The Manual Pass (best and most overlooked feature in the series)

[What Lad]

mate, i am not chatting beans. i am an adult with a life, this is not about some silly quest to big myself up on a pro evo forum. it happens to be a fact that there is already a 360 manual pass system and i will show it to you when i get my phone. yes you are right there is no need for them to develop this system (especially as they are doing it very badly), and yes you are also right they are not aware of what they have got because the offside bug has existed for too many versions.

i can't imagine any of the paid playtesters having the grasp of this function that i've got.

 

[frost06]

mapping the tricks to the d pad was a bad idea bcuz at times i would be running to goal being chased by a defender and i would try to cut back and i would do a spin move which really sucks

 

[joekim1]

.. which is completely relevant to this topic?

personally, i don't think konami is too concerned with manual pass because the majority of players don't use it frequently, if at all. the way theyve got it worked out, it can be quite complicated to figure out which direction to push the joystick to make the ball go forward and to the right or backwards and to the left, since you can't just point it where you want it to go. but playing with manual pass really breathes new life into this game, and i feel is how all soccer games should actually be played (as in with manual or manualized passing).

i've seen some crazy vids where none of the plays can be done with regular controls. it brings ur play onto another level. the end.

 

[What Lad]

yeah its just so much more fun having the ball and knowing that anywhere you see a player, you CAN attempt to give it to him using the analogue stick, rather than turning around, holding the ball waiting for players to run into some of the pre-scripted positions that your normal controls can reach.

also it's a lot less frustrating when you mis-place a pass, because you know the aim and power is your own responsibility, and you can't blame it on dodgy scripted AI controls.


anybody that is still in doubt about the true ability or 360 degree-ness of the manual pass is welcome to add me on xbox live for a demonstration!

my username is What lad
but you'll have to be playing pro evo 6 because lets face it why would anyone play the new ones online? (or at all)

 

[What Lad]

HERE IS THE UNDISPUTABLE VIDEO EVIDENCE, take note people!! These videos were recorded on Pro Evolution Soccer 6 on XBOX 360. They are also relevant for any PS2 version of the game.

I recorded all of these yesterday.

LONG RANGE MANUAL LOB
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vxMR3IhzcU

Here you can see Camoranesi lobbing the goalkeeper from long distance.
SOME IMPORTANT FACTS TO NOTE:
1. Camoranesi has shot accuracy of 75, and a shot technique of 76. Pretty average shooting ability. The chances of him scoring from this range are extremely slim.
2. He scores using his WEAK foot. I don't know exactly what effect the weak foot has over stats, but I know that even the best players will ballon it using their weak foot.

I simply held in the L1 button and pointed the analogue stick at goal. This was recorded during a live match only yesterday.

 

[What Lad]

TIGHT ANGLE MANUAL SHOT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy20rjQUua0

Gilardino scoring from a tight anglue using the manual pass as a shot.
SOME IMPORTANT FACTS TO NOTE:
1. Most players will miss from this angle, even if facing the goal and completely on-balance.
2. Gilardino is facing away from goal and also running at top speed, pressing shoot now will lead to an awful miskick 99.9% of the time with even the best of players.

I just pointed the right analogue stick at the goal and clicked it. This was recorded during training mode yesterday too.

 

[What Lad]

Manual pass can go in eight directions: up, diagonal, down, diagonal, left, diagonal, right, diagonal.

Manual passes followed by manual shot video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ77YWjzXUo

Please watch this video and tell me which of those 8 directions the final shot travels in?
IMPORTANT FACTS TO NOTE:
1. The two initial passes travel ahead of the player at just the right weight and direction so that they are controlled in stride, too often the computer AI misinterprets the weight or direction of a pass.
2. The final shot, hit first time, is simply tapped at very slow speed. This is impossible with the shot button.
3. The shot travels in a direction that proves the manual pass/shot is 100% analogue, and surely disproves the idea that they can only travel in 8 directions.

 

[MatTheCat]

3. The shot travels in a direction that proves the manual pass/shot is 100% analogue, and surely disproves the idea that they can only travel in 8 directions.

Mate...

The manual pass is not analogue. I have played every version of PES and have been playing manual passes since the very first one. Never has it ever been analogue, Granted, it may not travel in a perfect diagonal direction and I remember hating the manual pass in PES6 because the AI interfered too much, opting to play the ball more towards the nearest player than into the space that I wanted to play the ball into.

But at the end of the day, you are entitled to believe what you like...so long as you aint harming nobody else that is.

 

[What Lad]

Mate...

The manual pass is not analogue. I have played every version of PES and have been playing manual passes since the very first one. Never has it ever been analogue, Granted, it may not travel in a perfect diagonal direction and I remember hating the manual pass in PES6 because the AI interfered too much, opting to play the ball more towards the nearest player than into the space that I wanted to play the ball into.

But at the end of the day, you are entitled to believe what you like...so long as you aint harming nobody else that is.

mate, you are in serious SERIOUS denial. did you watch those videos? you aim the analogue, and you click it. NOT towards another player,but towards the goal! What supposed AI routine determines if I hit the post from a tight angle or score? its the position of my analogue stick!

i have been doing this for over a year, i guarantee it is 100% analogue. did you even watch the videos?!

 

[MatTheCat]

No way mate.

The will of your imagination has got the better of you.

