Console Battle

[JoeyM]

I'm not sure yet, I got a PS2 when it came out, when it was already known that Xbox was going to be more powerful, so I couldn't care as long as they are somewhat close. Though my PS2 broke which is why I got my Xbox.

The thing which is probably going to decide it for me is the online aspect, Xbox Live is so far ahead of anything the PS2 has, it's just crazy that Sony let it happen. I would have thought that they'd of come up with a better plan to rival Microsoft's.

 

[Akineye]

gran turismo isthe ultimate in racing games it will never be beaten.

Yeah it's totally realistic to crash into a wall and keep right on driving exactly the same.

 

[Top Gun]

yeah bt you dont always hit a wall and do about 18 back flips.

 

[Travis Bickle]

Your ego is about $ony. Fanboyish in a way. Games are games and everyone has an opinion. I allowed you to have yours, now grow up and allow me to have mine.

It was just because you said that the microsoft pad was better than the sony one, but Sony playstation has offered analogue, thats how your trigger works, on their pad since 1997, or something, on the ps2 every button is pressurised, probably a wasted effort as alot of developers don't take advantage of it and you didn't realise it either.

I'm not a fanboy of anything but I appreciate innovation, which comes from the East, Nintendo, Sega and Sony being the main contributors, and Microsoft being well known for its "playing it safe policy", the last innovator at Microsoft was Bill Gates since then they've employed money makers and business men.

 

[Barry]

I agree until "Innovation coming from the East", until the Sony part. Sony is well known for their "if it aint broke,dont fix it' policy, including loads of sequels(not that they are the only one, mind). Playing it safe?
Nintendo does innovate a lot(Pikmin,Dualscreen,first 3D platformer etc.)

 

[AfroJoe]

Nintendo's innovation has actually changed the home console industry a lot. Not majorly, but noticably. They introduced rumble packs, analogue stick control and four-controller-port consoles.

I'm sure that whatever they use as an input method for the Revolution will also become a future feature associated with all consoles. Just wait and see... I'll be right.

 

[deftonesmx17]

It was just because you said that the microsoft pad was better than the sony one, but Sony playstation has offered analogue, thats how your trigger works, on their pad since 1997, or something, on the ps2 every button is pressurised, probably a wasted effort as alot of developers don't take advantage of it and you didn't realise it either.

There you go once again with the assumptions, but don't worry I will read your excuse as to why you didnt again. You assume I didnt know that the buttons on the Dual Shock 2 are pressure sensitive. Hmmmmm I wonder why it is a Dual Shock 2 and not a Dual Shock 1. Nintendo offered analog controllers before $ony....................and a rumble feature. $ony stole most of the technology for the Dual Shock from Immersion. Immersion took them to court....................Immersion won..............the amount of $90 million was payed from $ony to Immersion. Yup, $ony is innovative

I'm not a fanboy of anything but I appreciate innovation, which comes from the East, Nintendo, Sega and Sony being the main contributors, and Microsoft being well known for its "playing it safe policy", the last innovator at Microsoft was Bill Gates since then they've employed money makers and business men.

So the four Rachet & Clank games would not be "playing it safe"? How about the Metal Gear Solid series that has been the same since the first on the PSX. What about the Devil May Cry series, yup we need another one. Oh yes gotta love the three Jak games. How about the 4 Gran Turismo games that are still the same. It took PolyPhony Digital how many years to make GT4 and we didnt even get online play. It was just an expansion to GT3 just as GT2 was to GT1. Still no damage from the "true racing simulator" :lol: I love to bounce off walls at 150Mph unscathed and just go back to racing the idiot A.I. After 10 years..........I am still just playing the same game with better graphics. Oh and the nice little shaking glitch was a nice touch. Job well done PD and $ony. You even lied about 1080i as the PS2 has a maximun resolution of 1280x1024 @ 16-bit and 640x480 @ 32-bit. So......its just upscaled 480p, why didnt you say that in the first place.
M$ has no innovation...................yeah right. I forgot that in Forza I have damage. It affects your driving. I can't just outclass my oppnents with supercars. I can customize my car inside and out. I can put a better engine in my car. After all is said and done, I can race online with my custom cars and others can see it. (examples within link http://www.tabwin.com/forza.htm ) I can sell my cars online also................nope no innovations from M$, but PD and $ony were so innovative with GT4................So innovative that I couldnt even repaint my used cars or change the color of the ones I already own
Do you know about physics calculations? Maybe how GT4 does 60 calculations per second while Forza does 240.

