How do You Defend Against AI "Cheating?"

[wilsybill]

I have always enjoyed playing PES since the beginning and usually finish playing having had fun and enjoyed the many addictive hours. However with this 2011 version I can only play 3-4 games before I'm fucking livid and want to smash some fucker's face in!!!

I can be controlling a game and be 3-0 up with 10 mins to go and all of a sudden the CPU starts to play like the best team in the world and my team turn in to retards. The game ends 3-3?!?! Is there any tips for defending against these stupid CPU AI cheating spells during games? It is totally ruining the experience for me. I've even tried dropping down skill level but that was a bit easy to be honest.

Why the fuck do KONAMI make the cheating so obvious?!? Be more subtle you half wit cunts. The ball can't travel through a CB's chest....it's not fucking possible!!!

Any tips on how to combat these AI cheating spells would be greatly appreciated. This is a good game but is being massively ruined by the cheating.

By the way I'm raging now because I've just finished playing. I was 4-0 up from the first leg of the Spanish cup. Lost the second leg 5-0. Against the bottom team!!! Makes notwating sense.

 

[stottmeister]

I'd say fouling but I've experienced the cpu slowing down my chasing defender with SPRINT turning into STUPID SIDEWAYS SHUFFLE just as I closed in on the guy through on goal so that didn't work.

 

[iamcanadianeh]

What level are you on, what team are you using, what mode, what tactics?

 

[PES3Xtreme]

Try tweaking your player stats with PES Editor. Dumb down some of the settings like Shot Accuracy, Short Pass Accuracy, Agression, Top Speed, etc. It completely changed the game for me. Gone are the soft goals, ping pong passing and blinding pace, especially near the end. It really balances things out.

 

[wilsybill]

What level are you on, what team are you using, what mode, what tactics?

I have been playing as Mallorca. I usually play 4-2-3-1 and a very counter attacking game. I play quite defensive and try to hit teams on the counter attack. The team stats I play are quite narrow and I have it set to close teams down really quickly.

I've even resorted to holding down X to hustle their player with the ball, whilst hlding spuare for a defender support. The attacker just walks through them?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks so far for the replies....

 

[wilsybill]

I play top player by the way - forgot that bit

 

[iamcanadianeh]

I play top player by the way - forgot that bit

Your squad is not the best then, it must be said, but you said you're having trouble against some of the weaker sides? I could understand if you were having this difficulty against Barca, but if that's not the case then it's hard to say. When you say players are walking/dribbling right through you, who are these players (stats wise) and who are they walking though (stats wise)?

I don't want to make it sound like I'm not believing in you, but one of the things I find is that some people seem to be seeing the fact that the AI in PES 2011 will actually attack you at times as cheating, when in my opinion the real problem is that they don't attack more often. In other words, I find the game way too easy, but if they ever do attack then, I guess, it becomes clear that they are capable of much better. Regardless, the point is that it is possible to play against the AI and not experience cheating, but it all comes down to your tactics and team IMO.

For starters, I would caution against the high pressure/counter attack combination. I started this way but have realized that counter attacking and high pressure can really leave you exposed at the back. For example, using the strategy "quick counter" seems to push your back line up as well. That's a bit counter-intuitive, because my approach when I'm up 1-0, 2-0, is usually to lower my attack level to defensive, and then try to counter attack. Well, if you want to lower your attack level that's fine, but also using the "quick counter" strategy might still leave you exposed at the back with a high line.

I'm not an expert, trust me, but another thing to try is to look at the sliders and see exactly what it is that they do. Pressure for example: I used to keep this at 15, but I realized that there is a big difference between middle and high levels. The middle setting makes it so that your midfield pressure, but the D line stays more or less intact. High means everyone presses up. Again, if this is too high you could be exposed at the back.

In brief, what I'm saying is that I tend to think these problems can be resolved. Yes, it might seem crazy that a player can walk through one of your defenders, but what if you have two there? What if the position of that defender is not quite right? What if you are pressing with that defender too much instead of jockeying (hold x, but not towards the player with the ball until the right moment)?

I agree with you though that there is something about this year's game which really seems like cheating/scripting at times. The key though is to KNOW that the game behaves that way, and be ready for it.

