PES 2013 Demo 2: Feedback, Impressions, Discussions etc.

[menaceuk]

Still no PC demo 2 :realmad:

It amazes how Konami remain quiet and wish not to inform and quell the growing anguish that builds in the PC community:realmad:

 

[wheresmark]

You know what, now that i think about it ........i think you and the rest of followers are right...goddammit!:shocking:

Selling millions of anything doesn't make it better... just more popular.

I was blinded by the millions of idiots online each day just playing and playing the shitofagame Fifa.

It isn't better than PES...only hardcore fans play PES. Just because millions of people choose it over PES...PES is still better. Just because its more popular.. this doesn't mean its better... those idiots got me.

Wait.....:huh:
...as a matter of fact....if you think about it.... PES 5 and 6 were more popular in the footie community than Fifa back then ...but that didn't mean that it was better than Fifa then......Fifa was better than PES.

Fucrk you Seabass for making me believe that since the game was so popular .....it was good ....PES 5 and PES 6 was shit compared to fifa back then .....

:bravo:

.........WTF am i saying?

..are you really a sucker for anal sex :shocking:

So going by your logic you really think Xfactor artists make the best music?

Commercialism and an aggressive marketing strategy doesn't always indicate talent.

 

[menaceuk]

So going by your logic you really think Xfactor artists make the best music?

Commercialism and an aggressive marketing strategy doesn't always indicate talent.

You speak of logic and yet show none.

Where is the logic in continued response to one who seems unable to accept differing opinion. There is none.

But your point is true.......Massive selling artists like Britney and Bieber rarely make decent music let alone great music.

However their Popularity shows their music to be desired above those more deserving artists but yet this all comes down to opinion and preference and thus can't really be proven wrong either way.

 

[Amateur]

Your rants about the left analogue stick have returned! :lol:

I'm not gonna agree or disagree with you about it this time, the days of our heated arguments over said topic are long gone, simply because I don't care enough about PES anymore to want to defend it.

I played both the demos. Detested the first one. The second one was better in my opinion. I almost started to enjoy it at times, but then it keeps reminded me why I've grown to dislike the series. I basically feel like PES works on random "dice throws" and my skill at the game does not directly influence the players' actions.
Despite what some will inevitably say, it's still HEAVILY scripted.... I actually can't believe that some people don't notice it. It seems to be that (especially on Superstar difficulty) if you:

-Concede a harsh free kick outside your box
-Are not given a free kick that you blatantly should've been given
-Are "bamboozled" by a skill move by an AI player

... it will result in an AI goal.

To be fair, heated arguments are healthy, as long as personal insults and other childish tactics are not a part of it.

As for PES.... Probably, the best way to summarize my opinion, is by saying that I do think that, in many ways, PES6 on the PS2 was more sophisticated than PES13. It made more sense, it was a D-PAD game, simple as that.

PES13 is the expansion of that D-PAD system, but the more directions and gimmicks that are added to the D-PAD system, the more boring it becomes, in my opinion.

For example, with PES6 the forwards ran more intelligently, or if not more intelligent runs, then the forwards were certainly more lively with their off the ball movement. Now, with PES13, the forwards are so life-less, that it seems as though the game wants to force you into using the right analog stick off the ball gimmick all the fucking time....

How is that improvement? So now, because I can supposedly control the runs, it's supposed to be an improvement of some kind?

I would describe it as an improvement if it was intuitive and enjoyable, but directing the right analog stick + then pressing the right analog stick + directing the left analog stick for the duration of the whole procedure, is neither intuitive nor enjoyable, and unfortunately, if you don't do that, the forwards (for the most part) just stand there like idiots.

That's not actual progress, at least not as far as I'm concerned. The D-PAD was never meant to have more than eight directions. I think that the future of the football sim genre, is about accepting the fact that a lot of factors that are currently manual need to be almost entirely scripted, and the things that are currently scripted need to be entirely manual: this will be impossible for as long as the foundation of the game is based around the D-PAD and the many limitations that come with it.

The direction of off the ball movement when defending: needs to be less manual, more scripted, more like an RPG game. It's quite stupid to have manual control over off the ball movement when you can see the damn game from the perspective of a spectator.

The COM pressure button when defending: needs to be less manual, more scripted, more like an RPG game.

The R2 + short passing button defensive stance: should be automatically determined by the computer whenever the ball carrier gets close enough to any defender.

The standing tackle: needs to be as manual as possible, with direction and timing being crucial, and with the player individuality affecting the response times of different type of defenders.

