5 to 10 minute matches are a limitation

[Amateur]

10 Minute Simulation "holding back the genre"

Here is the question that I'd like to ask to anyone interested, Do you guys think that 5 to 10 minute matches are holding back the genre?

I've been thinking about that for awhile now and, I'm convinced that 5 to 10 minute matches are as much a limitation as the old 8 directional gameplay. This is why PES always haves that familiar "ping pong" effect, because it's necessary within the 5-10 minute restrictions.

The game is scripted? Because of the 5-10 minute restrictions, etc, etc.

And so it is impossible to properly simulate all the intricacies involved in Football. I mean, how much can these games truly evolve within the 5-10 minute restriction ?

It was understandable before, because the game was 8 directional... and so it would be ridiculous to have 30 to 40 minute matches -because- it would either be a "fun" game with 6-9 scoreboards, or it could not be as "fun" and be a crappier more unrealistic game.

However, with 360 freedom everything changes... there is now more room for skills and less room for that luck factor, in other wors "scripted" gameplay.

Do you guys think 30 to 40 minute games would allow room for more features, so that perhaps we can have a more realistic balance between fun and challenging?

What aspects of Football do you think would fit into a 40 minute match -but- are impossible to implement into a 10 minute game ?

 

[Mullet Taylor]

jesus christ man. not jumping the gun a little bit here ? pes 2010 hasn't even been released. wait and play the new game for 2 weeks and return

 

[Amateur]

jesus christ man. not jumping the gun a little bit here ? pes 2010 hasn't even been released. wait and play the new game for 2 weeks and return

Yeah but this haves little to do with PES 2010. In fact, no new suggestions will make it to PES10.

Regardless of how good PES10 will be, I just do not think a realistic simulation is possible to accomplish within the 5 to 10 minute restriction.

New animations, motion capture, 360 movement, sliders and cards, etc, etc. I don't think it will make much of a difference under the 5-10 minute restriction.

And so I'm only asking for 30 minute or 40 minute matches, as I think that would open-up the genre.

If anyone is jumping the gun here, it's you.

 

[Mullet Taylor]

why would anyone wanna play a match that lasts 40 mins ?

 

[Dragonfly]

There has always been an option to play 30 minute matches, hasn't there? Has it been stated that you will only have an option of 5 or 10 minute matches? If no, I'm sure there still will be the option of 30 minutes.

 

[Sweey]

I don't see the problem here. We are not limited to a 5 or 10 minute game making this whole thread pointless.

If when the game is released we suddenly don't have the option of anything longer than a 10-minute game then fine this thread has a point. Until then, it doesn't.

 

[worm]

why would anyone wanna play a match that lasts 40 mins ?

??? Why would anyone wanna assume for everyone else????


Personally - i hope they don't restrict online play to 5-10mins.

 

[Amateur]

why would anyone wanna play a match that lasts 40 mins ?

Dude, think about it... how many matches do you play whenever you play PES09?

In my case, I always play at least 4 matches, each one of 10 minutes. So it's basically the same as playing a 40 minute match, but it's less satisfying, etc.

It can be fun at times, it haves a certain "hook" to it, etc. But it is never challenging, and it should not be taken seriously nor played competitively.

Bottom Line is that the 5 to 10 minute mark is a limitation, at least in my opinion. The game will always feel "scripted" under the 5-10 minute restriction, the game will always have that "ping pong" effect, etc.

It will never be a proper simulation, if you get the point. I would prefer to play a 40 minute match with more complicated gameplay -instead- of 4 quick games that, although fun, offer little to no challenge.

Quality over quantity.

I do not think the genre will truly evolve under the 5 to 10 minute restriction. But sadly, like you pointed out - who would want to play a match that lasts 40 minutes?

I would, as I can think of many concepts that would fit in perfectly in a 40 minute match -but- would be impossible to implemet in a quick 10 minute game. But most people just want a "fun" pick-up and play simulation, if you can call it that.

I truly believe that eventually, EA and Konami will be forced into considering implementing 30 to 40 minute games... As I think people will eventually get tired of the same old "fun" but unsatisfying 5 or 10 minute fix.

Only time will tell.


Edit - the only problem with my argument is that we do have 30 minute matches... my mistake.

 

[Sweey]

Amateur what is the problem? We aren't limited to playing a 5 or 10 minute match, there is already an option for a longer match and has been for years.

 

[Amateur]

I don't see the problem here. We are not limited to a 5 or 10 minute game making this whole thread pointless.

If when the game is released we suddenly don't have the option of anything longer than a 10-minute game then fine this thread has a point. Until then, it doesn't.

