My (Rather Obsessive) Quest

[techboy11]

Okay guys, posted on here before, played PES 2011 to death, and for some part, I think it's one of the most addictive games I've ever played. This year above all years, I find myself constantly tweaking everything to try and find the best footy game though, and am still in search of it. I bought PES, and without the option files, the game plays very, very well. But it's a bit bland without the correct kits and stuff. So it was option file time. After months of installing, uninstalling, changing this, changing that (all to eradicate the unresponsive games which seem to plague PES), I finally come to the conclusion that whatever it is, certain stadiums, certain time of day, whether you're home or away etc that sometimes the game plays like a pile of shit when it wants to. Also, I have increasingly, increasingly frustrated by the strength of the through ball, both for and against me. And another point is the momentum/scripting whatever you like to call it, it has become just too obvious to now ignore.

Don't get me wrong, I have a serious love-hate thing going on with PES. At it's best, with Liverpool against say Blackpool, in a day game, PES can't be beaten, I love the grass, the players, the lighting, and mostly the gameplay....until it decides to rape you in the most obvious fashion. The background of this by the way is me also trying to configure FIFA 11, by changing tactics etc etc, to try and find the perfect game.

This is what I've done -

1) Bought PES 2011
2) Bought FIFA 11
3) Played PES to death
4) Played FIFA in parts trying to replicate the beautiful game and not ice-hockey street fighter
5) Enjoyed and hated PES 2011 in equal measure. The highs of PES just can't be beaten
6) Had a massive nostalgia moment and thought fk this, I'm going to find PES 5/6 for my Playstation 2
7) Realised previously gave away my Playstation 2, and so not happy with that bought PES 2010, bought PES 2009, bought PES 2008, bought FIFA 10,
brings me up to yesterday
Thought what about the XBox platform (all games previously on PS3), bought component cable for daughters Xbox, bought PES 6.

Now in the meantime as said, I have edited, tweaked, used patches, done everything. I love PES 2011 I really do, but the over-riding issues of the scripting have now made it unplayable (on Top Player) anyway. I've kind of discovered that the CPU plays like a mong for the most part, and then every so oftern will string together a move a Barce-esque quality, finding that impossible through ball which goes through two players, for the striker to finish hitting the ball 'through the keepers' head, all this after a red arrowed Forlan misses four guilt edged chances. Losing I don't mind, but when you can now predict with unerring accuracy when the CPU is likely to score, there's something wrong.

SO...in my quest to find the best PES game at my disposal, and keep in mind I have no PS2, I played the XBOX version of PES 6, and I must say I'm loving it.

To come from PES 2011 to PES 6(Xbox), I can see why so many of you say that games now are for noobs....PES 6(Xbox) is fking hard! Even on Regular mode, I'm struggling to win games, only a few times have I had more possession that say 54%, and the CPU is ruthless in it's use of pressure - not FIFA like pressure smashing opponents out of the way like Wayne Gretsky (sp), by their appreciation of cutting down space, makes engineering a move into the their half a skill in itself.

So a few points -

1) IS ANYBODY as obsessive as me about finding the holy grail of footy games?
2) What are people's thoughts on PES 6 (XBox), the reviews are mixed over the years a lot of people even hate the game, I appreciate that the editing facility is shit etc etc, but in terms of gameplay I'm finding it rewarding?
3) Has anybody else reached that peak of enjoying PES, loving PES, but ultimately knowing it's flaws (eg scripted AI, overpowered through balls etc) just too much to overcome?

I may get to the point where I start hating PES 6(xbox), my only other throw of the dice then would be to purchase a PS2 and hope that PES5/6 were as good as I think they were back in the day!!

Just some thoughts!

 

[muscularmatt]

1) Yes. I'm one of the most obsessive people you are likely to meet.
2) Dunno. Haven't played it on the filthy Bill Gates' sexual gratification box.
3) No, You've just got to accept the fact that it isn't perfect, and immerse yourself in it as much as you can.

PES 6 on PC (and PS2) was always my favourite, but I really think 2011 on PS3 is a genuine contender to it's crown. Let you know again in another year or two.