This goes for online as well, for example last night I lost to a total doorknob... He was up 1-0 for most of the game even though I had more chances and posession (he scored a really lucky one out of absolutely nothing). I noticed though that his attack level was really high (red) even though he was up 1-0. I thought, gee, this guy knows nothing... So I kept on pressing with medium attack level knowing that due to his lack of conservative approach eventually I would be likely to get one back. Sure enough I did, and when I did he texted "shocking!" I was laughing because it wasn't shocking to me at all given the lack of tactical awareness he had. Then, with 1 minute left he scored one back, even though I had my attack level dialed down... I wasn't surprised though because I accidentally still had my "quick counter" activated and regardless, his attck level was so high that it's just surprising that there weren't seven more goals in the game! Plus, my keeper really should have saved it, so maybe I need someone better than Ivarov...

Of course, noob that he is he says "impressive" about his own goal, and proceeds to watch the replay in slow mo while he strokes his own ego. LOL.

Anyway, my point is that there may be some situations where you can't do anything about the outcome, but I tend to look at the tactics and I've never seen something that can't be explained or improved upon with adjusting my own tactics (or team).

 

[techboy11]

OP can understand your frustration, many a time I've been say 3-0 up from a first leg tie only for the CPU to blitz three goals in ten minutes in the next leg playing like the best Brazil/Barce/Ajax all rolled into one. I didn't used to adjust tactics etc kind of had the mentality that my best will be better than your best, but the tactics changes DO make a huge difference in how the end result comes to pass IMO. So firstly I have my set tactics, quite spacious, back four, holding DMF, CMF, two wideish CM a SS and CF. I don't have player support too high, and don't tend to pressure too much. If I go 1-0 and it's late in game, or 2-0 or whatever, or if I'm holding a lead going into the second leg, it's a complete change of tactics on CUSTOM SETTING A. Back four, two DMF, two wideish CMFs not from from DMF and then two up top, I look to condense everything in my third of the pitch, I play defensive line at around 7/8, and look to counter, but don't have counter on, because as we all know counter means high pressure in this game.

I just find that if you leave settings the same, and the CPU DECIDES it is going to blitz you (and let's face it this is like RL if they are losing or chasing a game) then you have to change the tactics or the CPU will fk you over. It't that simple.

What I have found though is that there is a significant difference between whether you have applied an OF or not, which brings me onto my other point. I played PES and applied all the kits etc and the game just became increasingly broken, and the amount of crazy SCRIPTED goals started to appear more and more from impossible situations (I know it can be done re Arsenal v Newc, but not all the time!), so I reverted back to PES from the box, no editing, etc and the game plays like a dream. The response of each player is significantly increased, I can play neat tight football, the shots feel better, the CPU is more dangerous in attack although in a realistic way and not scripted crazy goal kind of way. The downside is I think any editing, apart from changing the team names, so things like change of hairstyle even breaks the game as well, so you basically can't edit anything not even the kits using the editor!?!?.

BUT, you'll find that the game plays out as it should, I haven't noticed ANY crazy scripted, stupid goals that wasn't my own fault, so if you get frustrated at the constant weirdness then you may want to revert to the default game, pain in the ass I know!

 

[getorres77]

I am tired of how they defend. It is impossible to get in. Every team plays 4-2-3-1 and you have no space to enter. it is simply unreal. And when you try to take the ball they play like Iniesta or Messi. And I mean all the teams is the same, you have no defensive response from your side. You can have like 4 or 5 players on the one who has the ball and still they dont get it. To me is the most unreal defensive system for both sides. They defend too good and the defenders in our teams are too stupid. They always cut the passes you try to make. It is simplyn frustrating. And I think the last "patch" we got has a lot to do with this. I think that the game before the patch was more enjoyable and realistic to play. I dont know who was the stupid who suggested that the game had some kind of issue with AI defense or the gameplay it self. The AI defenders were good, but not like machines, like they are now. You had spaces, you were able to score goals. Now you get pure 0-0 or 1-0. I hope that the next PES is not as bad as this one cause it is impossible to play, or at least enjoy playing, that I think is the point. Every match I end up frustrated and stressed cause I cant do anything against this super perfect machine. In my master league I have David Villa, Torres, Elia, Ribery, Lennon, Joe Cole, Gerrard, Meireles. And with all that I still cant get in. and also they lose the ball like they were amateur players. Unbelievable.

