Thoughts/Reviews for people with the game!

[JMTD]

Not sure if there's a thread somewhere out there, apologies if there is. Thought it might be a good idea to possibly create a thread where people can discuss their first thoughts upon getting the game etc, rather than post after post being made, though I'm sure that will still happen :tongue:

Anyway, I got my copy this morning. Thoughts so far:

First game was an exhibition, United against Norwich, preview of the weekends game. Tested out professional, must say I understand the extra difficulty setting now, as it feels easier in the full game on professional, though that COULD be down to me playing against a rather weak side, not sure yet.

First impressions are great. Speed is faster than the demo, which surprised me. Amazingly more smooth than the demo too. Dribbling also improved, dribbling with Nani feels very realistic, with him cutting in like he does in real life. Keepers seem slightly improved actually, still the odd mistake here and there, but I haven't seen anything major yet, so happy with that. No Cleverley at United, he's still at Wigan, sure that'll change with the transfer update when it comes out.

After that game I wasted no time and went straight into MLO. Started it as United of course. Quickly sold a few default players, not too many though. Stamina is a MASSIVE importance in this game and as mentioned before, fatigue carries on to the next game, as do cards of course. Sliding from behind is MUCH more dangerous now. In '11 you could do crazy sliding tackles and get a yellow, not anymore, a straight red, sometimes even a little soft actually, and because red cards carry on to the next game, it'll cut down the amount of idiots who constantly hack people down.

Connection wise, pretty good. I've got what I'd call a below average connection, yet most games have been okay. A couple were verging on perfect, while a couple more were just normal, while the odd one was a little laggy, so it varies really, but I haven't had any terrible lag yet.

The new disconnection stuff will certainly need to be looked in to. Was 2-0 up against somebody, they quit towards the end and my percentage went down apparently, or so the warning said. I still got a 3-0 win and the money, which is pretty bizarre. Not sure where to find your percentage rate either, so I've no clue what I'm on, though I've played about 10 games and only had one person disconnect.

Defense and off the ball controls are a must for online. If you cant defend very well, you're probably going to get battered. I thought I was very good at defending, well after a couple of games online, I've started to doubt that. Finding it very tough at times, could be the default players, but it's feeling much tougher, but a great challenge.

Player contracts are brilliant. As I said, played about ten games so far, sold about 7-8 default players and managed to bring in R V Nistelrooy, Welbeck and Cleverley and have renewed a few contracts (500 odd k for the default players for 10 games at minimum). You get much more money for games now too, about 600 k for a loss, which is almost as much as you would get for wins in '11.

Some new players on the default team, nice to see, quite a big squad. Balance is important and you need a good squad, rather than just a good starting eleven. Also a little tip, if coming up against a lower team, it might be a good idea to rest your top players, saving them game time on their contract, as if they don't play, their contract time stays the same.

I started very well with two wins on the trot, then had a cracking 3-2 loss before going onto an awful losing streak of about 5 games, my team just felt like they were in a slump and struggling to get that little break, classic Pro. Finally back on good terms though with two or so straight wins. Form is very different too, doesn't change from game to game, stays the same all day, I quite like it actually.

So overall, I'm loving this so far. I need to play more offline as I've only had the one offline game to try out the AI properly and everything as well as check out the training challenges. Also, the game loading is way quicker than last year and the online menus and presentation are lovely IMO, very simply, yet very stylish.

Oh and Neymar is already the most popular player by a mile, steer clear of him :laugh:

I'll probably add more within time once I play more, massive thumbs up so far, sorry for the rant!

 

[Ultimate777]

Great read and very well thought out review with no agenda. Gives me a very good idea of how the final product plays, as much as I expected.

Well done.

