Ronaldo (Brazilian)

[Superbeard]

Messi has YEARS left to play, Ronaldo's career is over.

Who knows what Messi will go on to achieve throughout his career?

Messi will probably win more CL's and La Liga titles. This is mostly down to the team that he plays in though. Only one team can seriously say they're competition, and they got raped last year a few times by Barcelona. Messi is great, but Barcelona are greater.

I dont think his brilliance is overshadowed by his team mates at all and if you seriously think Messi wouldn't rip up the English Premier League you have underestimated the man's talent enormously. Look at what Silva is doing to every team he faces in the EPL right now and he's half the player Messi is. Misty eyed nostalgia can make us forget that players like Ronaldo had their faults and bad periods of form just like every other player.

Messi would be superb in the PL. Would he get 45 goals a season? I doubt it. We'll have to agree to disagree here, but I think he'd be less amazing in good team, as oppposed to one of the best sides ever.
Silva is the one people are messing themselves over here at the moment, you're quite correct. He's very good, but there are better in the PL in my opinion. There are better at Man City. Silva is performing at an extremely high level at the moment though, that's for sure.

Only when Messi's career is over will we truly be able to compare his career to Ronaldo's and if Messi stays injury free he has every chance of overtaking all of Ronaldo's achievements in the game.

No he won't. He won't score 15 in World Cups, and he won't win 2 either.

I think you should just face the fact that in international football (the true acid test of the greats - hard to name greats who only made their name in club football) he's been very disappointing. He's had 2 World Cups, and hardly made an impact in either.
And it's not like he didn't have a very good team behind him in both either.

 

[aterrell5]

Thanks for sharing

 

[pj_puttz]

No he won't. He won't score 15 in World Cups, and he won't win 2 either.

How can I argue with a man who can predict the future?

 

[abu97]

That's arguable. France had an incredible defence, and Ribery, Malouda (don't laugh!) and Henry were just as influential in getting them there (won 2 pens, scored against Brazil). Don't forget Henry had just come out of his best ever season for Arsenal - he should have been Ballon D'or winner that year.

People crack that French side to be all about Zidane, it really wasn't. Vieira, Makelele, Henry, Thuram, Ribery, Gallas, Sagnol, Abidal. All top class players. Zidane made it tick, but he was supported by some great players, a lot of them in their peak too.

It isn't arguable - Look at France in the Euro 2008. Only some players weren't in there like Thuram but ZIDANE wasn't there. Look at how bad they did. Another example is when France were qualifying for The WC 2006 and they wre struggling and only just got in there and this was when Zidane retired. After they struggled to get in, Zidane came out from retirement to help them eventhough they had a great defence and ribery and henry on both occasions. So it isn't because of the great team they had, it's because of Zidane. I mean, Henry hardly did anything in the world cup and ribery did jack crap apart from some passes. That proves when someone like Zidane comes into the side, he just changes the team's mechanism.

Watch this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIf07gQAbGM

This proves how much a 34yr old can do in one match all by himself (it was also one of his last few matches for France)

 

[Superbeard]

How can I argue with a man who can predict the future?

Ok, it's extremely unlikely he'll do that - as good as saying he will not do that.

If he does, I'll roast and eat my cat.

 

[Superbeard]

It isn't arguable - Look at France in the Euro 2008. Only some players weren't in there like Thuram but ZIDANE wasn't there. Look at how bad they did. Another example is when France were qualifying for The WC 2006 and they wre struggling and only just got in there and this was when Zidane retired. After they struggled to get in, Zidane came out from retirement to help them eventhough they had a great defence and ribery and henry on both occasions. So it isn't because of the great team they had, it's because of Zidane. I mean, Henry hardly did anything in the world cup and ribery did jack crap apart from some passes. That proves when someone like Zidane comes into the side, he just changes the team's mechanism.

