Is Pes 09 Too Easy?

[zeemeister]

I have to admit PES2009 is wayy to easy. In the ML, default players, top player, very hard. managed to win the EPL by 18 points in my 1st D1 season and the D1 cup with only 1 "A" rated player (Zaki).

It is just to easy to dribble with the likes of Guiterrez and hammer the ball in at the near post. I love playing fast flowing 1 touch football but it is too effective and easy this year. In some cases the defenders track on the touch and go but in general the CPU defends poorly. I miss the low scoring midfield battles ala PES 5 and the lack of innovation is starting to bore me.

I've played Fifa 09 and though being a good game I just couldn't bring myself to buying it ahead of PES and I don't have the money or see the sense to buy both. I might as well holdout till FIFA 10 unless of course Seabass can pull a whammy off like PES3 and restore my faith in what once was the best sport game on the planet.

 

[Amateur]

Is PES09 too easy?

* Run, run, cut the ball, run, pass, tap R2, run, close R2 control, run, pass the ball, tap R2, first touch pass -- Goal!! -- too easy.

* Everyone haves good first touch, which is very unrealistic.

* Everyone haves great dribbling ability, which is also unrealistic.

* We only have the R2 "pass and move" play as the only relevant tactical play.

* The strategies barely have any relevance in-game.

* The Defenders are always running after the ball like fucking retards.

* There's barely any difference in Passing Ability and Accuracy.

* The Passes are far too Assisted by the COM.

* The Manual Passes feel like they can go in only 8 directions.

* The "Momentum Shifts" in a game are still a random thing.

* Too many Goals from Corner Kicks. And when you do score from a CK you never really know WHY. It seems as though the COM decides it.

 

[Dale C.]

Is PES09 too easy?

* Run, run, cut the ball, run, pass, tap R2, run, close R2 control, run, pass the ball, tap R2, first touch pass -- Goal!! -- too easy.

* Everyone haves good first touch, which is very unrealistic.

* Everyone haves great dribbling ability, which is also unrealistic.

* We only have the R2 "pass and move" play as the only relevant tactical play.

* The strategies barely have any relevance in-game.

* The Defenders are always running after the ball like fucking retards.

* There's barely any difference in Passing Ability and Accuracy.

* The Passes are far too Assisted by the COM.

* The Manual Passes feel like they can go in only 8 directions.

* The "Momentum Shifts" in a game are still a random thing.

* Too many Goals from Corner Kicks. And when you do score from a CK you never really know WHY. It seems as though the COM decides it.

Take these two out, and you've got a fairly decent argument.

 

[Amateur]

Take these two out, and you've got a fairly decent argument.

I really don't feel ENOUGH of a difference between a player's:

* Dribbling Skills.

* Shielding Skills.

* First Touch.

* Passing.

Maybe it's just me.. but I just don't feel enough of a difference in those areas.

 

[Dale C.]

:/

I see a massive difference between the Leo Messi's and the Richard Dunne's of PES

I don't see where your coming from on this one man, the first touch and dribbling skills are immensely different when you compare nippy strikers and slow central defenders :/

 

[sandaweches]

:/

I see a massive difference between the Leo Messi's and the Richard Dunne's of PES

I don't see where your coming from on this one man, the first touch and dribbling skills are immensely different when you compare nippy strikers and slow central defenders :/

I do agree that the game is not as hard when compared to earlier pes especially on PS2. but the way the players/ball interact is a little loosy (if that's the right word). Maybe they've done it intentionally to reflect that the ball can go astray alot, but it was annoying in the beginning until getting used to.

In terms of difficulty, I did experience something different. In D2 Cup semifinal game I was up 2-0 in the first 15 minutes and was actually thinking what a crappy team. I was expecting to score two or three more. But then the AI made changes and substitutes very early and all of a sudden I was on the backfoot. The game ended with 2-2! Luckily I thrashed them on the first leg.