 

[orlandoSPUR]

agreed with you there fella about the defending I thought I was good but last night I took some batterings, some of them really pissed me off as it was a case of the opponent having a couple of fast players and me having a crap defense, and I'd miss the run so they would be through on goal and quick fake shot and round the rushing keeper. today i have really tightened things up got a couple of wins and my losses are by the odd goal.

dropped my squad to 17 players need a few more wins to bring that up though to 20
GK - Lothar
RB - Kyle Walker
CB - Caulker,
CB - Maynor Figouroa
LB - a generic LB the one with a V he's quick though
RM - Gimenez
DM - Sandro
CM - Craig Gardner of sunderland
LW - El Hamdoui (he was my SS but I brought in someone else so will play him high as LWF)
SS - Toivenon - PSV
CF - Some korean fella who is really very good

rest are made up of CPU generated players but they are the ones who have done well when i started out.

So no real stars for me but good pace to counter what other online players are doing. as generally i;m playing people who have got 2 maybe 3 stars, players like Neymar, Villa, Arshavin, Gyan (very quick not sure how much he costs) V. Persie, even Defoe (as a Spur i wouldn't really want him) all the rest are the generic players. and my results are slowly improving:laugh:

 

[Makavelian]

I can't really agree with you that the full game is faster than the demo It's just the same, and the goalkeeper are just as shit, like the demo.

 

[orlandoSPUR]

I can't really agree with you that the full game is faster than the demo and the goalkeepers are better,they still are just as shit.

some of the slow shots to the corners that my nan could have got are awful. however at other times they pull off some excellent saves. just my pov. especially when you have them rushing out. only problem is the shitty faked shot and round the keeper that ive been seeing today

 

[JMTD]

I can't really agree with you that the full game is faster than the demo It's just the same, and the goalkeeper are just as shit, like the demo.

Fair dues man. I need to play more offline to really see, but in the one game I played offline it felt much quicker than the demo, maybe down to it being more smooth than the demo. I haven't seen the keepers do anything bad for me yet off or online, minus some terrible decisions to come charging out of goal when I don't want him too (they still haven't changed that so you can have him as manual and decide when to always bring him out? Sometimes he comes when you don't want him to, sometimes he doesn't when you do want him to).

Liking that team Orlando, built up nicely from front to back, what I'm aiming to do now too. Cheers for the mention of the Korean player too, reminds me to take a look at Japan and South Korea for some players, loving me some of them

 

[orlandoSPUR]

i need to definitely improve on Caulker though, and get a dedicated AML and RM

------------------------------------GK--------------------------------

-------------------------------CB ---------CB-------------------
-------------------RB-----------------------------LB---------------------

--------------------------------DM---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------CM-----------------------------------

-------RM---------------------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------------------LM

-------------------------------------------------SS------------------------------

------------------------------CF-------------------------------------------

 

[lyc10]

mixed feelings about the game, mainly MLO cause thats the only thing i've played

my biggest concern is how easy it is to get not only good players, but world class players....i bought 5 really good players in less than 40 games. Obviously theres gonna be those people who get messi, ronaldo, arshavin and all that right from the bat, so I would say this new system pretty much fails if their target was to make it harder to get good players.
Second, the form which stays the same for the whole day. Don't like it really, as I think that this pretty much makes the condition stats useless. Yesterday I had the most frustrating run of games playing against the same player over and over. The guy had Messi,Sanchez,Bellamy, Silva, Villa, and some really fast players, the best thing about it was that these players were all on red or orange arrows. The guy had a speedy team type(surprise surprise),all he did was pass the ball to messi and sprint there was just no way that my defenders could even get close to him. Before I started getting paired up against him, my rating dropped from around 600 to 560ish just because I couldn't handle messi with Jaric

 

[IronCity]

I should have sent my wife away on a weekend vacation so I could get to the game to really know my impressions. Just can't get enough time in on it. gotta go, she is calling again.

 

[Amateur]

I bought PES12 yesterday, I have given it plenty of time, and I just don’t get it; I mean, I’m good at it, but I just don’t find it entertaining enough, just like PES11, it feels flat more often than not.