At the end of the day, I think that the game needs to be simplified to a point where the computer will, for the most part, automatically determine how a midfield battle will play out, you won't need to determine the direction of the off the ball movement, in fact the direction of the off the ball movement will be out of your control, however, the computer will give you a 50/50 chance of winning that midfield battle.....

The controls for the standing tackle would be the R1, and the control for the sliding tackle would be the L1. The tactical controls which would be crucial in winning a midfield battle, would be the four buttons that are used for passing ans shooting the ball.

The tactical controls would work as an RPG game or as a Chess game. Press and release the short passing button, if you think Xavi will pass the ball quickly. Press and release the long pass button if you think Xavi will not pass the ball quickly, and will instead hold the ball. Press and release the shooting button, if you think that the ball carrier will attempt a pass to the striker (this particular feature would only work when pressed BEFORE the receiver of the pass has his first touch on the ball; if you press the button AFTER the receiver of the pass had his first touch on the ball, the feature will not work, meaning that if the opponent passes the ball to the striker, the striker will not be closed down by the defender; also, this particular feature will only work ONCE PER PLAY, meaning that using it in the wrong occasion, would guarantee that the striker will not be closed down by the defender).

The more accurate that you predict the movements of your opponents, the more closed down the midfield area will be, or in other words, the harder it will be for the opponent to break you down. The style of defending, whether aggressive pressing or staying down just waiting for a counter, would not be determined manually, but by tactical settings.

See, that's not about pressing the R1 button and running after the ball carrier, it's not about running around like a headless chicken after the ball, it forces you into thinking, and it would make it more difficult for the little noobs that do not know how to read the game: even if they wanted to score cheap goals by exploiting Cristiano Ronaldo, chances are that they would probably loose the midfield battle, and that, as a consequence, Ronaldo would barely touch the ball.

Using the very simple to use tactical controls, you decide who wins the midfield battle: no R1 sprint headless chicken runs necessary, no need to hold the COM pressure button, no need to hold the R2 button + the short passing button just to trigger a particular defensive animation. Simply use the tactical controls, and when you get close enough to the ball carrier, use the L1 or R1 tackling buttons.

That to me, sounds a lot more entertaining than, for example: manually determining the direction of the off the ball movement *when* I can see the game from the perspective of a spectator (therefore making it beyond obvious where I should move and when I should press the COM pressure button and when I should press the cursor change button, thus effectively killing off the beauty of the game), constantly pressing the cursor change button time and time again, constantly pressing the COM pressure button, constantly pressing the R2 button (whilst at the same time also pressing the COM pressing button, and also being at the ready for the next time that you need to press and release the cursor change button), and at the end of the day, when you finally get close to the ball carrier, you find that you cannot actually determine the direction of the actual standing tackle, which makes for an exceptionally boring defensive game, because it's absolutely shallow.

So many different buttons that you need to press all the time, and for what? The noobs who give the ball to Cristiano Ronaldo, who do the exact same thing time and time again, can you do anything to prevent them from doing the same exact thing over and over again? Well in real life, any team with such a blatantly repetitive pattern would effectively loose the midfield battle, which means that Cristiano Ronaldo would barely touch the ball....

Unfortunately, that's not the case with PES, all the different button combos that you need to pull off in order to do extremely simple (and obvious) things, and for what? Any noob who over-uses Cristiano Ronaldo can easily defeat a person who actually understands how football works. When it comes to the most crucial factor, the one vs one confrontation between the defender and the ball carrier, all you have is an automatic standing tackle or an automatic sliding tackle, a "throw of the dice" that is far more relevant than the countless button combos that preceded the one vs one confrontation. That's bullshit. Both Konami and EA need to simplify their game.

At the end of the day, in order to have more control over the game, many aspects that are currently manual will need to be completely scripted, and the aspects that are currently completely scripted will need to be fully manual, that's what I think we will see when the PS4 comes out. But it's a shame we haven't seen anything similar to that in this gen of consoles, because the PS3 can handle that.

 

[wheresmark]

You speak of logic and yet show none.

Where is the logic in continued response to one who seems unable to accept differing opinion. There is none.

But your point is true.......Massive selling artists like Britney and Bieber rarely make decent music let alone great music.

However their Popularity shows their music to be desired above those more deserving artists but yet this all comes down to opinion and preference and thus can't really be proven wrong either way.

I think I've only replied to said person twice or maybe thrice

It's certainly true, just because the masses are drawn to one thing it doesn't mean it is the best, there are many examples of this in music, film, television, sport, gaming. Most humans follow the ways of others in order to feel socially accepted and quell any insecurities they may have, this is then a snowball effect and popular things stay popular.

I'm also not saying Fifa is a worse game, I haven't played enough of it to make in informed decision.