 

[Du 1337]

Make fouls

 

[zizou4ever]

Yes, the cheating is really annoying not only because CPU becomes a "super team" but also because it slows down your team.

Anyway, all the points above are really important. Pay attention to the formation and team style.

But I have some tips too. When you are not in possession, what do you do? Do you chase the ball? Try to tackle? What I do is this: I run with a closer defender, paying attention to not leave spaces for a through pass. When my defender is in front or very close to the opponent, I switch the control to another player and I keep making pressure (using square button). Now it is the trick. When my player - the one who is pressuring and I am not controlling - is shoulder to shoulder with COM I keep pressing square and I move the L stick in direction to my own side in the field (right or left). My defender will win all the times, regardless the stats.

Yesterday, for example, in ML my RB El Moubarki won all ball against... Messi and Rooney! I am playing on Top Player by the way.

So, in summary, the trick is make pressure with square button and the L stick towards your own side of the field. You will get the ball all the time.

Other tips I found useful for defense I found in "PESMastery.com":
- http://pesmastery.com/2010/08/pes-corner-defending.html
- http://pesmastery.com/2010/08/pes-freekick-defending.html

Have a good game!

 

[zizou4ever]

Yes, the cheating is really annoying not only because CPU becomes a "super team" but also because it slows down your team.

Anyway, all the points above are really important. Pay attention to the formation and team style.

But I have some tips too. When you are not in possession, what do you do? Do you chase the ball? Try to tackle? What I do is this: I run with a closer defender, paying attention to not leave spaces for a through pass. When my defender is in front or very close to the opponent, I switch the control to another player and I keep making pressure (using square button). Now it is the trick. When my player - the one who is pressuring and I am not controlling - is shoulder to shoulder with COM I keep pressing square and I move the L stick in direction to my own side in the field (right or left). My defender will win all the times, regardless the stats.

Yesterday, for example, in ML my RB El Moubarki won all ball against... Messi and Rooney! I am playing on Top Player by the way.

So, in summary, the trick is make pressure with square button and the L stick towards your own side of the field. You will get the ball all the time.

Other tips I found useful for defense I found in "PESMastery.com":
- http://pesmastery.com/2010/08/pes-corner-defending.html
- http://pesmastery.com/2010/08/pes-freekick-defending.html

Have a good game!

 

[wilsybill]

Thanks for all of your help guys (especially iamcanadianeh) .

I have decided to drop skill level down from top player. I've played a few games now and it's challenging without being ridiculous. I think as well (after calming down) I just might not be as responsive on the buttons as I once was. Some people are saying the game is too easy o maybe they just have way better reaction times than me. I find the professional level (I think that's the one below top player?) mre my level. I've lost games on professional but the "cheating" has decreased. The CPU has scored probably 85% of goals that seemed fair or where it didn't appear my players etc were being manipulated. On top player for me, the percentage of good CPU goals was about 30%.

I agree that its odd on counter attacking strategy that the defenders push up. I thought this was just my imagination, but I guess others have noticed.

Yup I think Ihave to face it that perhaps I'm just not as good on this game as I used to be and the AI manipulation on top player has out smarted me. I'll keep going on professional for now as the game is more enjoyable on this level.

 

[iamcanadianeh]

Thanks for all of your help guys (especially iamcanadianeh) .

I have decided to drop skill level down from top player. I've played a few games now and it's challenging without being ridiculous. I think as well (after calming down) I just might not be as responsive on the buttons as I once was. Some people are saying the game is too easy o maybe they just have way better reaction times than me. I find the professional level (I think that's the one below top player?) mre my level. I've lost games on professional but the "cheating" has decreased. The CPU has scored probably 85% of goals that seemed fair or where it didn't appear my players etc were being manipulated. On top player for me, the percentage of good CPU goals was about 30%.

I agree that its odd on counter attacking strategy that the defenders push up. I thought this was just my imagination, but I guess others have noticed.

Yup I think Ihave to face it that perhaps I'm just not as good on this game as I used to be and the AI manipulation on top player has out smarted me. I'll keep going on professional for now as the game is more enjoyable on this level.

No problem.

