Stats update

[Emadeddie]

It's been 4 month now.. does Konami plan to update the stats anytime this century ???
most of the stats are from last year... players who appear in the last data pack have last year stats which has nothing to do with reality (Felipe Melo 87 , Lass Diarra 87 !!! ) while current stars are still appalling look no further than Vardy or Mahrez from Leicester, Firmino from Liverpool etc

There is no news on any players update i've seen and they are still pushing the stupid my club thing as if people care about an update for one mood while all the online & offline modes which make easily 90% of the game is left untouched
if they think we will wait till March (6 month after the game comes out ) and they do their update with the January transfers than they can easily take my name off the potential PES17 buyers ..

Konami has screwed up so many times this year .. they are on a suicide mission ...whether due to the volatile , angry Adam Bhatti or their staff who can't make proper updates

 

[AlekosG7]

Last year overall stats changed, when the January transfer window pack came. Hopefully now too. It is really weird to see a 87 Diarra or a 67 rated Trapp in the game.

 

[SportGameFan]

Konami has screwed up so many times this year .. they are on a suicide mission ...whether due to the volatile , angry Adam Bhatti or their staff who can't make proper updates

(Bold text added for emphasis.)

That made me laugh (at least internally)- funny!

I've already given up on with the Faux Engine from Conarmy- I'm having fun with PES 2013- 'out-of-date', but a much more satisfying/substantive game, in my opinion.

It does seem like a suicide mission- hari-kari! I swear they've f***ed up the game on purpose!

 

[AlekosG7]

(Bold text added for emphasis.)

That made me laugh (at least internally)- funny!

I've already given up on with the Faux Engine from Conarmy- I'm having fun with PES 2013- 'out-of-date', but a much more satisfying/substantive game, in my opinion.

It does seem like a suicide mission- hari-kari! I swear they've f***ed up the game on purpose!

I like the FOX engine much more. FOX engine looks more fluid and the animations realistic, while the old engine was quite robotic.

 

[Ali]

So many players need updates, and positions fixing.

Konami, being lazy, added a load of players in the last couple of DPs that had defaulted positions eg if a player is a defender, they automatically made him a CB, regardless of his actually position - see Brendon Galloway at Everton. And LB in real life, CB in PES.
Not only that, but many players have been added with low copy/paste attriubutes - so many players attributes are identical, even within the same teams! I have used exampled from Bolton before:

http://www.pesmaster.com/r-holding/pes-2016/player/109571/
http://www.pesmaster.com/derik-osede/pes-2016/player/107587/

 

[SportGameFan]

I like the FOX engine much more. FOX engine looks more fluid and the animations realistic, while the old engine was quite robotic.

This is the thing about modern day gaming (and younger 'gamers')- people/game publishers care more about graphics than actual (substantive) gameplay.

I've had really exciting goalmouth situations occur in PES 2013 that just do not happen in PES 2016. Greater variety of CPU shots and goals, less predictable, nice and slow on '-2' speed (like PES 5). PES 2016 is a very superficial game, when it's time for the CPU to score, it'll score; and even on 'Superstar' with full manual, there is just no real substance to the game. Surely you're sick of those robotic CPU goals that go into the bottom corner of the net? It's easy to run through the middle of the park, the game doesn't reward simulation-style play.

The graphics are absolutely brilliant in PES 2013, after calibrating our television, and the actual gameplay is far better than that of the latest iteration of the series. EA Sports and Konami seem to only want to appeal to younger gamers who want pixel-perfect renditions of their favourite 'super-star' players, and lots of goals, however cheap.

The introduction of Konami's cross-game development engine is where it all started to go wrong again (like when they brought PES 2008 to the PS3). It's a shame that both Konami and EA Sports only care about ripping people off with stupid modes (in my not-so-humble opinion) such as FUT and MyClub. As for statistics in the game, I've found that even boosting the goalkeeper to an overall rating of '97' does nothing to stop those robotic CPU shots that go into the bottom corners of the net!

Cheap, cynical programming, packaged within the Faux Engine.

 

[Grokiestos]

This is just my opinion for healthy discussion
Bottom corner shot can be anticipated by activing manual GK control spontaneously.
My Club is optional, although i never play it, I don't bother its there
Not sure these were already provided back then: high cross, early cross, fluid formation, curve trajectory which add richness to the game.
I do agree that the player update is slow for offline, but online feel acceptable.

