PES 2009, all about PACE again??

[Amateur]

After much criticism on PES 2008 and after a long time of silence, Konami has finally released a few words on PES 2009:

"The new game has undergone a stunning graphical update to ensure its players look and move even more like their real-life counterparts"

"Similarly, all-new options allow users to tailor the game to their own tastes, while new moves, innovative new control elements and key online elements will further the realism of the new game"


Now, apart from sounding just like the usual -positive- hype that surrounds both PES and FIFA. This also confirms what Seabass had already said:

Seabass - "Well I can already promise you that next year’s version of PES will have a lot more new features as you would expect because we’re already working on these new things right now."

".. actually all the new modes which we are going to put in the game for next season are already finished."


New modes and improved graphics are some of the expectations set for PES 2009. But in all honesty, new game modes and improved graphics wasn't what defined games such as PES 6. What about the gameplay of PES 2009? The gameplay that established PES as The best Football game in the first place. Well, "innovative new control elements" and "new moves" and "players that move even more like their real-life counterparts" and all that--SHOULD definitely make noticeable changes to the gameplay.


But, unfortunately the comments that Jon Murphy -PES Project Leader for Konami Digital Entertainment GmbH- stated are definitely NOT what I wanted to hear:

Jon Murphy - "The announcement of a new PES game is always a highlight for Konami, but PES 2009 looks set to reaffirm the series’ utter superiority,”

“We are committed to extending the realism of the new game with a wealth of key gameplay additions, and will produce a football title that truly embodies all the skill and pace that is good about the modern game."


I'd hate to say it, but "the skill and pace about the modern game" reminds me of PES 2008. Is PES 2009 going to be another Football game where PACE and POWER are ridiculously OVERRATED? Judging by the comments, it seems to be the case as the so-called "modern game" RELIES hugely on PACE and POWER (and sometimes on SKILL).

And then again, Modern Football?? Who plays the so-called Modern Game? As far as I know, the only teams that can afford to play the modern game effectively are only the BIG CLUBS that can afford those players. However many average clubs do not play the modern game. And then again, what about the Big Clubs that do NOT play Modern Football, clubs such as AC Milan, Roma, Boca Juniors, etc, etc..

THIS is one of the major flaws of PES 2008, it feels and plays in the same exact way regardless of the League, all the teams play Direct-Football (Modern Football) and MOST games are decided on Pace and Power alone. Examples? Italian Football (Serie A) is about Tactical Football –something- that doesn’t relies on PACE. But for an obvious reason, the Italian Serie A in PES 2008 felt more like the English England League.. the same thing goes for the Spanish La Liga. Producing a game whose priority is to embody “all the skill and pace that is good about the modern game” would probably make all the Leagues feel and play like the EPL.

PES 2008 hugely OVERRATED PACE and POWER -while- it completely OVERLOOKED the MOST important aspects of the game; Tactical and Technical Skills.

In my opinion, any Football game that treats the Modern Game as a priority is bound to fail -because- the beautiful game exists long before the so-called modern game, and it will always have many faces. Football should be simulated in its entirety, not just as a game that "embodies all the skill and pace that is good about the MODERN GAME".

That said, I do hope the gameplay of the game proves me (and the poor comments by Jon Murphy) wrong. And I can only hope that the "key gameplay additions" includes a New Gen system of 'Stats and Special Abilities', and also new Skills (or Stats, whatever you want to call them) to establish some of the fundamental aspects of the game that are currently missing.


What do you guys make of the latest news on PES 2009?? Is it another disappointment? Or is PES 2009 going to reaffirm the series?

 

[muzza798]

i think your reading into the gameplay a bit too much. when he sais about making the players move more realistically to blend with the real game that can only mean that its going to become slower becuase as he said they've changed it. so its either going to be quicker or its going to be slower and going on what last years was like (redicuosly fast) then he can only of meant that its going to be slower and a more tactical game like actually trying to break down defences not just running at them screaming for freedom.

I am bursting with exitment and it is like being shot to get all this info and them not say anything about the 1 thing that matter which is gameplay but i guess their just making me want more which i tip my cap to them and say "fair play to you sir"

 

[Amateur]

i think your reading into the gameplay a bit too much. when he sais about making the players move more realistically to blend with the real game that can only mean that its going to become slower becuase as he said they've changed it. so its either going to be quicker or its going to be slower and going on what last years was like (redicuosly fast) then he can only of meant that its going to be slower and a more tactical game like actually trying to break down defences not just running at them screaming for freedom.