Watch this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIf07gQAbGM

This proves how much a 34yr old can do in one match all by himself (it was also one of his last few matches for France)

Henry did nothing, apart from winning the free kick against Brazil and scoring that game. And scoring against Spain, and getting Puyol sent off. And winning the penalty against Portugal. And also setting up the penalty that Malouda won in the Final against Italy with a great pass. And being the top scorer for France along with Zidane, even though he didn't take penalties.

And France were in danger of not qualifying if you remember correctly. The drew their first two matches playing terribly with Zidane on the pitch. They won their last group game to qualify for the latter stages. Guess who didn't play that game?

Zidane was utter class. Utter class. That French team was great though. In 2008 a lot of them had either got too old; Henry, Makelele, Thuram (who was in the squad actually) or were too rubbish; Clerc, Gouvou, Nasri (who only recently has performed well for his country).

Look, Zidane made a difference, but that World Cup was not all about him. It was the last hurrah for a lot of the all conquering early noughties side - full of class.

 

[abu97]

If you watched the video, henry didn't really help apart from score

 

[Superbeard]

If you watched the video, henry didn't really help apart from score

The video that showed pure Zidane, and nothing else?

Yes, that's what the video showed. A classic bit of Youtube football editing there. Zidane undoubtedly MotM, but Henry hardly "didn't really help apart from score".

 

[zzidane]

I've gotta say I agree with Abu. Ok I may seem biased because my username is zzidane and I'm obviously a fan, but the reason I'm a fan is because of the player Zidane was, and because of the huge influence he had on the teams he played for.

It's hard to say what would of happened if Zidane wasn't in the French team at World Cup 06, but IMO I don't think France would have gotten past Brazil. I remember the France v Brazil game like it was yesterday and I have to say that was the most stand out performance by any one player in a match I have ever seen, and I think it was Zidane's greatest ever match. He totally made that game his own, he controlled every part of the game, orchestrated the whole match, and he made France tick, without him in that I don't think France could have controlled the match the way they did. He was absolute perfection in that match, he slowed down the pace of the game when France needed to sit and hold onto the ball and keep possession, he was the artist that painted the picture in that game.

I think without Zidane in that match it would of been a 50/50 game and could have swung anyway. Of course there where many great French players in that team and nothing should be taken away from them (I'm an Arsenal fan by the way and a big Henry/Vieira fan etc.) he had great players surrounding him in that team, and he needed those calibre of players around him to do what he did, but without him in there they just wouldnt have ticked, they wouldn't have been able to control games the way they did.

 

[wheresmark]

Messi is amazing... but would not be without Xavi and iniesta and co. Both of those two are more important to Barca than Messi is. Flair players always get the plaudits though.

 

[asifalii]

I too am a big fan of Ronaldo and past super-star players.

All I have done is Basecopied him as he is, then I edit the player at Corinthians to a 21 year old, edit his Physique to be 75KG and reduce the size of his head - so not as fat - then edit his stats to 94 Speed and Agility etc... make sure you up his Stamina too.

This way, you keep the Pre-Set Face - no need to re-create using formulas.

Transfer him to Barcelona and give him the No.9 Shirt.

Awesome.

when you go to edit you can see team of Corinthians?? so how we can copy the bas how to move ronaldo to brazil clasics or any other team

 

[Sabatasso]

Messi is amazing... but would not be without Xavi and iniesta and co. Both of those two are more important to Barca than Messi is. Flair players always get the plaudits though.

That's probably the most pseudo intelligent post I've read this year.
It sounds plausible, but is clearly wrong. Messi singlehandedly obliterated Brazil this month, scoring an impressive hat-trick and recently Spain has clearly showed that they lack a Messi-type to pull off their current play style properly.

I'd go as far as to say that Xavi and Iniesta were always good, but Messi completes them.

 

[R9NALD9]

That's probably the most pseudo intelligent post I've read this year.
It sounds plausible, but is clearly wrong. Messi singlehandedly obliterated Brazil this month, scoring an impressive hat-trick and recently Spain has clearly showed that they lack a Messi-type to pull off their current play style properly.