Let me fill you in with some $ony innovation, money making, and business men with a couple examples.

Think PSOne or PStwo for a second, pure money makers. Nothing innovative about them. Picture the marketing meeting........

Ken Kutaragi: What should we do about the dwindling PS2 sales?

$ony Marketing Rep: Lets make a really small PS2.

Ken Kutaragi: Do you think it will increase sales?

$ony Marketing Rep: Of course, people will flock to the stores.

Ken Kutaragi: What makes you so sure?

$ony Marketing Rep: It worked for the original Playstation when we made the PSOne.

Ken Kutaragi: What should we name this new Playstation 2?

$ony Marketing Rep: The PSTwo.

Ken Kutaragi: Wow that was brilliant, I love my innovative Team. Next subject. What should we name the handheld?

$ony Marketing Rep: Wait, I have and Idea. The Playstation Portable aka PSP.

Ken Kutaragi: Brilliant, what about the next-gen system we are working on?

$ony Marketing Rep: How about Playstation 3?

Ken Kutaragi: Brilliant and we shall make a small one towards the end of its life to make more sales. We shall call it the PSThree


Yup, good old innovative $ony right there.


I hope you know a thing or two about the "CELL" processor. The Cell is designed with one PowerPC core and 8 SPE's. The PS3 Cell only has 7 SPE's. Want to know why? Ken Kutaragi (I hope you know who he is by now) stated what I will say in the following.
The reason for the PS3 to have only 7 SPE's is very simple. There are defects in the chips. To reduce costs, $ony will disable the defective SPE on defective chips instead of wasting them. The defective chips have broken pathways to the SPE in question. With the SPE disabled the chip can still be used........

Now take that in. To make money they will use defective parts in the PS3. Thats great to know $ony. Thanks for warning me that I will be buying defective system from the get-go.

I know one person with their original PS2. "Disc Read Error" ring a bell? How about having to turn your PSX upside down to make it work? Dead pixels on every other PSP?

I went through 2 PSX's and 3 PS2's. I can say my first XBOX is still running strong. My first Gamecube still works like a charm. My Atari 2600, NES, SNES, Genesis, N64, and Dreamcast all still work. I wish I could say the same for my $ony products. At least they named their car audio products (xplod) appropriate.................because they do.............explode :lol:

also when you use right analogue stick there's no way of pressing accelarate and brake at the same time which is a bonus

This was your worst statment pertaining to how using the right analog is better/realistic. I just forgot that we all have two feet and that if we wanted to, we could press both the brake and gas. How do you burnout with an Auto transaxel? There are two choices and Brake Torquing is one of them. Unlike GT4, in Forza this affects your engine and brakes, as does always flooring the car and sticking at high RPM's.

don't expect everyone to agree with your opinion, and have some backbone when people disagree.

Try using your own advice. Once Again, for racing games, I like the XBOX controller, you like the $ony controller. Stop trying to justify your opinion as the "right" decision. It is only making you appear foolish.



At this point, why don't you just start saying FIFA is better than PES/WE? From the reasons you gave about GT4, I am suprised you don't praise the always the same FIFA series. :lol:

 

[jamez]

There you go once again with the assumptions, but don't worry I will read your excuse as to why you didnt again. You assume I didnt know that the buttons on the Dual Shock 2 are pressure sensitive. Hmmmmm I wonder why it is a Dual Shock 2 and not a Dual Shock 1. Nintendo offered analog before $ony....................