 

[SportGameFan]

This is just my opinion for healthy discussion
Bottom corner shot can be anticipated by activing manual GK control spontaneously.

Well, don't save too many of those low corner shots or the CPU will almost never score! ; -)

 

[Grokiestos]

Well, don't save too many of those low corner shots or the CPU will almost never score! ; -)

Thanks for your suggestion

 

[SportGameFan]

Thanks for your suggestion

No problem!

 

[vialli82]

Fox Engine ain't nothing to do with AI flows neither gameplay.
It's not only animations, but physics, they are way more advanced that the ps2 engine (which includes PES 2013) and you can denies that.

Much more variety in contacts with Fox (havok), one vs one collisions, turning with or without the ball, physical logics, height/weight influence.
But all the rest is basic as you said, when PES 2013 cames to be the summum of ps2 engine pushed to his limits, that's normal that the game have much more little things which contribue to variety in situations...

They restarted in february 2014 (only 2 years while PES 2013 in ps3 era have 7 years of adding stuffs) about gameplay mecanisms to be fit for the new engine, and it's a hard thing to do, it takes time.

I believe that in the future PES will add more complexity/variety in situations, AI movements, and algorithms for shooting/passing etc. like they do in the past, and which makes PES 2013 the game it was.

It's all about gameplay mechanisms, AI movements, and little algorithms added on shooting/passing. But the current engine have a really big potential, a mix between physical realism and stats contribution (needs more btw)

My whole point is you're wrong in your approch: Fox Engine/Havok is NOT not related neither responsible at all to what you're pointing fingers on.

 

[SportGameFan]

I wrote:

...Cheap, cynical programming, packaged within the Faux Engine.

To which you retorted:

Fox Engine ain't nothing to do with AI flows neither gameplay.
It's not only animations, but physics, they are way more advanced that the ps2 engine (which includes PES 2013) and you can denies that.

Much more variety in contacts with Fox (havok), one vs one collisions, turning with or without the ball, physical logics, height/weight influence.
But all the rest is basic as you said, when PES 2013 cames to be the summum of ps2 engine pushed to his limits, that's normal that the game have much more little things which contribue to variety in situations...

They restarted in february 2014 (only 2 years while PES 2013 in ps3 era have 7 years of adding stuffs) about gameplay mecanisms to be fit for the new engine, and it's a hard thing to do, it takes time.

I believe that in the future PES will add more complexity/variety in situations, AI movements, and algorithms for shooting/passing etc. like they do in the past, and which makes PES 2013 the game it was.

It's all about gameplay mechanisms, AI movements, and little algorithms added on shooting/passing. But the current engine have a really big potential, a mix between physical realism and stats contribution (needs more btw)

My whole point is you're wrong in your approch: Fox Engine/Havok is NOT not related neither responsible at all to what you're pointing fingers on.

I am perfectly well aware of the fact that the much-touted/hyped 'Fox Engine' is a cross-platform game engine. It's a shame that the PES programmers can no longer be bothered to develop a substantive game for offline players.

 

[vialli82]

Sorry, i seriously didn't see packaged but FAUX Engine retain my attention lol.

BTW Fox Engine it's not the problem of PES 2016 or 2015, it's the way the programmers repose too much on.
They think the engine can take all alone with physics only, that's not how it works, and for me the basis that Kojima/Havok have created have very big potential.

While the old engine have showed from long time it's limits, even in PES 2013 in many area, aerial, physics, 360 movements etc.

Really when i see some people who want to go back to the old engine (ps2 engine ported with some algorithms for PS360, but same basis) for the next PES series give me chills, so no i don't really talk to you personnally but no, the Fox Engine isn't responsible of all the pain you/we suffered with current PES games.

 

[SportGameFan]

Sorry, i seriously didn't see packaged but FAUX Engine retain my attention lol.

BTW Fox Engine it's not the problem of PES 2016 or 2015, it's the way the programmers repose too much on.
They think the engine can take all alone with physics only, that's not how it works, and for me the basis that Kojima/Havok have created have very big potential.

While the old engine have showed from long time it's limits, even in PES 2013 in many area, aerial, physics, 360 movements etc.

