Best Final Fantasy Ever?

[rpgste]

Ive gotta agree with Giggsy about ffviii, it was a really good game but heres something that will make you think a bit:

Rinoa = Ultimercia

there was an article on a website that i read that really made me think about the reason ultimercia was included in the game, ill try and find it.

 

[rpgste]

Okay, this is going to be a very long post, the website this was on has been deleted but it was in an editorial on rpgamer so here goes:

"fact 1: i believe that sorceresses do not age. why? because it never in the whole game speaks of any sorceresses dying. it speaks of adel being from the far past, yet she is still alive. also, present day cid looks a lot older than present day edea. it is possible cid was as young as edea looks when edea received her powers, making cid age but not edea. if it is true sorceresses do not age, rinoa, being a sorceress could live on and become ultimecia."

"fact 2: it is stated in the game that in order for a person to become a sorceress, a dying sorceress must pass her powers onto them, in order to die in peace. however rinoa does not become a sorceress in this way. she becomes a sorceress after you have fought edea in galbadia garden. true you have to beat edea, but she's not dying, nor does she die, it is never explained how rinoa became a sorceress."

"fact 3: now i know what you're thinking, why would ultimecia want to kill squall if she's rinoa? well there are many indications why. i believe what happened to rinoa was, she aged and squall didn't, and eventually he died and she lived on. unable to take the pain she became evil. it might sound a bit wayward but read this quote from ultimecia just before she dies: "reflect on your..." "childhood..." "your sensation..." "your words..." "your emotions..." "time..." "it will not wait..." "no matter..." "...how hard you hold on" "it escapes you..."time will not wait, no matter how hard you hold on it escapes you? this backs up my theory of squall dying. she wanted to hold onto him but he died."

"fact 4: on disc 3, squall says to rinoa at the field next to the orphanage "i'll be here waiting for you i promise ... etc..." and suddenly the whole intro makes sense. now is it just a coincidence that ultimecia's castle is placed exactly next to this? you have to ask yourself, why the hell would ultimecia park her castle there when she has anywhere in the whole world to put it? she is waiting for squall at the field..."

"fact 5: now you might think, why would ultimecia kill squall when you fight her at the end, surely this is what she'd have wanted, to be reunited with squall. this is a valid point, however she does not recognised squall is squall, this is proven when edea explains who she is, squall approaches ultimecia and she says "who are you!?" (or something along those lines)."

"fact 6: now this is a big indication that its true: rinoa 'borrows' squall's griever ring, yes she does get zell to make a copy, but she never gives squall his back, this is proven at the field when rinoa says "i have this dream, i get all dressed up and put on your ring... etc...".just before you enter galbadia garden, you get to name the ring, (the default is griever). ultimecia has a gf.......called griever, (or whatever you name the ring). if you remember, you get doomtrain out of solomons ring. its possible griever is gained from squall's ring, which ultimecia would have if she is rinoa."

"fact 7: ultimecia has black wings, rinoa has white wings. there is a lot of emphasis placed on rinoa's wings (on her costume, and limit). black = evil, white = good. it would be a natural progression. that is backed up by these shots taken from the ending. it appears rinoa's wings are changing from white to black."

"fact 8: there are 3 fmv shots of ultimecia in the game, all are at the ending, and last less than 1/10th of a second each, barely visible (did you notice them?). why would square go to all the trouble of making the fmv if no one were to see it? square aren't stupid, they wouldn't waste time and money for nothing."

"fact 9, the biggest: now i knew myself i would never believe it unless i saw that rinoa looked like ultimecia, and from what i could remember she didn't. however, look at these pictures i have superimposed onto one another (they aren't exactly right because the pose ultimecia is doing, rinoa doesn't do, so i found the nearest match (see the bottom of this page for pictures)"

 

[patrick_bateman]

this is gonna be confusing for some ppl.

final fantasy 3 in japan was final fantasy 5 in america, its the same for a few titles.

for me 3(or 5) was the pinnacle of exploration but 7 holds deep in my heart...


oo i cant wait for ADVENT CHILDREN, THE RETURN OF SEPHIROTH!! YE AHH

 

[Giggsy11]

Thats a very interesting post my friend

I only really understood the last section , especialy the part about griever (squall gives riona his griever ring then at the end of the game ultimica uses griever so ultimica must be riona).

but maybe this is all just coincedence?
this is a game that just could have made lots of mistakes (like rinoa not giving the ring back, and the previus sorcerous needing to die to become ultimicia)

but it is very intersting stuff, like any final fantasy it gets u thinking and i'm tempted to play it again now,but yeah i think what u are saying is very interesting stuff.