In regards to player differences, certainly there is a difference. I had a player on loan an AMF ( i don't recall his name) but his ability to control the ball, dribble pass and shoot are far superior compared to Miranda (which is warming the bench nicely).

Altough it took some time to get used to the game I am only slightly satisfied with the ML version. In previous iterations I used to be glued to the game. This is my first PS3 try and I don't like what they've done to the unassisted, semi-assisted stuff. I really don't know what portion of assisting they are talking about: is it controlling other players, is it the accuracy and direction of the passes/shots. I just like the older controls (ps2).

I also figured out how to defend against the AI. Just shadow the player and "run-into his direction" and you'll steel the ball without a tackle. which sucks in a way, but it works. For more than 10 games, the only goals scored by the AI now are corners, hmmm I wonder why!!??!

 

[l0git3c]

Cheers, l0git3c and Pancho07.

Actually the ML became really more exciting with that. I strongly recommend you to try it!

now i play in Cluj with your rules except this rule

- since it's a Danish team, I have to play with maximum 5 foreigners on the field (I will have then always the majority of Danish players);

because most of Cluj default player is foreign players, and i will keep that trademark

and its more exciting now :happy:

 

[Amateur]

:/

I see a massive difference between the Leo Messi's and the Richard Dunne's of PES

I don't see where your coming from on this one man, the first touch and dribbling skills are immensely different when you compare nippy strikers and slow central defenders :/

I mean between "good" dribblers.. I don't feel enough of a difference between different type of dribblers.

I barely notice any difference between Aguero and Messi, or Ronaldo and Messi. They feel basically identical, they do the same tricks.. I think it's because of the Limited set of Stats.

As for the 1st Touch, I say that because every team is capable of playing quick-passing Barcelona-Style Football. And to do that you need players with good First Touch. And because I can do this with most teams, I think there isn't enough of a difference in first touch.

Don't feel enough of a difference between Barcelona and Inter, Arsenal and Chelsea, Spain and England, etc, etc...

 

[Amateur]

In regards to player differences, certainly there is a difference. I had a player on loan an AMF ( i don't recall his name) but his ability to control the ball, dribble pass and shoot are far superior compared to Miranda (which is warming the bench nicely).

Altough it took some time to get used to the game I am only slightly satisfied with the ML version. In previous iterations I used to be glued to the game. This is my first PS3 try and I don't like what they've done to the unassisted, semi-assisted stuff. I really don't know what portion of assisting they are talking about: is it controlling other players, is it the accuracy and direction of the passes/shots. I just like the older controls (ps2).

I also figured out how to defend against the AI. Just shadow the player and "run-into his direction" and you'll steel the ball without a tackle. which sucks in a way, but it works. For more than 10 games, the only goals scored by the AI now are corners, hmmm I wonder why!!??!

There is a clear difference between "Average" players and "good" players. But it is between "good" and "great" Dribblers that I don't notice any difference at all.

Messi and Aguero, feel exactly the same to me. Messi and Tevez, basically the same. Messi and Robinho, barely notice any difference. Messi and Ronaldo, extremely similar, even though in real life they are very different type of dribblers.

I agree about "Just shadow the player and run-into his direction". I still feel like the opposition "gifted" the ball to me, rather than me "Stealing" the ball from them.

And that haves a lot to do with how Limited Defensive Movements are. When you have the ball you have a lot more Movement, maybe not more Pace, but certainly more Movement and Explosiveness.

So as a defender you have to anticipate when an opponent will knock the ball slightly forwards, or you can just stand in front of him and do nothing, it usually works.

Bottom Line is that Defenders are not on par with Attackers. Attackers always have a clear advantage over Defenders. The game needs more Balance in this respect.

I think one-on-one play, Dribbling against and Defending against -NEEDS- a lot of depth and substance. It feels like child's play.

Mind you that I still prefer PES over FIFA in this respect. I think PES is a lot more realistic in one-on-one play. It's a shame that the lack of Movements and Directions spoils what could be a very good game.

