Do not buy pes 2012

[Micho]

There's so much crap in this thread, however, why can't people judge the game on it's merits, not on those of FIFA. Just because u don't like FIFA, that doesn't make PES good. I've been a fan of PES for years, never liked FIFA and still don't, but i can honestly say PES2012 is absolutely terrible. I'm genuinely starting to think no one at KOMANI has ever seen a football match. I wouldn't take a free copy of PES 2012.

Pes 11 had:

- Cursor Switching ( which improved in pes 12 is still not good enough ).
- Catch up bug ( which in pes 12 is removed but now its the opposite, you can't catch some players at all once they get past you even tho they dribble the ball and you run without it ( and the top speeds of both can be similar, so the players are a bit too fast with the ball compared to without it, alltho its better than last year and its not a huge issue just a bit overdone ).
- Responsiveness ( improved in pes 12 ).

Now in addition to some "semi-fixed" things from pes 11 that are still not perfect, here are the rest of the issues with pes 12:

- Close control of players is ridicilous, when you sprint with someone with 70 DA he makes 1 touch per 1 stride, ffs even Messi doesn't do that in real life.
- Team individuality, every freaking team plays completely the same way , 1.get ball 2. RUSH FORWARD DRIBBLE PAST PLAYERS TRY TO SCORE 3. lose ball/score 4. sit DEEP and defend.
- Tactics, even tho we only have 1 true tactic ( as changing pre set tactics only really changes the players on your team , AI will still play almost completely the same no matter what you change ) but that 1 tactic alone is way wrong, what team sits back with 10 players in their penalty box, like EVER? I swear I never saw that even Inter/Chelsea against Barca, its completely unrealistic and ridicilous, there is no midfield and I don't even feel like im playing/watching a realistic soccer match.
- Keepers are absolutely HORRIBLE on 1.00 and 1.01, they are simply HORRIBLE, I can't find any other word to describe them.
- Standing tackles are too ineffective and there should also be a button I can press to foul someone whenever I want ( If I want to stop them from advancing that is ) and risk a yellow card but still, the only thing you can do in this case is slide tackle as you can't really do a standing tackle whenever and however you want.
- The game is much more assisted than pes 11 was, ffs even shooting is assisted and you can't even shoot whichever direction you want , the CPU sometimes overrides your commands and chooses whichever the CPU wants, this is a huge issue btw.
- Refs are horrible, they won't give out a yellow card for ANY standing tackle apart from a SLIDE tackle, no matter what kind of situation, even if your the last man , or theres a clear scoring chance, thats just cheating man.. the cpu stops you when you could go on and score and get no yellow card or anything.
- Scripting is the most horrible ive ever seen in any game, its a joke the AI can skip past your man if its one on one whenever he wants with PERFECTLY timed and excecuted bursts even if the cpu player is someone with 50 DA, EP etc...


How are these issues not HUGE gamebreaking stuff ??

Honestly PES 12 is not even an improvement over PES 11 for me, I rate them both the same.

They added/fixed alot of things which are positive that you mentioned before and I agree with you, but on the other hand they removed/destroyed some other things that ALREADY WERE positive from previous games and ABSOLUTELY should not be removed/destroyed. Its like KONAMI doesn't get/ignores every freaking single feedback they get, its useless really..

For some PES 12 might be an improvement over PES 11, for me its not, I rate them the same. However even if PES 12 is an improvement for you and some people you can't say its a big improvement with all the shit they ruined next to adding/fixing some positive things, its at best a slight improvement.

Last year was a major step forward and I got some hope for this year, but this year was a disapointment for me, 5 steps forward and 5 steps back ( 4 for some like you I guess ).



Man wth, have you ever really played fifa 12?

-im not using tactical defending but the normal one so I can't comment on that, but you can choose for urself anyway.

