1st Half Thailand 2 Spain 1 Pro Evo 09 Top Player

[MysteryMan]

What are you, looking for a pat on the back here? Congratulations! You guessed correctly the 1 in 3 chance that Russia would win against Holland!

I think you need to get glasses or get ur brain examined because nobody said Russia has a 1 in 3 chance to beat Holland , I said they won 1:3 and it was 1:1 after 90 minutes which prooves the game was pretty even.
And secondly I said that Russia will win which states that I had a pretty good idea why and how Russia has a chance against Holland.

Congratulations! You just beat the BEST team with Thailand(who by the way will be 10x better than you will ever be) against the COMPUTER. I mean, AI's in games will always be beat, but wow, that must mean you're like the best pro evo player in the world huh?
Why don't you play against a real-life pro with thailand (with arrows down by the way since you think they're so bad) against spain (with all arrows up) and see how you do and see if the game is realistic then. 90% of teams in the WORLD can't beat them right now, that's why they're EURO CHAMPS.

Again buy glasses or get ur head examined , I never even played thailand and spain , and even the OP didn't play but let AI play on both sides as far as I know,
you can't even understand what is going on in this thread and your trying to make a point against me? Pathetic..

You believe in upsets but don't think that Spain would even lose ONE game out of 100 they play against Thailand? What do you think UPSETS ARE? Such stupidity!

No.
Spain would completely destroy thailand with their current form any time anywhere.
Last time I checked the Asian qualifiers for the WC thailand didn't win a single match , infact now that I checked it in detail Japan destroyed them twice and they lost to Oman twice and lost and drew to Bahrain , and you are seriously here claiming that Thailand could beat Spain? You must be out of your mind..

The game strives for realism but that doesn't mean we impose trivial expectations on the game. Do you also nitpick on the fact that you can transfer players at will or the fact that you can make a no-name player god-like or turn a world-class player into crap by changing numbers in the game? How about the fact that you can control players by watching them in bird's eye view? Please, learn some self-restraint next time you post and save us from reading your stupid comments.

Seems to me you don't even have a clue whats happening in this thread or who posted it yet alone that you made a single valid point , your the stupid one.

 

[MysteryMan]

I hoenstly don't believe that - which I am entitled to do - and you shouldn't waste your breath trying to convince me of anything else.

Holland came into Euro 08 as a heavy, heavy favorite. Especially after the dominant matches agains't the World Cup final teams Italy and France.

However, Russia had been a surprise in the Qualifiers and did well in the group stage, despite being demolished by Spain.

But I don't believe that anyone REALLY figured Russia to beat Holland. Sure, people might've HOPED for it or thought that Russia could surprise yet again but not a secure win.

I did , and for good reason.

1. Russia despite playing equal games as holland was in top form , the players had great conditioning and not only because the Russians are known to be tough and have great condition but also because the Russian league ended a lot sooner than other leagues.
2. Russians posed a serious threat to Holland and as far as the defence is concerned holland didn't have a world class defence yet the Russians are all very fast and have very dangerous counterattacks , the only true wall that needed to be climbed was Van Der Saar.
3. Hidding is very smart and he is also from holland so he knows their style of play incredibly well and knows their weaknesses.

All in all the game was pretty even until the orange machine started loosing steam and in the OT it showed very well and the Russians were victorious.


Despite these odds most people would favour holland because they showed great attractive soccer in the group stage but anyone smart would know that it would be very hard for holland especially if they don't score in the first 60 or so minutes or even concede a goal which they did.

 

[martyl2]

Well you have a lot of critics in this thread mysteryman and it seems you must stand back and swallow your pride. What I have gathered thus far in this thread is your inability to admit that upsets occur in football. Your view is totally unrealistic and is not relevant or valid. Perhaps you just don't understand the game of football, anyway my opinion, and well since your views have been criticized rigorously I would if I were you stop arguing against a brick wall and admit your failings.

 

[MysteryMan]

Well you have a lot of critics in this thread mysteryman and it seems you must stand back and swallow your pride. What I have gathered thus far in this thread is your inability to admit that upsets occur in football. Your view is totally unrealistic and is not relevant or valid. Perhaps you just don't understand the game of football, anyway my opinion, and well since your views have been criticized rigorously I would if I were you stop arguing against a brick wall and admit your failings.

I know alot more about soccer than you ever will.

Upsets happen in a matter of Columbia beating France or Croatia beating Germany.
Someone like Lichenstein can never upset Germany or France or Spain or Brazil ... its nearly impossible to ever happen in 50 years , yet it happens in PES alot , almost more than vice versa , are you capable of understanding that or do I have to spell it for you?