I am bursting with exitment and it is like being shot to get all this info and them not say anything about the 1 thing that matter which is gameplay but i guess their just making me want more which i tip my cap to them and say "fair play to you sir"

Yeah, I always get ahead of myself when I start with the "gameplay issues". But anyways, I think that if Konami manages to produce the same exact gameplay of PES 6 -with- the graphics of PES 2008, THAT would be an accomplishment to my eyes.

In fact, I still think PES 6 is the best Football game around.. it's a shame that it haves such crappy graphics. I mean, the fact that really frustrates me about PES 6, as enjoyable as it was, is that it could've been much better with some slight additions and improvements.

I'm still wondering why PES 2008 was so bad.. all Konami had to do to satisfy their fans was to add Next Gen Graphics to their already good gameplay. I wouldn't bet on it, but Let's see if PES 2009 can turn things around.

 

[Italianguy141]

We shall see. A huge graphical update is one of the things I wanted to see, plus slowing the game down was my number one. And stopping the damn cpu from playing constant pressure on you even when you are deep in your own end, cpu players are running full steam at you.

Need it to be a little open in your own end as in real life players will not chase the ball around in the other teams zone when they have control of it, something that is missing on the higher levels of PES 2008.

And this new movement thing sounds great. Getting tired of looking at robots running on the field, some new fluid animations that are life like is a great treat.

I don't care what Konami has to do. Delay it for a couple months and release it later if they have to. I don't want them pressured by a schedule to get it out the door and us consumers who are expecting a quality product and our voices to be heard to be let down a 2nd time.

Konami, take the time....fix the gameplay, update the graphics. Make sure it is all good to go before that game is released or you will have a lot of upset people who will run to FIFA.

Maybe Konami realizes that EA is making a strive to push FIFA foward and the light came on to actually do something this time around to make it's hard core gamers stick around.

If they fail to live up to expectations to what was once known as the best sports simulation game out there, I will go to FIFA as I will not wait for another year to pass by because they have failed. But I have hope for them that they will pull through and give us what we want.

 

[Amateur]

We shall see. A huge graphical update is one of the things I wanted to see, plus slowing the game down was my number one. And stopping the damn cpu from playing constant pressure on you even when you are deep in your own end, cpu players are running full steam at you.

Need it to be a little open in your own end as in real life players will not chase the ball around in the other teams zone when they have control of it, something that is missing on the higher levels of PES 2008.

And this new movement thing sounds great. Getting tired of looking at robots running on the field, some new fluid animations that are life like is a great treat.

I don't care what Konami has to do. Delay it for a couple months and release it later if they have to. I don't want them pressured by a schedule to get it out the door and us consumers who are expecting a quality product and our voices to be heard to be let down a 2nd time.

Konami, take the time....fix the gameplay, update the graphics. Make sure it is all good to go before that game is released or you will have a lot of upset people who will run to FIFA.

Maybe Konami realizes that EA is making a strive to push FIFA foward and the light came on to actually do something this time around to make it's hard core gamers stick around.

If they fail to live up to expectations to what was once known as the best sports simulation game out there, I will go to FIFA as I will not wait for another year to pass by because they have failed. But I have hope for them that they will pull through and give us what we want.

Yeah, all the things you said are true.. the midfielders are not able to hold on to the ball without having to sprint through the pitch -something- that makes slow players rather useless, just try using Riquelme in PES 2008. Players don't have the ability of shielding the ball effectively, not even Riquelme whom is renowned for NOT losing the ball.

And apart from the players incompetence at holding on to the ball, the PACE is hugely OVERRATED. I mean, PACE determines everything in this game (PES 2008), defending, attacking, dribbling, scoring goals, everything. Don't try to dribble your way through the pitch with a slow player because it won't work. If a player haves a Dribbling Skill of 60 and Pace of 90, that player will more than likely run circles around defenders. The list of flaws is endless.

And the worst aspect of PES 2008 is undoubtedly the Defensive Play, simply laughable. Defending in PES 2008 leaves you in the position of a spectator; you can see what the opponent is going to do, you can easily predict it, can easily anticipate it -but- all you can really do as a Defender is watch and see what the opponent is going to do next. And again, SLOW Defenders -just as slow Midfielders- are worthless in this game. Defenders aren't properly equipped to deal with Attackers, as simple as that.

So yeah, PES 2009 haves a huge mountain to climb because most Football Fans are now skeptic about PES. There's no doubt that Konami can produce a great Football game, the question is when.. and I don't think one year was enough to turn things around. I agree with you, Konami should release PES 2009 when it is ready to go. If they need more time, then they should delay it for a couple of months.. or if it is already good and ready for release, then by all means they should release it as quickly as possible because PES 2008 sucks.