-superhuman ai yeah right... I play on legendary and I have no problem with superhuman ai, it seems pretty good to me, if you don't like it you also have the options to change sliders to make it more realistic. On the other hand pes AI is cheating with its scripting and u cant do anything to change it ( apart maybe a patch much later ).

-superhuman keepers... sure.. again you got sliders you can set them to be realistic.

-fifa 12 shooting has issues same as pes, you can't really say which is better its about preference, I for one am seriously annoyed with the automated shooting in pes, the rest is great tho.


So as you can see you really haven't been honest writing this or haven't played fifa.

For me fifa has made alot of improvements from last year, most notably the sliders which lets you adjust the game to make it more realistic.

so ATM playing both pes and fifa quite alot I would say pes is a decent 6.5 and fifa is a strong 7.

Now im waiting for yair/jenkey to fix most of the things in pes, if they manage to do it then pes has the potential to be prolly up to a 7.5-8 , since some issues can't be fixed with any patch.

you guys are my twin brothers ^5

 

[g221911g]

There's so much crap in this thread, however, why can't people judge the game on it's merits, not on those of FIFA. Just because u don't like FIFA, that doesn't make PES good. I've been a fan of PES for years, never liked FIFA and still don't, but i can honestly say PES2012 is absolutely terrible. I'm genuinely starting to think no one at KOMANI has ever seen a football match. I wouldn't take a free copy of PES 2012.

Your statement about konami never seeing a football match is exactly what I was thinking.

Actually, your entire post is spot on...

There is not ONE THING that isn't broken in this game. Seriously.

Dribbling
Passing
Crossing
Defending
Goalkeeping
Animations
Cursor Changing
Ball Physics
A.I. that continually runs away from the ball after it has come right to them.

There is NO SKILL WHATSOEVER involved in this game because konami does 90% of everything for the users.

I've been into detail plenty of times on these so I won't in this post.
There are literally no movements that are consistent in this game. The AI is the only one playing while the user is merely giving ideas. Even when you are on the cursor, you are subject to konami moving you, tackling for you, freezing you etc.

You don't even play the opponent, you spend your time fighting konami's stupid fucking scripted movements/animations.

What's the point?

Seriously....what is the point of playing when the entire system is STILL ON RAILS!

Konami has made failure after failure since 2008. I see some people somehow giving them credit because 2008 was so ridiculously pathetic, anything in comparison looks good.

These people continue to put out turd after turd because apparently nobody else thinks that a game based on the greatest and biggest sport in the world will sell.

If konami can get people to continually buy this shit, then anybody should be able to. Which is exactly why, FIFA, even though spotty itself, is KILLING this joke of a PS2 generation franchise.

I used to love this franchise, now I will be happy when it's dead.

 

[Makavelian]

Fifa always kills pes in sales.
Even during pes 3 and 5.You want konami to stop making football games?
But then we're left with just one bad football game to play.And personally i've never liked fifa since 98.

 

[g221911g]

Fifa always kills pes in sales.
Even during pes 3 and 5.You want konami to stop making football games?
But then we're left with just one bad football game to play.And personally i've never liked fifa since 98.

All of my post and you focus on the last sentence??

OK. I'm not sure I want konami to stop making football games (even though they haven't really made one in years anyway). That's rage talking. Although I don't see the point with the shit they keep putting out.

I'd hate to see what FIFA would become if they were the only game in town.

What I'd really like to see is a third and fourth company get into the game.

At this point, they couldn't do worse.

 

[MysteryMan]

BTW, Fifa 12 is not a bad game, I would give it a 7.

Indeed, and pes 12 is a 6.5 at most.

Your statement about konami never seeing a football match is exactly what I was thinking.

Actually, your entire post is spot on...

There is not ONE THING that isn't broken in this game. Seriously.

Dribbling
Passing
Crossing
Defending
Goalkeeping
Animations
Cursor Changing
Ball Physics
A.I. that continually runs away from the ball after it has come right to them.

