WE8: annoyed with turtle minded comp AI?

[bonk]

...the only logical thing i did when i got furious over my defense AI (them jerking around like idiots and quite often even running AWAY from the ball) and smashed my 5th (!) pad to pieces, i simply raised my players` (at least the defensive ones) `response` attributes to an average of 85-90. it`s so much more real now since they react really life-like quick and don`t dodge any balls anymore. but actually, as to make the game even i have to do that with EVERY player in WE8!!!
...but oh boy, it`s definitely worth it. as long as it hasn`t been fixed in PES4.

 

[SmAaTtAtN]

but do the players run away from the ball on a particular star level or even on six-star?

 

[Nturtle]

bonk...I'm with you...they are just SHITE.....my defenders...and worse on 5* compared to 4*....sigh....just steamrollered by Real MAdrid etc...

 

[bonk]

now i`m satisfied, but still...

bonk...I'm with you...they are just SHITE.....my defenders...and worse on 5* compared to 4*....sigh....just steamrollered by Real MAdrid etc...

so,
i played around with some constellations of how this `response` attribute works for the different strength level of teams and in regard to the difficulty level 5&6.

first i played a match germany vs. japan (average team assessment). according the current real (in reality) team conditions both teams are above world average with germany experiencing a truly surprising revival with new coach klinsmann (remember when they played a 1-1 against champ brazil some week ago?), so i would have tipped germany having the edge there. after that i played germany vs. brazil to see how it changes when playing against a top team.
for all 3 teams` players i put the `response ` around 88-90. and i played 30min half time on 5* and 6*. here is my conclusion.
if you`re annoyed with your players AI dooming behavior on the pitch, slow motion-like reaction, them stop running and start walking instead of getting on that striker who is just about to cut to the box 2 meters to your right?
all of these things stopped once i made that little manual change. players swiftly respond to my command when i click on them and the defensive AI just improved vastly. now they are intercepting these puny comp through passes (that earlier would have fooled all your defense or worse, that your players would let pass just in front of their eyes) and the team thinking is much better as the AI positioning also went up. due to the latter i now had a nice midfield play (that i missed so much) since the comp cannot just feed his strikers at any given moment as they are often blocked by my defense AI. it all finally looked like a real-life match.
as i played with germany, japan was visibly weaker than brazil of course, but they still created some chances (as long as you don`t take them seriously). it was a very very interessting match and not at all so fast as many of you experienced when playing on 6* (since the pass ways are really getting less with the improved AI positioning). i only managed to win 2-0 (despite being one of these players who still think 6* is not enough). the second game against brazil was awesome. brazil was slightly better, since they really have the better individual players (again, as in reality), but still, the comp now clearly had problems creating runways for the strikers (they only had 3 big chances in the first half, one of which ronaldo netted with a beautiful lob over kahn). i even lost a defender when i brought down ronaldo as he was about to get away (i was the last man) to a red card. i still won 3-2, but brazil was just better, they outshot me in the second half (34-13), and pressing was very tough from them (often i had to pass the ball around on my half just as not to lose it and be in danger of another fast ronaldo run). when being down to 10men i had big trouble creating just a single simple attack as their positioning and reaction really went up due to my previous change. i only got back into play when r.carlos was sent off.

so the points that tremendously made playing WE8 more true to the real matches out there after changing the `response` attributes are:

1. real-life quality positioning of your defense AI
2. no weird dodgings and stupid unreal behavior anymore from your players
3. midfield play
4. even on 6* the game speed is now not horribly fast, but you can control the speed with your style of play and the comp will also not push the speed dramatically since he has less space and less free unmarked players on the pitch
5. the reaction time of your defense at offside traps is top now, as they react in a split second after your button input.
6. very little of these comp-nets-from-any-position situations that was so unreal, left me and other players often just frustrated that no matter what you do or what`s the score in your favorite in the end the comp will do you, which was a real handicap once you were leading in the game (at least when playing brazil they didn`t have any of these chances at the score 2-3)


so maybe some of you serious players out there can try that small change in some matches with just 2 teams or so and tell me what your impression is. i`d really like to know...

 

[L . F . C]

so,
i played around with some constellations of how this `response` attribute works for the different strength level of teams and in regard to the difficulty level 5&6.

