Long Dull Boring Games........

[PacMan]

Going back to the title of the thread, I guess games turned out to be anything but dull

 

[waylando]

JakeSmall are you related to this Seabass? I dont think, assuming that you play a good deal of PES, that you havent got to see the cheats yourself. Cmon man sometimes is so obvious! Stop defending the game just because you spend so many hours a day mashing up the buttons, so you can supercancel every model in the game!! im not saying the AI cheats all the time, and its true, it plays with the same tools, but, to use your scenario: it a physics model (wich is all based in maths, as you should know), so when human player tries to run, the CPU calculates the speed using the input such as the acceleration, speed, position and the arrow the player is on. But if the AI runs, it just gets the speed it needs, so thats why so many times we see slow big players going past our speedy wingers. You can see this "cheating" when the cpu uses a fast player (C ronaldo for example) to perform always perfect sliding tackles. His numbers in that section are low, but the AI is going to make him do well because the numbers and all the probabilistic models only applies to the human player. I know youre gonna tell me that i suck in the game and that i dont place my defence correctly, thats your point of view. Just stop defending somethin so obvious.

 

[murc]

Good grief, Jake. I hope you love this game to DEATH. You're making Seabass out to be some patron saint to football simulation, when in fact, he is no more than a business man. I mean, he's good at what he does... just not great... exactly like his game.

 

[Jake Small]

im not saying the AI cheats all the time, and its true, it plays with the same tools, but, to use your scenario: it a physics model (wich is all based in maths, as you should know), so when human player tries to run, the CPU calculates the speed using the input such as the acceleration, speed, position and the arrow the player is on. But if the AI runs, it just gets the speed it needs, so thats why so many times we see slow big players going past our speedy wingers. You can see this "cheating" when the cpu uses a fast player (C ronaldo for example) to perform always perfect sliding tackles. His numbers in that section are low, but the AI is going to make him do well because the numbers and all the probabilistic models only applies to the human player.

Sorry, but you're full of crap. The AI does not "make him do well because the model only applies to humans". That is absolute rubbish, my friend. You are doing something wrong. PES is not an easy game to learn and I've had my controller tossing moments too. But if you see C Ronaldo do a perfect slide tackle, it just means that the computer imputed it at the right time and correctly, just like you are able to (in theory).

If the new release has flaws, as I'm sure it will, I'll be first to point them out, but some of you are actually full of crap and need to learn to play rather than bitch about it.

Murc, when did I claim that PES was perfect or that Seabass was a genius? Never. I'm just arguing with what I see as bogus claims.

Just because something happens in the game that rains on your parade and does not go according to your plan doesn't mean that it's a cheat. I play Unreal Tournament 2004 too and when you hand down a severe beating it's all anybody can do is moan about how you cheat, simply because they cannot fathom how they ever lost at something they considered themselves to be good at.

 

[lfcboy]

I think the cheating of AI makes the game more fun.

 

[PacMan]

Hey, if I can perform perfect sliding tackles with Minanda, then I guess C. Ronaldo can do it.


Not that Minanda is a bad player...
I wouldn't want to demoralize him with the first season in PES 2008 Division 2 drawing so close, you see.

 

[Dragonfly]

Good point. I think a tackling stat would be great. Someone like Scholes will have shit tackling.

 

[MatTheCat]

SNIPPED
Fanboy on the verge of having his illusions burst

Look Jake.....I think ProEv2008, for all the dissapointment at the lack of obvious advancement is gonna be the best football game this planet has ever seen.....Despite all the ostensible gameplay complexities that FIFA has to offer....we all know that once everyone starts to figure that game out....its gonna be so unrewarding and sucky...

But as for the issue of whether the AI 'cheats' or not.....COURSE IT BLOODY DOES......AND NOT JUST IN ONE PLAYER GAMES....IT CHEATS IN TWO PLAYER MODE AS WELL!!!!

A further example, would be Seabass admitting to a guy I know (The reigning UK PES Champ for past 3 years, Rob McLean), that he has made PES so that the AI favours the attacking team in the dying minutes of games. See....this is why there are so many goals in stoppage time or in last 5 virtual minutes of games......COS THE AI SCRIPTS THE GAME IN THAT WAY AND MAKES DRAMATIC LATE GOALS EASIER TO COME BY THAN OTHER GOALS.......There has even been studies done to monitor the frequency of goals scored on PES6 at different stages of the game and lo and behold......a vastly disproportionate amount of goals are indeed scored in stoppage time....

The glut of 'dramatic' late goals have not come about as a result of either one player trying harder or another panicking, but as a result of the AI BENDING THE PLAY to make stoppage time goals easier......I suppose this is Seabass's way of making the game more exciting...

Bottom line is that with PES6 especially...the AI interferes and scripts the gameplay like never before in order to make games more 'interesting'. Problem is that as soon as gamers become wise to what is happening, (and there are a huge number of us all saying the same thing), The intended effect of leaving us 'enthralled' is swapped for 'losing' gamers being left feeling disgusted and embittered at the game and 'winning' gamers feeling kind of indifferent due to realising that probably the AI was more responsible for the win than their own efforts were.

Sorry, but anyone who cannot see what 1000's of disgruntled PES gamers mean when we refer to 'Scripting', 'Bad-Luck-Simulation', or 'Cheatin AI', is in my eyes incapable of reading between the lines and seeing the wood from the trees on all PES related matters.

 

[murc]

Murc, when did I claim that PES was perfect or that Seabass was a genius? Never. I'm just arguing with what I see as bogus claims.

I know you don't think he's perfect... I just think that you think that he's doing much more than I believe he is doing to develope this game. And I'm also just saying, I hope it doesn't let you down in ANY way. You're so ready for the release.. almost like the Halo junkies.

 

[Jake Small]

No... TBH I am not really pumped for the game or anything, I might not even buy it until summer.. it's just that I used to think there were ten million things wrong with PES but have mostly sorted it out by learning little tricks and techniques and I think I enjoy the game more for it.

Gameplay I know they will improve. The thing that bugs me is every year same lame commentary and no real ML improvements, no real atmospheric improvements etc.