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Konami it's time to listen - ***Big rant on the Master League** Massive post - Sorry!

killercam

Registered User
Time for a change Konami and it really is time to listen

Now listen I know the ml has been with us for some years now - it's been great purchasing players, building up your team, getting your team promoted, working hard to buy your first legit player, playing with the likes of Da Silva, Ragnotti, Castello/Castoro, Volander Etc, the joy of getting promoted, the heartbreak of losing out on promotion, winning cups and leagues so you can splash out on Roberto Carlos (yep we've all been there) and even in these past couple of releases you can play as an original team which is great no doubt. It was a good idea by Konami - but now it’s time for a change.

What I’m saying is ml should be completely scrapped yes I did say scrapped, got rid off, thrown in the rubbish - I’m sorry there's a certain excitement that us pro evo players crave - I’m talking about hardcore football fans who want everything replicated as in real life not some shoddy unrealistic leagues - we want real football.

Now what I’m about to say may shock some of you but it's been a long time coming imvho.

The ml is a joke - Do Konami think that we're really satisfied with a couple of 'improvements' in the ml - I tell you what's wrong with the current system from start to finish.

The Leagues

1) For a start Division 2 - 8 teams, division 1 -16 teams - if you're gonna do a league Konami then at least have the correct amount of teams in it - 20 teams. And Maybe a sub division with 8 - 12 teams (because I know it's asking alot to have 20 top tier and 20 second tier teams). I mean big division 1 teams like reading, sheff utd, Leeds is in there.

2) Wefa championship the champions league Ok so you’ve just won the league with your team ,let’s take Spurs for example, and you’re all set to go in the Champions league next season, the draw is made and you’re sitting there to see whose group you’re in ‘could it be Porto, Villareal or even a super power full team like Juventus but no whose in you’re group. Arsenal who you played 4 times last season twice in the league, twice in the cup, Aston Villa and Chelsea – Yea - great champions league when it’s all English teams Ok you get over this and realise you’re be playing European teams if you get through to the knock-out stages. You play the first game…….. In the daytime! In a half empty stadium

A bit of variety Konami – bit of choice, keep it exciting ffs. Why not replicate the full champions league meaning preliminary rounds, group stages, knock out stages all the way to the final, and just change the name because off all the license bs.

The Transfer Policy

1) The whole transfer policy needs to be replaced if you ask me and the one thing that stands out is that when you bid for a player and it’s been rejected you’re not a given a reason, so you don’t know whether it’s the player wages, the contract or the transfer fee. How many times have I bidded for Adriano to only see rejected and I’d like to know why – is my team not big enough, am I not offering enough money What is it?….

2) Real Money! Any danger Konami - or at least Euros so we can work out a players price tag. Whose fed up of pts "Ronaldinho is worth 1267 pts and his YEARLY salary is 1142" No he's not!!, YEARLY let's be realistic now I’d rather see Ronaldinho £65m WEEKLY salary £95,000 or something like that, a bit of research on player values and wages would be great.

3) I don’t know if this applies to everyone but I play on 6* so I don’t know if the conditions are different but when I put players on the transfer list I don’t get teams coming in for them what is the point? Same for loans I’ve had many youngsters the Orreano’s/Soler’s etc but they can’t get into the 1st team due to better players in from of them. I want them to go and get some experience and come back a better player but no I’m waiting for offers (which they should be available for the whole season not just the end)

4) Realistic transfers from the cpu teams – Come on I hate this I really do. I remember on one ml I was playing with Valencia, AC Milan decided to buy Dean Marney and he played against me Needless to say he played pants. On another one Real Madrid bought Robbie Savage (I’m not lying) AS IF that would happen and it takes away the realistic feel of the game. I’ve lost count the number of times I’ve lined up with my Barca team ready to take on Real Madrid when someone’s in their starting line up who shouldn’t be there.

5) Funds – you can start with 5000, 8000, 12000, 30000 pts……… What complete crap! Get Rid - Real money is the key, how about if you’re a team like Lazio – they’re bankrupt so they don’t have much funds – something like £3m - £5m per season or like chelsea who have a unlimited resources they’ll start with £130m something simple like that – all it needs is a bit of research.

