What do you see wrong with pes08?

[john4]

yea that angles terrible..yes i do admit the moves and skill play r very slick in this version..i love megging the opponents n such...but omg...these goalies are terrrible!!!!!!!!! why is it so easy 4 me 2 play on top player? i just beat portugal with brazil 6-2...like nothing...

try playing like arsenal,passing move,fluent play,if i just give it to ronaldinho i can easily just run through defences but thats shit,i just try to score good goals,specially since its exhibition and naff all is at stake

funny goal btw,thats not happened to me yet

 

[sPideS]

What I see wrong is that they haven't got Petr Cech with headgear on. I hope they make it so he does in the proper release

 

[PacMan]

Another year goes by, and....

Well, don't get me wrong, I love PES and have been playing since the good old PlayStation 1 days. I always feel new PES's are "weird" at first, but I always know I'll end up loving them. Well, PES 2008 is round the corner and I can safely say now that PES 6 was NOT an improvement over PES 5. I don't think I'm getting old and conservative because it's not that I didn't like it because it "changed too much", but because it changed too little! While playing PES 6 this year, I simply realized I'm finally tired of playing the same game over and over again.

Now I don't expect Seabass and their people to do crappy FIFA-ish re-workings of the entire engine every year, but c'mon, enough is enough, and refining without changing for too long leads to stagnation. This engine, the very gameplay plan, was revolutionary and realistic for years, but it's showing signs of decadence that I think are logical and inevitable. Maybe Seabass should take a hike and leave someone younger, maybe he should change his team, I don't know, but the fact is that they have not INNOVATED since PES 3 or 4.

I didn't expect PES 2008 to be perfect or revolutionary, but I did expect it to have new problems (and new goodies), not the same old ones. I know many will not like what I have said so far and what I'm going to say now, and it hurts me to say it, too (curious, huh?), but remember that amazing feeling of awe you had when you were a FIFA player and saw two of your friends playing PES for the same time? Well, I kinda had it watching people play next-gen FIFA. Man, that game is such a complete leap forward from its PC version, and it offers something new and refreshing. It's a really hard and challenging game, very slow paced (and I don't mean just the game speed), in which passing is everything, defending is easier than attacking, setting up a scoring situation is difficult and generally only achieved through team play, skill moves are impressive yet only useful in precise circumstances with precise players, etc etc.

Fifa's not perfect by a long shot, there are many things in which PES is better, particularly player differentiation, but it's getting there --and fast. Seabass could take a hint or two from the ex-KONAMI people working for EA, because lately PES is too fast and too focused on running like crazy with the ball. That coupled with engine "tweakings" to make the game more challenging (long passes, keepers, cheating, etc) make for a much more unpleasant experience than, say, PES 2, and reminds me of infamous earlier FIFAs.

Should I be worried about the arcadeish taint of the latest PES and realism of simulation in the latest FIFA? What's going on here??

EDIT: I almost forget the one thing that really annoys me about PES 2008 and PES 6: your teammates are downright idiotic. Why do they find it so hard to move into space? They are always right behind the defenders for christ sake, they could position themselves well in PlayStation 1, in PES 3, in PES 4, so why can't they do it now? It's another thing to make the game more difficult than it should be. Why? Because if they didn't hinder the game like that, we would be winning every game 11-0.

 

[murc]

Nah, Pacman... what you're saying is probably going to be the normal reaction of people who are no longer blinded by the PES light. The people who like it will continue to say that it keeps on surpassing itself year after year. But, the select few who really want a down to earth SIMULATION of football will keep on defying them and talking smack the developers who have apparently lost touch with the simulation factor and have resorted to laziness. There are too many small but fixable things wrong, most of which are mentioned in this thread, to really make these new iterations as great as the older ones.

 

[PacMan]

I guess you're right murc, and the sad thing is that this year's rainy days I'm gonna be stuck only with PES because next-gen FIFA is only released on Xbox and PS3. That is not to say that I'll not have fun with PES 2008, but it had never happened to me before PES 6 that I quit playing the game for weeks out of pure boredom. That ought to tell you something, right? I'm considering reinstalling PES 5, as I had so much fun with it, even when PES 6 was already released.