You're absolutely right, my mistake. And yes, it does makes this thread rather pointless. Although not entirely.

I've been playing 10 minute matches for so long now that I had forgoten about the 30 minute option... Most of my friends don't like 30 minute matches because of the unrealistic scores.

My apologies for the mistake...

Now I'm even more interested in PES 2010 because one of the things that I liked about 09 that the older PS2 versions didn't have, was how the pace of the game changed.

It feels very "scripted" at times, but I do think it is a realistic touch... and now I want to test 30 minute matches, to see if the changes in momentum feel less scripted. Until then, I cannot comment on anything regarding 30 minute matches.

I used to play 30 minute matches every now and then, like 2 years ago, and back in PES6 I did not felt any significant diferences between 10 minute matches and 30 minute matches.

So I would like to ask anyone who has played both 10 minute matches and 30 minute matches -if- they feel any significant difference.

Although slightly misleading, we could use this thread to post the differences (if any) between 10 minute and 30 minute matches.

I guess the only thing that can be argued is if Konami are paying enough attention to 30 minute matches, and what can Konami do to offer a more realistic simulation when playing 30 min matches.

Konami have mentioned "realistic simulation" more than a few times... perhaps this is indication that Konami is paying more attention to 30 minute matches.

 

[Sweey]

I thought you'd gone crazy for a while there :laugh:

 

[Amateur]

I thought you'd gone crazy for a while there :laugh:

Yeah LOL at myself... I go on saying 5 to 10 minute matches are a limitation, and I'm actually choosing to play under this limitation.

That said, I do think it's worth talking about it. I mean, nobody has mentioned any differences between 10 minute and 30 minute matches.

And considering some of the touches that PES09 haves that the old PS2 versions do not have... well at the moment I want to play PES09 to see if I can spot any significant differences.

One of my main gripes with 09 was and still is the "scripted" feel everything haves, it's like the COM controls 60% of all the little intricacies, and we just decide when and how to pass or shot the ball.

But perhaps it haves a lot to do with the fact that I've been playing 10 minute matches.

 

[StringerBell]

FIFA 04 once had the option to do a 90 minute match 35 minuts in I remember the core being like 12-15 hmy: I cant think of any sport game that recreates actually game length and it being any fun.

 

[Amateur]

I just played four 30 minute games, and one 10 minute game and... I must say that the point of this thread still stands.

We do have the option to play 30 minute matches, but the four matches I played ended with; 3-17, 4-14, 3-9, and 1-14 scorelines. Pro Evolution 2009 does not haves enough substance for 30 minute matches.

Konami's aim was clear, they wanted to produce a fun pick-up and play game. PES09 is meant to be played at 10 or 15 minutes, any longer than that and the game becomes an utter joke.

You don't have any L1 button like in FIFA, therefore you have to pass the ball so that your team-mates start moving... no sliders or cards, 8 directional movement, a very limited number of animations, unrealistically fast pace, etc, etc.

Everything about PES09 is limited, this game was meant to be played at 10 minutes. Even the pace of the game is custom-made for 10 minute matches, fast-paced, to cover for the lack of substance.

So whenever you do decide to try something new, and you go for 30 minute matches... nothing changes, it's still the same fast-paced arcade BS, only 3 times longer. Each game will most probably end with a 7-11 scoreline, at least.

Bottom line is that, yes Konami does give us the option of playing 30 minute matches -BUT- their priority is 10 minute matches. Their aim is to offer a so-called realistic simulation within 10 minutes of play.

And 10 minute matches cannot handle any more substance, it's impossible, it's like fitting five people on a sport sedan, not gonna happen.

Konami must change their approach, their new priority should be to offer a realistic simulation within 30 minutes of play.

Until then, they can implement new concepts such as the Sliders and Cards, new animations, better graphics, etc, etc. It will not make enough of a difference if Konami maintain the same 10 Minute Approach.

Like I said in the 1st post, I am convinced that Konami and EA will eventually need to go for 30 or 40 minute matches. It's inevitable as far as I'm concerned.

FIFA 04 once had the option to do a 90 minute match 35 minuts in I remember the core being like 12-15 hmy: I cant think of any sport game that recreates actually game length and it being any fun.

I am 100% convinced that it is possible to have a "fun" and realistic 40 minute simulation. It's all a matter of fitting enough substance to actually have a fun 40 minute game.

FIFA 2004 did not have enough substance to play a 10 minute match... therefore playing a 90 minute match with FIFA04's gameplay would be horrible.

That said, I'm not talking about a 90 minute game... I'm talking about a 30 or 40 minute game, there's a big difference.