 

[Hunter]

Great post techboy.

I know exactly what you mean. I played PES 2011 to death up until about Christmas and it slowly became more predictable and mundane. I am very much like you, and thousands on here who feel that with the game being so predictable, it does become tedious and boring. I no longer play 2011, although I did dip back onto it for the first time in many months just two days ago to play a ML match - which I won 2-1 on Top Player - with the default team, bar 3 or 4 real youngsters I brought in with average ratings. It just shows that the difficulty is non-existent anymore when I can take many months break, come back and still win with the bog-standard poor default ML team.

As for your quest, it'd be too expensive really trying to replicate it, but as far as what's easily available today, PES6 on the Xbox 360 is undoubtedly the best recent football game. It was damn near flawless online, and despite an average at best single player from what I can remember, it didn't matter, as online was so smooth and competitive. Me and my friend used to play one another online, and tallied up over 300 matches.

So for the quest, I'd start with PES6 on the Xbox 360 - online specifically.

Otherwise, maybe Winning Eleven 8 Liveware Edition with patch, on the PS2.

 

[JNyce1985]

You guys are being retarded, its a game, over a period if you play as much as you guys say you do its obvious you will either master all the cheap angles to win a game. Games are ment to be won, you folks complain when the computer beats you, you complain when you beat the computer, its almost like you are never satisfied. Play the game for what it is and shut up about how its getting boring. Its just like any other game once you keep playing and playing it will fade that is why they release new games every year. There is not one game on this earth that the outcome changes everytime you touch the controller. So stop your moaning and play it or leave it. At the end of the day it is the closet you guys will get to a realistic soccer game even though it does not have every team in the world or all the real jerseys, boots etc. I for one I like the challenge to take my xbox camera create all the epl kits and other team kits, it keeps your mind sharp and gives you something to do, Konami at least releases a roster update, when PES first came out we never had a roster update so I wonder what you guys did back then? Yes PES has its issues....

1. I would love for them to get all team kits stadiums and teams but they cant do it due to license issue so you cant blame them. Perhaps they should release a patch that will allow us to download templates for jerseys that all the teams wear so we can create jerseys easier. Such as installing nike, addidas logos, and all the team sponsors. They should let us download all that and all we have to do is just put them on the kits.

2. I think they need to show more emotion if they talk about ML mode fan base, for example I want to see where if a team is getting blown out their fans leave, or if a game is not important because you have beaten a team badly in one leg theres not a lot of fans. Or if your team is horrible your fans dont show up as much, there needs to be a variation in that. Further more ML needs to incorpate where perhaps we can set our merchandising prices.

3. Like 2K games especially when 2K had a football game (American Football) they would show highlights of important games at half time, this is something I would like to see in PES.

4. I would like for PES to have an option where each player has 3 options of boats they wear so each game or every other game they are wearing a different boat and not always the same. Same goes for the accessories.

5. My biggest thing is for PES to put every player in the game especially on their national team so even if we want to create the German League or whatever we have all their players that play in the league so after we create the teams we find the players and put them on their respective teams.

6. Like NBA 2K11 where each week the roster downloads itself and if Lebron has a bad game the next week in the game his stats goes down those same actions should be implemented in PES especially in Master League, so if your star player is injured your team can still win but it becomes that much harder. Perhaps that will help game play change a little bit better for those who claim they have mastered PES.

So rather than complaining about how bad you beat the AI which is expected when you play games especially after mastering it put up realistic situations that will help the game. POINT BLANK games are meant to be beaten and no matter what you idiots say there wont ever be a game that changes game play each time you play no matter how many years you have not played.