So what about when Riona is under edeas control in dollet or when riona is fighting ultimecia at the end,how can riona be fighting herself?

 

[Giggsy11]

and where are the pics mate?

 

[rpgste]

1) I dont know where the pics are, supposed to be on the website where that originated but i copied it from an editorial and the original website seems to have closed down now.

2) I know its a lot to take in at first but it isnt that confusing is it?

3)i doubt that it is all a coincedence or that square made 9 interlinking mistakes, they are not that sort of company, well they certainly wernt when they made ff8 anyway, when they were not in financial trouble (which only started after the movie ff : the spirits within). So i doubt they were under any pressure so i would have thought most bugs had been ironed out.

there were two things that really got me to believe in this theory, the first was the ring / GF which is convinving on its own, but the second is the i'll be waiting here bit that hit me the first time i played through the game after hearing the theory.

If time is compressed then i might be possible for rinoa to actually be able to fight herself, maybe

 

[rpgste]

Patrick bateman,
wasnt ff6 in japan released as ff3 in america?
ff4 was actually called ff2 in america and the original ff was ff1.

i dont think ff2/3/5 were realeased there untill the playstation was brought out

 

[Giggsy11]

i see yout point, that post really got me thinking.

 

[Zeppelin]

Hi, I'm new here but listen anyway.

I also was young when playing FFVII and it took me an age to do wall market first time too! I remember finding the story really spooky weird with all that cloning gabble and I got super-confused but I eventually understood.

On the subject of FFIX, I have to say that it's biggest failing is the stories similarity to FFVII. Think about it. Superhuman (Sephiroth) wants to destroy the world who wronged him. So does Kuja. They are both related in some way to the main protagonist (Cloud through memories, Zidane through brotherhood). Both have heroines that the hero is always saving (Garnet and Aeris) and both have a loner character who absolutely rules (Vincent and Amarant) as well as an annoying kid (Yuffie and Eiko).

So there you go. I still think FFIX was great but I didn't connect with the characters and I always felt like I was being told what to do by the little "!" and "?" that appeared. Made it too easy.

FFVII however, was mint. Harder to me as a mere 10 year old and thus I found it hard. The linearity of Disc 2 is a bit annoying now but then it was unnoticeable. This is the major problem with FFX, you never have any control and the first three hours just seem like an overblown tutorial and yes, Auron is the only really great character.

Notice how the mystery man in the wacky clothes is always the best? Look at Vincent, Irvine, Vivi/Aramant and Auron. Look at Shadow in FFVI! It all adds up. Whilst Cloud and Cid were awesome they could never match Vincent and his frankenstein complex.

Talking about FFX-2 and Advent Children, wouldn't the best idea be FFVII-2? Think about it! You could play as the Turks before, during and after FFVII. Or a game as Vincent trying to find out more about his past. Or Barret. The possibilities are endless.

Finally, rpgste's FFVIII 'sorceress' post. Me and some friends have been thinking along these lines fora while but not under such extremes! Well done to that guy whoever wrote it all originally! I need to play FFVIII again now just to see all those little hinty things!

PS: Did anyone ever destroy the mech-spider in Dollet? I did. Damn hard but what a rewarding feeling!

 

[Giggsy11]

PS: Did anyone ever destroy the mech-spider in Dollet? I did. Damn hard but what a rewarding feeling!

I did and yes it is hard, but when u don't do it its quite a good chase scene between 'the spider' and squall, as i said, one of the best parts of any of the FF's is the 'battle of the gardens' in FF8, really good.

 

[sut]

ff8 is easily the best ff. ffx was way too linear, and the fact that you only get some freedom just before the final section with sin is annoying. in 9 there was just something missing that i can't put my finger on, and 7 was great as well.