There is NO SKILL WHATSOEVER involved in this game because konami does 90% of everything for the users.

I've been into detail plenty of times on these so I won't in this post.
There are literally no movements that are consistent in this game. The AI is the only one playing while the user is merely giving ideas. Even when you are on the cursor, you are subject to konami moving you, tackling for you, freezing you etc.

You don't even play the opponent, you spend your time fighting konami's stupid fucking scripted movements/animations.

What's the point?

Seriously....what is the point of playing when the entire system is STILL ON RAILS!

Konami has made failure after failure since 2008. I see some people somehow giving them credit because 2008 was so ridiculously pathetic, anything in comparison looks good.

These people continue to put out turd after turd because apparently nobody else thinks that a game based on the greatest and biggest sport in the world will sell.

If konami can get people to continually buy this shit, then anybody should be able to. Which is exactly why, FIFA, even though spotty itself, is KILLING this joke of a PS2 generation franchise.

I used to love this franchise, now I will be happy when it's dead.

Great post, I agree 100% with everything.

Sadly im stuck with fifa this year I guess, which is not horrible but its not great either.
Its still a bit better than this year's pes, which is a joke, I can only hope patches in the future manage to at least make it somewhat better and enjoyable at least.

 

[fick]

What I'd really like to see is a third and fourth company get into the game.

At this point, they couldn't do worse.

You'd think not, but history tells us otherwise. The last decent footy title other than EA & Konami's releases was probably Sensible Soccer (The SWOS edition from '94 being the pinnacle of the series). Not the re-hash release for the console, but the proper PC/Amiga release back in the day.

Other than that, what have we had? Fifa Street? The Manchester United series from Krisalis, the brave but flawed Kick-Off from Anco or the woeful many other attempts (special mention to Paul Gascoines game with the dodgy perspective change as you enter the final 3rd of the pitch).

We do really need another serious entrant. With EA's tight grip on the licence there are obvious limitations, but as PES/ISS and the likes of Sensi proved, good gameplay can negate the need for the licence. Regardless of what does happen, there is a real need for a shake-up in the world of soccer entertainment.

 

[Micho]

Your statement about konami never seeing a football match is exactly what I was thinking.

Actually, your entire post is spot on...

There is not ONE THING that isn't broken in this game. Seriously.

Dribbling
Passing
Crossing
Defending
Goalkeeping
Animations
Cursor Changing
Ball Physics
A.I. that continually runs away from the ball after it has come right to them.

There is NO SKILL WHATSOEVER involved in this game because konami does 90% of everything for the users.

I've been into detail plenty of times on these so I won't in this post.
There are literally no movements that are consistent in this game. The AI is the only one playing while the user is merely giving ideas. Even when you are on the cursor, you are subject to konami moving you, tackling for you, freezing you etc.

You don't even play the opponent, you spend your time fighting konami's stupid fucking scripted movements/animations.

What's the point?

Seriously....what is the point of playing when the entire system is STILL ON RAILS!

Konami has made failure after failure since 2008. I see some people somehow giving them credit because 2008 was so ridiculously pathetic, anything in comparison looks good.

These people continue to put out turd after turd because apparently nobody else thinks that a game based on the greatest and biggest sport in the world will sell.

If konami can get people to continually buy this shit, then anybody should be able to. Which is exactly why, FIFA, even though spotty itself, is KILLING this joke of a PS2 generation franchise.

I used to love this franchise, now I will be happy when it's dead.

100% you read my mind

Fifa always kills pes in sales.
Even during pes 3 and 5.You want konami to stop making football games?
But then we're left with just one bad football game to play.And personally i've never liked fifa since 98.

you also read my mind... and yes i want konami dead because its better not to play anything instead of paying money and having high expectations and then boom another disappointment...

You'd think not, but history tells us otherwise. The last decent footy title other than EA & Konami's releases was probably Sensible Soccer (The SWOS edition from '94 being the pinnacle of the series). Not the re-hash release for the console, but the proper PC/Amiga release back in the day.