.....really...........

 

[Travis Bickle]

Tell me which is more realistic, pushing a button that puts you at full acceleration or being able to ease on the throttle?

I didn't assume anything, why would you say this if you knew the buttons on ps2 were pressurised?

Also I might regret saying this, but I'd put money on Sony being the first to produce an analogue joypad. And the case against Immersion is a longwinded affair that if you patent any idea well enough you'll make alot of money in the end !

I agree that continuing popular series is money making, but the ones you've stated are exceptions, my nephew has all three Ratchet and clank games and I can say they are all completely different and of a high quality. Devil may cry is also an excellent series I ain't played jak, and we all know Gran Turismo hasn't changed that much but it's like a national institution in Japan. You can't slag of mgs either for being the same as on the ps1, except for the fact its totally different ! You didn't mention final fantasy but is that the exception to your "rule".

Anyway I play Katamari Damacy, Ico, I have the eyetoy on when my mates are around, that's originality.

Plus your arguement about Sony releasing smaller versions:

Sony "Lets reduce the size of the components for are machines so that we can reduce costs and promote to a newer audience with a lower price tag?"

Microsoft "Lets put a PC in a box so that we can sell to PC-nuts and patriotic Americans that won't buy Japanese given the choice, 'cause of the War."

I play Formula 1 so I definately prefer not to have accelarator and brake pressing together it would effect my laptimes by about 0.25 secs at least.

ps. I still own my first ps2 and ps!

 

[deftonesmx17]

I didn't assume anything, why would you say this if you knew the buttons on ps2 were pressurised?

Because they are rather useless. Try to use them to their full effect sometime. Yes you did assume I didn't know. To assume is to accept without verification or proof.

Also I might regret saying this, but I'd put money on Sony being the first to produce an analogue joypad.

So that analog joystick I have for my N64 is a figment of my imagination then. The Dual Shock was released for Gran Turismo on PSX. It was released a few months before the game. Now did GT or the N64 come first?

And the case against Immersion is a longwinded affair that if you patent any idea well enough you'll make alot of money in the end !

And $ony should have thought about that. It is not that hard to find if someone has invented something you want to make. Believe me I work at CAS (Chemical Abstract Services) a patent service company.

I agree that continuing popular series is money making, but the ones you've stated are exceptions, my nephew has all three Ratchet and clank games and I can say they are all completely different and of a high quality. Devil may cry is also an excellent series I ain't played jak, and we all know Gran Turismo hasn't changed that much but it's like a national institution in Japan. You can't slag of mgs either for being the same as on the ps1, except for the fact its totally different ! You didn't mention final fantasy but is that the exception to your "rule".

I own all the Rachet & Clank (the third one is a blast) games and the difference is minimal, about the same as the Crash Bandicoot games were. MGS is the same. It is a long movie, with gameplay. I am a MGS nut, but they are all the same. They use the same camera angle for christ sake. Don't try and say they are totally different. The only difference is the story and that in MGS 3 you can use some CQC. That doesnt mean I don't like them. I love them, the stories are great.
I didnt mention Final Fantasy as they have major differences besides the first 3 on NES (Japanese releases numbers).

Sony "Lets reduce the size of the components for are machines so that we can reduce costs and promote to a newer audience with a lower price tag?"

Your argument was that M$ were the money makers and business men, yet confirm what I said about $ony. The PStwo's are no cheaper than the PS2 was. They are $150, just as the PS2 was before they made the PStwo.

Microsoft "Lets put a PC in a box so that we can sell to PC-nuts and patriotic Americans that won't buy Japanese given the choice, 'cause of the War."

Quite the contrary, the Japanese will not buy the XBOX because it is American. The Japanese have loyalty to Japanese companies and I don't blame them. I have loyalty to American Companies. I will always drive an American car. Many Americans wont buy the XBOX only because they hate M$ and Windows. Might I add that the xbox is no PC. By all means, get yourself a copy of the XDK (xbox development kit) and an xbox that is chipped to run unsigned code. Then enjoy porting any x86 platform app/game/OS to xbox standards. It wont be very much fun. I can point you in all the right directions to do the above if you don't believe me. Please refrain from making very bad generalizations in the future.