Bring back Fifa 95 in HD and I will be a happy man. Atleast for 10 minutes anyway.

 

[menaceuk]

I think I've only replied to said person twice or maybe thrice

It's certainly true, just because the masses are drawn to one thing it doesn't mean it is the best, there are many examples of this in music, film, television, sport, gaming. Most humans follow the ways of others in order to feel socially accepted and quell any insecurities they may have, this is then a snowball effect and popular things stay popular.

I'm also not saying Fifa is a worse game, I haven't played enough of it to make in informed decision.

Bring back Fifa 95 in HD and I will be a happy man. Atleast for 10 minutes anyway.

Number of Replies irrelevant.

Fifa 95.....A game which got shat upon by PES. The Fifa games of today are far far better than those of old unlike PES which is the Opposite.

and As I said, I agree with you on the Sales don't = Quality, but quality is subjective.

 

[wheresmark]

Number of Replies irrelevant.

Fifa 95.....A game which got shat upon by PES. The Fifa games of today are far far better than those of old unlike PES which is the Opposite.

and As I said, I agree with you on the Sales don't = Quality, but quality is subjective.

Fifa 95 had no PES equivalent on my mega drive, it had sensible soccer (probably better) and pele's football game to contend with. Then I think when Fifa 96 came out for my mega drive so did international superstar soccer, what a different kind of game that was, much closer to the action, more immersive. I have had every title since, I can remember I.S.S Deluxe and I.S.S Pro - but I.S.S pro evolution really changed the game series for me - I had both titles year in year out up until I.S.S pro evo, and then I needed no more fifa titles.

I.S.S pro was a revelation for me.

 

[Ziss]

So you would be one of these players who picks top teams every match and exploits glitches and score the same goals like cut backs etc. just to get that pointless win rather than to try play football trying different things.
Each to there own I guess. I can easily sink to these muppits level and make the game easy for myself by using super human teams. I did it last year won 15 games in a row using Man Utd and got bored and started using a smaller teams.

No. I pick whatever team I feel like playing with and win.

Simples

 

[menaceuk]

Fifa 95 had no PES equivalent on my mega drive, it had sensible soccer (probably better) and pele's football game to contend with. Then I think when Fifa 96 came out for my mega drive so did international superstar soccer, what a different kind of game that was, much closer to the action, more immersive. I have had every title since, I can remember I.S.S Deluxe and I.S.S Pro - but I.S.S pro evolution really changed the game series for me - I had both titles year in year out up until I.S.S pro evo, and then I needed no more fifa titles.

I.S.S pro was a revelation for me.

Ahh.........I.S.S. Now there is a game I have not heard of in a long long time. Fantastic series.

 

[Makavelian]

No. I pick whatever team I feel like playing with and win.

Simples

You play Fifa so this is a pointless discussion I guess because they're completely different games.

 

[Rasmus]

To be fair, heated arguments are healthy, as long as personal insults and other childish tactics are not a part of it.

As for PES.... Probably, the best way to summarize my opinion, is by saying that I do think that, in many ways, PES6 on the PS2 was more sophisticated than PES13. It made more sense, it was a D-PAD game, simple as that.

PES13 is the expansion of that D-PAD system, but the more directions and gimmicks that are added to the D-PAD system, the more boring it becomes, in my opinion.

For example, with PES6 the forwards ran more intelligently, or if not more intelligent runs, then the forwards were certainly more lively with their off the ball movement. Now, with PES13, the forwards are so life-less, that it seems as though the game wants to force you into using the right analog stick off the ball gimmick all the fucking time....

How is that improvement? So now, because I can supposedly control the runs, it's supposed to be an improvement of some kind?

I would describe it as an improvement if it was intuitive and enjoyable, but directing the right analog stick + then pressing the right analog stick + directing the left analog stick for the duration of the whole procedure, is neither intuitive nor enjoyable, and unfortunately, if you don't do that, the forwards (for the most part) just stand there like idiots.

That's not actual progress, at least not as far as I'm concerned. The D-PAD was never meant to have more than eight directions. I think that the future of the football sim genre, is about accepting the fact that a lot of factors that are currently manual need to be almost entirely scripted, and the things that are currently scripted need to be entirely manual: this will be impossible for as long as the foundation of the game is based around the D-PAD and the many limitations that come with it.

The direction of off the ball movement when defending: needs to be less manual, more scripted, more like an RPG game. It's quite stupid to have manual control over off the ball movement when you can see the damn game from the perspective of a spectator.

The COM pressure button when defending: needs to be less manual, more scripted, more like an RPG game.