 

[muzza798]

To make this game great i want 2 things.

1.Memorial match data. why take it away? it was hardly taking up disk space and made me play my master league on pes 6 more so i could compete with my m8s ML team. Gave us something to do on a winters day. me and my m8 still go on about it and we stoped playing it a year ago.

2.I will comit suicide if there is no pes shop. there has to be a shop full stop! no ucking way Konami am i winning every competition with every single national team to get classic players. it makes no sence! The main reason other than point 1 for me hating pes 2008 was that my ML team was bollocks because i couldnt buy any of the legends.

instead of me having a team full of 99s like on pes 6, on pes 2008 i had the privilage of having a team of ucking hasbins. i for some reason couldnt even get ronaldo to bloody develop beyond low 90s and he was my best player. there was barely 1 player on that game that could actually have 95+s running down the page and i never saw him!

I play ML becuase of the negotiation window mainly and i only liked the window because of the masses of top quality players out there. without a shop there is none. cant you atleast come up with a beter way of getting them? like unlocking them in the ML maybe?

for example on pes 2008 i had to win the euros with bulgaria just so i could unlock 1 legend. wat a massive waste of an afternoon that was. what konami? you want me to do that with every national team on the game to unlock them all? how about i catch a plane to japan and personally smash your computers in with a baseball bat. maybe then u'll listen to the fans.

And these new modes they go on about will be good for about 5 minutes and then once youve done them thats it. i mean their gonna use all that disc space for senario match where once ive done it (if i bother to try atall) ill never see it again. ok it might be fun with m8s but you could of pumped all that energy into the online mode or ML where it would count.

PES is one of those games that you play with m8s and with it lacking point 1 and 2 it took so much out of wanting to do the ML. i'd sit there and i'd sign players specifically to play my friend with. the ML matches in between the transfer zone was just a hassle.

on another point from the stadiums ive seen there is only 1 so far that has a pitch close to the stand. it realy bothers me that when im playing i cant even see the fans outside of cutscenes.

Also they need to change the look of the ML league options. not only the way its laid out but what you can do. People say add newspaper reports etc and at first i was all for it untill i actully thought about it and after 2 weeks it would become extreemly annoying. after a couple of months the matches become meaningless so i cant even imagine how crap the interviews would get.

they should add a youth acadamy in or some finacial involvement to earn some extra points/CASH.

maybe ive gone over 2 points but omg defending. defending on pes 2008 was horrible, some may go as far as saying it didnt even exist. basically unless your oppenent runs into you with the ball you aint getting it cleanly. i mean why bother holding onto A button because the guy will just fall over the second you get it and that'l be it. a few times ive actually got the ball ran away and the guy as literally ran into the back of me and IVE! , given the the foul away. let me defend! if they could just come up with a better way to win the ball back then it would be balenced.

like they say, this will be the first real next gen pro evo where they've had everything in-place and i see it beeing good. but i see 2010 beeing the biggest pes ever. this, i see cuddling up with pes 4 maybe as good as pes 6. bt my points 1 and 2 will help casual gamers such as myself enjoy it as i play with my m8s.

 

[retrofooze]

Yeah, all the things you said are true.. the midfielders are not able to hold on to the ball without having to sprint through the pitch -something- that makes slow players rather useless, just try using Riquelme in PES 2008. Players don't have the ability of shielding the ball effectively, not even Riquelme whom is renowned for NOT losing the ball.

And apart from the players incompetence at holding on to the ball, the PACE is hugely OVERRATED. I mean, PACE determines everything in this game (PES 2008), defending, attacking, dribbling, scoring goals, everything. Don't try to dribble your way through the pitch with a slow player because it won't work. If a player haves a Dribbling Skill of 60 and Pace of 90, that player will more than likely run circles around defenders. The list of flaws is endless.

Have to disagree on some of these points. Its very easy holding onto the ball with players like Requelme, have you not discovered the R2 button when on the ball? Infact its the same with defending, if a very fast player is running at your defence, all you need is a bit of timing and R2 and it's easier to disposess them than a slower player.

I think if you test your 60/90 theory out you'll also discover that the player will dribble the ball too far from their reach and practically give the ball away. If anyone defends by holding down A/X then they deserve to be run past.

I don't know if you're just inexperienced at playing or something but please stop over exagerating so much.

 

[Amateur]

Have to disagree on some of these points. Its very easy holding onto the ball with players like Requelme, have you not discovered the R2 button when on the ball? Infact its the same with defending, if a very fast player is running at your defence, all you need is a bit of timing and R2 and it's easier to disposess them than a slower player.