And for the record I don't have alot of "critics".
I already explained to others what exactly I mean , the only ppl that critisize me are not capable of understanding what I mean or don't even know what the hell is happening in this thread at all like that guy above.

 

[Ravex]

are you capable of understanding that or do I have to spell it for you?

You really oughta learn to spell yourself if you're gonna bring those silly remarks.

(Referring to Lichtenstein and Colombia)

And upsets DO happen.

 

[martyl2]

I know alot more about soccer than you ever will.

Upsets happen in a matter of Columbia beating France or Croatia beating Germany.
Someone like Lichenstein can never upset Germany or France or Spain or Brazil ... its nearly impossible to ever happen in 50 years , yet it happens in PES alot , almost more than vice versa , are you capable of understanding that or do I have to spell it for you?

And for the record I don't have alot of "critics".
I already explained to others what exactly I mean , the only ppl that critisize me are not capable of understanding what I mean or don't even know what the hell is happening in this thread at all like that guy above.

How can you make such rash statements? Let us all enjoy football and pes instead of turning this thread into a meaningless trivial competition about who knows more. Anyway judging by you calling football "soccer" i really do laugh because I can't think of many people bar Americans who refer to it as "soccer." Rookie

In terms of your critics argument have you looked at the opposition against you. Its ok to be wrong.

 

[MysteryMan]

How can you make such rash statements? Let us all enjoy football and pes instead of turning this thread into a meaningless trivial competition about who knows more. Anyway judging by you calling football "soccer" i really do laugh because I can't think of many people bar Americans who refer to it as "soccer." Rookie

In terms of your critics argument have you looked at the opposition against you. Its ok to be wrong.

And who told you im american? Another statement that is completely wrong which you seem to have pulled out of nowhere.

And im only claiming what is true and if you don't agree its your problem like its my problem if I don't agree with you, we all are entitled to our own opinion so I really don't see why I should admit something I think is wrong because of " who " my opposition is.
Now let me ask you a simple question regarding this topic and if you can answer then I will agree with you right?
When in the last 10 years was a soccer superpower like Brazil , Argentine , Spain.. defeated by one of the worst national soccer teams in the world? Because you still fail to see the point that it happens in PES very frequently , if you play two teams like Brasil and Austria , Brasil might win 5 or 6 times and lose the rest, thats because PES has some system that makes a team alot better sometimes and the other alot weaker and vice versa , and I think the system is very wrong because it just makes a weak team win similar times as the strong team, they should change this system somehow so it just focuses on the form of the team and sometimes make them play worse or be unlucky , however in PES its not about luck that those weaker teams win , they win by outplaying them and I did alot of test about this and lets all be serious there is just no way , no way that a team like thailand would ever outplay a superpower in soccer , they could only get lucky very few times and thats my whole point in this thread which many seem to overlook.

 

[Baddar]

Stop the petty arguing guys.

Keeping it to a friendly debate is fine, but throwing out insults about spelling is not.

And Ravex, where I come from, it's "Liechtenstein" by the way, so again ...stop the attacks on spelling just to "win" the argument.

Keep the debates for the board, and the squabbling for PM's.

Thank you.

 

[dicky_t]

good for you mysteryman for sticking to your guns and putting your oppinoin accross even when everyone seems against you

and to throw further argument into it who the f**k has thailand ever beat?

name me one decent team?

ok then name one poor team they beat

do they actually have a football team

i know upsets happen in football but your talking about a proffessional team at their top of their game ,with national pride at stake now if you said the game finnished 1-1 then thats understandable that is slightly beleiveable

but to say thailand can beat spain is like manchester utd getting beat off my pub team

 

[martyl2]

Just to note a few examples, In the 2002 World Wup World Champions at the time France were defeated 1-0 by Senegal....Although Greece are not one of the worst teams in the world they are certainly one of the weaker sides, their 1-0 win over European Champions France Euro 2004 which eventually led them to winning the tournament. It is worth noting that shocks happen everywhere in football.

A most recent example is yesterday. Celtic beat St Mirren 7-0 last week. This week they lost 1-0, a major shock in the Scottish League.

I don't think its a case that PES makes the weaker team better, it really depends on the ability of the PES player. While we can agree that the ability of a team is important in determining the outcome of a match it is worth noting that a much more important factor is how good that particular player is at PES, don't you think?

 

[martyl2]

Just to note a few examples, In the 2002 World Cup, World Champions at the time France were defeated 1-0 by Senegal....Although Greece are not one of the worst teams in the world they are certainly one of the weaker sides, their 1-0 win over European Champions France Euro 2004 which eventually led them to winning the tournament. It is worth noting that shocks happen everywhere in football.