I'd go as far as to say that Xavi and Iniesta were always good, but Messi completes them.

It was against Brazil's olympic team...

For the Zidane argument, although a brilliant player, he is overrated IMO. Juventus had no trouble replacing him when he left...Nedved easily filled the void. Zidane never made a lot of assists, but he was great at dictating play.

If I had to put together an all time team, Zidane wouldn't be anywhere near it.

I agree with Spearbeard that Messi needs to prove himself either at an international tournament bar the Olympics, or in another league. Ronaldo has done both, he dominated the Brazil league, then the Holland league, then Spanish league, after that the Italian league...plus it was in the years where guys weren't nearly as protected as they are today. Especially the Italian league, would love to see what Cristiano Ronaldo and Messi can achieve in the 90's Serie A.

Back then you couldn't just go down for nothing and be guaranteed a foul.

Anyways, for any of you looking to create a primtime Ronaldo, check this link out.

Best face for him ever:

http://www.pesgaming.com/showpost.php?p=1857784&postcount=64

 

[Sabatasso]

I agree with Spearbeard that Messi needs to prove himself either at an international tournament bar the Olympics, or in another league.

The Spanish league ain't good enough for you?
It's only the best league in the world...

Best face for him ever:

http://www.pesgaming.com/showpost.php?p=1857784&postcount=64

It lacks a massive tooth gap.

 

[R9NALD9]

The Spanish league ain't good enough for you?
It's only the best league in the world...

I never said the Spanish League wasn't good enough or bad...
You need to prover yourself in more than one team whether it's national or international or multiple leagues if you want to be considered to be the best.

 

[Sabatasso]

Messi has proven himself in the Champions League, asking for more is just pathetic.

Messi 11/12
60 matches 73 goals and 29 assists.

Ronaldo 96/97
49 matches 47 goals

It's pure pwnage...

And according to your requirements, Giggs was never really one of the best...

 

[R9NALD9]

Messi has proven himself in the Champions League, asking for more is just pathetic.

Messi 11/12
60 matches 73 goals and 29 assists.

Ronaldo 96/97
49 matches 47 goals

It's pure pwnage...

And according to your requirements, Giggs was never really one of the best...

I never said Messi was poor, nor a good player. But if you want to be remembered next to the likes of Pele and Maradona then yes you can't just prove yourself with one of the best club teams to ever play the game while playing poorly internationally.

Giggs is a brilliant player, but no he isn't a legend on the scale of Pele, Maradona, Van Basten etc.

And concerning the stats, yes Messi has awesome stats...but then again football has changed quite a bit the last decade or so where the emphasis is waaaay more on attacking, also the reason why we see so many more 5-0 etc. scorelines. Not taking anything away from Messi, he is the best player of his generation...I'm simply trying to say, if he wants to be mentioned in the same breath as Maradona and the likes, he needs to do something in either other leagues or internationally.

If we go according to stats, then Pele is only the 4th best player behind Josef Bican, Gerd Muller and Arthur Friedenreich. How many people know of Bican and Arthur Friedenreich? Stats isn't everything man. There was somethine very special about Ronaldo in the 90's before his injuries.

Anyone that watched him play back then would tell you the same. There was a certain amount of surrealness surrounding him. Here is a couple of quotes from fellow professionals:

“He’s the best striker I’ve ever seen.”
Lionel Messi

“Ronaldo is the man and I don’t care what y’all say. [He’s the] best striker ever, hands down, and anyone who doesn’t agree has problems.”
Jozy Altidore

“He went to Holland, Spain and Italy and enhanced the reputation of Brazilian football in all three countries. He came back home and breathed new life into the Brazilian championship and Corinthians. Brazilian people should be grateful for what he’s done for our football.”
Pele