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manual off the ball movement
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The main selling point for me was the new off the ball movement feature, and I am massively disappointed with how disappointing it actually is. It’s not that the manual off the ball movement is useless, it’s more that it’s worthless.

You need to simultaneously press and direct the right analog stick, and added to that, you also need to determine the direction in which the ball carrier runs with the ball and also the direction in which the ball carrier passes the ball; what all this means, of course, is that Konami thought that it would be a good idea to merge all those different senses of direction, direction of dribbling, direction of off the ball movement, direction of passing, into what is without doubt the most difficult and nonsensical control scheme that I have experienced in any video game.

If you have not played the game, can you imagine how it would feel to press the R1 button and at the same time press and direct the right analog stick? It doesn’t even make sense in theory, and I can assure you, that however uncomfortable (as opposed to difficult) you imagine it to be, it will be twice as uncomfortable when you actually play the game.

I described the system as useful, because once you master it, it can make a great deal of difference where it matters the most; but I described it as worthless, because in my opinion it does not make the video game more fun nor more interesting than it is without the feature.

The off the ball system is similar to a film with an excellent script but with mediocre actors, the proposition and the substance of the film might be interesting, but at the end of the day, the execution is mediocre; and that’s what people will remember the most.

Yes, determining the direction of off the ball movement sounds fun and interesting; yet simultaneously determining numerous factors such as — (1st) simultaneously press and direct the right analog stick, in order to determine the direction of off the ball movement (2nd) direct the left analog stick, in order to determine the direction in which the ball carrier runs (3rd) press the R1 sprint button and R2 close control button, in order to determine how the ball carrier moves through space (4th) depress and release the right analog stick, in order to press the passing button (5th) direct the left analog stick, in order to determine the direction of the pass — is not actually fun, it doesn’t even sounds fun, it sounds like an overly mechanic and robotic procedure, and that’s exactly how it feels when playing the game.

Useful, can make the difference against a difficult opponent, but you’ll find yourself ignoring it more often than not.

Added to that, for mature football viewers such as myself, it is impossible not to take any notice of the fact that it is impossible to determine the direction in which the ball carrier will run after he passes the ball; something you see in real football all the time, is impossible to do in PES12 (and also in FIFA12, as well).

Is it that difficult to (1st) two seconds after you first touched the ball: direct the right analog stick (without pressing it) towards the north, and release (as opposed to hold) the right analog stick immediately after indicating the direction (2nd) so that, five seconds later, when the ball carrier passes the ball, he will run without the ball towards the north? Sounds easy, sounds intuitive, sounds fun, sounds useful, yet Konami failed to implement such a feature.

The manual off the ball system is not responsive nor consistent enough, to determine the off the ball movement of the player who just passed the ball, before the receiver of the pass has his first touch on the ball; again, this could be done by simply directing the right analog stick (without pressing it) before passing the ball, so that when you pass the ball, before the receiver of the pass has his first touch on the ball, the player who passed the ball will already be running towards the given direction.

It is disappointing to know that I could produce smarter off the ball movement in PES10, by simply holding the L2 button + tapping the short passing button + then releasing the L2 button (no direction needed, since the direction was preset), than with the PES12 manual off the ball system.

Bottom line, there is a massive difference between difficulty and stupidity; playing Mortal Kombat against a pro is difficult, PES12’s manual off the ball system is stupid.

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defending
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As with all football sims to date, the PES12 defensive system is about pointlessly and thoughtlessly bashing many different buttons simultaneously, it is not about actually pressing a button after carefully thinking about what is actually happening on the pitch.

And that's not really that bad, because all football sims to date are like that; what makes it particularly disappointing, is that instead of stripping the game down into the essentials, over the years Konami has added more and more irrelevant buttons that add nothing to the game.

Answer me this: when defending, why do I need to release the R1 sprint button in order to press and hold the R2 button + press and hold the R2 button + press and hold the short passing button (user controlled player pressure button), whenever I get close enough to the ball carrier??

