PES09, Time is catching up..

[Amateur]

PES, the game that Used to be for the hardcore Football fan, the game that was all about the Gameplay, the game we all loved.. What happened to PES?? What happened with Konami?

I still remember the days when PES used to have a System of 29 Stats and 23 Special Abilities -whereas- FIFA had a Total of 22 Stats and No Traits or Special Abilities.

This was back in 2004, back when PES was lightyears ahead of FIFA -back- when Konami used to care.

So, where are we Now?? Has PES progressed at all since 2004?? There was PES4 -then- came PES5 wich was the Tweaked more Defensive and Realistic version of PES4 -and- after PES5, things started going downhill..

PES6 proved to be a slightly Tweaked version of PES5, but with the slight Tweaks taking away what made PES5 The best Football Sim I have played. In other words, while remaining fun and Addictive -PES6- turned PES5 into more of an Arcade game..

Everything was easier, you could create Goals from nothing whenever you felt like it -whereas- scoring "Realistic" looking Goals was actually harder than pulling off the usual Individual run with a Goal as the end product. PES6 is full of Flaws and haves plenty of room to improve, it's very far from what a proper Football Sim should be. In fact, PES5 was better in Most Aspects.

Wich leads mo to ask the same question again, Where are we Now?? PES09, already recognized as the PES5 with good Graphics. Is there any real progress? Is this bad?? Well, following the Disappointment that PES08 proved to be -anything- would be welcomed, and a PES5 with great Graphics sounds awesome.

But, Is this anything "truly" Positive?? From some Perspectives it is Positive as it means we will get a good Football Sim with good Graphics, wich would be a 1st in a Football Title. But the Inevitable question is, Where are Konami heading?? Do they have any Idea of How to get past the PES5 boundary?

It seems they are out of Ideas, they have gone back to their Best Version of the Series after taking a few Steps Backwards for the last couple of years -and- after almost 5 Years Konami are still using the same Exact number of Stats and Special Abilities -whereas- FIFA already haves a Total of 36 Stats and 14 Traits.

That's How things stand Now, Konami has been relying on a good product for the past couple of years -and- they have grabbed on to that product for so Long.. that they don't seem to have any "Revolutionary" Ideas left.

FIFA had a Total of 22 Stats back in 2004 -and- they have drastically Improved over the years, already having 36 Stats and 14 Traits ("Special Abilities") in FIFA08 -and- David Rutter already stated that FIFA09 will feature even more New Player Attributes.

On the other hand, PES had a Total of 29 Stats and 23 Special Abilities back in 2004 -and- 4 Years later, Konami still uses the same exact System of 29 Stats and 23 Special Abilities.

FIFA has already caught up with PES in the Stats department -and- they are Improving on their Gameplay as we speak.. So with that said, Is Konami even trying anymore?? Is that the best they can do After 2 years??

It was OBVIOUS since PES5 that the PES Series needed to Elaborate on their Stats and Special Abilities, it was Obvious that the Graphics needed to improve -and- it was even more Obvious that if Konami kept hanging on to PES5 -FIFA- would eventually caught up.

That's where we are Now, FIFA has caught up.. and Konami seems out of Ideas.

If Konami does Not starts to listen to their Fans right NOW -they- will No Doubt be forgotten as FIFA already haves the Licenses -and- seemingly is Improving on their Gameplay, and more Importantly haves a healthy relationship with their Fans.

EA Sports are listening and Interacting with their Fans, there are No secrets there, and that is Evident in their Consistent Improvement.

If Konami doesn't follows that example, then it's Game Over for the PES Series. It's time for Konami to respond to their fan's Peticions, to their Ideas, etc, etc.. FIFA is still slightly behind PES5, but NOT for long.

Seabass and Co. it's time to listen..

 

[nikicampos]

I just read your first paragraph and couldn't keep reading, so stupid, the game hasn't even come up and you are already saying what has happened to Konami after one regular year, 2008, that in my opinion wasn't a good game but still beat Fifa 08.

Please only happy wishes for Konami right now, if Konami doesn't deliver a good game, then say whatever you anti-PES people want.

 

[Amateur]

I just read your first paragraph and couldn't keep reading, so stupid, the game hasn't even come up and you are already saying what has happened to Konami after one regular year, 2008, that in my opinion wasn't a good game but still beat Fifa 08.

Please only happy wishes for Konami right now, if Konami doesn't deliver a good game, then say whatever you anti-PES people want.