“He was a one-off in terms of ability and had the skill to turn a half-chance into an incredible goalscoring opportunity. He was phenomenal when one-on-one with the goalkeeper. Those who saw him play know what I’m talking about. It’s not easy to put it into words, but I’m not exaggerating by any means.”
Zinedine Zidane

“I’d like to have played alongside him, because I’d have been able to put him through on goal all the time. He’s always in the right place to receive the ball and he thinks really quickly. It wasn’t by chance that he was the world’s best player on several occasions. He also did his bit for A Seleção, being a part of two World Cup wins and one second place. He even went on to become the highest scorer in World Cup history. That was a phenomenal feat, in keeping with his nickname.”
Zico

Look at Ibrahimovic's reaction when he played against Ronaldo for the first time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrebiAuO8o0&feature=player_embedded

Absolutely admiration from one of today's most talented players.

Plus when Maldini retired, he said Maradona and Ronaldo in his prime was the 2 most difficult players he ever faced.

Messi will be remembered as greater as Ronaldo, simply because Ronaldo's career was totally lost with all the injuries. Have those injuries not happened, he probably would've been the best player to ever play the game.

 

[MozzyEng]

Well said R9NALD9. I reckon messi is to "comfy" at barcelona. What would happen if they sold him to man city? Or Juventus? would his arse drop out like it does when he plays for argentina?. Great players prove themselves on the international stage as well as various leagues. Great players do it everywhere!. Messi is playing for the best footballing team ever, And is suited to it. I love watching him but id like to see him conquer other leagues and dominate world cups. Come on lionel, You done all you can at barca. Lets see what you can do for Liverpool!!!. Now if i had to pick between cristiano ronaldo or messi, I would pick cris. Simply because he can do it anywhere, In any league proven. Im not saying he's better, But i want a player who i know can do the business on any stage. Anyhow brazilian ronaldo......Best striker ever.......

 

[Sabatasso]

And concerning the stats, yes Messi has awesome stats...but then again football has changed quite a bit the last decade or so where the emphasis is waaaay more on attacking, also the reason why we see so many more 5-0 etc. scorelines.

Bullshit. If it was "massive attacking" that was instrumental in his stats, then more players than C.Ronaldo and Messi would score more than one goal per game. None others come close, so your argument falls for its own reasoning.

Messi is already up there with Maradona, he passed Pelé a few years ago.

Mind you, Pelé was great when football still was a "walking around" sport. No players of that era really impress anyone of todays game.
Maradona did his stuff at the dawn of modern football, which is the only reason he's still being talked about in the same breath as Messi and C.Ronaldo.

“He’s the best striker I’ve ever seen.”
Lionel Messi

“Ronaldo is the man and I don’t care what y’all say. [He’s the] best striker ever, hands down, and anyone who doesn’t agree has problems.”
Jozy Altidore

“He went to Holland, Spain and Italy and enhanced the reputation of Brazilian football in all three countries. He came back home and breathed new life into the Brazilian championship and Corinthians. Brazilian people should be grateful for what he’s done for our football.”
Pele

“He was a one-off in terms of ability and had the skill to turn a half-chance into an incredible goalscoring opportunity. He was phenomenal when one-on-one with the goalkeeper. Those who saw him play know what I’m talking about. It’s not easy to put it into words, but I’m not exaggerating by any means.”
Zinedine Zidane

“I’d like to have played alongside him, because I’d have been able to put him through on goal all the time. He’s always in the right place to receive the ball and he thinks really quickly. It wasn’t by chance that he was the world’s best player on several occasions. He also did his bit for A Seleção, being a part of two World Cup wins and one second place. He even went on to become the highest scorer in World Cup history. That was a phenomenal feat, in keeping with his nickname.”
Zico

Look at Ibrahimovic's reaction when he played against Ronaldo for the first time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrebiAuO8o0&feature=player_embedded

Absolutely admiration from one of today's most talented players.