Other than that, what have we had? Fifa Street? The Manchester United series from Krisalis, the brave but flawed Kick-Off from Anco or the woeful many other attempts (special mention to Paul Gascoines game with the dodgy perspective change as you enter the final 3rd of the pitch).

We do really need another serious entrant. With EA's tight grip on the licence there are obvious limitations, but as PES/ISS and the likes of Sensi proved, good gameplay can negate the need for the licence. Regardless of what does happen, there is a real need for a shake-up in the world of soccer entertainment.

i dont know why no third company joined the business but seems like its not an attractive idea for some business man who has the money to gather a good team and get the licenses from ea... they rather buy a real soccer club like they do every year and then sell t-shirts and stuff.. they make loads more i guess :no: :erm:
i dont have hope in konami after this year, and for fifa i lost hope in early 2000... i dont think konami has got the right group to bring back the old days, some people might have left because i dont believe that a group who coded something as good as the mid 2000's series for a couple of years would settle or go backwards in such a way for 5 consecutive years... they suck... as my twin brother above said you just hold the gamepad and the AI plays for you, you can even sleep and then you wake up winning... try it trust me because the other team will fail to score and they will score own goals

 

[Sminky]

You'd think not, but history tells us otherwise. The last decent footy title other than EA & Konami's releases was probably Sensible Soccer (The SWOS edition from '94 being the pinnacle of the series). Not the re-hash release for the console, but the proper PC/Amiga release back in the day.

Other than that, what have we had? Fifa Street? The Manchester United series from Krisalis, the brave but flawed Kick-Off from Anco or the woeful many other attempts (special mention to Paul Gascoines game with the dodgy perspective change as you enter the final 3rd of the pitch).

We do really need another serious entrant. With EA's tight grip on the licence there are obvious limitations, but as PES/ISS and the likes of Sensi proved, good gameplay can negate the need for the licence. Regardless of what does happen, there is a real need for a shake-up in the world of soccer entertainment.

I loved the Manchester United in Europe Amiga game but back then we had other classics such as Sensible Soccer, Striker, World Cup Soccer and the legendary Kick Off.

There's the rub, a dearth of football games being created. The ones that are lack the investment to make something tangibly decent. 2K are regularly bandied around the rumour mills but it's a poisoned chalice going up against FIFA.

 

[fick]

There's the rub, a dearth of football games being created. The ones that are lack the investment to make something tangibly decent. 2K are regularly bandied around the rumour mills but it's a poisoned chalice going up against FIFA.

I can understand the trepidation. Who would take a new entrant seriously? There are too many already sold on EA or Konami (or both) and only a minority who might stray.

The games industry as a whole have tended to stay safe and keep to their stable franchises of late, especially where sports are concerned. What we need is some innovation. What we need are some IT geeks who actually play, let alone understand sport (a rarity, I know). Or perhaps someone with some balls to just take a chance.

I haven't personally purchased a footy title this year and had my better half (no, not you Sminky dear) not bought me FIFA12 then I doubt I would have bothered playing either title. While part of it is the endless whining I read on here, the main part is simply the stagnation of new blood into the genre.

 

[Makavelian]

Actua Soccer 2 <3

 

[MozzyEng]

I can understand the trepidation. Who would take a new entrant seriously? There are too many already sold on EA or Konami (or both) and only a minority who might stray.

The games industry as a whole have tended to stay safe and keep to their stable franchises of late, especially where sports are concerned. What we need is some innovation. What we need are some IT geeks who actually play, let alone understand sport (a rarity, I know). Or perhaps someone with some balls to just take a chance.

I haven't personally purchased a footy title this year and had my better half (no, not you Sminky dear) not bought me FIFA12 then I doubt I would have bothered playing either title. While part of it is the endless whining I read on here, the main part is simply the stagnation of new blood into the genre.