 

[sensa]

deftones mx17 i think u need 2 get a life mate,ure awnser r like readin the bible

 

[deftonesmx17]

deftones mx17 i think u need 2 get a life mate,ure awnser r like readin the bible

Sorry mate, but I have a great life. I have plenty of time on my hands here at work; which is where 95% of my posts will come from.
I just don't like 100% biased posts about $ony. I am a $ony man myself, but I don't act like they are the above all.

 

[Travis Bickle]

Yes you did assume I didn't know. To assume is to accept without verification or proof.

what the hell is that supposed to me you fruitloop. This is an internet forum, you made this statement....

"Tell me which is more realistic, pushing a button that puts you at full acceleration or being able to ease on the throttle?"

I "assumed" this statement was to articulate the differences between the Sony and Microsoft pads. I "assumed that "pushing a button that puts you at full throttle" was reference to what would happen on a digital pad, therefore I "assumed" you didn't know what the hell you were talking about because the ps2 pad is fully analogue. Unfortunately what I didn't assume, regretably, is that you are an American moron that will argue in cyberspace till you are blue in the face.

Also I think the Japanese just don't like inferior products, this is the Country that buys everything to do with games it's an obsession, they also love the West, they take on every nuance of Western society but they won't take on board what was quoted by Semus Blackley as "little more than exposed cards with processors and graphics chips hooked to a monitor." The Japanese ain't no fools.

 

[deftonesmx17]

what the hell is that supposed to me you fruitloop. This is an internet forum, you made this statement....

"Tell me which is more realistic, pushing a button that puts you at full acceleration or being able to ease on the throttle?"

I "assumed" this statement was to articulate the differences between the Sony and Microsoft pads. I "assumed that "pushing a button that puts you at full throttle" was reference to what would happen on a digital pad, therefore I "assumed" you didn't know what the hell you were talking about because the ps2 pad is fully analogue. Unfortunately what I didn't assume, regretably, is that you are an American moron that will argue in cyberspace till you are blue in the face.

Also I think the Japanese just don't like inferior products, this is the Country that buys everything to do with games it's an obsession, they also love the West, they take on every nuance of Western society but they won't take on board what was quoted by Semus Blackley as "little more than exposed cards with processors and graphics chips hooked to a monitor." The Japanese ain't no fools.

We see you have resorted to calling names. I think we now know your maturity levels. Can you not handle a debate? This is a Console Battle thread. Did you not expect opposition to your feelings? Everyone on Earth does not agree with each other. Are you not replying to my every post, just as I do to you? You are arguing in cyberspace also. Who are you to throw stones? You also make wrong generalizations over everything. You now stereotype me for being an American. What the fu$k differnce does that make? Every American is not the same. You also know nothing about me. I could have only lived in America for 10 years and just have pride for my country. Don't you have pride for your country? You don't know me, but just make the assumption that I am the stereotypical American moron. Did you see me attack you over your nationality? No, I have more sense than that.
Doesnt the "American Moron" prefer FIFA over PES/WE anyways? :lol:

You sir, know nothing about console hardware. The xbox is superior in all shapes and forms. Please enlighten me with your knowledge on how each system works.

As for the Japanese, even Hideo Kojima is worried about the Playstation 3.Do you know who Tomonobu Itagaki is? He is the head of Team Ninja. He only develops for the best hardware. Guess what system he prefers? Its not any of $ony's.
Here is an article to one of his latest interviews about the XBOX 360.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/01/news_6128504.html
You get the picture. By your generalization/stereotype of the Japanese, this guy is a fool.