 

[IronCity]

I love how JYNCE1985 calls everyone idiots and retards for complaining then follows with a bullet point list of complaints shrouded as desires.

back to the original post question- I have only played WE9 on PS2 and PES 2011 PS3 so am still happy at this point. I am a poor player so not as mundaned as most others. Looking back I probably have spent more time installing option files and registering chants than I have actually playing the game. Seems like I can never stop messing around and get to business. I don't know WE6 but felt WE9 was fantastic. But I find it hard going back to WE9 on PS2 - the player movement too constrained in X -Y directions - this was my complaint even before 2011. I would think WE6 also suffers from this. I do miss a greater frequency of 1-0 games over 4-3s. I gave my WE9 away to a friend to cast the virus on him hoping he would buy 2011 to have someone to play matches against. This backfired because the cheap bastid decided he doesn't even want to play 2011 on my machine because it would ruin his WE9 experience. In short, I just can't seem to go backwards in years - I have a stack of Maddens that don't get touched after the new one comes out. I get too locked up in visuals, control, and current rosters. Even the best editions of series become like fine wine - but unfortunately where the bottle had been emptied so you can't go back to drink again.

I do need to try online; I 've found playing a real person set off light bulbs for me in WE9 that I wouldn't mind happening in 2011.

 

[techboy11]

Have to say, really enjoying PES6(Xbox) now, starting to get to grips with it at last after many hours. The one thing that absolutely glows is that it's not easy just to get 'up the field', I hate to say this but it's also becoming obvious that PES 2011 may be just too easy, in terms of build up play etc. The one thing that's pissing me off is there is no editing facility for the teams, apart from that I can live with pretty much anything else. I think you have to play this game on wide cam to be more creative with space and player runs. I thought at first that the player runs were crap, non existent, but they are much more subtle I believe, little things like instead of it being obvious that forwards will move for you, instead they play right on the shoulder of the last man, and it's just case of timing as to when to play that killer ball. And am really liking the game scores, playing 15 minute games the games are generally playing at 0-0, 1-0, 1-1, I can actually keep a clean sheet with full concentration which is a buzz in itself. ALL THIS ON REGULAR mode, so have a lot to learn.

A sub point and it's already been raised here loads of times, and I already know the answer (games getting easier, more target for kids), is that why when KONAMI had this type of gameplay, do KONAMI automate everything, and make the game easier generally, evened out by this scripting shit? For me, if I put everything else aside, this PES6(Xbox), plays as I expect a game to play, with pressure not coming from rampaging into people, but the AI appreciation of cutting down space as a pressure tool. Playing this, and if I then went back to PES2011, PES2011 would probably seem like a pinball, constant counter v counter game.

TO JNyce1985 - I don't think it's moaning for moaning's sake, I love coming on these forums even if I don't post a lot, this community over and above by a mile cares about the product/KONAMI/and above all PES, far more than FIFA's communities, it's our game of choice, we like being the underdog to mass marketing, there's something more pure about PES warts and all that FIFA may never capture....to this end I believe, in the 21st century and by now on next gen, KONAMI should have nailed how a game is supposed to unfold without the need for scripting and shit tools like that. Or at least not so obvious scripting, it is plain to see, plain as day, even if many people don't like PES6(Xbox) for example, that 2011 is a bug ridden fest even compared to PES6(Xbox) and when was that released, like 6 years ago!! My defenders never wander from position, my DMF stays as a DMF, through balls don't go through my players faces/legs you name it, the CPU keepers are fucking awesome, in PES 2011 I had about an 80% chance of scoring from a through ball, I'll be lucky if I beat the keeper on a one on one a third of the time on PES6(Xbox). Every game plays the game in terms of no slow down (which could be a graphical problem I'll admit), the animations seem better, or at least more realistic. And the CPU PLAYS A REALLY INTELLIGENT GAME, I dread to think what Top Player holds for me.

So no JNyce1985, it's not moaning or bitching, the sad fact is football games seem to be way behind where they should be on the development curve, are the developers doing this on purpose, didn't they like the game played previously, is it all just an accessibility thing, making the game easier and yet more automated/scripted. PES6(Xbox) has really given me a full appreciation too of cutting down space myself. I really am quite surprised that the game received so many very poor reviews, maybe because of things like the editing etc. Same with FIFA, it's quite mind blowing how they went from say FIFA 08-09-10 developing quite nicely (allbeit with a couple of noob glitches to score) to release this lump of turd, where all you have to do is mash two buttons with little or no effect on stamina lol, it's just amazing.