I think if you test your 60/90 theory out you'll also discover that the player will dribble the ball too far from their reach and practically give the ball away. If anyone defends by holding down A/X then they deserve to be run past.

I don't know if you're just inexperienced at playing or something but please stop over exagerating so much.

First of all, I'm not inexperienced, and I would easily beat you at either PES5 or PES6.

And secondly, I do NOT need experience to know that PES08 is a mediocre Football game. If you do like PES08, then that's your opinion, and you're entitled to it.. But you SHOULD know that the Defensive Play of PES08 is simply ridiculous, you shouldn't have to run that much in order to Defend decently (let alone effectively), there's not that much running in real-life defending.

For a fact, have you ever seen Rio Ferdinand running like an idiot from side to side, or Paolo Maldini leaving huge open spaces because of the ridiculous running... Have you ever seen a World Class defender making the same unacceptable mistakes time and time again?? Defending is about positioning, about reading the attacking play -not- about mindless and excessive running.

Most of the Defenders that run excessively do it to compensate for their lack of Defensive Awareness, and many times those "excessive runs" leave huge gaps. In my opinion, the Defensive Play in PES08 is spot-on if we are talking about mediocre defending. But that is NOT what I expect from World Class Defenders such as Cannavaro, Ferdinand, Ayala, Maldini, Nesta, Carvalho, Terry, etc, etc..

By the way, I exaggerated because I wanted to make a point, what's so bad about that??

 

[Kevthedrummer]

pace seems to be the main issue on PES 08, it's always at a constant speed, there's no variation.

If by working on the "pace" they have made it possible to control the pace of the game (not constantly fast), then we are potentially onto a winner.

 

[PacMan]

I'm the first guy to criticise PES 2008, but don't you think it's a little early to start hammering 2009? The press conference said NOTHING, really. No concrete things at all. They didn't say it's faster or it's slower, only that the "pace" will resemble the real thing. It can easily be interpreted either way...

 

[Amateur]

I'm the first guy to criticise PES 2008, but don't you think it's a little early to start hammering 2009? The press conference said NOTHING, really. No concrete things at all. They didn't say it's faster or it's slower, only that the "pace" will resemble the real thing. It can easily be interpreted either way...

You now, is just that "a game that resembles all the PACE and SKILL that is important about the MODERN GAME" reminds me of PES08. I'm probably exaggerating over the poorly picked words of Jon Murphy (PES Project Leader for Konami Digital Entertainment GmbH)... And yes, it could be interpreted either way, wich is why I leaned more towards what I have already seen in PES08.

But anyways, it seems odd to me that Konami isn't boasting as much as they did before, it gives the impression that Konami still hasn't achieved what they really want. And don't get me wrong, I'm certain that Konami can produce a proper Football game, the question is when?? Will it be PES09 or by 2010.. I guess only time will tell.

 

[PacMan]

I know what you mean, but there's just not one drop of information in that PR. Only hints of something ambiguous. However, I believe the writing is on the wall.

If we agree on PES 2009 not being a revolution but just a sorted-out PES 2008 (which it'll surely be), then there's not so much about the gameplay that needed fixing, considering they'll have over a year to work. Yes, 2008's CRAP, but gameplay itself wasn't broken, it was just a question of balancing out a number of factors. I have no hopes that this game will be awesome, mind-boggling or revolutionary, not by a long shot, but I do expect a good PES.

Of the things they had to balance, I think it all comes down to game speed and the effect certain stats have ingame. That's enough to have a good PES. On top of that, they should fix some animations (running comes to mind), and, of course, improve the graphics, even if slightly. Nothing KONAMI has not been doing on each release of PES since the series was born.

I suspect PES 2010 should be the big leap forward, while PES 2009 will be some sort of an update -hopefully, a PES worth of its name- so we don't have to play PES 6 for a third year in a row...

Nothing to boast about really.

 

[Amateur]

pace seems to be the main issue on PES 08, it's always at a constant speed, there's no variation.

If by working on the "pace" they have made it possible to control the pace of the game (not constantly fast), then we are potentially onto a winner.

That's exactly what I mean, the same PACE all the time -regardless- of the League, or Team, or Players, or Situations.. it becomes extremely boring.

But I suppose that Seabass has already sorted out the "Pace Issue", becasue as he already said;

Seabass - "With the release of the PS3 we now have all the basics of the next gen at a starting stage finally. Now I don’t have to worry about creating the basic parts of the next gen versions for next year, meaning I have already been able to start working on new features. Now I’m able to promise new things and a complete overhaul in every aspect."