If you did research, the Japanese don't like the xbox for simple reasons............the games and loyalty. Think about it, $ony is in Japan and employs Japanese poeple, they are smart and think about their own economy. They enjoy different types of games than most Americans. The XBOX was M$'s first console. It was going against two very well established companies in the gaming world. Developer support was thin. Just now have they gained good developer support.
If the Japanese aint no fools, explain why the Dreamcast was a flop? You do know it was more powerful and easier to program for than the Playstation 2. I can tell you what killed them...............developer support. Their last two systems were a flop and developers were skeptic. Thus making it fail.
I guess the Japanese would be fools again by your stereotype. Square was quick to jump on board with M$ when their contract with $ony was over.
Do you know there will be a big announcement from M$ in Japan later this month?
Did you know that Japanese company Toshiba has signed with M$ to make HD-DVD players?
Its also funny how $ony needs Nvidia for the PS3 GPU. Nvidia, an American company, which made the GPU for the xbox. Hmmm there must be something to that.

Next time, I suggest you learn how to use facts rather than flames.

 

[Travis Bickle]

Firstly, we don't use the flame arguement in this fora,(I don't think two to three paragraph replies cout as flames) secondly I called you an American because thats what you are, you pertained to the "moron" status because you stated you have a loyalty to American companies, for you to feel I was being derogatory to your Nationality is paranoia on your part, the song "American Idiot" isn't about all American's being idiots you know.

Can you please get of your high horse and moral bullshit about me "name calling", and answer the question I've put to you, this arguement stems from the fact that you stated the xbox controller was better for racing games than the sony one. I felt I had to disagree with your opinion as I'm a "racing fan" and have never been happier than with my ps2 pad. Your main arguement was........

"Tell me which is more realistic, pushing a button that puts you at full acceleration or being able to ease on the throttle?"

The only way I could actually relate that to the use of a ps2 controller was to believe that you didn't realise the ps2 pad was pressurised, as you can press lightly on the button to ease on the throttle, there is also the ability to use the right analogue stick as an accelarate/brake on the ps2 one which I favour and have turned alot of my friends whom agree with the advantages of using this.


I don't know the ins and outs of console hardware, but what I do know is the Japanese make a good game, and games is all I care about on my games console, not the amount of teraflops per second or its rate at rendering water particles on a metallic surface with realtime lighting and fog visualisation!

When I said "inferior product" I meant the xbox didn't make enough good games, I think(don't start an arguement over this) you may have taken it as the xbox machine was inferior, I feel the potential for Microsoft was massive the amount of money they have, the patriotism you've stated from Americans, the Western style they could have added, what they could of done was build a machine from the roots up basing it all about games - as thats what people are interested in - but they couldn't because they're full of middle management idiots that are obsessed with fitting people into demographics, I mean the only reason they used "X" in the name is because they thought "kids" would relate it to EXTREME action and crap. I know Sony did this back in the early 90's by putting playstations into clubs but then it was "seemingly" cool, and I'm afraid(and glad) to say we've changed.

I read the Kojima felt the ps3 was the best hardware but thought developers would not be capable ofharnessing it, but you do read alot of things on the World Wide Web.

 

[deftonesmx17]

I don't know the ins and outs of console hardware, but what I do know is the Japanese make a good game, and games is all I care about on my games console, not the amount of teraflops per second or its rate at rendering water particles on a metallic surface with realtime lighting and fog visualisation!

Back to you need to know the hardware. The PS2 is the hardest system to program for. It takes on average, 5 times the length to program a PS2 game than an xbox game. Like I said you know nothing about it. Ease of programming is key for good games and the PS2 was very far away from easy. The Gamecube and Xbox are both easier to program and are more powerful. They both have better games. The only thing the PS2 has is a giant library of games, but that doesnt mean they are great. I have played very few GREAT PS2 games.
Do you know why the PSX had more "good" games than the N64. Because the PSX was easy to program for.

Can you please get of your high horse and moral bullshit about me "name calling", and answer the question I've put to you

Well I havent seen you answer any of my questions. You just reply with opinions to my facts. You have done nothing, but turn anything I say back around at me. Why? Because you have used zero facts and obviously know no facts.