Why in the name of logic do I need to constantly and simultaneously press and hold and release THREE different buttons in order to do something so simple?? It does not make any sense; I mean, when I’m holding the R2 button, I cannot use the R1 button, therefore why the fuck do I need to release the R1 button in order to use the R2 button in the first place?? Why can’t the R1 button automatically function differently in different situations and save you the time that is currently spent doing stupid unnecessary shit?

Surely, considering the fact that when you are holding the R2 defensive button thingy, you cannot actually press the R1 sprint button; then why the fuck does Konami not do something that actually makes sense??

And by that I mean, get fucking rid of the unnecessary R2 defensive thingy and get fucking rid of the user controlled player pressure thingy, make it automatic, whenever the ball carrier gets close enough to the defender, the R1 sprint button does not function like a sprint button, and instead (1st) not pressing the R1 button is the equivalent of pressing and holding the R2 button without pressing and holding the short passing button, and (2nd) pressing and releasing the R1 sprint button is the equivalent of pressing and holding the R2 button + pressing and releasing the short passing button... as simple as that, you get rid of the R2 defensive thingy which is not needed at all, you get rid of the pressure button which is also not needed at all, and you simply make better use of the R1 sprint button.

But no, Konami needs to have a robotic system where the user needs to bash four different buttons simultaneously. I am very good at defending in PES12, and I never actually think about how I defend, this is what happens when I defend....

(1st) the predetermined script plays out without my input

(2nd) and I react by directing the left analog stick in accordance to the predetermined script that is playing out without my input

(3rd) obviously I need to press the R1 sprint button in order to move through space, with the left analog stick determining the direction of off the ball movement, and with the predetermined script determining how the left analog stick should be used

(4th) so I am directing the left analog stick and pressing the R1 sprint button, but at the same time / simultaneously, I am also pressing and holding the COM pressure button

(5th) I eventually get close enough to the ball carrier, by which time, I need to release the R1 sprint button in order to press and hold the R2 button; by which time, I will also need to press and hold the USER pressure button

(6th) whilst holding down the R2 button and whilst pressing down the USER pressure button, you then release the USER pressure button in order to attempt to take the ball away from the ball carrier; if you fail, you need to restart the whole procedure again, and again, until you eventually win the ball back or until you eventually concede a goal.

Bottom line, in PES12, when defending, in order to do the simplest of things, I need to bash FOUR different buttons simultaneously; why?

If you can write something about an extremely simple subject, is it more difficult to write the longest possible article about a simple subject or is it more difficult to be as concise as possible?? You will find that being concise is much more difficult than simply writing long paragraphs filled with no actual content or substance.

That’s what PES12 is, merely releasing the R1 button in order to press the R2 button, is not something smart, it is something obvious and boring, and it does not require any skill, it is pretty simple: release the R1 button, and then press and hold the R2 button.

The problem with PES12 is, that added to the stupid and unnecessary procedure of having to release the R1 button in order to press and hold the R2 button, is that you constantly need to hold the COM pressure button, and also the USER pressure button; and when you add all those buttons that you constantly need to press and hold simultaneously, it just feels boring, because there is no CONTENT or SUBSTANCE underneath all that button smashing.

That’s precisely why reading long paragraphs about nothing, is boring, because there’s no actual content underneath all the words or vocabulary; and that’s precisely how PES12 feels, endless paragraphs and no content or substance underneath the bashing of the buttons, ONE button could easily do what FOUR different buttons do in PES12; not my opinion, just a fact.

In PES12 and FIFA12, when defending, you never actually think, you react all the time in accordance to the chess game or script that automatically plays out without your input; the formula was successful in the PS2 days, but the formula is not good enough anymore, and unfortunately neither Konami nor EA Sports wants to offer a new take on the genre and are instead ruining the genre with the excessive use of completely irrelevant buttons that do nothing and add nothing to the actual game.