Forget it m8. It will never happen a third party football maker!

 

[Micho]

I can understand the trepidation. Who would take a new entrant seriously? There are too many already sold on EA or Konami (or both) and only a minority who might stray.

The games industry as a whole have tended to stay safe and keep to their stable franchises of late, especially where sports are concerned. What we need is some innovation. What we need are some IT geeks who actually play, let alone understand sport (a rarity, I know). Or perhaps someone with some balls to just take a chance.

I haven't personally purchased a footy title this year and had my better half (no, not you Sminky dear) not bought me FIFA12 then I doubt I would have bothered playing either title. While part of it is the endless whining I read on here, the main part is simply the stagnation of new blood into the genre.

haha i am glad my whining paid of :laugh: :lol:

 

[Steve Justice]

PES 2012 requires intelligence, patience, positioning and timing. That's probably where you're going wrong Micho.

I played it pretty solidly over the weekend on ML, and I'm loving it more and more each time. A very rewarding game once you get to grips with it, and no two games are the same. I've scored some cracking goals, and set up some great goal scoring opportunities, whilst at the same time conceded a few. But this isn't down to the game being sh!t, I conceded due to poor defending on my part.

How people can feel that this game is broken or sh!t is beyond me. Every game has it's flaws, but if you actually can't play the game the way it's meant to be played, then don't play it.

The fact that the AI is more intelligent on the attack, and actually requires you to time your tackles instead of holding down the conservative tackle button, makes the game rewarding. I've got to grips with tackling and I don't get cut through any more. Time you're slide tackles and you won't get pulled up for a foul eveytime.

PES is no longer a pick up and play arcadey footy game, it's an intelligent football simulator, and unless you learn the basics, you're going to get beat. A lot. Basically, unless you're willing to put the effort in and not take a half ar$ed approach, then you will not be able to play this game. Like Micho.

 

[Ali]

PES 2012 requires intelligence, patience, positioning and timing. That's probably where you're going wrong Micho.

I played it pretty solidly over the weekend on ML, and I'm loving it more and more each time. A very rewarding game once you get to grips with it, and no two games are the same. I've scored some cracking goals, and set up some great goal scoring opportunities, whilst at the same time conceded a few. But this isn't down to the game being sh!t, I conceded due to poor defending on my part.

How people can feel that this game is broken or sh!t is beyond me. Every game has it's flaws, but if you actually can't play the game the way it's meant to be played, then don't play it.

The fact that the AI is more intelligent on the attack, and actually requires you to time your tackles instead of holding down the conservative tackle button, makes the game rewarding. I've got to grips with tackling and I don't get cut through any more. Time you're slide tackles and you won't get pulled up for a foul eveytime.

PES is no longer a pick up and play arcadey footy game, it's an intelligent football simulator, and unless you learn the basics, you're going to get beat. A lot. Basically, unless you're willing to put the effort in and not take a half ar$ed approach, then you will not be able to play this game. Like Micho.

This is what irritates me. Don't put all PES 2012 haters in the same category as Micho. I'm a decent PES player but so far, I fucking hate this game.
I think they've ruined it. I feel like I have little control over what my players do. They run towards the ball in an automated fashion, rarely shoot in the direction I tell them to, tap the ball when I hold the pass button, whack the ball when I tap the pass button. To add to that, the scripting is beyond belief.
I just think the game is very bad.... laughably bad in fact.

 

[Steve Justice]

This is what irritates me. Don't put all PES 2012 haters in the same category as Micho. I'm a decent PES player but so far, I fucking hate this game.
I think they've ruined it. I feel like I have little control over what my players do. They run towards the ball in an automated fashion, rarely shoot in the direction I tell them to, tap the ball when I hold the pass button, whack the ball when I tap the pass button. To add to that, the scripting is beyond belief.
I just think the game is very bad.... laughably bad in fact.

