Constructive Criticism on PES09
- Thread starter Amateur
- Start date
S-D-P
Registered User
they fucking need to but i doubt it . Forums are basically one huge source for audinece feedback so it would be a shame if developers didn't.
this was probably done already, but lets make an organised list of our complaints/future requests and send them. this can save them a lot of time and it will be more lickly for them to read.
jenicek68
Registered User
Exactly.. That's why we should make a list of complaints and solutions on first page.. But we should be quick, there is no time to waste.. Just put as many points as we can and day by day to talk about them, offer some solutions, vote about them and go for next point.. It should not take longer then two weeks, otherwise konami will have no time..
yes but we need to keep it as organised as we can. not like- untucked shirts, goalies golves... we need to right the important things first and put two explanations for why we chose it...
S-D-P
Registered User
my biggest gripes are with the gameplay and returning pes to the brilliant sim it once was, luckily fifa covers most of these problems so am i excited by what both games will offer next year. Hasn't the site already sent some sort of petition to konami regarding this, i am sure someone met with a konami representative.
Amateur
Registered User
Konami needs elaborated ideas, so there are no excuses.
A list on the other hand, it just states the obvious, a mere guideline that won't help much.
I'd rather waste an hour on a long and well thought idea -instead- of reading something like "they need to improve the animations and movements". That's obvious, everyone knows that.. But as fans something we should and can do is speak our minds about How we'd like to see some things improving.
A List isn't going to do that for us.
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So continuing with my series of rants, this time I just want to make it a short one.
So I was playing PES09, I've been playing PES6 (PS2) version for years now, and I've noticed many Stats missing.
I mean, shouldn't we have a Stat for "Long Range Shots" ?? A Special Ability doesn't do the trick, because it isn't accurate.
For one thing if Two Different players have a Shooting Stat of 90 and a Shooting Power Stat of 90, and a Shooting Technique of 90 -and- Both of them have "Outside Shot" as a Special Ability -- What decides whom of the two is better at Long Range Goals??
Maybe it would be better to divide the "Shooting Stats" into:
- Close Range Shot (Romario and the like)
- Long Range Shot (Matt Le Tissier, Van Basten, etc)
- Shooting Composure
- Shooting Technique
Konami could take out the old "Shooting" and "Shooting Technique" Stats, and replace them with the 4 Stats named above, just 2 New Stats that could establish some significant differences.
Has anyone else thought about this whilst playing PES?? If so, what other abilities/attributes do you think aren't covered properly?
Been playing PES 6 ever since it was released and went out and bought a PS3 just to play 2009. On first impressions i thought 'wow the graphics are great' and the graphics when the ball hit the net i thought were fantastic, but in the cold light day the gameplay is all that matters (look at Fifa every year up until this years version) you can add all the shine you want but as 2008 and now 2009 have proved, if the gameplay has problems then you aint got a game! I have now gone back to playing PES 6 on PS2 and my love for the game has returned.
dan80
Registered User
but like i say if konami dont come on here how they gonna get the letter the but anyway the thing on gameplay i dont like is the penalty system that really annoys me there needs to be a power bar cause 2day i got a pen and hit the post i would except it if it had a power bar and i done 2 much but its either u score or it goes wide
FryslansFury
Registered User
Hey,
I suppose you are talking about the 45 degree far-kick-dribble thingy?
If this is the case i also have the same problem, i run the game on xbox 360 tho. When i sprint and use a 45 degree far kick , sometimes the defender is , as you said earlier, in a perfect position to intercept the ball, they just back away from it, sometimes they even face away from the ball. It's pretty strange, i'm glad some one else also has the same problem
byondthought
Registered User
yeah no way, they are to busy twiddling their thumbs..!!
Amateur
Registered User
To conclude this thread, considering it haves no use at all.. because we barely managed to come up with anything constructive. Which was the point of the thread.
This is just a temporary or permanent end to this thread, before it gets into yet another pointless circle. So that if someone feels like giving constructive thoughts, they know where to pick up.
Anyways, Here's my less-generous take on PES09.
PES09 is a game that doesn't lives up to games like PES6 and PES5. As simple as. It is easier, it is slower in many aspects, it is less addictive.