That pretty much sums up everything that has gone wrong with the genre since it moved on to the current gen of consoles; complicated controls, does not mean that the game is smarter or evolved.

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overall
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All things considered, I think that PES12 is, if not the best, one of the best PES games I have played to date, for everything that it offers, but I think it is ultimately let down by terrible execution.

Defending would be much more enjoyable if the robotic procedure of having to simultaneously press so many different buttons in order to do things that the computer should do for you, was stripped down into a simpler and more intuitive system.

The R1 Sprint button should cover TWO different functions: sprint, and applying pressure. Therefore, pressing and holding the short passing button would no longer be necessary, because the R1 Sprint button would also cover that function.

The R2 defensive thingy should be removed all together, it is not needed, the computer should automatically do it when the ball carrier is within 10 feet or 15 feet from the nearest defender.

The COM pressure button, which requires that you constantly press down and hold the shooting button, should be replace by a simpler feature: press and release the shooting button once, and after that, the L1 Sprint will work as an identical twin of the R1 Sprint, but the L1 Sprint will be attached to a different player. Simultaneously pressing the R1 and L1 button is easy and intuitive. And of course, pressing and releasing the shooting button, would mean that the L1 button will be attached to a different player each time that you press and release the shooting button.

So basically, the defensive controls, in my opinion, should be stripped down into only the following three controls: the R1 Sprint covering for two different functions (sprint and pressure), the shooting button and the L1 Sprint button covering for three different functions (com player select, com sprint, and com pressure), and the R2 would be automatically pressed by the computer. Simple.

The PES12 off the ball movement is probably the best I have seen in any footy sim to date, or at least in any PES game to date; but, again, PES12 is let down by terrible execution. Konami should really remove all the unnecessary buttons and simplify the execution; but besides that, although in my opinion it is a disappointing and outdated video game, PES12 is the first PES game in a long time that can at least be compared with PES5 or PES6 in terms of pure entertainment, although, unlike PES5 and PES6, PES12 is let down by terrible execution in many areas of the game, but particularly in the defensive aspect.

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PES12 vs FIFA12
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For the first year ever, I think, one cannot say that one of the games is horrible, because both games are playable and decent efforts; albeit, in my opinion, somewhat underwhelming.

From FIFA12, I really like the L1 shielding dribble, with the ball feeling like an independent factor as opposed to a glued to the foot factor; although, as usual, after a few games, the goals start feeling a bit too repetitive.

From PES12, I like the feel of the link feints, though the control scheme or execution is not the best. Obviously, I also like that each goal feels slightly different, unlike FIFA after a few hours of play. Although, overall, I’m mostly disappointed by the off the ball system and by the Active AI.

I don’t want to comment anything more about PES12 vs FIFA12, because I feel I need to play both games more, before giving more specific observations. I’ll just say that I’m not thrilled by either game, neither one is bad, but neither one offers something worthy of the word “great”.

 

[techboy11]

Nice post Amateur, I may not agree with you from time to time but I respect anyone who puts a concise lengthy opinion together. I feel you've weighed the games up and then put keyboard to paper so to speak. I have been initially very impressed with PES2012. I wasn't at first and it took ages to get to grips with. But I feel I'm there. My game comes today I believe so I'm going to belt it out over the next few days.

Needless to say, with any PES release, I'm waiting for that sinking moment where I either see the glaring problems shining through or just get thoroughly sick of it. Touch wood, at the moment I'm loving it.

 

[timjking]

Pretty decent review here: http://www.vantagemagazine.co.uk/pes-2012-review/6008/ Although not as in depth as some of Amateurs replies.

 

[Cracks]

My toughts on the game are short. It all comes down to this - when I play PES 2012 i pretty much lose my nerves, start banging something closest to me and scream when I concede or score a goal.. So in one word - BEAUTIFUL!