Really when i see some people who want to go back to the old engine (ps2 engine ported with some algorithms for PS360, but same basis) for the next PES series give me chills, so no i don't really talk to you personnally but no, the Fox Engine isn't responsible of all the pain you/we suffered with current PES games.

I agree, it isn't the Fox Engine as such that has created these problems, it's the programmers (and the developers/producers/publishers who dictate to the programmers) who are to blame.

I make fun of the Fox Engine hype because Konami tout that as being what the game is all about- yet their coding leaves an awful lot to be desired! I have stated before on here that the animations of player control, for example, are very good indeed. Konami have stripped the game-play down, almost to a bare minimum, as far as the CPU AI is concerned. MyClub is great for those who want to play that mode, but older 'gamers' such as myself have no interest whatsoever in it.

I got tired of the same old goals being score by the CPU teams- there is far more variety of CPU AI in PES 2013. This is the first time that I have gone back to an older edition of a football game.

Anyway, I really appreciate your reply, thanks!

 

[vialli82]

No prob mate, it wasn't personnal and i understand and share your feelings, even if i'm not that severe on PES 2016 which i enjoy personnally, perhaps the way i play it i don't know.

But like i said earlier, it's not that the engine "downgraded" the game, but i think the programmers don't have as much experience working on it. Now for the future i think they're totally ready.

PES 2014 for example was a port of PES 2013 mechanisms on the new engine, but it doesn't fit: all needed to be revamped to have something fluid and responsive.

If you remember an interview with Julien Merceron, they only rebuilded the gameplay on that engine since february 2014 for PES 2015 out.

And i still believe that in the future, all the compartiments will be revamped since the Fox is mastered now. It will become more complex and add variety, like in every sports games. Remember how basic was FIFA 08 (every players have the same height lol), and how much features they added on PS360 era... Not very well for all but, that's not the point.
I mean liberty and variety, not the way they "arcady" calibrate attack/defense which was their own choice.

PES 2016 is obviously unfinished in some areas, basic shooting, keepers, etc. but Pes Production doesn't have a big effective and it takes more times to insert new features and algorithms for them than for EA Fifa branch for example.

 

[SportGameFan]

The problem is, they charged full retail price for basically an unfinished product; they should have waited for another year. They could have at least programmed some variation in how the CPU scores, made the refereeing a lot better, and of course the goalkeepers are largely pathetic in PES 2016.

That is due to poor/lazy/careless programming rather than the utilisation of the physics/animation engine.

If I buy PES 2017, it won't be until the price drops, I'm extremely wary of Konami (and EA Sports) these days. Even if the game is really good when it's released, they can still destroy it with bad patches (as with what happened to FIFA 16)!

 

[AlekosG7]

This is the thing about modern day gaming (and younger 'gamers')- people/game publishers care more about graphics than actual (substantive) gameplay.

I've had really exciting goalmouth situations occur in PES 2013 that just do not happen in PES 2016. Greater variety of CPU shots and goals, less predictable, nice and slow on '-2' speed (like PES 5). PES 2016 is a very superficial game, when it's time for the CPU to score, it'll score; and even on 'Superstar' with full manual, there is just no real substance to the game. Surely you're sick of those robotic CPU goals that go into the bottom corner of the net? It's easy to run through the middle of the park, the game doesn't reward simulation-style play.

The graphics are absolutely brilliant in PES 2013, after calibrating our television, and the actual gameplay is far better than that of the latest iteration of the series. EA Sports and Konami seem to only want to appeal to younger gamers who want pixel-perfect renditions of their favourite 'super-star' players, and lots of goals, however cheap.

The introduction of Konami's cross-game development engine is where it all started to go wrong again (like when they brought PES 2008 to the PS3). It's a shame that both Konami and EA Sports only care about ripping people off with stupid modes (in my not-so-humble opinion) such as FUT and MyClub. As for statistics in the game, I've found that even boosting the goalkeeper to an overall rating of '97' does nothing to stop those robotic CPU shots that go into the bottom corners of the net!

Cheap, cynical programming, packaged within the Faux Engine.

I think that almost everything is better in PES 2016 than in PES 2013. It's not only the graphics and better animations, but also the gameplay which has more variety. The goalkeepers are far better than in 2013, the ball physics, tackling physics (which look incredible) and of course the passing. And for the AI, there is a lot to fix yes, but for me it is playable.