Either that, or after playing PES for so many years, I've just grown out of it. For me it isn't good enough anymore.
It is a game that could have been "good" but isn't. Because the lack of movements and directions are a huge limitation, the main reason for the game's lack of feeling and intensity.
The movements are just embarrassing.. I have played 2K9 and FIFA09 and the movements are miles better. Hell, the PS2 versions of PES had better movement.
It is badly achieved minimalism as we barely have to THINK at all, I can basically eat whilst I play PES09. I only run, run, pass, tap R2, continue running, cut the ball, run, run, shoot -- Goal!!
That's not Football.
The heavily COM-Assisted Passes do not help in this matter, as too many miss-timed passes have little to do with you. Basic Passes going wrong for unknown reasons. Same thing happens with Penalty Kicks.
Assisted-Passes and Manual-Passes feel just as "Linear" as everything else in this game. It's like the ball can only go in 8-directions, and the pace on the pass doesn't varies enough.
And then there's the dribbling tricks/animations.
I can barely do any tricks in here. And players like Riquelme do not even play similar to their real-life counterparts, they should implement those "rolling the ball" or "South American Dribbles" animations.
It gets a bit boring when after just 3 or 4 games you realize you don't have anything else to master, you only have:
- Step Overs
- L1 + R1
- Shooting + (X)
- Left Stick + R2
And a few very slight, very irrelevant dribbles such as the Drag Back (which used to be cool back in PES6, but now it's irrelevant). And the outrageous "Tevez Roulette" and other unrealistic tricks that the game would be better without.
We still have "Dribbling Accuracy", "Dribbling Speed", and "Technique" as the dribbling stats -- which isn't specific enough, for obvious reasons.
Obvious reasons like the fact that "Cutting the Ball" and "Step Overs" are different abilities. And so on with all the Different Dribbling Abilities there are.
The same Old Strategies, the same Old 4 Types of Movements, the same Dribbling Moves, worst Controls, worst Movements, the same one-dimensional "arrows" system, etc, etc..
The Momentum Concept is still a Randomly Scripted thing, it lacks plenty of depth and reasoning.
And it seems Konami understands that the "Team Work" ability of an individual should be literally determined by a Team Work "Stat". Something as complex as "Team Chemistry" cannot depend on One Stat..
We still see agile players like Aguero, Ronaldo, and Messi -turning- into World Class Defenders if the situation calls for it, which is quite consistently.
We still see players like Luis Figo or Leo Messi unrealistically going out of bounds, still no real feeling as to the implications of "dribbling through the flanks".
Not even 4 or 7 New Stats to give us a hint of progress. Konami seems to be out of ideas, or out of ca$h. The certain thing is that FIFA is progressing, and PES is not.
Perhaps the drop in sales will inspire the next PES5. But they (Konami) have a mountain to climb.. as in 2009, playing it safe won't do the trick.
This is just a temporary or permanent end to this thread, before it gets into yet another pointless circle. So that if someone feels like giving constructive thoughts, they know where to pick up.
Anyways, Here's my less-generous take on PES09.
PES09 is a game that doesn't lives up to games like PES6 and PES5. As simple as. It is easier, it is slower in many aspects, it is less addictive.
Either that, or after playing PES for so many years, I've just grown out of it. For me it isn't good enough anymore.
It is a game that could have been "good" but isn't. Because the lack of movements and directions are a huge limitation, the main reason for the game's lack of feeling and intensity.
The movements are just embarrassing.. I have played 2K9 and FIFA09 and the movements are miles better. Hell, the PS2 versions of PES had better movement.
It is badly achieved minimalism as we barely have to THINK at all, I can basically eat whilst I play PES09. I only run, run, pass, tap R2, continue running, cut the ball, run, run, shoot -- Goal!!
That's not Football.
The heavily COM-Assisted Passes do not help in this matter, as too many miss-timed passes have little to do with you. Basic Passes going wrong for unknown reasons. Same thing happens with Penalty Kicks.
Assisted-Passes and Manual-Passes feel just as "Linear" as everything else in this game. It's like the ball can only go in 8-directions, and the pace on the pass doesn't varies enough.