I'm just pissed at EA because they're not releasing the next gen version for PC, and pissed at KONAMI for releasing PES 6 with new graphics. Teamvision? Yeah, right. Is that why, when I hold the ball in midfield for more than a few seconds, I find there is NOT ONE team mate unmarked? That's some AI, and quite an accurate depiction of real football. I know, I'll try a high pass! Oh, right, those never work because my team mates have no reaction. Yeah, that is why that 2,20 meter-tall defender with 75 speed gets to the ball before Tévez, even though when I sent the high pass, they were almost on the same spot.

I hope Seabass is not going the EA way of putting fancy names for things that aren't really there.

And that thing of repeatedly scoring corners by making it bounce off the keeper... Jesus, that is so FIFA 2000.

PES 2009 is going to have to be waaay better than this. Or better put, not better, just DIFFERENT! TAKE RISKS, SEABASS! If you keep doing this, you'll lose the customer base anyway, so why wait for decadence when you can try to innovate?

 

[MatTheCat]

Teamvision? Yeah, right. Is that why, when I hold the ball in midfield for more than a few seconds, I find there is NOT ONE team mate unmarked? That's some AI, and quite an accurate depiction of real football. I know, I'll try a high pass! Oh, right, those never work because my team mates have no reaction. Yeah, that is why that 2,20 meter-tall defender with 75 speed gets to the ball before Tévez, even though when I sent the high pass, they were almost on the same spot.

Yup...

That is how Teamvision works......it lets you play for a bit...then clamps down on all options forcing you do try the unsual approach....(pretty difficult at times given the only reliable way of moving the ball about is short passes to feet) or switch your formation.

Honestly....'Switching Formation' is the way to go AND IT WORKS...play with two formations....a centre attacking one and a wide one with LWF and RWF. When one set of options get snuffed out....switch to the other formation and find yourself with lots of room for the next few attacks before u get shut down and need to change back to original formation.

P.S. In Demo, u cant set alternative formations to easily switch during game.....but try ti by just going into formation settings.

 

[Jake Small]

Another year, another tide of loud complaining, another hugely improved game. PES6 was miles better than PES5, too. This from someone who plays a hell of a lot of Pro Evo (since 3).. since we are qualifying our authority.. I play mostly with other humans though, and as Murc mentioned earlier, that does make a difference. They've had a few difficulties with AI over the years and I can see someone getting frustrated with the computer.

 

[Jake Small]

Nah, Pacman... what you're saying is probably going to be the normal reaction of people who are no longer blinded by the PES light. The people who like it will continue to say that it keeps on surpassing itself year after year. But, the select few who really want a down to earth SIMULATION of football will keep on defying them and talking smack the developers who have apparently lost touch with the simulation factor and have resorted to laziness. There are too many small but fixable things wrong, most of which are mentioned in this thread, to really make these new iterations as great as the older ones.

You quit two years ago. Maybe it's you and not the game?

Don't you like PRO EVO FOUR better than 5, for godsakes? That pretty much disqualifies your opinion right there.


Secondly I don't think you know a lick about game design. It's pretty easy to sit back and say geez, they must not have worked very hard on this game because it's not exactly perfect in some way. Seabass had a HUGE team working on it this time, and in interviews has said it was a hell of a lot of work. I guess in your view they didn't spend enough of that time toward making sure murc personally does not get frustrated ever when things do not go his way.

EDIT: I almost forget the one thing that really annoys me about PES 2008 and PES 6: your teammates are downright idiotic. Why do they find it so hard to move into space? They are always right behind the defenders for christ sake, they could position themselves well in PlayStation 1, in PES 3, in PES 4, so why can't they do it now? It's another thing to make the game more difficult than it should be. Why? Because if they didn't hinder the game like that, we would be winning every game 11-0.