Firstly, we don't use the flame arguement in this fora,(I don't think two to three paragraph replies cout as flames)

Unfortunately what I didn't assume, regretably, is that you are an American moron

Um sure that wasnt a flame against me and of my nationality. I am sure I will read your next excuse as to why it wasnt. Excuses are all you have.

I mean the only reason they used "X" in the name is because they thought "kids" would relate it to EXTREME action and crap.

Wow, you might just want to shut up. Who is looking like the idiot right now? Want to know the real reason why it is called the Xbox. The original name was DirectXbox. Do you even know what directx is? Its about games.

You also fail to grasp the concept that about 10 years ago Gran Turismo introduced analogue accelaration, you can't say you prefer games on an xbox because they offer something that the playstation one offered nearly a century ago.

You fail to grasp that years before the PSX, the PC offered analog accelaration. So using your logic and argument here...............you can't say you prefer racing games on PS2 because they offer something that the PC did many years before $ony and the PSX did.

You called yourself a racing fan but prefer an American imitation (forza) to the best racing simulation in the World (gran turismo).

Imitation is what you say about Forza. Simulation is what you say about Gran Turismo. By all means read the following link and I dare you to find similar reading as to Gran Turismo 4 being a simulation. Good Luck.
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/automotive/article/0,20967,1043197,00.html

Here is a part from that Popular Science article. It seems like Gran Turismo 4 is the imitation.

The software giant devoted more than two and a half years and the expertise of 150 employees to build Forza, digitally describing gravity, surface temperatures, friction coefficients and thousands of other factors that mimic the cause and effect of reality. Rather than simply using 0–60 times, top speeds and the standard slate of statistics available from automakers, the designers entered each car’s physical attributes—the ingredients of performance—into a physics model that predicts how that particular collection of parts would slice through the air and grab the road. (Forza's main competitor, Sony PlayStation 2’s Gran Turismo 4 , can’t match its power—GT4’s physics engine recalculates 60 times a second, Forza's runs four times as fast, at 240.)

you pertained to the "moron" status because you stated you have a loyalty to American companies, for you to feel I was being derogatory to your Nationality is paranoia on your part

Um I don't think so. At this point you are just being an asshole. How close-minded does a person have to be in order to call someone a moron because they have loyalty to home companies?

You have proven to speak nothing but bullshit or the things you pull out of your ass. You have no clue. So go continue to live in your very closed world.

 

[Mick03]

sony did nick alot of things for the playstaion, at frsit they orinalg ps1 desing was the nindendo consul, like wise the anolgo feature.

like has been stated the x-box was named off it project name thought it could be argued they were lazy in this.

the big thing with the next consald will be back wards conpatablity which nitons far play to them have nail as well as sony, but from rumores i have herad x box will have teh feature only once re complied. which means buying teh game again in 360 formmat which isent really back wards complatable.

and allthought i said sony niced a few things xbox can not claim there high and mity when they charge for internet sevcers where sony is free and for the x-box you had to but a sperat controller to access dvd's.

 

[deftonesmx17]

sony did nick alot of things for the playstaion, at frsit they orinalg ps1 desing was the nindendo consul, like wise the anolgo feature.

Yup. It all stemed from Nintendo liking the sound chip $ony made for the SNES. Yet, when Nintendo saw the SEGA CD fail they pulled the plug with $ony. $ony decided to make it a standalone console, thus the PSX was born.

and allthought i said sony niced a few things xbox can not claim there high and mity when they charge for internet sevcers where sony is free and for the x-box you had to but a sperat controller to access dvd's.

I guess we could bitch at all the MMORPG companies also for charging for online play. Or how $ony forced you to buy the useless PS2 HDD(only Socom 2 and FFXI ever took advantage of it) to play Final Fantasy XI. Or how youre screwed if you buy a PStwo and want to play FFXI, since the PStwo has not HDD connectivity.
M$ charge for their online play because they host the servers. Online play is smooth on xbox unlike PS2. PS2 online was not well thought out. XboxLive controls cheaters. Many games get patches, map updates, etc. The real reason you had to buy the dongle for DVD play on the xbox was licensing fees. The owner of DVD playback technology is $ony. M$ had to pay $ony royalties for DVD playback. So by you buying the dongle, you were paying the $ony licensing fee.