And then there's the dribbling tricks/animations.
I can barely do any tricks in here. And players like Riquelme do not even play similar to their real-life counterparts, they should implement those "rolling the ball" or "South American Dribbles" animations.
It gets a bit boring when after just 3 or 4 games you realize you don't have anything else to master, you only have:
- Step Overs
- L1 + R1
- Shooting + (X)
- Left Stick + R2
And a few very slight, very irrelevant dribbles such as the Drag Back (which used to be cool back in PES6, but now it's irrelevant). And the outrageous "Tevez Roulette" and other unrealistic tricks that the game would be better without.
We still have "Dribbling Accuracy", "Dribbling Speed", and "Technique" as the dribbling stats -- which isn't specific enough, for obvious reasons.
Obvious reasons like the fact that "Cutting the Ball" and "Step Overs" are different abilities. And so on with all the Different Dribbling Abilities there are.
The same Old Strategies, the same Old 4 Types of Movements, the same Dribbling Moves, worst Controls, worst Movements, the same one-dimensional "arrows" system, etc, etc..
The Momentum Concept is still a Randomly Scripted thing, it lacks plenty of depth and reasoning.
And it seems Konami understands that the "Team Work" ability of an individual should be literally determined by a Team Work "Stat". Something as complex as "Team Chemistry" cannot depend on One Stat..
We still see agile players like Aguero, Ronaldo, and Messi -turning- into World Class Defenders if the situation calls for it, which is quite consistently.
We still see players like Luis Figo or Leo Messi unrealistically going out of bounds, still no real feeling as to the implications of "dribbling through the flanks".
Not even 4 or 7 New Stats to give us a hint of progress. Konami seems to be out of ideas, or out of ca$h. The certain thing is that FIFA is progressing, and PES is not.
Perhaps the drop in sales will inspire the next PES5. But they (Konami) have a mountain to climb.. as in 2009, playing it safe won't do the trick.
Amateur
Registered User
Looks like I'm the only one who feels like making some constructive suggestions after playing PES09. Which is disappointing.. but there's nothing I can really do about that.
So I'm pretty bored by now with PES09, not enough tricks or details, not enough controls. The more I look for new things to master -the- more I realize the game needs to offer us new things to master.
Anyways, I was "training" and I noticed that by holding L1 before every pass the players automatically sprints off on an attacking run. Something that makes the L1+R1 even more useful.
So I was thinking, if by holding L1 (or L2) before each pass the passer automatically sets off on an attacking run.. wouldn't it be cool to have something to elaborate on that. Maybe by Tapping the R2 on quick succession you could set another player on another/different tactical run.
Or in a different and more usual situation, if you passed the ball you could decide between the "standard attacking run" or the "specified attacking run" which is a tactical run you would get to choose to your liking. And we could decide that by simply Tapping R2 or Double Tapping R2.
By Tapping R2 Once the player performs the "standard attacking run". And by Double Tapping the R2 button the player performs the "assigned/specified tactical run".
So we would have both the standard attacking run, which has been in PES since always, but also an alternative run that could change according to you, it can be a different run for every player.
There are 10 players on the pitch, which means that the 10 of them could have different "assigned" tactical runs. Which would be a step in the right direction in regards to "Team Chemistry".
This all implies that each team would function with significant difference, as a result of having tactical runs that can vary for each player on the pitch, according to your needs or tactical approach. Something that again, goes hand-in-hand with team chemistry. Which is an aspect of the game that needs development.
Your team would function differently, because your opponent doesn't know what Type of Tactical Run you assigned to a particular player. With this feature implemented the game would not be as predictable and obvious as it is now.
This same Concept could even be applied to the buttons we use for passing and shooting the ball. You Pass the ball and then very quickly Tap the shooting button, or the crossing button, or the ground passing button, or the through pass button.
This would give us 4 Tactical Variations for each and every single player on pitch, which means there would be no need for the very Limited Strategies that can only offer the same 4 variations for all the individuals within a team.
For example, If we Double Tap the (x) button the player passes the ball and then sets off on the tactical run you assigned to the (x) button.