 

[What Lad]

so i have to make more videos now?

are you trying to tell me if you run at an angle from the goal and point the stick at the goal, the AI does the rest? these goals you're seeing are 'computer guided' from the 8 direction template?

more videos it is then. watch this space. i do hope you're not just one of those stubborn types that won't admit just for the sake of loss of face, because this takes effort man!!

 

[MatTheCat]

so i have to make more videos now?

are you trying to tell me if you run at an angle from the goal and point the stick at the goal, the AI does the rest? these goals you're seeing are 'computer guided' from the 8 direction template?

more videos it is then. watch this space. i do hope you're not just one of those stubborn types that won't admit just for the sake of loss of face, because this takes effort man!!

Make me a video of you running towards am empty goal (do it training mode), stopping at the edge of the box, and manual shooting into either bottom corners of the goal. If the manual passing works as you say, you should be able to do this within 6-7 attempts simply by aiming the joystick towards your selected bottom corner.

Do not Shoot with shoot button, do not change direction first, do make sure you are perfectly in line with the midpoint of the goal.

Do this, and I will believe you to the extent that I will dig out PES6 and try it again for myself.

 

[What Lad]

okay so run in a straight line from centre circle, do not change direction. then manual pass into corner of the goal, from the edge of the box?

ok i will get right on it sir

EDIT: (on a booking, you know!)

Alright here it is. I put Gilardino exactly in the centre on the edge of the box. Then I continued to use the playback button so that each shot is taken from the EXACT same place (you can tell this because you see Toni standing in the same position to the right of goal for each shot). I used behind the camera view because it is frankly easier to aim from here, and more clear to see. Sorry about low picture quality

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ-viiHK2Ls

 

[MatTheCat]

okay so run in a straight line from centre circle, do not change direction. then manual pass into corner of the goal, from the edge of the box?

ok i will get right on it sir

EDIT: (on a booking, you know!)

Alright here it is. I put Gilardino exactly in the centre on the edge of the box. Then I continued to use the playback button so that each shot is taken from the EXACT same place (you can tell this because you see Toni standing in the same position to the right of goal for each shot). I used behind the camera view because it is frankly easier to aim from here, and more clear to see. Sorry about low picture quality

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ-viiHK2Ls

I shall dig Pro Ev 6 out and reexamine this to see what exactly is going on here.

 

[What Lad]

yes, thought it'd all go quiet after that

 

[FryslansFury]

looks like someone lost this battle and its not What Lad

 

[MatTheCat]

looks like someone lost this battle and its not What Lad

Tbh, I couldnt be arsed to try it out. I know for a fact that it is totally impossible to get more than 8 directions on 2009. Indeed, you are hard pushed to get more than 4 directions if you dont take time to ensure your diagonal push on joystick is 100% perfect.

All I can say is that I have played with manual psssing for years and indeed have been dissapointed with its 8 directional limitations and of course its general clumsiness for regular use. Maybe with PES6, I just never noticed....or maybe there is more to the matter here than meets the eye.

 

[What Lad]

yes 2009 has completely gutted the good things about the series, we already knew this.

it's up to you. if you can't be arsed to notice a great gameplay feature, then i dunno what we are all meant to expect from konami in the future. oh wait yes i do. bigger stadiums, higher frame rates, more detailed kit badges, players staying back for a corner, more match balls, a new player on the front cover, new soundtrack, new interface, new tactics, new boots, new goal celebrations, updated transfers, team specific crowd chants, new tricks, more realistic net movement or absolutely anything at all that can distract mr-lowest-common-denominator-£30-that-me-ma-gave-me from realising that he's buying a turd

 

[MatTheCat]

it's up to you. if you can't be arsed to notice a great gameplay feature, then i dunno what we are all meant to expect from konami in the future. oh wait yes i do. bigger stadiums, higher frame rates, more detailed kit badges, players staying back for a corner, more match balls, a new player on the front cover, new soundtrack, new interface, new tactics, new boots, new goal celebrations, updated transfers, team specific crowd chants, new tricks, more realistic net movement or absolutely anything at all that can distract mr-lowest-common-denominator-£30-that-me-ma-gave-me from realising that he's buying a turd

I agree that the core gameplay needs to be greatly developed. But from having played FIFA, I dont think that manual passing is the best use of the right stick, I think usign that stick as a controls stick is much better, especially allowing it to be used to 1st time knock the ball on for yourself in the direction of your choosing (depending on player position, animation etc). At end of the day, manual passing could be carried out by simply having 360 movement and turning CPU assistance off.

But neither of us will ever get our wish. I dont think Konami will ever fundamentally redesign their engine due to a combination of both arrogance and fear. So its new gfx, new tactics, and untucked shirts for all of us....... Oh yes, and of course a whole new improved online system that actually works, alledgedly. Of course if it dont work (yet again) this time then I will not be paying a penny for PES this year, regardless of how good the game is or isn't.

 

[What Lad]

i agree. it doesn't necessarily have to be on the right stick, but i think they'd be much better going back to the PES6 engine and further refining it. manual pass could be the left stick, but i think auto passes are also necessary in tight situations... so maybe you could assign a different button to that purpose or something.

i'll probably be playing PES6 online until i'm dead, or konami is. i still think the value of the manual pass is CRIMINALLY undervalued by the entire development team as well as most of the games players. i might make more videos highlighting some of the things you can do