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ML Mode - Lesser Lights League

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crazyhorse

Registered User
Conquered 5*? What next!?

Hi fellas... been lurking here for some time (PES2), and have enjoyed reading your posts! Was looking at the <a href="http://forum.pesinsight.com/showthread.php?t=88">Master League Team Comparison thread</a> and decided I'd post a few thoughts... thoughts that might appeal to anyone coasting at the game's toughest levels :)

I had one of those teams (i.e. Shevchenko, Raul, Vierra, Davids, Nesta, etc.) that are shown in that thread, but after winning the treble twice in three years on 5* (PES3) I decided to try something else... to create a different type of challenge... to basically play at being a smaller club.

It's easy to do, as all you need is to implement is a arbitary wage structure and tranfer policy... make like you have the financial clout of a Spurs, Southampton, Everton, rather than one of the top European sides. All you need are some simple rules, and mine are...

- No more than 4 tranfers per season (player-exchanges or squad enhancements)...
- No outfield exchanges/aquisitions where the incoming player has a wage-pt demand higher than 600... *
- No GK exchanges/aquisitions where the incoming player has a wage-pt demand higher than 450...

* (I do allow myself to bid for players demanding more than 600 pts, but I can only offer them <600 ~ sometimes they come, sometimes they don't).

I have only one other rule (call it an incentive), but to date I haven't been able to make use of it...

- Outfield & GK wage-pt maximums may be increased by 25 pt in the season following any Div 1 or Euro trophy win, <b>but</b>, if no trophy is won in the subsequent 3 seasons, wage-pts are reduced again to the normal levels.

NB: Contract renewals are handled the same as new contracts... you can only offer <600. You do need to keep an eye on the likely demands of players in Mangement/Negotiate/Releases, and you may have to offload a player (exchange) before he Bosman's you!

What might a person get out of such a challenge...!? For me, it adds a nice degree of sim to a great arcade footy game. I love being the underdog too... and coz it's so much tougher to win, you watch the replay of EVERY goal you score with an immense amount of pride (and no little relief, too)... and if you keep a clean sheet, and you'll be calling your mom/wife/gf into the room... ;)

I can well imagine that there are many of you out there that have set yourselves ML challenges, and I'd love to hear about them. I'd also be very pleased to hear some feedback on my rules to, if anyone has any thoughts.

So anyways... that's post #1 :D
 
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t1000v2.0

Registered User
Interesting post..welcome to the forum. For some of us though...havent quite cracked 5* master league...well I havent yet anyways...but if i manage to get to your level, then yeah, sounds like a good idea...to add a bit of a challenge.
 
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LIAMXXX

Registered User
*****

good idea mate i too have cracked 5* and think i might try your suggestions. i love this game so much but i wish there was some sort of extra difficult mode because im now reduced to playing my mates all the time which is great but i love playing the computer and having a proper challenge. roll on pro evo 4!!!!
 
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crazyhorse

Registered User
Heh... maybe 'conquered' is too strong is word :eek:

I think the thing is that the biggest buzz I get from any ProEvo ML career is having some vague 'emotional-attachment' to the team I build ~ sure... losing sucks, and having successful seasons is fun, but once you have a few seasons with a top squad, all I really wanna do is get top-scorer & -assister (is that a word?)... the former normally comes down to my Shevchenko versus COM's Giovanni, and the latter, my Scholes or Raul versus COM's Rivaldo or some such person.

After about 6 seasons my team was pretty much settled as...

GKs : Kirally (Lee-Wong Jae, Ivarov)
DFs : Nesta, Cannavarro, Samuel (Marquez, Inan Coldona, others...)
MFs : Vierra (Cpt), Davids, Scholes, Freddie L., Ismailov (IIlola, Guti, Ghioane, Aimar, others...)
FWs : Shevchenko, Raul (Titov, Rebrov, Martins, others...)

...not unbeatable by any means, but a sure enough bet for the league (sometimes stumbling in the cups). You could certainly count on having the meanest defence and the best strike-rate in the league (like twice as many goals scored as any COM team).

With the new rules in place however, it's a whole new ballgame... I'm actually gonna be delighted if I ever make the WEFA Master's Cup...!!! Now I actually get the kinds of results that all the COMs teams are getting ~ 1-0 wins & losses... maybe a stunning 3-1 win or a 4-1 hammering... it's so unpredictable (in Div1 anyway).

Boy... I can waffle ~ all I was intending to post was that, by no stretch of the imagination was I trying to blow my own trumpet here :)

@ LIAM ~ Cool that you've hit the heights, amigo! Maybe you could have a closer look at those rules and see what you think. We might come up with something same/similar, between us (something that suits us both), that we could both do in tandam! It might be good fun if we were both trying the same sort of thing. We could maybe even get a thread going and post updates... in a full-on PES geek-stylie :D
 
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MarkyP

Registered User
Having just got the game and not started a master league yet I am nowhere near yor standard - plus I do alot of human vs human play.

However, I do like your style. I'd be interested should I get to crack it at 5*.

oh, and welcome to the boards.....
 
Zygalski

Zygalski

Administrator
Welcome crazyhorse. That's a great idea for making ML mode more interesting. It's too easy to make amazing teams and very few people (like mikeom1) play the game with "lesser" players in their teams. I'll be giving it a go soon too. Nice one :)
 
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crazyhorse

Registered User
Many thanks for the warm welcome... all of you :)

@ Zygalski ~ Ace...! Again, like LIAMXXX, if you can improve on these rules or think of others, please post your ideas.