A most recent example is yesterday. Celtic beat St Mirren 7-0 last week. This week they lost 1-0, a major shock in the Scottish League.

I don't think its a case that PES makes the weaker team better, it really depends on the ability of the PES player. While we can agree that the ability of a team is important in determining the outcome of a match it is worth noting that a much more important factor is how good that particular player is at PES, don't you think?

 

[MysteryMan]

Just to note a few examples, In the 2002 World Cup, World Champions at the time France were defeated 1-0 by Senegal....Although Greece are not one of the worst teams in the world they are certainly one of the weaker sides, their 1-0 win over European Champions France Euro 2004 which eventually led them to winning the tournament. It is worth noting that shocks happen everywhere in football.

A most recent example is yesterday. Celtic beat St Mirren 7-0 last week. This week they lost 1-0, a major shock in the Scottish League.

I don't think its a case that PES makes the weaker team better, it really depends on the ability of the PES player. While we can agree that the ability of a team is important in determining the outcome of a match it is worth noting that a much more important factor is how good that particular player is at PES, don't you think?

Senegal has a pretty decent team , Greece in 2004 was all about the defence and a bit of luck and their team was actually pretty solid, here we are talking about really the worst teams atm on the world beating the best.

Again its not about the player , im talking about the AI , putting 2 AI teams against each other.

 

[iamcanadianeh]

Mystery Man >> let's say you're correct, and this a result of "crap AI"...

What's the big deal? Is it really that surprising? It's a video game, and for one thing they don't make the bad teams as bad as they maybe are because they know they are selling to people in that market (right?). I brought team Canada to the Semis of the World Cup on Top Player in BAL, and they are a terrible team. Did I complain about how unrealistic it was? No, I was glad they made the team decent enough so that I could use them still. Maybe it's unrealistic, sure, but it really isn't such a shocker in my opinion. I don't get why this is still being discussed, when it is clearly a non-issue. How many other sports games can you think of where you can always get accurate results when the AI plays (without scripting, I mean)? And moreover, why should I care? I'm human and I play against the CPU or other humans. I can't see this ever ruining the game experience to any major degree unless I'm taking it all way to seriously.

 

[martyl2]

Again its not about the player , im talking about the AI , putting 2 AI teams against each other.

Well Pro Evo has never been intended for the AI to play the AI. Its like football manager is designed for you to manage the team. Pro evo is designed for you to play the game yourself. What is the point of being critical of Ai vs Ai matches when you would never actually play the game like that.

 

[MysteryMan]

Well Pro Evo has never been intended for the AI to play the AI. Its like football manager is designed for you to manage the team. Pro evo is designed for you to play the game yourself. What is the point of being critical of Ai vs Ai matches when you would never actually play the game like that.

One word : BAL

In become a legend you can be at the best of clubs like Barca or Man Utd and your players sometimes get overplayed by very weak clubs and then you win against a club like Liverpool easly 3:0 or so , and all this is very frustrating and one of the reasons why I seriously dislike BAL , but its the first try so lets hope they make it much better next year.

 

[martyl2]

One word : BAL

In become a legend you can be at the best of clubs like Barca or Man Utd and your players sometimes get overplayed by very weak clubs and then you win against a club like Liverpool easly 3:0 or so , and all this is very frustrating and one of the reasons why I seriously dislike BAL , but its the first try so lets hope they make it much better next year.

In fairness it is important to consider that PES is only a video game. I don't know what you were expecting, to play for a big team and it not to be a challenge? There is no point in that case, even if your team has better players, u want a good challenging game, if it wasn't like this the game would be dull and would not be rewarding

 

[iamcanadianeh]

In fairness it is important to consider that PES is only a video game. I don't know what you were expecting, to play for a big team and it not to be a challenge? There is no point in that case, even if your team has better players, u want a good challenging game, if it wasn't like this the game would be dull and would not be rewarding

I agree. Moreover, it is very clear to me that BAL has been intentionally designed that way. The player needs to "carry the team." It should be quite obvious to you that this was done on purpose if you have played either of the previous two versions of BAL on the PS2 (that's right, it's the 3rd version, not the first). In previous versions (J League Fantasista) the stats increased differently (no "strengthen") and your team-mates, in general, performed better than they do in PES 09.