For more than 10 games, the only goals scored by the AI now are corners, hmmm I wonder why!!??!

Could it be that some things are "Scripted" ?? Just like Seabass himself admitted?

 

[Katsumoto]

try playing with teams like Celtic, Fenerbahce, Spurs, Moskov, Zenit and let's talk again...

people get playing with top teams only, barca-manu-inter and they complain a lot that it is very easy...

let me give you a tip...choose like Fenerbahce on Champions League competition - no modification on team with its original state -and if you ever manage to even get to second round then let me know...

 

[Amateur]

try playing with teams like Celtic, Fenerbahce, Spurs, Moskov, Zenit and let's talk again...

people get playing with top teams only, barca-manu-inter and they complain a lot that it is very easy...

let me give you a tip...choose like Fenerbahce on Champions League competition - no modification on team with its original state -and if you ever manage to even get to second round then let me know...

Barcelona, Manchester United, Inter -- World Class teams, but DIFFERENT TEAMS WITH DIFFERENT INDIVIDUALS.

There isn't enough difference between good TEAMS and good INDIVIDUALS.

There is a difference between "good" and "great" -- Robinho is good, but Messi is great -- get it?? That isn't reflected in PES09.

 

[Katsumoto]

Barcelona, Manchester United, Inter -- World Class teams, but DIFFERENT TEAMS WITH DIFFERENT INDIVIDUALS.

There isn't enough difference between good TEAMS and good INDIVIDUALS.

There is a difference between "good" and "great" -- Robinho is good, but Messi is great -- get it?? That isn't reflected in PES09.

I disagree, Robinho is nowhere near Messi with his finishing skills...Robinho misses incredible shots on the game...

Other than that, they are both very similar players anyway...Loads of skill and pace...

Seriously, try a weaker team on CL and see what happens...if it is too easy, then you should win it with Celtic, Fenerbahce or Zenit too...

 

[Dale C.]

I disagree, Robinho is nowhere near Messi with his finishing skills...Robinho misses incredible shots on the game...
.

No he doesn't.

On the game, they are very similar. Messi can finish, and Robinho can finish equally as well.

I know because they are both in my master league team, and have been for a number of seasons.

 

[Amateur]

No he doesn't.

On the game, they are very similar. Messi can finish, and Robinho can finish equally as well.

I know because they are both in my master league team, and have been for a number of seasons.

And that's precisely my point.. both Robinho and Messi have Skill and Pace.

Thierry Henry and Leo Messi have Skill and Pace.

Cristiano Ronaldo and Leo Messo both have Skill and Pace.

Does this mean they should be Identical?????? Of course not!!

In Real Life Robinho uses more tricks and flicks than Messi, including Step Overs. Whereas on the other hand, Messi keeps it simple with his Dribbling, he just Cuts the Ball, never uses Step Overs, and is more Explosive than Robinho.

This DIFFERENCES are not reflected on PES09.

Robinho and Messi are pretty much the same players. Messi and Aguero feel like identical players with Different Faces.

Riquelme rarely ever does his Trademark Moves with the Sole of the Foot. He doesn't feels different nor unique.

It is disappointing to see that very different players such as Cristiano Ronaldo and Leo Messi feel so similar in-game. They do the same exact tricks.

And that's exactly what PES09 and all the PES versions to date LACK. They lack Team Chemistry, because there is no difference between "good" players and "great" players. Equally good players do not feel different.

And as a result, TEAMS do not feel different. Maybe you can notice a difference between Average Teams and Big Teams.. But there just isn't enough of a difference between Big Teams with quality players.

I cannot say that Barcelona feels significantly different to Inter, or that Arsenal feels different to Chelsea.

There just aren't enough Stats defining Individuals and Teams. The game simply needs more Stats.. otherwise, the movements can improve, the graphics -- But if the Foundations remain the same, the game will remain more or less the same.