The R2 + short passing button defensive stance: should be automatically determined by the computer whenever the ball carrier gets close enough to any defender.

The standing tackle: needs to be as manual as possible, with direction and timing being crucial, and with the player individuality affecting the response times of different type of defenders.

At the end of the day, I think that the game needs to be simplified to a point where the computer will, for the most part, automatically determine how a midfield battle will play out, you won't need to determine the direction of the off the ball movement, in fact the direction off the ball movement will be out of your control, however, the computer will give you a 50/50 chance of winning that midfield battle.....

The controls for the standing tackle would be the R1, and the control for the sliding tackle would be the L1. The tactical controls which would be crucial in winning a midfield battle, would be the four buttons that are used for passing ans shooting the ball.

The tactical controls would work as an RPG game or as a Chess game. Press and release the short passing button, if you think Xavi will pass the ball quickly. Press and release the long pass button if you think Xavi will not pass the ball quickly, and will instead hold the ball. Press and release the shooting button, if you think that the ball carrier will attempt a pass to the striker (this particular feature would only wok once per play; if you use it on the wrong occasion, this would guarantee that the striker will not be closed down by the defender).

The more accurate that you predict the movements of your opponents, the more closed down the midfield area will be, or in other words, the harder it will be for the opponent to break you down. The style of defending, whether aggressive pressing or staying down just waiting for a counter, would not be determined manually, but by tactical settings.

See, that's not about pressing the R1 button and running after the ball carrier, it's not about running around like a headless chicken after the ball, it forces you into thinking, and it would make it more difficult for the little noobs that do not know how to read the game: even if they wanted to score cheap goals by exploiting Cristiano Ronaldo, chances are that they would probably loose the midfield battle, and that, as a consequence, Ronaldo would barely touch the ball.

Using the very simple to use tactical controls, you decide who wins the midfield battle: no R1 sprint headless chicken runs necessary, no need to hold the COM pressure button, no need to hold the R2 button + the short passing button just to trigger a particular defensive animation. Simply use the tactical controls, and when you get close enough to the ball carrier, use the L1 or R1 tackling buttons.

That to me, sounds a lot more entertaining than, for example: manually determining the direction of the off the ball movement *when* I can see the game from the perspective of a spectator (therefore making it beyond obvious where I should move and when I should press the COM pressure button and when I should press the cursor change button, thus effectively killing off the beauty of the game), constantly pressing the cursor change button time and time again, constantly pressing the COM pressure button, constantly pressing the R2 button (whilst at the same time also pressing the COM pressing button, and also being at the ready for the next time that you need to press and release the cursor change button), and at the end of the day, when you finally get close to the ball carrier, you find that you cannot actually determine the direction of the actual standing tackle, which makes for an exceptionally boring defensive game, because it's absolutely shallow.

So many different buttons that you need to press all the time, and for what? The noobs who give the ball to Cristiano Ronaldo, who do the exact same thing time and time again, can you do anything to prevent them from doing the same exact thing over and over again? Well in real life, any team with such a blatantly repetitive pattern would effectively loose the midfield battle, which means that Cristiano Ronaldo would barely touch the ball....

Unfortunately, that's not the case with PES, all the different button combos that you need to pull off in order to do extremely simple (and obvious) things, and for what? Any noob who over-uses Cristiano Ronaldo can easily defeat a person who actually understands how football works. When it comes to the most crucial factor, the one vs one confrontation between the defender and the ball carrier, all you have is an automatic standing tackle or an automatic sliding tackle, a "throw of the dice" that is far more relevant than the countless button combos that preceded the one vs one confrontation. That's bullshit. Both Konami and EA need to simplify their game.

At the end of the day, in order to have more control over the game, many aspects that are currently manual will need to be completely scripted, and the aspects that are currently completely scripted will need to be fully manual, that's what I think we will see when the PS4 comes out. But it's a shame we haven't seen anything similar to that in this gen of consoles, because the PS3 can handle that.

Longest post of the year award

 

[Ziss]

You play Fifa so this is a pointless discussion I guess because they're completely different games.

Not really. You still get people choosing teams with speed whores and sweaty box passes.

 

[Makavelian]

But the gulf between a top team and a normal team in PES 2012 is a joke.

 

[menaceuk]

But the gulf between a top team and a normal team in PES 2012 is a joke.

As is the game it's self

 

[Makavelian]

There was a chance of a good match if you and your opponent played the game properly, but if you face a random it was just an arcade mess 99% of the time.

 

[Ali]

There was a chance of a good match if you and your opponent played the game properly, but if you face a random it was just an arcade mess 99% of the time.