I for one preferred it that way, but part of the reason for the change in 09, I believe :erm: is linked to the new stats system. Now, in 09, your BAL stats increase is more directly linked to how many games you play, and that of course it linked to how well your team does. In Fantasista it was more linked to your individual performance... So, you can imagine why Konami made it so that you have to carry the team if you want to build up your player stats. Otherwise, you could just be getting rewarded for playing on a good team that would be winning things irregardless of whether you're on the team or not. It all doesn't work very well IMO, and will likely be reverted back in the next 1-2 versions to the way it was in Fantasista; but I agree in that I appreciate the challenge.

Mystery Man, I think, is confusing his BAL experience with CPU vs CPU play. It's a common belief - on this forum, anyway - that BAL does not play the same as CPU vs CPU. I wouldn't treat those two things as the same issue, since most people would agree that in BAL your team clearly underperforms when you're in the lineup (I can't remember in which thread, but this theory has been tested and found to be very likely the case). I would argue though, that in the long run once you become a better player, that you can achieve great things in BAL on Top Player, and even get to the point where your team is actually much more likely to win when you play than when you don't. It's a challenge, but it's achievable to be first in the league, win cups, major honours, etc., and again, although I think it would be better if they reverted things to the way they were on the PS2, I appreciate the challenge in BAL on PES 09, even though I have thrown the controller against the wall a few times... :happy:

 

[MysteryMan]

In fairness it is important to consider that PES is only a video game. I don't know what you were expecting, to play for a big team and it not to be a challenge? There is no point in that case, even if your team has better players, u want a good challenging game, if it wasn't like this the game would be dull and would not be rewarding

So my team in BAL playing like headless chickens is supposed to be challenging and good?
A teammate with the ball running STRAIGHT into the opposing player losing the ball and then m team conceding a goal for that is challenging and fun?
Goalkeeper running towards the ball when opposing player sends a troughout pass then stoping and running back like he had no brain so the attacking player gets to the ball is challenging and fun?
Me oppening 1000 100% oppurtunity's for my players and them missing horribly is fun and challenging? Once I got a really good position and dribbled the defending player the goalie ran towards me and I passed the ball to my teammate who had goal basicaly completely open and he instead of running towards the ball slided towards it and kicked it completely away and this happens almost all the time , instead of him running towards the ball he slides and kicks it like a retard.
And don't give me this bullshit that its only a game , even PES 6 had alot smarter AI and players , whether or not it is realistic is not a argument here but I just told you some things that clearly show that the AI sometimes plays like there were chimps on the field instead of people , and this is NOT normal and it is NOT acceptable , there are alot of bugs and so in other games aswell , its no real life but I really don't remember when was the last time I played a game ( except PES08 ) with such dumb AI sometimes that seriously makes u think it was made by 5 year olds.

 

[martyl2]

So my team in BAL playing like headless chickens is supposed to be challenging and good?
A teammate with the ball running STRAIGHT into the opposing player losing the ball and then m team conceding a goal for that is challenging and fun?
Goalkeeper running towards the ball when opposing player sends a troughout pass then stoping and running back like he had no brain so the attacking player gets to the ball is challenging and fun?
Me oppening 1000 100% oppurtunity's for my players and them missing horribly is fun and challenging? Once I got a really good position and dribbled the defending player the goalie ran towards me and I passed the ball to my teammate who had goal basicaly completely open and he instead of running towards the ball slided towards it and kicked it completely away and this happens almost all the time , instead of him running towards the ball he slides and kicks it like a retard.
And don't give me this bullshit that its only a game , even PES 6 had alot smarter AI and players , whether or not it is realistic is not a argument here but I just told you some things that clearly show that the AI sometimes plays like there were chimps on the field instead of people , and this is NOT normal and it is NOT acceptable , there are alot of bugs and so in other games aswell , its no real life but I really don't remember when was the last time I played a game ( except PES08 ) with such dumb AI sometimes that seriously makes u think it was made by 5 year olds.

Well if you do not like it why bother playing it. Complaining to me and using sarcasm really does not help your argument. At the end of the day, just quit playing PES BAL if you can do nothing but criticize it. Debating with you is like debating with a "five year old", you cannot reason with another point of view nor can you see beyond your own. Using derogatory terms to back up your argument really is impressing nobody on this site

 

[iamcanadianeh]

I agree. Nuff said. The game is fun if you give it the time, and whether you hate it or not is a matter of opinion. You'll meet some people with either opinion - and if you can't accept the opinions of others then there's no point arguing :brickwall:

Also, I wouldn't sit here and compain that PES 6 AI was better when you're talking about BAL, since it didn't have that mode. I think one of the reasons why Konami didn't release BAL earlier is because they understood that the demands for AI intelligence are much higher when you implement a mode were the player plays along side the CPU. It's not going to bug people as much if the AI is poor when they are only playing against the AI... Let's face it, we're all better winners than losers at heart.