For me this is a major disappointment, and to improve in this respect they will have to get rid of one-dimensional Stats such as "Dribbling Accuracy".

I feel that PES should have grown in this respect already.. Hopefully PES 2010 finally offers us a real "Evolution".


P.S - My apologies if the rant annoys you. It's more directed to Katsumoto.

 

[jason_3108]

And that's precisely my point.. both Robinho and Messi have Skill and Pace.

Thierry Henry and Leo Messi have Skill and Pace.

Cristiano Ronaldo and Leo Messo both have Skill and Pace.

Does this mean they should be Identical?????? Of course not!!

In Real Life Robinho uses more tricks and flicks than Messi, including Step Overs. Whereas on the other hand, Messi keeps it simple with his Dribbling, he just Cuts the Ball, never uses Step Overs, and is more Explosive than Robinho.

This DIFFERENCES are not reflected on PES09.

Robinho and Messi are pretty much the same players. Messi and Aguero feel like identical players with Different Faces.

Riquelme rarely ever does his Trademark Moves with the Sole of the Foot. He doesn't feels different nor unique.

It is disappointing to see that very different players such as Cristiano Ronaldo and Leo Messi feel so similar in-game. They do the same exact tricks.

And that's exactly what PES09 and all the PES versions to date LACK. They lack Team Chemistry, because there is no difference between "good" players and "great" players. Equally good players do not feel different.

And as a result, TEAMS do not feel different. Maybe you can notice a difference between Average Teams and Big Teams.. But there just isn't enough of a difference between Big Teams with quality players.

I cannot say that Barcelona feels significantly different to Inter, or that Arsenal feels different to Chelsea.

There just aren't enough Stats defining Individuals and Teams. The game simply needs more Stats.. otherwise, the movements can improve, the graphics -- But if the Foundations remain the same, the game will remain more or less the same.

For me this is a major disappointment, and to improve in this respect they will have to get rid of one-dimensional Stats such as "Dribbling Accuracy".

I feel that PES should have grown in this respect already.. Hopefully PES 2010 finally offers us a real "Evolution".


P.S - My apologies if the rant annoys you. It's more directed to Katsumoto.

i agree with everything u said.. just that i dont see it happening in the next version or even the version after.. i guess it will be more complicated than adding a few stats,,

 

[Katsumoto]

I do not know guys...Topic subject is; is PES09 too easy? from my point of you; No it is not easy as long as you'd like to play with smaller teams...

OK you may have a point but it does not change the fact that bigger teams are always easier to score or defend...Manu or Barca will always be better with or without Messi or Ronaldo...It is Ronaldinho before, Messi today,someone else tomorrow...

 

[iamcanadianeh]

I think the problem is that the good strikers (approx 86 average) are too good.

I've been playing BAL ever since I got the game, and now just started ML on Top Player. It was challenging at first, but I managed to sign Darren Bent on a free, and now my ML has turned into the Darren Bent show!!! Damn, he's just way too good IMO, and that's a player with only 76 shot accuracy.

I'll have to keep playing to be sure if this opinion sticks, but I seem to be able to score a goal with Bent whenever he picks up the ball - just drible, dribble, dribble, til I'm 5 yards from the GK. Score. Darren Bent!!!!

It's getting boring.

Never thought I would say that, but it seems I was in a bubble while playing my 12 seasons of BAL. Now I can see the problems others are talking about, but for me, so far, it's about these top players being too good. That's also the problem with online, and people using Barca, isn't it?

PS - Also, I think in part it might be down to the dribbling and how easy it is to pull off cuts and get by defenders with these sorts of players. That would also tie in with what Amateur is saying about the lack of variety in the dribbling. In real life different players have different ways of beating defenders, but some of the moves in PES 09 are much more effective than others, so that's what I end up doing.

 

[Amateur]

I think the problem is that the good strikers (approx 86 average) are too good.