When I played PES 2011, I used to start a match a lobby, and check my opponents last 5 picked teams. If they were all big teams, I'd kick the fucker. Obviously though, just because I find someone who picks smaller teams, doesn't stop them from being a twat and abusing the game's flaws.

 

[Stoyaninho]

Very interesting thing - in demo 2, changing pass asstistance from 1 to 0 makes the game speed faster and with more arcady feel ( i mean not only ball speed, but player's inertia, pass animation and so on)...hmmm. But at 1 the game is the best football game since the king for me PES 6. If only in the full version they fix the bug, because its better with everything full manual.

 

[Amateur]

Fifa 95.....A game which got shat upon by PES. The Fifa games of today are far far better than those of old unlike PES which is the Opposite.

It's quite unbelievable isn't it? Who could have predicted that the producers of PES5 and PES6, would ever produce arcade-bullshit such as PES12 and PES13?

I cannot stress this enough.... PES13.... manual shooting.... Since when is it manual, to direct the shot towards the north-east, and instead of watching the shot go towards the north-east corner of the goal posts, you see the shot literally end up in the north-east corner flag?

That's not manual, not even remotely close. And the same thing goes for the so-called "manual passing", the ball travels at snail pace, and to make it worst, passing the ball with zero COM assistance is arguably just as assisted as passing the ball with full COM assistance.

PES is a fucking joke, it's sad, but that's the truth for anyone who cares to see it.

There was a chance of a good match if you and your opponent played the game properly, but if you face a random it was just an arcade mess 99% of the time.

In other words, the game is such a fucking joke, that you need to play it "properly" in order to enjoy it; yet at the same time, you pretend to ignore the fact that any noob can destroy you by simply abusing Cristiano Ronaldo?

That's your opinion of course, and fair enough, but I think the game is utterly boring irrespective of how you play it: people who abuse Cristiano Ronaldo are described as "cheats" and people who play with smaller teams are described as "purists", the funny thing about it, is that being a "purist" is not (in any way) more difficult than being a "cheat", the game always is the same COM assisted arcade joke.

 

[onebelo]

I cannot stress this enough.... PES13.... manual shooting.... Since when is it manual, to direct the shot towards the north-east, and instead of watching the shot go towards the north-east corner of the goal posts, you see the shot literally end up in the north-east corner flag?

LOL wow. i dont think its the games fault if you are awful at shooting. maybe you should try using the arrows to see what youre doing wrong and practice a bit instead of blaming the game

 

[Amateur]

LOL wow. i dont think its the games fault if you are awful at shooting. maybe you should try using the arrows to see what youre doing wrong and practice a bit instead of blaming the game

LOL at your foolish claim.

Manual shooting is not difficult, any person who dedicates a little time, will master the system. Please, stop pretending that you are good at something difficult, it's not fucking difficult.

The system is simply not good, it doesn't take enough factors into consideration: about 95% of the range of movement of the left analog stick, will see the ball going to the stands....

Why, if I am looking straight at goal (the goal posts are positioned towards the east), and I direct the left analog stick towards the north-east, the ball ends up in the north-east corner flag?

Because only about a 5% of the range of movement of the left analog stick, actually affects the "manual shot", which added to the super quick power bar and added to the super quick body positioning animation that precedes the actual shot, means that the so-called "manual shot" is indeed a fucking sad system.

If I could use, at the very least, about 50% of the range of movement of the left analog stick.... and by 50%, I mean, that if the goal posts are towards the east, range of movement between north, north-east, east, south-east, south, should all produce shots on target, as opposed to shots that end up in the far corners of the pitch. That would be manual enough to justify the "manual" selling point.

But when you can only, effectively use about 5% of the range of movement of the left analog stick, in order to determine the "manual shot" without the necessity of affecting the direction in which the ball carrier is running: that's not manual, not even remotely close, to being a manual system.

Or are you gullible enough, to believe that a passing system, where you can barely adjust the bend behind the shot, where you can barely adjust the power behind the shot, where you can barely adjust the actual body-positioning animation that precedes the actual shot, is a manual system?

Maybe, instead of saying that I should practice more: maybe, just maybe, you should understand that I might be just as good as you at the game, but that unlike you, I do not enjoy the game, because unlike you, I clearly cannot ignore the obvious flaws that ruin the experience for me. Maybe, instead of blaming a person for not knowing how to play the game (when in fact you have never seen how I play the game), you should blame the actual blame, that's what I do, and that's why I think your claim is bullshit.

And hey, I'm not saying that people who can genuinely enjoy PES13 are dumb or have bad taste, opinions are opinions after all, but please don't refute a fact (and insult me in the process) just because you can live with it.