There are many people on this forum who pretty much do win every game in Pro Evo 6 by a huge margin, me included. If you think it is too hard, play on a lower difficulty, or come here and ask for help instead of bitching that things should be changed.

Teamvision? Yeah, right. Is that why, when I hold the ball in midfield for more than a few seconds, I find there is NOT ONE team mate unmarked? That's some AI, and quite an accurate depiction of real football. I know, I'll try a high pass! Oh, right, those never work because my team mates have no reaction. Yeah, that is why that 2,20 meter-tall defender with 75 speed gets to the ball before Tévez, even though when I sent the high pass, they were almost on the same spot.

The reason why is because you aren't good at the game.


I think too many people think "Oh accurate sim football!" and then think that they are going to play it and their own team is going to play like a real team in real life without them doing anything, and they'll just have to make the appropriate pass or shot now and then once their real life-like team gets themselves into position. Pro Evo is not and never has been like that. You have to learn to play it realistically, you have to learn to get players into the correct positions with proper formations and runs. If you are finding too many people stationary, you didn't build your attack properly: try using L1 passes to send a couple people on runs before proceeding with the play.

It's not going to look like a real football match if you don't know what the hell you are doing.

 

[john4]

id also like to add about that last quote
"Oh, right, those never work because my team mates have no reaction. Yeah, that is why that 2,20 meter-tall defender with 75 speed gets to the ball before Tévez, even though when I sent the high pass, they were almost on the same spot."

play the demo and you will see this no longer happens,slow defenders magically keeping pace with henry.on the demo im usually portugal,i play the very tall fernando meira for set plays,hes great upfront and at the back,but leave him chasing just about anyone with a sniff of pace and your well and truly pucked.

i think the BIG time moaners and complainers need to go out and play some real football,remember what its about,dont use the fact its cold or raining as an excuse,in fact rain is the best time to play,great for slide tackles,one of the best bits about footie.so dont play the game if its that "stale" but dont take time outta your busy schedule to come on here and slate it,juts go play something else or actually play some footie.

 

[murc]

Secondly, I don't think you know a lick about game design.

Well, you're right. I don't. That's why I pay money for products made by people who do. You'd think that they'd notice these silly little quirks and phase them out upon release. I GUESS NOT THOUGH, BAH.

 

[MatTheCat]

SNIPPED BOULDERASH!!!
[/b]

First Thing....PES4 was perhaps the WORST PES of all time.....Lobbed 1-1's??? Ease of dribbling......EASY CUT-BACKS........scores of 12-7 in 10 min games being regular amongst those who knew how to exploit this uber-lame game.

PES6 was also terrible as a result of the excessive AI interference in the flow of the game........some people call this 'bad luck' simulation, I call it 'tilted pitch' AI. Whatever, this was the very first ProEV where a NOOOOOOOB could get a result over a Veteran due to the AI favouring his team........VERYNOTGOODBADPES.....BINNED b4 XMAS!!!

I dont think for a minute the guy is complaining cos he cant play the game.....he is whining about the ever-perpetual short-falls in the AI......and after 6 years of being duped into buying the same game time and time again....I woudl say he may have a right to feel sour.

 

[Jake Small]

I agree fully about PES4 being the worst, that's what I meant when I brought it up.

Shrug, I see quite a few improvements in 6 but I suppose the AI is more prevalent so you might have a point there.

 

[PacMan]

Wow. I criticise the game and some people come up with my crappy PES skills, as if I were complaining because I cannot win a game. How narrow minded and rude you can prove to be.

First of all, Jake Small, I play mostly with the AI, and that's why I would like the AI to be good. Maybe PES is sublime to play with a friend (actually, it is), but I also do a lot of Master League and the such, and I would like to see improvements there.

john4, maybe I don't usually wait till it rains before going out to play footie. Usually it's the opposite. And I love PES and want it to be the best around, so I voice my concerns. I'm sorry if my sarcastic comments about the game offended you, as I really don't see why they should. Are you related to Seabass or something? It's just a game, and when I see something I don't like, I moan.