Apologies, but I'm only basing my post on my experiences. I have had no problem at all with anything you've mentioned there. Everything responds exactly as I expect it to. Are people really having that much trouble with shooting/scoring? Of course I miss opportunities to score/pass/tackle, but that's down to, again, timing, positioning, power, placement & player stats. I don't see it as a fault with the game, just a more realisitic approach.

 

[markcross]

PES 2012 requires intelligence, patience, positioning and timing. That's probably where you're going wrong Micho.

I played it pretty solidly over the weekend on ML, and I'm loving it more and more each time. A very rewarding game once you get to grips with it, and no two games are the same. I've scored some cracking goals, and set up some great goal scoring opportunities, whilst at the same time conceded a few. But this isn't down to the game being sh!t, I conceded due to poor defending on my part.

How people can feel that this game is broken or sh!t is beyond me. Every game has it's flaws, but if you actually can't play the game the way it's meant to be played, then don't play it.

The fact that the AI is more intelligent on the attack, and actually requires you to time your tackles instead of holding down the conservative tackle button, makes the game rewarding. I've got to grips with tackling and I don't get cut through any more. Time you're slide tackles and you won't get pulled up for a foul eveytime.

PES is no longer a pick up and play arcadey footy game, it's an intelligent football simulator, and unless you learn the basics, you're going to get beat. A lot. Basically, unless you're willing to put the effort in and not take a half ar$ed approach, then you will not be able to play this game. Like Micho.

this post makes alot of good points, well said dude u got the game spot on

 

[Ali]

Apologies, but I'm only basing my post on my experiences. I have had no problem at all with anything you've mentioned there. Everything responds exactly as I expect it to. Are people really having that much trouble with shooting/scoring? Of course I miss opportunities to score/pass/tackle, but that's down to, again, timing, positioning, power, placement & player stats. I don't see it as a fault with the game, just a more realisitic approach.

I think the shooting is just woeful in every way possible. Part of me thinks that Konami made it that way to counteract the crapness of the keepers. I don't think timing has anything to do with it.
In your previous post, you mentioned the intelligence of the AI. I'll completely disagree with that. For example, several times I've seen the AI just boot the ball out of play for no good reason.

 

[Steve Justice]

I think the shooting is just woeful in every way possible. Part of me thinks that Konami made it that way to counteract the crapness of the keepers. I don't think timing has anything to do with it.
In your previous post, you mentioned the intelligence of the AI. I'll completely disagree with that. For example, several times I've seen the AI just boot the ball out of play for no good reason.

What difficulty are you playing on? I've noticed them do this (albeit under pressure) on regular, but I haven't seen it once on Pro or Top Player.

 

[redz123]

PES 2012 requires saint like patience. There is so much wrong with it, i don't even know where to start. Passing has become redundant when players can just dribble through other players with such ease, there's no flow to the game as the slightest touch results in a foul. PES 2012 is, for the consoles its on and the advancements made in gaming, not only the WORST football game ever created, its one of the worst games ever made. FIFA, the organisation not the EA game, should charge KONAMI with crimes against football.

 

[Steve Justice]

PES 2012 requires saint like patience. There is so much wrong with it, i don't even know where to start. Passing has become redundant when players can just dribble through other players with such ease, there's no flow to the game as the slightest touch results in a foul. PES 2012 is, for the consoles its on and the advancements made in gaming, not only the WORST football game ever created, its one of the worst games ever made. FIFA, the organisation not the EA game, should charge KONAMI with crimes against football.

They dribble through your payers, and you get pulled up for a foul because you are not defending as the game intends and expects you to defend (i.e. don't hold the tackle button), and you're not timing it right.

I get 1-3 yellow cards per game on average. I also very rarely put myself in a positition where my keeper is left in a one-on-one situation. I'm not trying to be big headed, or say that you're sh!t, but seriously, concentrate on learning to defend and you'll get there.