Defending+balance

[ProMartin]

It seems agile players are very difficult to mark this time, while heavy and slow defenders are far more vulnerable than 2008. I used to have slow defenders even for side backs in 2008 but now its suicide. On the other hand a fast but not strong defender like Lahm for instance is much more useful now, due to what it seems is a tweaking of strength differences.

I find these changes quite realistic but sometimes I feel agile and responsive players are favored too much in contrast with slow, tall,box players like Nisterloy that now have a harder time to keep the ball or take on a defender.

 

[shaun7]

Defending is tons better than 08 though as now I can stop Ronaldo for instance.

 

[ProMartin]

Ronaldo is ok. Eto is a major problem though :shocking:

 

[Amateur]

It seems agile players are very difficult to mark this time, while heavy and slow defenders are far more vulnerable than 2008. I used to have slow defenders even for side backs in 2008 but now its suicide. On the other hand a fast but not strong defender like Lahm for instance is much more useful now, due to what it seems is a tweaking of strength differences.

I find these changes quite realistic but sometimes I feel agile and responsive players are favored too much in contrast with slow, tall,box players like Nisterloy that now have a harder time to keep the ball or take on a defender.

This was also a problem in PES6 (PS2 Version), I defend better with fast and agile players -rather- than with Slow but great Defenders. Yes, Thierry Henry makes a better Defender than John Terry..

I think Konami MUST include New Defensive Stats because this is a disgrace, they treat the Defensive part of the game like if it was Unimportant.

I think New stats are needed to add more Depth to the Defensive Play of the game, maybe;

* Marking.
* Tackling.
* Sliding Tackle.
* Defensive Awareness.
* Defensive Midfielder Awareness.

With the current set of Stats and Special Abilities it is impossible to have proper Defenders. For one thing the greatest Defenders didn't stood out for their Pace, they stood out for their Defensive Positioning, their ability to read the game and anticipate plays accordingly.

This Reality should be in the game, it should be a Stat, just like there are Stats for Passing and Dribbling.

Bottom Line?? I think New Stats are needed, for one thing with the Defensive Stats I mentioned players would need to have those stats in order to Defend effectively. So it wouldn't just be about having Fast and Agile players -but- also about having that Defensive Ability to play in defensive Positions.

And by the way, How annoying is it to see Ronaldinho and Kaka working hard to regain possession -and- actually winning the ball. When has this ever happened in Real Life Football??

Yeah maybe Wayne Rooney and Carlos Tevez close done Space and Occasionally win the ball -but- most Forwards aren't "hard workers".

Plus, there is a Significant Difference between "Pressing" and actually "Winning the Ball" -wich- is Why I think more Defensive Stats are needed.

I think Konami also needs to set a Difference between "hard-working-forwards" and the "average-forward". I don't want to see Juan Roman Riquelme and Dimitar Berbatov working hard to regain Possession, that's just ridiculous.

Maybe some Stats could (also) settle that, Stats such as "Defensive Work Rate" and "Attacking Work Rate".

So that Wayne Rooney haves a Defensive Work Rate of 90 -whilst- Ronaldinho would have a Defensive Work Rate of 30. And so on..

Differences such as this aren't possible with the current set of Stats and Special Abilities.

 

[ProMartin]

Good points Amateur. I dont know exactly how much marking and covering abilities boost a defender's play but even a plain defender should mark and tackle better than Henry. It shouldnt be easy to steal and tackle with attacking players.

And by the way, How annoying is it to see Ronaldinho and Kaka working hard to regain possession -and- actually winning the ball. When has this ever happened in Real Life Football??

Precisely. Ronaldinho, ridiculusly, was the best defensive midfielder in PES2008. Strength, speed, response..made DMs like Cambiasso pale in comparison. Definetely Some more mental defensive stats should be introduced in the future. Anyone knows what is the effect of attack/defense rating except of how high or deep the player stays on the pitch?

 

[Amateur]

Good points Amateur. I dont know exactly how much marking and covering abilities boost a defender's play but even a plain defender should mark and tackle better than Henry. It shouldnt be easy to steal and tackle with attacking players.

Exactly.. there is a very Significant Difference between "pressing" your opponents -and- actually "winning the ball" from your opponents.

Maybe Thierry Henry can work hard and close down space -but- he shouldn't have the Ability of actually Stealing the Ball away from a gifted player. How unrealistic it is whenever Cristiano Ronaldo steals the ball from Riquelme, it's just ridiculous.

Why would I need someone to "carry the water" When Cristiano Ronaldo can play the Makelele Role better than Makelele himself?? It's simple, Defensive Play is lacking a Lot of Depth and Konami should address this problem ASAP.

New Defensive Stats will be needed.

By the way, I think the ones I mentioned would add a LOT of Depth to the game.

* Marking.
* Tackling.
* Sliding Tackle.
* Defensive Awareness.
* Defensive Midfielder Awareness.
* Defensive Work Rate.

With this 6 Stats we could have many more Types of players.. we could have the odd Defender who has good Positioning (Defensive Awareness) but isn't really good at one-on-one Marking (Marking).

Or we could have World Class Defenders who have Both the Defensive Awareness and Marking Ability.. plus we could further distinguish players like Paolo Maldini by giving them great "Sliding Tackles" ability.

Players like Gennaro Gattuso with their high "Defensive Work Rate" and "Stamina" -or- Defenders who have great "Defensive Awareness" but are Lazy in their Movements, etc, etc..

And even more importantly, we could distinguish Center Backs from Defensive Midfielders, there's a Difference between Defending in the back-line and Defending in a more Advanced Position.

So we could say that John Terry haves great "Defensive Awareness" -whilst- Claude Makelele haves a better "Defensive Midfielder Awareness".

Meaning that John Terry might not position himself very well in Advanced Positions, so you couldn't just place John Terry or any other Center Back into the Midfield -and- expect them to Position themselves just as effectively.

I think real progress will come Once Konami Revolutionize their Outdated system of Stats and Special Abilities -and- their even more Outdated 8 Directional Movement.

But the Potential is there, wich is the most important thing.

 

[oseedo]

Defending is tons better than 08 though as now I can stop Ronaldo for instance.

defnding ain't better than in pes2008, it's shockingly poor in pes2009. the defenders don't even tackle with strength no more, and after tackling they pause and watch the ball. i could stop ronaldo and messi all day in 2008. 2009 the defenders responses are very retarded and more often than not they get baffled, i find it even more easier to go past players in 2009. in 2008 certain players were in human, but in 2009 i can go past players with the average players and keep the ball. the AI in 2009 interfers way to much with my positioning, i don't like the control system with this assisted, semi assited bullshit. i want my manual setting to control players, but the one on 2009 is shit.

 

[Tum]

Ronaldo is ok. Eto is a major problem though :shocking:

Eto'o is "special case" bro....! Look at his Top Speed attribut = 99 ???
So, if you got a chance, it's better to tackle Eto'o as soon as you can, if not just cover him and don't try to charge him to close (tips: try UN-ASSISTED control if you can..., press L1 as soon as your defender approach him)

Another thing is the att and def arrow in your formation, they become more significant in PES2009 defending srtategy...1

 

[LostHorizon]

martins has 99 for both speed and acceleration, the first time i used him i thought something was wrong with the game, everything is slowed except for him! too bad his finishing is crap. basically, speed is the first attribute you look for no matter what the position.