Now back to Jake Small:
1) Mate, I DO win almost every game with the Master League original team against the AI, but so what? Shouldn't I give my opinion on something improvable just because I can win? The fact that I win doesn't take away the fact that many times the AI can get bloddy frustrating to deal with, or the fact that I had more fun winning in earlier versions.
I don't mean to say that they should modify the game to be EASIER, only to modify it to be difficult in the right way, not by putting a rocket up the keepers arse, or making bounces go where the ball is needed by the opposing team. That got old somewhere back in 2004.

2) Well, actually I am aware Teamvision should do that with the CPU's defense, but why don't my team mates do something about it? Oh, right, they just went out of their way to program a marvellous AI for the defense, but what about the player's team mates? Changing tactics does work, but I still think my guys should be able to realize that they're being pinned down every single time. And Teamvision cannot explain the fact that they still can't intelligently run into space many times.
Oh, and I know how to make them run. I use programmable tactics to make those bastards run for it down the wings or the center, and when I need a lot of people up, I do the L1 pass, or the common pass and then keep pressed R2. But in you narrow view you automatically thought COMPLAINTS = BAD GAMER. You just cannot accept the fact that PES is very, very improvable.

And when you say PES was never like that, you're wrong, in PlayStation 1 it was. Yes, your team mates got into position and actually did the effort to run into space. Crazy, huh? I don't expect the CPU to play for me, I just don't expect my team mates to play AGAINST me, for christ's sake. Of course, you who have proved your authority (how solemn!) don't know that, because you never played PES 2, or Winning eleven 3, 4 or 2000.

OK, one last thing for john4: you say something like, "if I just give it to Ronaldinho I can easily run through the defences..." Well, that's one example of what's wrong with PES nowadays, it shouldn't be a matter of wanting to or not. You SHOULDN'T be able to do it, except for very rare occasions. If I it comes to choice, then we could all play FIFA 07, after all, all we would have to do is not exploit the game's weaknesses and only use the features that are realistic. Come on...

On a last note, thanks to Mat who got my meaning. I'm not attacking you, but this game needs some stirring, and true PES fans will recognize that.

 

[aslangsli]

Before critisizing the game, one should declare that s/h is a pes fan and has been playin game for long time. Otherwise, many people begin attacking on you. Anyway, this is my fifth day of demo,I played dozens of matches. I change my mind, but I dont know why??? It is because the new PES's charm, or lack of alternatives. (I tried FIFA, it is quite good but something is missing that I dont know. Sensible Soccer is not alternative but totally different gaming experience.) Yep, I grasped Teamvision is really works many times, CPU moves cleverly. Individual skills works well and CPU 's style; in which they focus on talented guy and organize their tactics according to him (just play against Portugal, you notice that Ronaldo is the main figure that CPU organize the team accordingly), is great. It is great to see that in many times, CPU is searching the best option. You really control over your player much much better than PES 6. This is the positive side of course. Then, I re think about the game with its whole features. I know we will see the final release without updated squads, without any atmospheric chants, with the flags in staduims looked like created since C64 times, lack of tournuments, teams; ugly interface. It is impossible for me to understand why Seabass and his friends try to complete the game with its whole features. Every product of them is just unfinished ones. I have really not to much time to play games. ( I am 30 year old and I am an architect.) When I see the unfinished product of PES, my appetite is stopped. I am bored with the laziness of Seabass and his team. Because, they dont care the gamers and their opinions on PES. Additionally, I believe, Seabass has not watched any European foot match for for a long time. Anyway, I will wait the final release with less excitement.

 

[waylando]

Heres a list of old errors never corrected:
1. the teammates being too stupid that they cant do any intelligent forward runs. if you pass the ball with L1, 90% of the cases they get stuck in offside position.
2. The fact that every CPU player in the DMF position becomes automatically in some sort of a Vieira-Gatusso-Dunga hybrid. Really; last time I was playing against argentina and they lost Mascherano (red card) so they put Crespo as a DMF (the AI, losing, put 3 FW and ran out of subs). The guy did great in that position. Thats bulls$$$T
3. Dont you hate being in control of the ball with your midfielder, and then comes the AI "number 9" like a train, from behind, taking the ball away from you? ALL AI teams do that, and since PES4
4. Or what about when you have a clear shot, and some defender steps you off, and the ball bounces like a pinball and comes directly to the opposition??
5. This is a new feature: the GK in this game are the worst in the PES history: they are so buggy that seem to be from the other team!