Fuck Off!! you Loser.. whatever. It's my fucking Opinion.

 

[michelfrissen]

I couldn't agree more, but let's just wait for the game to come out and then judge it..

 

[Amateur]

I couldn't agree more, but let's just wait for the game to come out and then judge it..

I think you people are misunderstanding me here.. I'm Not saying PES09 will be bad, Not at all. In fact, I'm looking forwards to PES09.. PES5 with good Graphics, that sounds awesome.

However, what I wanted to make clear is that PES08 is still using the same System of Stats and Special Abilities as PES4 -and- PES09 will keep going the same way. So what I'm trying to say is, Where to after PES09??

We cannot keep playing PES5 forever.. and FIFA has already caught up in terms of Stats -and- FIFA09 will have (Include) even more New Stats (Player Attributes).

So what I'm saying is that Konami should start Listening and Interacting with their Fans -because- right now we Don't know shit about PES09. We only know that PES09 will play like PES5.

And again, this place is full of Good Ideas -and- Konami doesn't seems to care about what their most hardcore Fans want. They seem to be satisfied with Re-Introducing Old games time after time -and- Unfortunately the Fanboys are always satisfied with the same games. There's just NO Progress at all.

 

[shaun7]

I know what you're saying and you're right. The stats definately need to improve and needs more different stats. Pes 5 with better graphics sounds 100* times better than 08 but still the stats need more work especially considering it's next gen not ps2 days. It can support much more. Look at the new and much improved things in GTA IV. That's an improvement. Why can't konami improve like that. Gameplay is already much better in 09 (looking at videos) but it needs more work like special abilities and stats.

 

[michelfrissen]

In my opinion if they fix last years game (to much mistakes by goalkeepers, defenders running away all of a sudden, ghost players --> instead of body's coliding they go trough each other, slow down, animations running not smooth, bad looking crowd, more realistic gameplay --> like pes 5 was) we'll have a great game that will be fun to play again. For now that's all we need I think. I agree with you that for next years versions they have to evolve, but before you can evolve you need some stability first. PES 2009 will be a stabile version from where Konami can evolve the game the coming years.

So PES 2010 should be the game where we may expect to see the evolution again. Not gameplay wise, because I believe pes 2009 will have a tight gameplay again. But things they can improve after 2009 are stats (like you pointed out), animations, features and options, directions (from 16 directions to 32 directions), online play (10 vs 10), more options in edit mode, more licenses, more options in master league, etc. etc. you name it...

 

[Amateur]

I know what you're saying and you're right. The stats definately need to improve and needs more different stats. Pes 5 with better graphics sounds 100* times better than 08 but still the stats need more work especially considering it's next gen not ps2 days. It can support much more. Look at the new and much improved things in GTA IV. That's an improvement. Why can't konami improve like that. Gameplay is already much better in 09 (looking at videos) but it needs more work like special abilities and stats.

Just consider the FACTS in this Thread:

From 2004 to 2008 -FIFA- has gone from having a Total of 22 Stats and NO Traits or Special Abilities (in 2004) -to- having a Total of 36 Stats and 14 Traits in 2008. David Rutter (producer of FIFA) has already confirmed that FIFA09 will feature "New Player Attributes" on Top of those 36 Stats.

On the other hand, Konami's PES has virtually remained the SAME for the Past 4 years (2004 to 2008), with no Improvement to their Old Gen System of 29 Stats and 23 Special Abilities. From what it's been said, PES09 will work with the same Old 29 Stats and 23 Special Abilities.

If Konami keep up with the same Attitude, they will lose the battle.

 

[Amateur]

In my opinion if they fix last years game (to much mistakes by goalkeepers, defenders running away all of a sudden, ghost players --> instead of body's coliding they go trough each other, slow down, animations running not smooth, bad looking crowd, more realistic gameplay --> like pes 5 was) we'll have a great game that will be fun to play again. For now that's all we need I think. I agree with you that for next years versions they have to evolve, but before you can evolve you need some stability first. PES 2009 will be a stabile version from where Konami can evolve the game the coming years.

So PES 2010 should be the game where we may expect to see the evolution again. Not gameplay wise, because I believe pes 2009 will have a tight gameplay again. But things they can improve after 2009 are stats (like you pointed out), animations, features and options, directions (from 16 directions to 32 directions), online play (10 vs 10), more options in edit mode, more licenses, more options in master league, etc. etc. you name it...