Which would be a very effective and simple to use feature. Double Tapping the (x) button has never functioned for anything in any PES title to date. Which is a great waste IMO, because Double Tapping the (x) would make a very intuitive control.
Be it by Double Tapping R2 or by Tapping other buttons right after a pass. Fact of the matter is that It would be a simple and yet very significant addition. I believe it would be a significantly different ball game IF a very very similar Gameplay Feature is implemented.
P.S - Do any of you guys have any opinion at all about what I just said??
So I'm pretty bored by now with PES09, not enough tricks or details, not enough controls. The more I look for new things to master -the- more I realize the game needs to offer us new things to master.
Anyways, I was "training" and I noticed that by holding L1 before every pass the players automatically sprints off on an attacking run. Something that makes the L1+R1 even more useful.
So I was thinking, if by holding L1 (or L2) before each pass the passer automatically sets off on an attacking run.. wouldn't it be cool to have something to elaborate on that. Maybe by Tapping the R2 on quick succession you could set another player on another/different tactical run.
Or in a different and more usual situation, if you passed the ball you could decide between the "standard attacking run" or the "specified attacking run" which is a tactical run you would get to choose to your liking. And we could decide that by simply Tapping R2 or Double Tapping R2.
By Tapping R2 Once the player performs the "standard attacking run". And by Double Tapping the R2 button the player performs the "assigned/specified tactical run".
So we would have both the standard attacking run, which has been in PES since always, but also an alternative run that could change according to you, it can be a different run for every player.
There are 10 players on the pitch, which means that the 10 of them could have different "assigned" tactical runs. Which would be a step in the right direction in regards to "Team Chemistry".
This all implies that each team would function with significant difference, as a result of having tactical runs that can vary for each player on the pitch, according to your needs or tactical approach. Something that again, goes hand-in-hand with team chemistry. Which is an aspect of the game that needs development.
Your team would function differently, because your opponent doesn't know what Type of Tactical Run you assigned to a particular player. With this feature implemented the game would not be as predictable and obvious as it is now.
This same Concept could even be applied to the buttons we use for passing and shooting the ball. You Pass the ball and then very quickly Tap the shooting button, or the crossing button, or the ground passing button, or the through pass button.
This would give us 4 Tactical Variations for each and every single player on pitch, which means there would be no need for the very Limited Strategies that can only offer the same 4 variations for all the individuals within a team.
For example, If we Double Tap the (x) button the player passes the ball and then sets off on the tactical run you assigned to the (x) button.
Which would be a very effective and simple to use feature. Double Tapping the (x) button has never functioned for anything in any PES title to date. Which is a great waste IMO, because Double Tapping the (x) would make a very intuitive control.
Be it by Double Tapping R2 or by Tapping other buttons right after a pass. Fact of the matter is that It would be a simple and yet very significant addition. I believe it would be a significantly different ball game IF a very very similar Gameplay Feature is implemented.
P.S - Do any of you guys have any opinion at all about what I just said??
Luis_Garcia
Registered User
I would post something, however you have illustrated most points I would come up with, and a lot more eloquently haha. As I'm not good at writing.
However this implementing of a 'tactical' run could well be effective. The most likely of it's inclusion would be, when setting attacking arrows, and defensive mindedness, there should be another screen, whereby you could set 2 or 3 tactical runs for each player (much like the attacking arrow screen) initiated by L1 and certain buttons.
I still believe all teams should have a way of playing, for example would love to have Stoke or someone, come to Liverpool and park the bus like they do in real life. Then have to break them down. So teams play more realistically. Trying to deal with Arsenal/Barca's quick passing. Getting hit on the counter by United. Pass and Move, Possession masterclass. These styles should be attributed to each team.
And I still stand by the fact that I still enjoy playing PES2009, but I don't like how I am forced to make it realistic (instead of constantly attacking which leads to a goal almost certainly, I like to pass it around waiting for space that way, trying to add realism and not score easy goals, anyone I've played online knows that
) So the thing that would make my experience most pleasurable would still be, and I can't stress it enough: Fluid slick movement, MORE animations, skills assigned to the right analog stick more fifa style (and like the old pro evo), players controlling the ball properly, not always having to control the ball perfectly, players like Alonso are awful in the game, as in real life they would take a good first touch in-front of them, then spray the ball out to another player - pass&move. However in PES they control the ball very close to their feet, which is annoying. Just a small tidbit. But the main essence of this is : more animations, more running styles, more player individuality, more fluidity.
