of the PS2 games up to 05 and felt that it was the best game series ever made. I held FIFA in poor regard but since 08 FIFA has been far more progressive.

The main issue on this forum is a majority of players see FIFA as being a shallow, glitzy experience. I understand this point of view and up to 07 I would agree. I used to love the depth of PES and played 04 on line more than any game before or since – I understood tactics (Changing RB’s to CB for example) but after playing PES 7 or PES 08 the product has been inferior – and not just on the surface. The ball control, shooting and tactical options are comparable with PES at its peak – in addition the presentation and gameplay options are far superior. I won’t even mention the online differences either.

I am not a fan boy by any stretch but the overwhelming issue with people on this forum is the blind faith in PES. Seabass is relying on loyalty but this is a brand and a product that costs money. I would not buy anything inferior because of brand loyalty. To sum up I believe you have 2 games that play well on the pitch , FIFA being slightly more fluid + one which has far superior presentation and on line options. It becomes a bit of a no brainer.

I understand that PES 10 has not been released yet but it’s an educated opinion based on previous re-incarnations and the Demo that means it won’t be getting my cash this year

Also don’t get me started on the demo debarcle.................J

:tumble:

 

[marcgiu]

:tumble:

????

 

[worm]

Fair do's.

Can't you wait for the final version and then write that sort of stuff?

 

[Tommy88]

While theres no doubt fifa has improved i still have the same problem iv always had with fifa i find it emotionless and has no longevity, and im in no way blindy loyal 2 pes iv played all the past 3 fifas quite alot and i just get bored as hell with them.
And while i agree pes has fallen i still always play it through out the whole year.

 

[shaun7]

Fifa has improved yes and pes has gone downhill with pes 08 and 09, but 10 is really great so far from the WE demo especially.
This year both games are good. ACCEPT THAT.
If you say that there's a problem with people hating fifa on this forum then must I remind you that you're in a PES forum?
Anyway there are many members like you (no matter what you say) who are just the same but the other way round. They love fifa and hate pes.
Everyone has his opinion.

 

[marcgiu]

Fifa has improved yes and pes has gone downhill with pes 08 and 09, but 10 is really great so far from the WE demo especially.
This year both games are good. ACCEPT THAT.
If you say that there's a problem with people hating fifa on this forum then must I remind you that you're in a PES forum?
Anyway there are many members like you (no matter what you say) who are just the same but the other way round. They love fifa and hate pes.
Everyone has his opinion.

i don't have an issue with people hating FIFA - its the unconditional loyalty to PES that I find disappointing mate.

Take for example the Demo situ - everyone is saying that the final build will be better but given the strength of FIFA over the last 3 years would you not think that this was a perfect opp to show off the progress this year.

I just want to play the best footy game on the market and will buy PES once again if it recovers that mantle

 

[shaun7]

^Well I know, it was a really bad move from konami. They even admitted that the demo was an old build which confirmed what we thought.
Anyway my point is that we cannot jusge games before they are out. Everyone that played the latest build, has said that the pes demo is nothing compared to it.
But we'll see in the end though.

 

[S1mon]

^Completely agree with your first post Marcgiu... Pes has gone severely downhill since they changed the gameplay mechanics from 5 to 6. Don't really see why I should pay out 30 or so £'s just because a few fan boy's seem to think after 3 poor iterations, we are going to get drastic improvements. Right from ISS Pro Deluxe the series improved, until it hit PES6. Now Seabass seems determined to remove more and more features, as well as worsening the gameplay. The WE demo was on the same level as PES09: disappointing. I've no reason to expect change. Seeing as PES5 remains the best in the series, and its clear PES10 won't be better than it; Then I have no problem in playing 5, 4, or 3 for another year.

 

[soc160]

Im not really sure what the point is your making... why is ti struggling.. brand loyalty?

 

[The Liverpool Way]

All i'm saying is:

Wait for final game and then judge.

 

[manuxinho]

after the game release u will be changing your opinion matey,i have fifa 10 after a week of the release im bored....no football realistc or vibrant feeling what so ever...i know ever one is free to get their opinions...can wait for pro evo....

 

[Desijut]

fifa actually has a fun factor and realism but im waiting for pes defo

VP was an awesome innovation

 

[thearsenal]

I know I have made some inflammatory posts on this site but I just wanted to clarify my history with PES.

I have played these games since ISS in the SNES and bought an N64 just to play ISS 64. I played all of the PS2 games up to 05 and felt that it was the best game series ever made. I held FIFA in poor regard but since 08 FIFA has been far more progressive.

The main issue on this forum is a majority of players see FIFA as being a shallow, glitzy experience. I understand this point of view and up to 07 I would agree. I used to love the depth of PES and played 04 on line more than any game before or since – I understood tactics (Changing RB’s to CB for example) but after playing PES 7 or PES 08 the product has been inferior – and not just on the surface. The ball control, shooting and tactical options are comparable with PES at its peak – in addition the presentation and gameplay options are far superior. I won’t even mention the online differences either.

I am not a fan boy by any stretch but the overwhelming issue with people on this forum is the blind faith in PES. Seabass is relying on loyalty but this is a brand and a product that costs money. I would not buy anything inferior because of brand loyalty. To sum up I believe you have 2 games that play well on the pitch , FIFA being slightly more fluid + one which has far superior presentation and on line options. It becomes a bit of a no brainer.