I understand what your saying perfectly.. and That is also How I felt back in PES6. I thought that PES 2008 would be that major leap forwards.. and it turned out that PES08 was actually a Step Back, way Back.

And No, I don't think Konami should lay off the Gameplay -on- the Contrary, I think they must always keep their Gameplay as the Top Priority, and PES5 can Improve a LOT in Gameplay Aspects.

The mere fact that we are still in PES5 -implies- that PES haves a lot to improve in their Gameplay.. with Next Gen Consoles we have much more possibilities, things are very Different Now.

And for as long as Konami keeps "polishing" PES5, we are not going to see a true Next Gen Football Sim -because- PES5 is simply NOT Next Gen, it doesn't matters if it's covered with beautiful Graphics, it still does Not plays like a Next Gen Football Sim should Play.. that's a plain FACT.

Anyways, I just cannot see Konami "evolving" in 2010, it will take longer than that..

 

[RAMAXWY]

the biggest problem is this my friend; the statts should work.
having alot of statts doesn't mean annything when they don't work.
you say FIFA has all these statts but personnaly i don't feel the difference between players and most people who have played the game feel the same way.
so the statts are there for all to see how the player is in real live i guess but in the game it doesn't mean squad.
PES on the other hand has statts that work and you feel them when using the different types of players. you feel you're players making intelligent runs when your playmaker has the ball , you feel the difference in speed when using fast players ,when using good defenders and overall when using a bad team and a good team.
i understand what you mean that PES has not progressed that much and you are right but when u compared it to FIFA that was a mistake.
FIFA has progressed alot and that's true you would have to be blind not to see the progress but when u talk about statts well on FIFA they don't realy matter.
in PES when your player shoots with his weak foot you can feel the difference but in FIFA you can see wich is his weaker foot in the statt but the player doesn't reflect that in the game everyone shoots with both feet.
you just like myself play football in real life so you must understand that when i defend i use most of that knowledge to shut players in the game down .
for example when i have one last defender against a striker i try defending in such a way that he has to use his weaker foot so he isn't that big of a threat and with great effect i might say.
in FIFA this wouldn't matter so yes i wan't more statts in the game but also statts that work an realy mean something.

 

[Amateur]

the biggest problem is this my friend; the statts should work.
having alot of statts doesn't mean annything when they don't work.
you say FIFA has all these statts but personnaly i don't feel the difference between players and most people who have played the game feel the same way.
so the statts are there for all to see how the player is in real live i guess but in the game it doesn't mean squad.
PES on the other hand has statts that work and you feel them when using the different types of players. you feel you're players making intelligent runs when your playmaker has the ball , you feel the difference in speed when using fast players ,when using good defenders and overall when using a bad team and a good team.
i understand what you mean that PES has not progressed that much and you are right but when u compared it to FIFA that was a mistake.
FIFA has progressed alot and that's true you would have to be blind not to see the progress but when u talk about statts well on FIFA they don't realy matter.
in PES when your player shoots with his weak foot you can feel the difference but in FIFA you can see wich is his weaker foot in the statt but the player doesn't reflect that in the game everyone shoots with both feet.
you just like myself play football in real life so you must understand that when i defend i use most of that knowledge to shut players in the game down .
for example when i have one last defender against a striker i try defending in such a way that he has to use his weaker foot so he isn't that big of a threat and with great effect i might say.
in FIFA this wouldn't matter so yes i wan't more statts in the game but also statts that work an realy mean something.

I agree with you 100%, but.. at least FIFA "shows" they are making an effort.

I mean, How cool would it be if Konami took the Old Gen; Dribbling Accuracy, Dribbling Speed, and Technique Stats -and- Elaborated them into Stats such as; Cutting the Ball Ability, Shielding the Ball Ability, Body Feints, Explosiveness, Step Overs, Roulette, Dribbling Technique, and Dribbling Accuracy..

We would see further Differences between players, and Next Gen Consoles are more than Capable of that. If Konami Knows how to use Stats wisely -then- they should take advantage of that and Include even more Stats in the game -so- that we can see and Feel more Differences between players.

A better System of Stats and Special Abilities is the Foundation to a better game, a Next Gen game.