However this implementing of a 'tactical' run could well be effective. The most likely of it's inclusion would be, when setting attacking arrows, and defensive mindedness, there should be another screen, whereby you could set 2 or 3 tactical runs for each player (much like the attacking arrow screen) initiated by L1 and certain buttons.
I still believe all teams should have a way of playing, for example would love to have Stoke or someone, come to Liverpool and park the bus like they do in real life. Then have to break them down. So teams play more realistically. Trying to deal with Arsenal/Barca's quick passing. Getting hit on the counter by United. Pass and Move, Possession masterclass. These styles should be attributed to each team.
And I still stand by the fact that I still enjoy playing PES2009, but I don't like how I am forced to make it realistic (instead of constantly attacking which leads to a goal almost certainly, I like to pass it around waiting for space that way, trying to add realism and not score easy goals, anyone I've played online knows that
) So the thing that would make my experience most pleasurable would still be, and I can't stress it enough: Fluid slick movement, MORE animations, skills assigned to the right analog stick more fifa style (and like the old pro evo), players controlling the ball properly, not always having to control the ball perfectly, players like Alonso are awful in the game, as in real life they would take a good first touch in-front of them, then spray the ball out to another player - pass&move. However in PES they control the ball very close to their feet, which is annoying. Just a small tidbit. But the main essence of this is : more animations, more running styles, more player individuality, more fluidity.trigglebeef
Registered User
I would post something, however you have illustrated most points I would come up with, and a lot more eloquently haha. As I'm not good at writing.
However this implementing of a 'tactical' run could well be effective. The most likely of it's inclusion would be, when setting attacking arrows, and defensive mindedness, there should be another screen, whereby you could set 2 or 3 tactical runs for each player (much like the attacking arrow screen) initiated by L1 and certain buttons.
I still believe all teams should have a way of playing, for example would love to have Stoke or someone, come to Liverpool and park the bus like they do in real life. Then have to break them down. So teams play more realistically. Trying to deal with Arsenal/Barca's quick passing. Getting hit on the counter by United. Pass and Move, Possession masterclass. These styles should be attributed to each team.
And I still stand by the fact that I still enjoy playing PES2009, but I don't like how I am forced to make it realistic (instead of constantly attacking which leads to a goal almost certainly, I like to pass it around waiting for space that way, trying to add realism and not score easy goals, anyone I've played online knows that
What you've said describes Fifa to a "T". EA have captured the characteristics of each Premier League team beautifully. Stoke are physical and compact. Newcastle are loose and easy to play nice football against, but do offer danger through the pace of Martins and Owen. United play ridiculous counter attacking football and punish you out of nowhere. Arsenal, who i play as, have difficulties defending in the air when against target men like Drogba and Heskey. It's so involving and true to life.
I don't fully understand how they achieved it. The only thing i can imagine is that it's a result of the ball really being it's own seperate enitity and the freedom you get with where you can direct it leading to players showing their characteristics more in the struggle to take control of it.
Proper manual controls, a greater number of animations and directions a player can run are an essential in future Pro Evo games. These things alone will bring it on a long way.
On top of this, they need to base the AI on a system of attacking players moving intelligently and the defenders reacting to this in an intelligent manner. At the moment it's as if a good defender has an attacker magnet stuffed up his arse that makes the attacking player run and stand behind him. The AI is illogical on so many levels.
Amateur
Registered User
I would post something, however you have illustrated most points I would come up with, and a lot more eloquently haha. As I'm not good at writing.
However this implementing of a 'tactical' run could well be effective. The most likely of it's inclusion would be, when setting attacking arrows, and defensive mindedness, there should be another screen, whereby you could set 2 or 3 tactical runs for each player (much like the attacking arrow screen) initiated by L1 and certain buttons.