I understand that PES 10 has not been released yet but it’s an educated opinion based on previous re-incarnations and the Demo that means it won’t be getting my cash this year

Also don’t get me started on the demo debarcle.................J

Here's a brilliant example of someone who doesn't like pes (maybe hates it, and that's fair enough), but his argument is so incoherent and makes so little sense that it becomes worthless.

the title is 'An honest (and logical) reason why PES is struggling', but you do very little to explain your reasons. Baffling.

The only things i can gather from your post is that you believe there are: "...2 games that play well on the pitch , FIFA being slightly more fluid + one which has far superior presentation and on line options. It becomes a bit of a no brainer." This makes sense, even though for me presentation and online are two issues which I don’t care much about, but if that’s what is important to you then thats cool. It also seems your main annoyance is that there are too many people with ‘blind faith’ for pes, but if you actually browsed this forum you would realize that that is by no means the case.

You appear to be trying to make an argument in the third paragraph, but it is not clear as to what product you are arguing for. I imagine it is for Fifa, but you wouldn’t know it by the way you write.

You would be taking a lot more seriously mate if you made a constructive argument, but it seems that you’ve failed even in this task.

 

[thenotsogood]

All i'm saying is:

Wait for final game and then judge.

You can say that all you want, but one thing you have to consider is how many people were put off from the demo...

Whilst I'm not saying this is the case with PES, but people will not buy a poorly advertised game (or anything for that matter), which would make the 'wait for the final game' argument pretty invalid.

Just look at it this way, what if EA released a shit demo, and then turned round and said 'Oh hay, it's an older build so its k'? Chances are you'd laugh at them.

This isn't me backing up FIFA, I just think the stance I have on the PES/FIFA saga is that in recent years, FIFA has improved a lot, and PES has witnessed a lot of empty promises, I think it's only logical to at least be curious as to what's making FIFA drag in a large crowd.

To end off, I hope PES does rock, but I think you're well within your rights to judge the final outcome of the game from the demo, as the demo is meant to represent a portion of the final game, and let the developers iron out some small bugs.

Me, personally, won't get to the jude from the final game stage, as judging from the demo, I really don't think it'll be worth the pricetag it receives (if I can get it for £20 then yeah, but £30+ is a no), which is a major shame on my part, because I've always loved PES, and I thought the leap to next gen would really bring the series forward

 

[edr2]

dudes..

Dudes fifa rocks, pes rocks, you want an easy pickup an play, go fifa, you want to blow your brain go pes, both "simulations" of football are good enough to play for a couple of years, but we cannot deny that fifa has no weight in their players (they are like floating in the field and little charge and they lost the ball) and pes has just like 9 dribbling skills, they have to improve a lot but they have good bases now.


One additional comment, in development there is something called framework, and easy explains as the base of code to start developing a software, as I can see PES has developed a really new cool framework(phisics, graphics, etc), and with a little bit of time great thinks can be made (DLC that can come may be great), instead of Fifa that stays with the same 2 year old framework and sooner o later will need a new start.

 

[red]

Nunca = Never

I wouldn't say it was blind faith, however there is a large portion of hope attached with each release!

 

[StringerBell]

I know I have made some inflammatory posts on this site but I just wanted to clarify my history with PES.

I have played these games since ISS in the SNES and bought an N64 just to play ISS 64. I played all of the PS2 games up to 05 and felt that it was the best game series ever made. I held FIFA in poor regard but since 08 FIFA has been far more progressive.

The main issue on this forum is a majority of players see FIFA as being a shallow, glitzy experience. I understand this point of view and up to 07 I would agree. I used to love the depth of PES and played 04 on line more than any game before or since – I understood tactics (Changing RB’s to CB for example) but after playing PES 7 or PES 08 the product has been inferior – and not just on the surface. The ball control, shooting and tactical options are comparable with PES at its peak – in addition the presentation and gameplay options are far superior. I won’t even mention the online differences either.

I am not a fan boy by any stretch but the overwhelming issue with people on this forum is the blind faith in PES. Seabass is relying on loyalty but this is a brand and a product that costs money. I would not buy anything inferior because of brand loyalty. To sum up I believe you have 2 games that play well on the pitch , FIFA being slightly more fluid + one which has far superior presentation and on line options. It becomes a bit of a no brainer.

I understand that PES 10 has not been released yet but it’s an educated opinion based on previous re-incarnations and the Demo that means it won’t be getting my cash this year

Also don’t get me started on the demo debarcle.................J

So your on a PES forum and see a problem that people are looking forward to the 2010 release? In other news the earth is round and water is wet many people here play both games on this forum. I dont understand this thread....

 

[sgmullins]

i don't have an issue with people hating FIFA - its the unconditional loyalty to PES that I find disappointing mate.

Take for example the Demo situ - everyone is saying that the final build will be better but given the strength of FIFA over the last 3 years would you not think that this was a perfect opp to show off the progress this year.

I just want to play the best footy game on the market and will buy PES once again if it recovers that mantle

I'm sorry but i find this bit very amusing "its the unconditional loyalty to PES that I find disappointing mate."

Have you been on the fifa 10 forum lately ?, that statement you made can also be applied to fifa 10.
The amount of things that are wrong with fifa 10 this year are quite laughable, especially after fifa 09, The more i play fifa 10 the more i am starting to hate it and see it for what it is.

On top of this the majority of fifa fans are claiming that their game is bug free(ignoring the flaws), there are also lots of fifa fans who are really unhappy with fifa 10 this year. This is the released version were not talking about demo's here. Some are saying the demo of fifa 10 is better than the actual game.

I have not played the we demo but i have the pes2010 demo, even based on just the gameplay i think it's better than fifa 10.