6) Player contracts – I don’t see why we can’t renew them when they’re halfway through it or when you want to tie them down for a mega deal – But we have to wait until their contract runs down

Master League in general

1) Players need to get unhappy if they don’t play. In a season I had words class players sitting on the bench. Ronaldo only managed to play about 10 games – do you think he’ll stand for that – come on, at then end of the season he was begging for a new contract because his contract was in it’s last year so I gave him 10 more pts and he was happy. Yea real realistic Konami.

2) The fatigue system is quite a good idea but it’s flawed Why Keepers get tired I’ll never know because they don’t do anything – High stamina players like Gatuso and Lampard get tired once in a while – like this would happen in real life. Players with low stamina obviously need resting but not every 3 games – it’s a joke.

3) The whole training system need a revamp – The regulate condition need not be there (Imo arrows need to be replace by a player morale/confidence stat). At the end of the season you can either play friendly matches or train your team – why not both? One thing I do like atm is the fact that you can give players personal training but why can’t we do that throughout the season? I would love for this to happen – Players should pick up injuries in training as well.

4) National squad call ups *evil stare at konami* Whoever put this in TAKE IT OUT I beg you it’s just silly, which European country plays during the season (unless you have an international break) when they come back, they’re mashed and you have to wait about 2-3 games until they’re fit again

5) The point Ranking system needs to be changed Because 1) the match ratings are wrong so it’s never gonna be correct and they need to have rating for each league, then have ratings for Europe and so on.

5) I like the idea of players retiring but per...lease why do they appear next season as a 17 year old. At least change their name - This needs to be sorted, I don't mind new players coming through but no regens.

6) Get rid of ledgens I can't stand the idea of Pele and Best running rings around Rio Ferdinand - they have no place in th eml

7) Lastly the vastly over-rated and unrealistic experience points system. Firstly it’s been improved no from last year (Thankfully) but there are still areas of work they need to concentrate on.

You get more experience points playing in the league than the Champions league and the Cup. IMO you should only get a small amount of exp. points when you play in the league games and get bigger points in the cup semi-finals and Finals and in the Champions League – certainly against the bigger teams
When you get exp. points only certain stats go up – why doesn’t the weak foot acc/freq. change or consistency/condition change depending on how they’ve been playing what about their injury setting – why can’t this increase and decrease depending on how many times they’ve been injured through the season. Why can’s they gain special abilities – If you train a player enough in training to break the offside trap then depending on his exp points he would have lines etc. Countless possibilities

We need a proper season, proper meaning premiership, la liga, Serie A, Ligue 1, bundesliga etc to coincide with eachother. Proper meaning if you're playing premiership 20 teams, 38 games, F.A cup and Carling cup included same with la liga - 20 teams, 38 games copa Del Rey. Then we have the Champions League, UEFA cup, Intertoto cup, super cup etc as in real life. I think they need to follow the example of Championship manager now that would be cool

Now I’ll probably get flamed for this some may agree with me and some may not but it had to be said

*Awaits go and play F*fa responses*

Peace

btw I posted this on pesfan - I am Shady Dan over there so it's not copied
 

Singey

Registered User
Wow, that took me ages to read! I agree though, youve pointed out the weaknesses of the ml, but to be honest, you cant expect konami to do all this for pes6... surely? There's bound to be some flaws to a game that kicks fifa's ass, a game thats the best in the world ;)
 

PES4KING05

Registered User
killercam said:
2) Real Money! Any danger Konami - or at least Euros so we can work out a players price tag. Whose fed up of pts "Ronaldinho is worth 1267 pts and his YEARLY salary is 1142" No he's not!!, YEARLY let's be realistic now I’d rather see Ronaldinho £65m WEEKLY salary £95,000 or something like that, a bit of research on player values and wages would be great.

This is realistic if you think about it. 65m to around 50m. Some good points though in the rest.
 

g33k

Registered User
singey said:
but to be honest, you cant expect konami to do all this for pes6... surely?

Meh, the fundamentals of the game are all there, I don't see why they can't make such a big improvement. Not like they need to build the engine from scratch.
 

Usul

Registered User
One cannot help but agree with you, killercam, because you point out so many obvious flaws of the master league.