Let's hope "The complete overhaul" includes a much improved gameplay.

 

[S-D-P]

That statement from konami really worries me as it sounds to me like that dont know how to change the game and they are already making excuses for why the game is to fast and arcadey. surely they realise that last years over fast patheticaly easy shambolic excuse for a football has to be changed. They also could be changing there values and may be creating a game that appeals to people who want to run with a player for 100 yards and score becuase they are incapable of playing a football game.

 

[Kevthedrummer]

pace doesn't mean fast or slow! It means the "rate of moving"... Don't worry about it.

 

[2-Face]

Wouldn't surprise me when Seabass talks in december about how he didn't had enough time and that he is a little bit disappointed about the game.

 

[Kiraldo]

You could write a novel with everything that Konami stuffed up with 2008. Though it is a good game, it does lack the subtley of PES5, and the slower pace of PES6.
Having players get tired after 2 games is also absolutely ridiculous. I mean, come on. Ronaldo has played 50 odd games (a guess) and doesnt look tired to me.

Seabass needs to pull his finger out. He's got sloppy, and he knows it. How can he not know when everyone is shouting from the rooftops 'It's too bloody fast'. Slow it down a bit, put some subtle touchs back into the game, and lets have some more dynamics. Not just run in a straight line, stop, run in a straight line, stop. Is it that too hard to implement? 360 movement? More speed/momentum physics applied to players running full tilt/players dribbling slow etc

 

[Sho]

They say these things everytime before release, only will be able to tell after playing the real game when its out.

 

[Amateur]

You could write a novel with everything that Konami stuffed up with 2008. Though it is a good game, it does lack the subtley of PES5, and the slower pace of PES6.
Having players get tired after 2 games is also absolutely ridiculous. I mean, come on. Ronaldo has played 50 odd games (a guess) and doesnt look tired to me.

Seabass needs to pull his finger out. He's got sloppy, and he knows it. How can he not know when everyone is shouting from the rooftops 'It's too bloody fast'. Slow it down a bit, put some subtle touchs back into the game, and lets have some more dynamics. Not just run in a straight line, stop, run in a straight line, stop. Is it that too hard to implement? 360 movement? More speed/momentum physics applied to players running full tilt/players dribbling slow etc

Completely agree.. This is what makes PES08 so boring and arcadish. You could pass PES08 for FIFA, it is THAT BAD.

The running in a straight line and stopping -just- so you can continue running in a straight line and stopping is plain BORING. It just feels like an RPG Football game, and it is what best describes EA Sport's FIFA.

We need the old movements back, we need the old GAMEPLAY back -and- we need New Player Attributes, because New Stats will establish the Fundamental Aspects of Football -that- Football Simulation games are currently missing.

By the way, are you guys familiar with the Strategies in PES6?? The Strategies that could be used by holding the L2 button and pressing each of the Main Buttons (Triangle, Square, Circle, and X). Well, I think it would be an awesome New Option if we could have Dribbling Moves with that same concept.

For example, by holding the L2 button and pressing the X button -the- player performs a dribbling move (or trick). Logically if we have 4 Main Buttons, we could have 4 Different Dribbling moves at our disposal -and- variations could be made, we could have at the very least 12 Different Dribbling moves at the touch (or Double Tap, or Triple Tap) of a button.

I think that with this concept, we could see some Dribbling Moves that until now have been impossible to pull off (or add) in a simulation game. And most importantly, performing Trademark Dribbling moves -at the touch of a button- will always be simpler and faster -wich- is what best describes dribbling in PES6.

By the way, I must add that with THAT same concept (or system, whatever you want to call it) it could be possible to establish further differences between players. For example, Zinedine Zidane could have a set of very complicated dribbling moves that require excellent technique. While on the other hand, a player with average Technique, let's say Frank Lampard would have a set of basic and easy to pull-off dribbling moves.

That is to say, that Zidane would do different things at the push of a button. To say that Zidane haves the ability of dribbling through 2 Defenders -while- Lampard haves to keep it simple.

But anyways, coming back to the subject.. Konami haves a mountain to climb after PES08, they need to get it right this time, maybe even introduce -for the 1st time in 4 years now- a noticeable improvement to the gameplay, and new player attributes. We'll see.. for now let's hope it's NOT all about the PACE AGAIN.

 

[MatTheCat]

PES 2009, all about pace again?

Only in the online game as the player in poessession is the 'host'. Combine this with the lag and you have a pacey attackers wet dream and a defenders nightmare.

Offline, the game is solid!