<wonders> If, over the next few weeks or so, there seems to be some significant interest in this sort of thing, would it be possible to make a 'sticky' thread for people to share their 'Lesser Lights' stories? </wonders>

I know the Championship Manager boyz have a similar sub-culture... the Lower League Manager's. If I remember right, they also had a rule (re. posting etiquette) that might be worth considering... it's ok to post anything EXCEPT a player's name! If there are several people trying this, a lot of the fun would be in our trawling the players' database for the bargain of the season.
 
Zygalski

Zygalski

Administrator
Sure we could make this thread a sticky. Maybe the thread name would need to be made a little clearer so people would be able to see clearly what this one is about. We'll see how popular it is first.

How about a rule that you can only have up to 2 players for each nationality in your squad? Or would a limit of 1 player be better?
 
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crazyhorse

Registered User
I hear you as regards the thread title... how about we just leave this as the psuedo-sign-up thread, and if the idea flys, we post a new and 'sticky' <b>Lesser Lights League</b> for the actual update thread?

I like that idea of setting limits on nationality... though without giving it too much thought, I'd be inclined to lean the other way. Say, for instance, we set an upper squad limit to 25 players, then we could make it a rule that you must have (e.g.) 10 players of the same nationality...!

That would mean that <u>a</u> - our teams would be more like regional sides going up against the big teams (I would imagine that most D2 sides around the world, whatever league, are primarily made up from players of that country), and <u>b</u> - we might get a lot more permutations as to the players bought by us playing the game (we might not all pick the same sub-600 OMF if we need to regionally bias our squads).

...umm

...in fact, your idea does EXACTLY the same thing :eek: It definitely increases the number of permutations, probably even more so than my suggestion!

So then we have a choice... some regional authenticity OR the greatest number of permutations!?! Either will require that we are not only considering ability levels, and to me that's a great idea :cool:
 
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yonson99

Registered User
Good thinking people. i think you may want to change the thread title, as i thought that the "*****" meant some cussing going on!

A slightly different option that I used when I was winning everything on WE6:FE, I started a master league with my team (Newcastle) and set about only buying their real world players, this made the game harder as I didn't have super players in all positions (if your favourite team is real madrid then you might want to pick a different team :) ). The only problem is that i got bored of having to keep the same players year after year (which is why your method is better cos it allows lots of tinkering still) so then i set about creating a team made up entirely of 'developed' players...i still won nearly everything every year, but each match was a real battle and i had to fight for every win.

Of course, the real super challenge is to take the default master league players and take them to the top without buying anyone else....
 
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crazyhorse

Registered User
yonson99 said:
Of course, the real super challenge is to take the default master league players and take them to the top without buying anyone else....
Click to expand...
Boy... that sounds like a whole lotta heartache :eek:;) Have you tried it? You are right, for sure, but I'm not sure <b>I</b> could handle the associated stress for season after season... limited transfers at least give you the hope that you'll find a GK who won't come out flapping like a goose as the ball sails in over his head!!! I'm all for making any community-challenge tough though... you could always introduce a rule that 50% (or 30%, 60%, or whatever) of the original squad must be maintained indefinitely.

If the Zigster or another admin can change the thread subject, that's cool... heh... I missed the 'curse' thing totally.
 
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samvanpes

Banned
I played withoput signing a single real player, all youth, im 2nd on goal diff in my fth season in div 1, the worst team but piliniak, dunant, straus are O.K. This was a great challenge, i only have one default player, all the rest are youths.
 
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Cellini

Registered User
Underdog's Master League

WEFA Cup or Championship: Similar to the real world I think, finish in top 4 to get into Championships, but finish in 5th to 8th to qualify for the Cup instead?

The developing rules for an Underdog's Master League format sound cool. A very good idea.

What was the old UEFA rule before Bosman? It used to be something like no more than 3 'foreign' players played picked to play in a game.

There are real world financial rules in most European leagues now, they might provide a model for something similar in PES3/WE7 terms.
 
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Zygalski

Zygalski

Administrator
Craiiig David said:
could someone tell me how u get into the Masters cup,instead of WEFA Championships. Thank u please.
Click to expand...


The thread is titled: "WEFA Championships/Masters' Cups Qualification Criteria [PES3/WE7]"

Can't really make it any clearer than that mate.
 
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crazyhorse

Registered User
- Nice one

Good job, Zyg... now we just need some people, some in-stone rules, errr, and we're sorted.

The issues so far...

1 : wage-pt max for GK
2 : wage-pt max for DF/MF/FW
3 : max seasonal number of transfers/exchanges/resignings
4 : max squad size
5 : nationality distribution of the squad
6 : number of default players (if any) to be maintained.

1-5 can be managed easily enough, but in conjunction with point 1, point 6 may be tough to implement if we don't put some thought into it (Minanda might want more than the max and refuse to resign), or you could simply lose someone on a Bosman.

Some thoughts...

...the 'wage-pt max' is really dictated to some extent by the demands of the default players. I think Minanda starts out at around 540, so the value needs to be higher than this, but not by much...

...transfers/exchanges/resignings ~ what would be reasonable? One in Neg. rounds 1-4, one in the rounds 5-8, and two summer signings?

...nationality distribution ~ do we go for regional bias (simulating some predominantly French D2 sides, or some South American D2 equivalent), or do we go for the less-sim, greater challenge of regional limitation.

Personally, I think we'd be well served just to have rules based on the first 5 points... if only for simplicity... at least for a season or two. However, please feel free to post any further ideas in addition to proposing numbers for the first 5 points :)
 
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