Are we the gamers becoming too obsessed with the prettier side of football? You look at sides like Barce and Arsenal, every gamer tries to emulate these teams, when in reality only Barce and Arsenal in the world can play like Barce and Arsenal, and even Arsenal are a poor man's Barce. So are we creating games based on the premise that 'little Johnny' wants to buy a football game because he wants to string fifty pin ball passes together to score a perfect Barce goal. Football should be hard if you play with any other team, Man Utd don't play a thousand pass football, nobody does. How many times does the left and right backs play long balls to the forwards to get a move going, nobody plays it from the back all the time because it's just too tough IRL, defenses are so good these days (in terms of organisation at least) that it's SPACE they cut down not necessarily looking for the tackle, I think the universal stat is, if you don't score in five passes or less, you inevitably don't score. Most goals are scored either from free kicks, corners, or a loss of possession or defensive mistake. The only time a team strings together more than say ten passes is if they play it around in defence to find space in midfield etc. So we have a situation where the entire gaming industry is making games for the user to be able to play Barce-esque football. So why not release two games with two engines, have a PES 2012 for those that want to play pretty football etc, and another hardcore game that relies on the creation of space and rewards that thinking outside of the box creation. FIFA's answer to making the game harder is to have pressure switched to universal soldier mode, where the CPU is like a rampaging half zombie, the defence never, never leaves it's positions, and the CPU shooting is like laser guided homing missiles where Cameron Jerome is scorching in 40 yarders. PES's answer to making the game harder is to have these crazy one minute periods through the game where anything can happen, literally bending the rules of physics and defying probability with silly scripting for and against you. At first PES 2011 dazzles, because you think oh my god that's so random it's just like football, when in fact you become trained in when goals will be scored, and you accept that the CPU can create a chance in Matrix like circumstances.

Sorry for the rant/moan whatever you like to call it, if we have come to the end of the football development curve then I can accept PES 2011 with open arms, like I said I've loved it in the most part, but when comparing it to the older PES games, it's just not football as we see on the TV. It's some fun, arcade end to end chance fest. I've never played with Real or Barce etc on PES, but if I'm pretty good with Liverpool and if Kuyt is netting me 25 goals a season on Top Player, then something is amiss.

1) Engine tweaked or changed to make the AI more aware of cutting down your space, forcing you into more direct play on times, or you lose possession - simples
2) Have this type of play on say professional or top player, the other modes should be used for attacking end to end type games that so many get enjoyment from.
3) Like in PES6(Xbox), when a player is clean through, he's clean through, no making the defender super human, BUT make through balls like the old PES make them difficult and make cutting through defenses hard.
4) End scripting completely, if it's impossible to do completely, then have the scripting like PES6(Xbox) where it is completely unnoticeable.

With the mess of FIFA 11, it's time for KONAMI to bring it back home once again, watch hours of football, analyse when and where people pressure the player the space etc, make it a tactical affair, where goals are so so precious. You play stupid 5 or 6 up front you get royally shafted on the counter, you choose to play deep conserving a lead, you can do provided you defend properly knowing that the CPU can't play that WONDER ball from Robbie Savage that makes Messi look like Lily Savage.

If you had the patience to read that then good luck to you lol!!

Ta

PS - And sort the fking nets out, square with tension, and the general crowd atmosphere is shit compared to the old games, simple things which just infuriate!

 

[Sminky]

You guys are being retarded, its a game, over a period if you play as much as you guys say you do its obvious you will either master all the cheap angles to win a game. Games are ment to be won, you folks complain when the computer beats you, you complain when you beat the computer, its almost like you are never satisfied. Play the game for what it is and shut up about how its getting boring. Its just like any other game once you keep playing and playing it will fade that is why they release new games every year. There is not one game on this earth that the outcome changes everytime you touch the controller. So stop your moaning and play it or leave it. At the end of the day it is the closet you guys will get to a realistic soccer game even though it does not have every team in the world or all the real jerseys, boots etc.