 

[CRISSGRAN]

You know what I love? This is only Konami's second REAL try at making a PES game on a next gen console as PES 6 was just a rushed port. How many FIFA based games did EA sports release on a next gen console before apparently getting it right this year? Lets think shall we... Fifa Road to World Cup 06, 2006 World Cup, Fifa 07, Fifa 08, Euro 08, and now we're at Fifa 09. So when you count up the attempts, I'd say Konami have a few more trys left at making a perfect PES game on a next gen console, don't you?

 

[Amateur]

You know what I love? This is only Konami's second REAL try at making a PES game on a next gen console as PES 6 was just a rushed port. How many FIFA based games did EA sports release on a next gen console before apparently getting it right this year? Lets think shall we... Fifa Road to World Cup 06, 2006 World Cup, Fifa 07, Fifa 08, Euro 08, and now we're at Fifa 09. So when you count up the attempts, I'd say Konami have a few more trys left at making a perfect PES game on a next gen console, don't you?

Good Point.. and I haven't said I won't buy PES09. In fact, I'm actually looking forwards to PES09 -but- what I'm trying to argue here is that it is time to "see" Significant Improvements.

Not just better Graphics, but also a System of Stats and Special Abilities with more Depth and Substance, better Controls, more Realistic Gameplay, etc, etc.. A version of PES5 with good Graphics is good enough for this coming year.

But Konami really needs to start Listening, Interacting, and Responding to what their Fans want -because- they are not in a very "comfortable" situation.. as you pointed out yourself, FIFA has an advantage in Next Gen Consoles.

And again, we all Know that Konami could Improve their relationship with their Fans. We have sent Peticions, Ideas, etc, etc.. and Not a single reply from Konami.. That must Improve.

 

[shaun7]

Well, Pes 5 can for sure improve a lot in gameplay but the balance between attack and defense was perfect and can't be improved. But passing and dribbling in Pes 5 weren't that good especially dribbling and from what I've seen in the videos the dribbling is much better. I can't comment on the passing because I need to play it first.

 

[nickpring]

Fuck Off!! you Loser.. whatever. It's my fucking Opinion.

Whoa! Calm down.

Overall though, you make some very decent points.

 

[Amateur]

Whoa! Calm down.

Overall though, you make some very decent points.

It really bugs me whenever someone criticizes without even reading the damn Post.. I don't really care about what type of feed back I get, I appreciate them both Negative or Positive comments -but- at least people should read before arguing.

 

[Bež]

Amateur, you need to calm down a bit...Wait for the game to come out then we can see whether Fifa or Pes is better this year.

While you do make some interesting points, I feel you're taking it too seriously. Get both games then you can share your views here which game you think is better.

 

[Amateur]

Well, Pes 5 can for sure improve a lot in gameplay but the balance between attack and defense was perfect and can't be improved. But passing and dribbling in Pes 5 weren't that good especially dribbling and from what I've seen in the videos the dribbling is much better. I can't comment on the passing because I need to play it first.

Just imagine PES5 with a Next Gen system for Dribbling.. it would be awesome. I think that's where Next Gen should be heading, NO more one-dimensional, repetitive; Sliding Tackles, Dribbling Moves, Shooting, etc, etc, etc.. The game could have a more Authentic feeling in each Situation.

But Once again I must say, that in order to get there Konami WILL have to (like it or not) elaborate on their Old system of Stats and Special Abilities.

 

[nickpring]

Just imagine PES5 with a Next Gen system for Dribbling.. it would be awesome. I think that where's Next Gen should be heading, NO more one-dimensional, repetitive; Sliding Tackles, Dribbling Moves, Shooting, etc, etc, etc.. The game could have a more Authentic feeling in each Situation.

But Once again I must say, that in order to get there Konami WILL have to (like it or not) elaborate on their Old system of Stats and Special Abilities.

Totally agree about PES5 man.

 

[Amateur]

Amateur, you need to calm down a bit...Wait for the game to come out then we can see whether Fifa or Pes is better this year.

While you do make some interesting points, I feel you're taking it too seriously. Get both games then you can share your views here which game you think is better.

Maybe I "sound" too serious -but- I can assure you, I'm Not.. maybe I ought to change my approach. Anyways, I just wanted to simply share my Opinions with the rest of you -and- see if you agree or not. Just a different kind of argument instead of the usual Fanboy talk.

And I'm interested to see how much people agree with what I'm trying to say -because- I think we SHOULD be a little more Demanding as Fans. At the very least, we deserve some replies from Konami because honestly -they- don't even seem to care that much.