I could go on, but what for? Konami has proven that they're not gonna correct this flaws; they are just gonna put some nicer graphics, players running like retards (but very very fast) and rock songs tagged ala Need for Speed. I really hope this demo version gets revised before the official launch.

cheers

 

[Jake Small]

Wow. I criticise the game and some people come up with my crappy PES skills, as if I were complaining because I cannot win a game. How narrow minded and rude you can prove to be.

-

Now back to Jake Small:
1) Mate, I DO win almost every game with the Master League original team against the AI, but so what? Shouldn't I give my opinion on something improvable just because I can win? The fact that I win doesn't take away the fact that many times the AI can get bloddy frustrating to deal with, or the fact that I had more fun winning in earlier versions.
I don't mean to say that they should modify the game to be EASIER, only to modify it to be difficult in the right way, not by putting a rocket up the keepers arse, or making bounces go where the ball is needed by the opposing team. That got old somewhere back in 2004.

I agree that the game needs improving in ways, but I also think that people would rather complain than improve themselves and learn the game's subtleties. I think you are exaggerating how good you are at the game in order to try to bolster your opinion here. Simply put, you are definitely not great at the game (which is fine by me) judging by the complaints that you have, because they have solutions outside of Konami taking effort to program things better for you personally. Nobody who is good at the game complains about their team mates "standing around", because they understand how to initiate runs, both in game and in the formation planning. Nobody who is good at the game complains about having to rocket the keeper or score from a lucky bounce, because they know how to score all types of goals. Nobody who is good at the game complains about their high passes missing the mark due to supposedly poor team mate reaction. NOBODY who is good at the game says things like:

It's another thing to make the game more difficult than it should be. Why? Because if they didn't hinder the game like that, we would be winning every game 11-0

...because they all think the game is way too easy and would welcome anything to make it harder.

I'm sorry, I don't personally care if you are good at the game or not but most of your complaining can be solved with simple practice.

I agree that PES is very improvable. I also think that they do a fantastic job every year, and that 5 was miles ahead of 4, and 6 miles ahead of 5.

In a few weeks, half of the complainers will disappear because they'll have learned what they were doing wrong. A few 'lifers' like murc will still be hanging around to slate the game and harken us back to the supposed "glory days" of PES, whether it be PES 4, PES 5, PES 3... but make no mistake, those games weren't any more realistic, and Konami didn't have some different philosophy or a better work ethic back then, and the game engine was not magically perfected in some miraculous convergence of happenstance... it's just the last time they were able to perform the way they wanted to in the game.

 

[Jake Small]

Heres a list of old errors never corrected:
1. the teammates being too stupid that they cant do any intelligent forward runs. if you pass the ball with L1, 90% of the cases they get stuck in offside position.

I'm guessing your style is to pass it all the way forward until you hit their back line then hope that your team mate makes some magic run through the D line and get frustrated when he doesn't. Of course an L1 pass will put him offside. You told him to run offside.

I do wish they'd implement something where you can create a run, or tell someone to make an angled run, though.

2. The fact that every CPU player in the DMF position becomes automatically in some sort of a Vieira-Gatusso-Dunga hybrid. Really; last time I was playing against argentina and they lost Mascherano (red card) so they put Crespo as a DMF (the AI, losing, put 3 FW and ran out of subs). The guy did great in that position. Thats bulls$$$T

Well to be fair, Konami have been correcting this phenomenon BIG TIME through PES4 > 5, and then to 6. Body size and shape matter WAY MORE than before, and bigger players like Vieira are fantastic in DMF positions because they can win those bouncey balls and push people around to destabilize attacks. I would love to play somebody who played Crespo as a DMF! His defense rating is poor, which means he cannot tackle effectively, his attack rating is high, which means he gets too far forward. If this guy played great against you as a DMF you may need to stop holding turbo...