I think that Konami are simply cheap bastards that mainly focused on game mechanics and have some moron in charge that has orders to not make the best game that they can so they are able to produce more and cheaper sequels with very little improvement from one to the next. It's either that or they are a bunch of fools that know very little about football...

Players should pick up injuries in training as well.
I think they do if they are very tired and you force them to train.
 

Dragonfly

Waiting....
I've asked this question before, but I'm not sure if anyone answered it: Do Konami actually go through all (or at least the more popular) PES forum? If not, then it would be wise to do so.
 

Singey

Registered User
I doubt they do, theyve got too much on their mind for six months lazing in the sun thinking about what crap job they've done on pes5 and then finishing the next in the series in 1 month and then lazing around again. I hope they dont mess up again in pes6
 

PES ADDICT 117

Registered User
dragonfly said:
I've asked this question before, but I'm not sure if anyone answered it: Do Konami actually go through all (or at least the more popular) PES forum? If not, then it would be wise to do so.

Obviously not, or we wouldn't have threads like this. And i agree it would be helpful if they did because then they could hear what the fans of the series want.
 

Dragonfly

Waiting....
I'm sure they can make the PERFECT PES, but they also know doing that might mean people might not buy the future sequels.
 

Singey

Registered User
There's bound to be some flaws in the game, the more they put into the game, the more we will want, there's ALWAYS improvements that can be made in any game
 

That_was_not_a_foul!

Registered User
Right i can't be arsed to quote bits, i'll just go over topics in general

Wefa championship....

Yeh it's shit, playing teams you've already played is just stupid. But there's not enough teams in the game to make it any better to be honest, a knock-out stage would be much better imo.

Reason for Refusal to move....


Good idea

Real Money...

The problem with this is that it would make the game waaaay too big, look at how much memory it takes up anyway, that's without actually having to process anything. Look at football manager, it eats away at pc's RAM and takes up a huge capacity. That's without graphics. What you're asking for isn't really possible

Realistic Transfers...

Never had any problem on mine tbh. Infact i've found the computer to be rather shrewd in it's signings, like Babel and Yoocan.

Fatigue...

Yeh this pisses me off loads. It seems to be completely random as to who gets tired aswell.

Legends...

The legends are in it so that you can create the perfect team to face your mates. In the previous version you could turn them off, can you not do this in pro evo 5? I love the legends personally.

Proper Competiotions

Again not possible due to lack of teams and Konami being gay.

I would like a proper cup rather than D1 and D2 cup, which is just ridiculous. A just general D1+D2 cup would be so much better, and some giant-killing would make it infinitely more enjoyable.
 

killercam

Registered User
That_was_not_a_foul! said:
Right i can't be arsed to quote bits, i'll just go over topics in general

Wefa championship....

Yeh it's shit, playing teams you've already played is just stupid. But there's not enough teams in the game to make it any better to be honest, a knock-out stage would be much better imo.

Reason for Refusal to move....


Good idea

But Surely for the next gen systems they have't got an excuse about putting more teams in. More power, more capabilities, more memory should allow Konami to to this

That_was_not_a_foul! said:
Real Money...

The problem with this is that it would make the game waaaay too big, look at how much memory it takes up anyway, that's without actually having to process anything. Look at football manager, it eats away at pc's RAM and takes up a huge capacity. That's without graphics. What you're asking for isn't really possible

Why would this make it any bigger - All that needs to be done is convert it from pts so money..simple isn't it?

That_was_not_a_foul! said:
Realistic Transfers...

Never had any problem on mine tbh. Infact i've found the computer to be rather shrewd in it's signings, like Babel and Yoocan.

The computer can be so inconsistant sometimes. I've had shrew signings from the computer but the signings I quoted above are completey crap.

That_was_not_a_foul! said:
Legends...

The legends are in it so that you can create the perfect team to face your mates. In the previous version you could turn them off, can you not do this in pro evo 5? I love the legends personally.

This is down to personal opinion but they should make an option to have them in the ml on or off simple
 

Ko_nami

Registered User
You've made some good points killercam. Spot on.

I've been saying for a while now that Konami need to overhaul the Master League completely. Just to bring a bit of realism to the whole thing.