first i played a match germany vs. japan (average team assessment). according the current real (in reality) team conditions both teams are above world average with germany experiencing a truly surprising revival with new coach klinsmann (remember when they played a 1-1 against champ brazil some week ago?), so i would have tipped germany having the edge there. after that i played germany vs. brazil to see how it changes when playing against a top team.
for all 3 teams` players i put the `response ` around 88-90. and i played 30min half time on 5* and 6*. here is my conclusion.
if you`re annoyed with your players AI dooming behavior on the pitch, slow motion-like reaction, them stop running and start walking instead of getting on that striker who is just about to cut to the box 2 meters to your right?
all of these things stopped once i made that little manual change. players swiftly respond to my command when i click on them and the defensive AI just improved vastly. now they are intercepting these puny comp through passes (that earlier would have fooled all your defense or worse, that your players would let pass just in front of their eyes) and the team thinking is much better as the AI positioning also went up. due to the latter i now had a nice midfield play (that i missed so much) since the comp cannot just feed his strikers at any given moment as they are often blocked by my defense AI. it all finally looked like a real-life match.
as i played with germany, japan was visibly weaker than brazil of course, but they still created some chances (as long as you don`t take them seriously). it was a very very interessting match and not at all so fast as many of you experienced when playing on 6* (since the pass ways are really getting less with the improved AI positioning). i only managed to win 2-0 (despite being one of these players who still think 6* is not enough). the second game against brazil was awesome. brazil was slightly better, since they really have the better individual players (again, as in reality), but still, the comp now clearly had problems creating runways for the strikers (they only had 3 big chances in the first half, one of which ronaldo netted with a beautiful lob over kahn). i even lost a defender when i brought down ronaldo as he was about to get away (i was the last man) to a red card. i still won 3-2, but brazil was just better, they outshot me in the second half (34-13), and pressing was very tough from them (often i had to pass the ball around on my half just as not to lose it and be in danger of another fast ronaldo run). when being down to 10men i had big trouble creating just a single simple attack as their positioning and reaction really went up due to my previous change. i only got back into play when r.carlos was sent off.

so the points that tremendously made playing WE8 more true to the real matches out there after changing the `response` attributes are:

1. real-life quality positioning of your defense AI
2. no weird dodgings and stupid unreal behavior anymore from your players
3. midfield play
4. even on 6* the game speed is now not horribly fast, but you can control the speed with your style of play and the comp will also not push the speed dramatically since he has less space and less free unmarked players on the pitch
5. the reaction time of your defense at offside traps is top now, as they react in a split second after your button input.
6. very little of these comp-nets-from-any-position situations that was so unreal, left me and other players often just frustrated that no matter what you do or what`s the score in your favorite in the end the comp will do you, which was a real handicap once you were leading in the game (at least when playing brazil they didn`t have any of these chances at the score 2-3)


so maybe some of you serious players out there can try that small change in some matches with just 2 teams or so and tell me what your impression is. i`d really like to know...

I'll definately use that bit of advise if it isn't fixed in pes4(PS2)

 

[bonk]

but sadly...

...you can`t take advantage of this helpful change in the ML (yeah, since all the stats will switch to default), which for many out there is surely the most addictive feature of WE8. so for the time being i started changing the `response` stats of all the national teams` players and refrain from playing the ML at all (i don`t want to smash my pad nr.6 which i just bought yesterday). at least i`ll be happy playing a league and the cups and hopefully konami will stick their heads together and fix the embarassing default defense AI in PES4.

 

[Nturtle]

Aw....yeah..I know what you mean bonk...ML is the fun part...but since it switches to default....mmmm....it didn't even do that with WE7i...at least the edited stuff appeared when you started a new ML. *sigh*

I ONLY play the ML at the moment...but maybe I should try these national cup thingys....

Can you advise...so crappy teams....response maybe 80-85? Better teams say 85-95?

 

[bonk]

Can you advise...so crappy teams....response maybe 80-85? Better teams say 85-95?[/QUOTE]


eeer,
i would put everybody`s response to around 90. the thing is that at 90 the basic players (no matter how weak the team is) just react authentic, namely in a splitsecond. so whether he will, say, get to the ball earlier than another player from a top team or handle the ball properly and be able to create chances against better teams, that will depend on other skills than the `response` attribute. and for me that`s what the crucial difference with individual skills is between a star player and an average player. the better `response` alone won`t put a weaker team on the same performing level as a top team.
besides, when there will come a day that you are so skilled and playing with top teams just won`t do it anymore you will consider the challenge to play with weak teams against world`s best teams. and then you`d wish you`d put the weaker team`s players response to 90 as well.
i just played with japan against argentina and it was very intriguing, as they were clearly on another individual level than my kickers but it was really interesting to fight the odds and try to play as a team rather than individually and in this way keep up with the south americans. and all that without the f****ng jerks and spasticism from my defense (what a bliss).
i lost 1-3 (argentina`s pressing is monstrous, if you play with a weaker team) but in the end i could at times really compete with them, i just trashed my few decisive chances. well, but as in real football, that then is the difference between the best and the average squads. top teams can play crap for 89min and kick you butt in the 90th min or in losttime with their single big chance of the game and get away with it. oh, of course i played 6*.

so i just say why don`t you just try it with two teams and play a match between them. maybe even 3 teams like i did, just to see the difference when playing a weak team and an even team.

but basically there is little difference (so i felt) between 85 and 90. with 80 and 90 there would be a visible consequence on the pitch though. i think 95 is a bit too high. i would only use 95 for the few world class defenders (like samuel, nesta, stam, lucio ect.)....

 

[BAAD]

Hi Guys as you all seem to be experts at Master league on WE8, maybe you can help me on my problem on how to get the classic players in master league transfers.. thsy are already unlocked and in English etc... - cheers [/QUOTE]

 

[Nturtle]

Um...BAAD....try the master league thread.. ANYWAY...the classic players should come back as young players after a season or two...so you can;t put them into your team in ML.


bonk...invaluable advice again!! OK...will try the response changing to a high level!!