 

[Cracks]

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PES12 vs FIFA12
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It is inevitable to compare these two games every year, and I also try to be realistic, and without prejudice search for the good/bad sides of each game.
And let's be honest, Ea Sports FIFA has value also, but mostly it's in the licenced teams, good design and great presentation. Also, they try to bring new stuff into the game every year, and focus on online game modes to bring people together. What FIFA lacks for me is gameplay, and always was.
KONAMI on the other hand thinks in a very different way, focusing only on good reallistic gameplay. I played FIFA until PES came to PC, and then when I started playing PES I was dazzeled by the fluidness of the gameplay, I actually felt every controlled player on the pitch, what he can and cannot do.
FIFA in my opinion doesn't have that, every player looks and feels the same, their movement with quick turns, passing etc isn't reallistic, and the gameplay is arcade for me.
I'm a big fan of football, watching it and playing all my life, and would really like to see change in either of these games. As you said, neither is perfect, and if one of them would improve their bad sides, that would be THE game.

 

[simononestop]

ok i might be stupid here, but How come people have it before the release date?

 

[Amateur]

The preset strategies are great, it adds another dimension to the game, and it's very easy to do, by simply directing the d-pad towards the east.

PES12, for the time being, has really surprised me, it's not great, but I'm certainly glad that I bought it.

The only real negative for me about this game, is the defensive side, and it's because of the unnecessary buttons that you need to press and hold simultaneously; if Konami strip down the defensive buttons into a simpler and more intuitive control scheme, their game will improve significantly.

 

[IronCity]

The preset strategies are great, it adds another dimension to the game, and it's very easy to do, by simply directing the d-pad towards the east.

PES12, for the time being, has really surprised me, it's not great, but I'm certainly glad that I bought it.

The only real negative for me about this game, is the defensive side, and it's because of the unnecessary buttons that you need to press and hold simultaneously; if Konami strip down the defensive buttons into a simpler and more intuitive control scheme, their game will improve significantly.

You have something there - I have only had the time to play a few games but I realized I need to sit down to learn how to play defense - I have no idea what the controls are right now without picking up the manual

 

[bullybull]

Agreed with Amateur about the defensive system, it's too complicated and I need to press too many keys. I remember PES as a game with simplicity yet has a fantastic gameplay. But this year Konami has made it so complicated.

In previous year I can always defend well by not rushing into tackle and keep a space with attackers asking help from teammate. But this year I found when I use R2 + X, like everyone said when defending, the attackers will just walk slowly while my defender will backoff slowly until the attacker pass and pass and pass and through pass and goal. If I close down quickly with X, most often I will concede a foul.

And I am surprised no one mentioned the freekick. We know from previous PES version that when COM get a FK near penalty box, 90% of the FKs will go to top corner and the goalkeepers won't be able to save it. Usually we can put a defender at the corner to head the ball away. But this year even if u put a tall defender, the def will jump like a girl and the FK will still go in. Basically if the COm get a FK, it is like conceding penalty and will result in goal.

This year PES is just too scripted. Despite all the flaws previous PES had, I always like them and still play them, including PES 2008, 2009, 2010 which a lot of players hated. That's how low my standard is, but this year I am really disappointed. Never thought I would say this as I have played this game since Winning Eleven 3 and liked every versions after that.

 

[Bite.Me]

Defending this year = backing up until you concede a goal

Even if you contain the opposing team, they always get tons of scrapy goals...

And I still don't know how you can get physical with an opponent, like the CPU does to you... for example when your player receives the ball with back turned to goal, the CPU always presses and most of the times, a weak pass or bad reception will follow.... How do I do that when it's the other way around?

Whenever I try to use my defender's body to press the opponent, it's a foul.

 

[MozzyEng]

I seem to be getting better at pes12 now. Managing to more or less constantly beat the Ai. But its hit and miss with defending for me. I aint sure if its me who still aint fully got to grips with defending, Or the ai which sometimes "Turn it on". But i must admit i still button mash whilst defending during games