I still believe all teams should have a way of playing, for example would love to have Stoke or someone, come to Liverpool and park the bus like they do in real life. Then have to break them down. So teams play more realistically. Trying to deal with Arsenal/Barca's quick passing. Getting hit on the counter by United. Pass and Move, Possession masterclass. These styles should be attributed to each team.
And I still stand by the fact that I still enjoy playing PES2009, but I don't like how I am forced to make it realistic (instead of constantly attacking which leads to a goal almost certainly, I like to pass it around waiting for space that way, trying to add realism and not score easy goals, anyone I've played online knows that
Agree with that.. that's pretty much what I think about PES09. It is hugely disappointing for me, because I expected something better by now.. But I have to admit that the game can be fun to play if you know how to play it correctly.
But like you, I still think the game should force us into playing realistically. It would educate a few fans in the process, as too many fans think that it's all about pulling off outrageous moves that are very unlikely to ever happen in real life.
Take a look at Leo Messi, simple, realistic dribbling. Unlike PES09, where you can easily zig-zag the length of the pitch.
That's why Konami needs to Divide the old "Dribbling Accuracy" into more Specific Stats such as:
- Cutting the Ball
- Step Overs
- Shielding the Ball
- Body Feints
- Flicking the Ball (Okocha move, etc)
- And the rest of them..
Anyways, I have noticed that controls like the "fake-shot" which is done by Shooting and then quickly tapping the (x) button. I have noticed that with enough practice this controls become a part of your game, something intuitive.
In my case, I shoot via the (o) button. Which means that the "fake shot" move is basically (0)+(x) without releasing the (o) button.
So I was thinking, what if by (x)+(o) the player passed the ball and then sprinted off on the tactical run that you assigned to the (0) button for that particular player.
Or by double tapping (x) or in other words by (x)+(x) -the- player passes the ball and then sprints off on the tactical run you assigned to the (x) button.. etc, etc.
It is something that would give us a more realistic array of tactical options, because you would have 4 Buttons that could work differently for every player on the pitch.
And maybe it could be further elaborated. Maybe, in a situation where you aren't receiving a pass nor passing the ball -by- Double Tapping the (o) button you could set up a tactical run that you practiced during "training".
Much like the "Strategies".. But unlike the strategies, it would give us 4 Different Options depending on Player and Position. Which would be something like 12 or more tactical options for in-game use.
Much better than having only 4 tactical options for all the individuals within a team.
Plus it would give us a tactical option that works without having to pass the ball, like the FIFA L1 Attacking Run.
Only difference is that it would be a lot more deeper than FIFAs L1 feature, because you would have an average of 8 or more tactical options for in-game use.
Amateur
Registered User
I agree with you, and can see that you love FIFA09.. I'm thinking about giving it a serious try myself.
Anyways, could I ask a small favor of you -- Could you post the entire set of Stats and Special Abilities (probably go by another name in FIFA) in FIFA09??
I would do it myself, but firstly I don't own a copy of FIFA09.. and secondly, I barely know FIFA09. So it would be better if someone who actually knows the New FIFA posted the Stats, and maybe elaborated a little on how they function.
Like for example why is it that "target men like Drogba and Heskey" are so good in the air?? Maybe EA has implemented New Stats into their game.
dan80
Registered User
u know players like heskey and drogba and tall players can win the ball more in the air cause they have good strenth or body balence or heading sometimes when u see the player hea the ball u can really see the effot that goes in the header and sometimes u jump to early u miss the ball
trigglebeef
Registered User
Exactly like Dan said. Drogba and heskey have good height, strength, body balance and jumping. Each of these stats combine when jostling for position to win a header, and during the actual jump to win the ball of course. The jostling is the key part really though, if you get it right you can beat them in the air with a smaller player. I used to love how in Pro Evo (around 4 and 5 if i remember rightly) you could use a touch of super cancel to bring your player in front of the striker/defender to win the header when they were initially trapped behind. Almost like jostling in a way. But you can't do that for shit in the newer versions, it just seems pre-determined who will win the header depending on their stats. Super cancel in general has gone downhill if you ask me, it used to work beautifully.