 

[rpgste]

On the subject of FFIX, I have to say that it's biggest failing is the stories similarity to FFVII. Think about it. Superhuman (Sephiroth) wants to destroy the world who wronged him. So does Kuja. They are both related in some way to the main protagonist (Cloud through memories, Zidane through brotherhood). Both have heroines that the hero is always saving (Garnet and Aeris) and both have a loner character who absolutely rules (Vincent and Amarant) as well as an annoying kid (Yuffie and Eiko).

So there you go. I still think FFIX was great but I didn't connect with the characters and I always felt like I was being told what to do by the little "!" and "?" that appeared. Made it too easy.

Okay, i do sort of agree with you but i have to fight my corner for ffix as as ive said all along i think it is the best out of any of them.

firstly, kuja wants absolute power, he doesnt want to be the understudy to garland. whereas sepiroth was the master, everybody accepted that he was the strongest, most talented swordsman in the world. Kuja was always going to be replaced by zidane and when he found out that his lifespan was limited he could not bear to see others live, he says something to the effect that if i cant live then nobody can.

ive got to agree on your second point about cloud and sepiroth and zidane and kuja being related, but it is even more relevant than you suggested. Cloud was a "clone" of sepiroth but was inferior (according to hojo) but zidane and kuja were both made by the same person so maybe brothers, or where they clones?

but zidane was the superior "model" to kuja whereas cloud was supposedly inferior to sepiroth.

well, i dont think that the third point is valid at all,
1- aeris died so cloud wasnt saving her then
2- name a final fantasy, or in general rpgs, where the heroine isnt saved by the hero

On your next point, many rpgs have loner characters - squall was a loner in ffviii, and he was the main character. i dont think vincent really had that much input into the story and neither did yuffie, okay they had a bit but nothing like as much as eiko and armarant even had quite a big part to play. ffx had auron - a quality loner, and all the females were annoying, especially rikku.

i connected with the characters in ffix better than in any other ff game so i cant really comment on your point there, its just an opinion.

finally it was too easy with the '!'s but ozma made that easyness seem to go away.

 

[Giggsy11]

wow, u have soom very interesting points about FF games rpgste, i have never thought so hard about them like that.

 

[MatPhillips]

Restarted FF:VII tuesday, it's a good game still, but it just doesn't have the same hold on me as it used to ! i'm still gonna try and complete it.
last night i said to myself "i want to turn it off about 10pm" and at 9.55pm i was looking for a save point.
in the old days i would've looked at my clock and thought 1:15am?????? OH F***.

i think its cos i'm older and the desire's slipping a little bit!

 

[Giggsy11]

The FF games are always the best the first time you play them because the memory stays with you.

 

[rpgste]

wow, u have soom very interesting points about FF games rpgste, i have never thought so hard about them like that.

yeh, i normally play a game through two or three times to fully understand the plot and characters. The first time you play and ff game you never find everything you ned to fully understand the story, characters and dont find the hidden things. The second time you can 'read betwwen the lines' as it where and actually think about why certain scenes where placed into the game.

ive started playing ffix through again and am near the start of disc three at the moment so hopefully ill find stuff that i never did all the other times ive played it, and loved it every time, and maybe bring up a couple more points that i havent already.

when i have soem time near christmas ill probably play ffvii through again and properly understand the cloud / zack bit, cos i havent played it for a long time and have grown up a lot since i first played the game and can now really get the game.

ff games are can be played through in two ways essentially:
1) you play the game throuh once and love / hate(somehow) itor
2) you play it through a couple of times and fully understand everything in it (which is normally quite hard to do)

 

[Giggsy11]

I usually play through it once, then i play through it again, maybe with the help from a guide.

 

[rpgste]

once ive played it through twice i have used an internet guide to see if i had missed anything interesting that i could have done.

 

[rpgste]

i found this really cool website that i think you should have a look at, it explains all the meanings of the names of all the characters from ffvii - FFVII name origins

and the on the main page - FFVII - contents page - there are a few interseting articles.

 

[Giggsy11]

I have the official FFX guide and its amazing, have u had any of the official ones?