Licensing fees are the backwards compatibility problems with xbox 360. They would have to pay Nvidia and Intel for true backwards compatibility. It will be done through emulation. A recompiled XBE file for each game is needed. Those will be on the HDD and downloadable through Live as they are completed.

yeah bt you dont always hit a wall and do about 18 back flips.

What game are you talking about? It can't be Forza as the cars do not flip. That was an agreement between the car manufactures and the developers.

 

[codename 47]

I say XBOX 360,microsoft are learning very from the mistakes they made with the original xbox i.e.with the design and they are recruting many talented japanese developers
also i wouldn't believe the reports that the PS3 is twice as powerful as the 360 as its said to be very hard to distinghush which is the most powerful overall

 

[Travis Bickle]

OK, I don't know what a flame is, I thought it was one word derogatory replies.

How close-minded does a person have to be in order to call someone a moron because they have loyalty to home companies?

I think the question here should be how close minded would a person have to be to have loyalty to home companies?

I've explained my use of "American" and you can see it wasn't used in itself to be derogatory but in conjunction with your bias towards American produce. This is something not seen in Britain we unfortunately do not buy enough British products, hence the demise of Rover..... I'm sure you don't understand the meaning of a free market (political, not directed at you but at the American governments policies on trade.) I consider buying products due to patiotism moronic, that's why I said this, it's a World market I base my decisions on the best product at the price I can afford.

I am well offended you took my comment as a "nationality bashing" and I've tried to explain myself twice, and I don't want you to call me a xenophobe, it's uncalled for.

* Fable (Xbox)
* Tony Hawk's Underground (Xbox)
* LEGO Star Wars: The Video Game (Xbox)
* Unreal Championship 2: The Liandri Conflict (Xbox)
* Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2005 (Xbox)
* The Chronicles of Riddick (Bonus Disc) (Xbox)
* Brothers in Arms: Road to Hill 30 (Xbox)
* Madden NFL 2005 (Xbox)
* Jade Empire (Xbox)
* Mercenaries (Xbox)
* Forza Motorsport (Xbox)
* Psychonauts (Xbox)
* Crimson Skies: High Road to Revenge (Xbox)
* Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (Xbox)
* Soulcalibur II (Xbox)
* Project Gotham Racing 2 (Xbox)
* NBA Street Vol. 2 (Xbox)
* Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six 3 (Xbox)
* Halo: Combat Evolved (Xbox)
* Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time (Xbox)
* Burnout 3: Takedown (Xbox)
* Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Chaos Theory (Xbox)
* Ninja Gaiden (Xbox)
* Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (Xbox)
* Halo 2 (Xbox)

Thats the top 25 xbox games, (from gamespy), none of the exclusive titles interest me in the slightest.........ok maybe Halo so I don't get an ear bashing but I'm not the biggest fps fan.


1. Pro Evo soccer (all of them, and iss)
2. Final Fantasy X
3. God of War
4. GTA: San Andreas
5. Katamari Damacy
6. Devil may cry
7. Gran Turismo 4
8. GTA: Vice City
9. Virtua fighter 4:Evo
10. Metal Gear Solid 2+3
11. Ico
12. Ratchet and clank 2(best one.)
12. All of the Sony F1 series, I've met the makers in Liverpool, woo!
13. TOCA Race Driver.
14. Timesplitters
15. Xenosaga, I ain't played this that much but my mate got me a copy and I try to play it because it is such a potentially amazing game.
16. killzone

I didn't get those off a gaming site, sort of my collection plus ones I've seen banded around on fora, I've owned them all at some time except God of War but I'll get that.

Can you stop quoting me I do know what I wrote, and you seem to have a knack of taking things out of context.