So rather than complaining about how bad you beat the AI which is expected when you play games especially after mastering it put up realistic situations that will help the game. POINT BLANK games are meant to be beaten and no matter what you idiots say there wont ever be a game that changes game play each time you play no matter how many years you have not played.

You are entitled to your opinion as much as the next poster on this site but aggressively reinforcing your point by belittling others does not validate your point.

Have to say, really enjoying PES6(Xbox) now, starting to get to grips with it at last after many hours. The one thing that absolutely glows is that it's not easy just to get 'up the field', I hate to say this but it's also becoming obvious that PES 2011 may be just too easy, in terms of build up play etc. The one thing that's pissing me off is there is no editing facility for the teams, apart from that I can live with pretty much anything else. I think you have to play this game on wide cam to be more creative with space and player runs. I thought at first that the player runs were crap, non existent, but they are much more subtle I believe, little things like instead of it being obvious that forwards will move for you, instead they play right on the shoulder of the last man, and it's just case of timing as to when to play that killer ball. And am really liking the game scores, playing 15 minute games the games are generally playing at 0-0, 1-0, 1-1, I can actually keep a clean sheet with full concentration which is a buzz in itself. ALL THIS ON REGULAR mode, so have a lot to learn.

I always recommend players play online before hitting high AI, you'll learn to play faster, a more considered approach yet still unpredictable to your opponent.

 

[IronCity]

Have to say, really enjoying PES6(Xbox) now, starting to get to grips with it at last after many hours....... PS - And sort the fking nets out, square with tension, and the general crowd atmosphere is shit compared to the old games, simple things which just infuriate!

stop it, just everyone stop it...you are making me wish I never got rid of my WE9 - best $5.95 I ever spent.

 

[Forza_Milan]

I, too, have been playing WE9 for PC...i have a habit of keeping my games long after I get done playing with them, in this case, I am glad I did...

So going from PeS 11 to WE9 is such a good experience, WE9 plays much better, no stupid AI controlled players doing stupid moves away from the ball...less scripted...won my first game in top difficulty yesterday...PES 11 is still a love have relationship though

 

[IronCity]

I said stop it. Forza_Milan just made me check out gamestop online for any used copies in my area. It may just be the second best $5.95 I will have spent.

I came back to edit this post a few hours later - just played a handful of matches on 2011 and it brought me back to my senses. I have a long way to go on that version to keep me happy for a long time. This entire thread reminded me that I never used through pass on we9 but seem to overuse it on 2011. In any event, I am still bedazzled with kits, players, and movement to ever go back.

 

[JNyce1985]

yes u all make valid points and I accept all of them, now days games are just made to glitch it seems like...I dont pay much attention to through balls except I notice if you play a formation containing only 3 backs they will play those balls all day it seems.. especially when u play againts chelsea...I think sometimes the AI tries to play smart and counter...all I know is I love this years PES despite its negatives, it beats Fifa and anything created by EA Sports...Lets keep these forums interactive so we can get better game play each time they release a PES....

 

[Forza_Milan]

Well if they make them perfect, what else can they do to make us buy them again next year, you know? That's what sucks...the business model they have chosen to pursue..it's not just videogames nowdays, we're a consuming culture, they need us to buy the same thing every year. So why make the game perfect, and have nothing to work on for the next year?

 

[Glejs]

Ahh I played PES 6 online almost constantly between 2006-2010.. Talk about value for money. Best footy game so far! I didn't even touch Master League or any other game modes. Just online, online & online. Every match felt fresh and new. Amazing.

But PES 2011 is very good too so I'm NOT going to return.. I think I'm gonna be hooked on Master League as soon as I'm done with all my editing (ultra obsessive perfectionist)..

 

[Glejs]

Ahh I played PES 6 online almost constantly between 2006-2010.. Talk about value for money. Best footy game so far! I didn't even touch Master League or any other game modes. Just online, online & online. Every match felt fresh and new. Amazing.

But PES 2011 is very good too so I'm NOT going to return.. I think I'm gonna be hooked on Master League as soon as I'm done with all my editing (ultra obsessive perfectionist)..