Even a change of name from the "Master League" to "Career mode" would be a positive move.
 

Chuck Morris

aka BlueScouse
I agree with everything killercam has said, I can't stand the ML anymore. FIFA's carrer mode is much better than PES5's ML and I think Konami need to wake up and realise that alot of Pro Evo gamers are not happy with way they have structured one of the most important aspects of the game.
FFS Seabass, read these forums and take note on what WE think needs to be improved for future titles!
 

Ray_H

Registered User
I still love the master league. for me, it is Pro. In terms of gameplay modes it was always the one thing that was fundamentally different and almost better than Fifa. However I agree with you on many issues.

The wefa championships are a joke, all games played during the day is totally pathetic and so is drawing teams from your own league every year. I'm in a league with Stuttgart and played them 8 times in one season (twice in the league, twice in cup, four times in wefa)

the whole weather thing is a joke, always sunny, and yea, the leagues should definately be bigger (it gets annoying playing as many cup games as league ones during the season), with a 2 division cup competition etc etc

BUT..........

these are all minor changes in organisation to the master league, I see no reason to scrap it all together. Why? because nobody can tell me, that theres a finer sight in all of videogaming then watching your team of nobodies grow and develop into a team of champions. Tis priceless
 

soccerplaya480

Registered User
Definately agree with all of the points made. It was a long post, but i don't mind when it is spot on like that one. a few of these i have also wondered about...

- one thought i didn't see was the change of the calendar. i can't stand the current calendar. i would like to see months and days go by as oppose to whatever they call the system used now. also maybe in the next gen games they can have a calendar that the game sets up and can change it if need be. if west ham are in the league than chances are they are not in the champions league so there for they can play more "league" matches in a week than say a liverpool or man utd. because they also have cup games. so if you get knocked out of the cup than you may have some games switched to mondays like in real life. a tentatove schedule subject to change. that is a stretch i know but it would be nice.

- the international call ups are maddening. first you are right, no european team plays during the same time clubs are playing. i usually play with man utd. and to have Neville, Ferdinand, Smith, Rooney, Evra, Silvestre, and Saha all out when England plays France is horrible. then they are out for like 2-3 weeks because they come back so tired. that has to be changed.

- that goes along with the whole fatigue thing. has to be redone.

- the transfers must be done better. real money would be a big plus and being able to loan players out is needed. if you have a big squad than you need to have that option. there are teams who get plenty of injuries who could use a bardsley or eagles on loan.

- the other thing too i would like to see is if you actually make money not necessarily from winning, but by ticket sales. if you are winning matches like you should than im sure your sales would be high. so you are raking in the money. your money also can depend on your stadium size. if you are arsenal than you aren't making quite as much money as newcastle although your tickets are probably almost always sold out. if need be you can build a new stadium, it will cost you two arms and a leg. somewhere in the hundreds of millions. i know im stretching here but it would be a nice addition. in other EA games you can even set ticket prices which has an effect on sales and then ultimately # of tickets sold and your whole budget. there should be somewhere in the game where just because i have 100 million pounds to spend doesn't mean that it can all go to players. maybe your player budget is only 30 million pounds or so and the rest is paying your current staff's salary or stadium improvements. something like that. maybe when more sponsors sign on to Winning Eleven than you could shop around sponsors as well.

alright let me wake up and stop dreaming but the next installment needs to be a much better improvement on things otherwise it will end up like FIFA and just minor improvements each year.
 

jamez

Calcio Agriculturus
I agree with pretty much everything you have written, Killercam. Most of these points have been raised before, but that just shows how Konami have not listened.

Next to FIFA, PES is starting to look a bit amateurish as far as career mode is concerned. Is it that hard to implement a real-world league structure, with all the top European leagues running in-sync, and with UEFA cup and Champions League as well (as you said, it doesn't have to be licensed, as long as the format is the same)?

As PES6 is likely to be on the next gen consoles, i really think Konami need to wake up on this issue and make a brilliant game even better. Oh and on the subject of money rather than points in the ML - Sensible World of Soccer had pretty much every professional player in the world in that game, all of which had a value in pounds. This was squeezed onto a couple of floppy disks well over a decade ago, so theres no reason Konami could do this in PES6.
 
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