You weren't out of line though in your comments about cheating. I think there's definitely something to be said for the AI cheating argument since so many people have commented on it. It's not a coincidence. However, there are some people who simply find the game way too easy and rarely, if ever, experience anything they would call cheating. On the other had, I don't agree with the conspiracy theorists who think the AI actually cheats because it can't stand losing.

The sad thing though is that neither party is truly happy. I'm part of the group who find it too easy and, essentially, wish there was more "cheating" but what I really wish for is the PES of old where the higher diffiulty levels presented a realistic challenge, without anything resembling cheating. Unfortunately we just don't have that right now, so I strive for achieving balance by manipulating the tactics, but at the end of the day the AI is just not quite right. I think 99% of the PES fans out there would agree with that, whether they believe in cheating or not.

This is why I always question these arguments about how Konami needs to redesign PES entirely. What I really want isn't a brand new way to play the game, but a really well executed version of what we have now, just like the classics were in their time. I don't think that's too much to ask, but achieving that would probably actually be more difficult than for Konami to go back to the drawing board and create a new engine, new ways of playing, etc. It may seem easy to say from our perspective, but I think achieving the right balanace with the AI is easier said than done. One thing is for certain though is that they need more difficulty levels.

 

[Athlon_]

The only way you will stop AI cheating in PES is for different people to make the game in the first place. The developers of PES have gotten comfortable using programming cheats such as scripting to take short cuts, rather than to actually programme a strong AI like in the past.

I for one have totally lost patience with the lazy, incompetent, amateurish, annual liars, thieves and half-witted morons sitting in a jungle clearing who make this 'game'. For instance, the problem of small players such as Sten being in the middle of the box when defending corners has been in the game since PES 4 - that's SEVEN years. Pro Evo isn't going to get better, its been getting steadily worse for nearly a decade now. Year after year its the same old shizzle. My advice is to never by a game from a nation that eats cats.

Seabass won't be getting any of my money in the future that's for sure. FUCK YOU KONAMI, FUCK YOU SEABASS, and the various endangered marine species you eat.

 

[OnlyProEvo]

I drew to Chelsea yesterday because the AI cheated and gave them a last minute penalty, for a perfect tackle on Anelka by Palmieri.

Ah well!

 

[dan80]

It is ridiclious i remember when they said all new defensive system clever defence, when acually its damm right cheating, you can attempt tackles and miss they play a through ball in an impossible angle and the defender just watches it go pass him or the ball will go to his feet and will just step out the way.

What i used to try is to not go to the player but sort of follow him run along side and barge off of the ball which could end in a foul, or tackle the fuck out of the AI it could work or could be a foul depends on how the game feels.

And as the game goes on the more you play it just doesnt feel natural becuase of this cheating it just feels so predictable on whats going to happan e.g corner cleared edge of the box player does a siccsor kick and it goes well over or the keppper doesnt try so much scripting its runing the experience for me.

 

[CS67700]

The only way you will stop AI cheating in PES is for different people to make the game in the first place. The developers of PES have gotten comfortable using programming cheats such as scripting to take short cuts, rather than to actually programme a strong AI like in the past.

I for one have totally lost patience with the lazy, incompetent, amateurish, annual liars, thieves and half-witted morons sitting in a jungle clearing who make this 'game'. For instance, the problem of small players such as Sten being in the middle of the box when defending corners has been in the game since PES 4 - that's SEVEN years. Pro Evo isn't going to get better, its been getting steadily worse for nearly a decade now. Year after year its the same old shizzle. My advice is to never by a game from a nation that eats cats.

Seabass won't be getting any of my money in the future that's for sure. FUCK YOU KONAMI, FUCK YOU SEABASS, and the various endangered marine species you eat.

Damn right brother, FUCK THIS.
It's fair to say that it's gotten too far.

I miss the past PES/WE from 10 years ago, now all we get is scripted bullshit from lazy ass mother fuckers.

I believe fans should teach a lesson to Konami, by boycotting the next PES until they take their fingers out of their arse and start programming real AI.

 

[coolio_jack]

If there werent for so called AI cheating, game would be far to easy. I mean, after you play with some quality human players, when you return to playing vs CPU it all seems as a joke how easy it is.

 

[iamcanadianeh]

If there werent for so called AI cheating, game would be far to easy. I mean, after you play with some quality human players, when you return to playing vs CPU it all seems as a joke how easy it is.

Agreed.