Everybody speaks highly of talented players, and everybody exaggerates when said person is sickly. I never denied Ronaldo's talent, and I think it's most likely wasted as well. His fat problem and injury problems took care of that. I was merely saying that Messi is much better, obviously even a more lethal goalscorer which the stats clearly reveal. Messi don't need to prove anything else, he merely need to maintain a reasonable form for a few more years to increase his already legendary status.

By stating that players have to prove themselves both on club and international level, you're denying every fucking talent who comes from a nation with a poor national team. Don't you realize how utterly unintelligent and stupid such requirement is in the first place?

Football is football, and the best clubs are better than the best national teams, so international football is not a requirement when measuring who's best. One or the other is enough, be it international club football, international football or domestic football, as long as the level is reasonable.

Some players are even considered legends just by having a single good WC tournament and an average career. There's no point in requiring more of some than others.

Pelé for example, played his entire career in a relatively weak league, so again by your standards he's not a legend.

 

[OCKRASS]

Bullshit. If it was "massive attacking" that was instrumental in his stats, then more players than C.Ronaldo and Messi would score more than one goal per game. None others come close, so your argument falls for its own reasoning.

Messi is already up there with Maradona, he passed Pelé a few years ago.

Mind you, Pelé was great when football still was a "walking around" sport. No players of that era really impress anyone of todays game.
Maradona did his stuff at the dawn of modern football, which is the only reason he's still being talked about in the same breath as Messi and C.Ronaldo.



Everybody speaks highly of talented players, and everybody exaggerates when said person is sickly. I never denied Ronaldo's talent, and I think it's most likely wasted as well. His fat problem and injury problems took care of that. I was merely saying that Messi is much better, obviously even a more lethal goalscorer which the stats clearly reveal. Messi don't need to prove anything else, he merely need to maintain a reasonable form for a few more years to increase his already legendary status.

By stating that players have to prove themselves both on club and international level, you're denying every fucking talent who comes from a nation with a poor national team. Don't you realize how utterly unintelligent and stupid such requirement is in the first place?

Football is football, and the best clubs are better than the best national teams, so international football is not a requirement when measuring who's best. One or the other is enough, be it international club football, international football or domestic football, as long as the level is reasonable.

Some players are even considered legends just by having a single good WC tournament and an average career. There's no point in requiring more of some than others.

Pelé for example, played his entire career in a relatively weak league, so again by your standards he's not a legend.

Not to take sides here....but have some solid points here.

The one point which is 100% fact that should resonate across the entire forum is that great players are not measured by their international or club affiliates. Messi is great anywhere you play him....so was Ronaldo.

Pele played for Brazil, Santos and the New York Metros. The teams never made him a great player...he made the teams better by playing on them. The reason why Pele is considered the greatest player in footballs' history is because he brought a unique style to football. He was a pioneer in tricks, dribbles and styles never seen before in the sport....he created them. He made the number on his shirt (10) famous.

These unique styles were then copied by his successor ..like Maradona, one of the most skillful players of all time. Maradona was awarded the number 10 jersey because of ....well lets face it Pele's skills. The number 10 usually indicates the most skillful player on the team....take a look at past and present players wearing the 10 jerseys.

Next ...the debate of who is better than who is really redundant. You cannot deny talent once you see it. From Pele right down to ..well let even say Neymar. Our focus always seems to lock onto CF and ST. What about other positions on the field.

My point is basic, depending on the decade we have seen some spectacular performances on the field with these players. No one in their right mind should questions Messi's skills ...nor should they question Ronaldo's either (BRA). They are/were undoubtedly great great players. Football has not changed that much, whatever the circumstance in defensive or attacking stances ....unique players always shine.

Baresi, Best, Didi, Platini, Hagi, Varela, Iniesta, Xavi, Zico, Van Basten, Matthaus, Romario, Stoichkov, Krol, Dalglish, Gullit, Maldini, Henry, Baggio, Figo..... and of course not to mention Ronaldinho Gaúcho the best i have seen in my days.

Many Many more can be named..