3. Dont you hate being in control of the ball with your midfielder, and then comes the AI "number 9" like a train, from behind, taking the ball away from you? ALL AI teams do that, and since PES4

What is wrong with that anyway?? That happens all the time in real life. Pass it back before he gets there or play around him. ???

4. Or what about when you have a clear shot, and some defender steps you off, and the ball bounces like a pinball and comes directly to the opposition??

The ball bounce happens according to a physics model. Who the ball bounces to happens according to the formation you play and where you position your players. If you play proper tactics then you find yourself winning these supposedly 'lucky' bounces... Just try not to drag your midfielders all out of position, or play some zone pressing, whatever: there are lots of ways to help you win the fallout from confrontations.

Besides, it's pretty understandable that after a defender having TACKLED a player in his OWN BOX the ball would bounce to a friendly player, no??

 

[MatTheCat]

First of all, Jake Small, I play mostly with the AI, and that's why I would like the AI to be good. Maybe PES is sublime to play with a friend (actually, it is), but I also do a lot of Master League and the such, and I would like to see improvements there.
.

What makes you think the AI interferes with 2 player any different? I cant say for sure with PES2008, but certainly with PES6, and also PES5 to an extent the AI tampered with the 'Scripting' of 2 player games until the point that it became quite unbearable to play....(like I said...BINNED B4 XMAS). At end of day, there are 20 players on the park under AI control at any one time, not forgetting that the AI can often decide for you when your passing is going to go astray..... (I hope to god they have toned this down drastically for 2 player PES2008)

Nobody who is good at the game complains about their high passes missing the mark due to supposedly poor team mate reaction. NOBODY who is good at the game says things like:

Go and play FIFA 2008 on 360 Jake Small. Right from kick off, start knocking the ball around with the high pass button. Notice the way that the ball goes towards the players you are aiming it at, notice the way your players react to get their bodies in front of that ball, notice the control that you as the gamer has, over the precise way in which they control that ball. Notice this, and then notice the vastly much more realistic outfield gameplay that occurs in FIFA. Come back to ProEvo and try to do the same creative interesting play......you cant, cos it cant be done.....all you can do on Pro-Ev is shitty little passes to feet or crossfield high passes from one wing to the next. The outfield aspect of the gameplay in ProEv is beginning to look so dated and so limited. I dont think you can turn around to anyone complaining about these things and tell them you are only moaning cos your shit. Maybe there only moaning because they would dearly love to play nice interesting football instead of playing the way the game forces people to play (if they want to win).

As Pacman says, PES2008 is still a better game than FIFA due to FIFA lacking that certain something (lack of responsiveness, lack of adventure in final 1/3rd of park.....dead shooting system etc). But that dont mean that by today's standards that PES2008 can be considered as 'Great', cos its not.......it just still happens to be the most playable footie game due to lack of competition.

 

[Singey]

I havn't actually got my PS3 yet so I cant judge whether this is the same in the demo, but in all the matches ive watched online, the whistle blows every time you score, sometimes before the ball even crosses the line. Its stupid, i've only ever seen referees do that in reality on rare occasions, and even when they do its about 5 or 10 seconds after the goal to tell the players to hurry up and restart. Its something that will annoy me because it seems to be happening every single time.

 

[lfcboy]

Well I just saw a video of the actual gameplay and it was pretty dissapointing. As stated by so many people, the improvments if any are minor. Over the time of one year, everything has changed, Fifa is now the beautiful game with realistic gameplay and PES is turned into an arcade game. The players in PES move so fast and sets up for an unrealistic game. I am also furstrateda at Konami for the amount of game modes. Online play is on 2v2 and Master League. So if we are judging by gameplay, Fifa wins. If we are judging by overall game, Fifa is ahead by a mile.