I've been playing BAL ever since I got the game, and now just started ML on Top Player. It was challenging at first, but I managed to sign Darren Bent on a free, and now my ML has turned into the Darren Bent show!!! Damn, he's just way too good IMO, and that's a player with only 76 shot accuracy.

I'll have to keep playing to be sure if this opinion sticks, but I seem to be able to score a goal with Bent whenever he picks up the ball - just drible, dribble, dribble, til I'm 5 yards from the GK. Score. Darren Bent!!!!

It's getting boring.

Never thought I would say that, but it seems I was in a bubble while playing my 12 seasons of BAL. Now I can see the problems others are talking about, but for me, so far, it's about these top players being too good. That's also the problem with online, and people using Barca, isn't it?

PS - Also, I think in part it might be down to the dribbling and how easy it is to pull off cuts and get by defenders with these sorts of players. That would also tie in with what Amateur is saying about the lack of variety in the dribbling. In real life different players have different ways of beating defenders, but some of the moves in PES 09 are much more effective than others, so that's what I end up doing.

It's good to see you making more sense.. Now your getting it. And I don't mean that in a bad way.

It's just that I'm pretty sure that a lot of fans who currently play PES09 non-stop.. will eventually get bored, and then they will realize Why so many former fans have opted for FIFA, or are just pissed with the lack of effort.

It just took them more time to realize that. It happens.. in my case, that "bubble" burst after playing PES6 for the 2nd year in a row.

In my opinion, everything is down to LACK OF STATS. Their Foundations are out of date and need to be upgraded.

With New STATS we would have more Differences between Individuals, and the more Differences we have the better the Team Chemistry of every Team.

Which is something that all the PES versions lack, there's barely any Team Chemistry, there's no difference between equally good but different individuals.

But Konami has shown reluctance in upgrading the Foundations of their game. They are still using the same old Stats and Special Abilities they used in PES5, or maybe even since PES3.

The game was good enough 4 years ago, but not anymore. Bottom Line is that the game has not grown along with its customers.. and that IF the Foundations remain the same, the Gameplay will pretty much remain the same at its core.

I think both Konami and EA Sports are eluding that FACT.. they simply refuse to give us a real "evolution" so early on. And adding countless of New Modes such as "BAL" and "10 vs 10" seems like a good strategy for covering that FACT. A good way of making even more profit with the same trick.

I have already made up my mind that if Konami cannot manage to implement some much needed NEW STATS into the game.. I will not buy PES 2010.

Because if the Stats remain unchanged, the Gameplay will pretty much remain unchanged, at its core. And as a result the same Old flaws remain.. It just isn't worth the wait, nor the ca$h.

For how many years have they been using the same set of Stats and Special Abilities?? Is it more than 5 years?? Did PES3 used the same Stats ?

 

[Pancho07]

I dont agree that PES 2009 is too easy, unless your playing with Barcelona or Man U every game or creating a team of the best 11 players in the world each time you do master league!

2 suggestions if you still think the game is too easy;

1) adopt the kind of rules that Zizou does when playing master league (see post 10 or 11 of this thread), i.e have a large number of home-grown players in your first 11 and release your own best players if a higher ranked club comes in with a large bid.

2) download my classic 90's option file from the completed files section and play a few seasons with that. Seriously, its like going up another gaming level from top player. This is because theres over 100 classic teams and about 50 of them have at least one player as good as Messi, for example. Trying to win the World cup or champions league is like trying to win a snow-ball fight in hell.

 

[Amateur]

Honestly speaking, I don't have much of a problem with the game being "too easy".

PES6 and PES5 are "too easy" in my opinion, but I still enjoy playing them, and it really feels like Football. With obvious flaws of course.

On the other hand, PES09 is also too easy, but also too boooring. And that's my main problem with this game, I cannot play more than 4 games, it's just too boring and unrealistic for my liking. It's not Football.

PES09 is basically taking a ride with the COM. And the more I play the game, the more I can see that.